Why is medical marijuana so expensive?

[richyrich]

Are you kidding me? I asked for personal opinions A, B, or C. You failed to make a choice which I guess could be an answer given by people polled; however a third year law student or "3L" may not fair well if a final exam asked for a choice A, B, or C and defend your selection based on your understanding of natural law and the freedoms granted every person under the US Constitution.

I failed to make a choice because I believe there are more options than your 3. I am not going to make a choice on loaded options. I was not asked to make other options, so I didn't. I have made my position clearer than day in other threads. Remember, what you typed above, "I failed to make a choice." And again, what are your continual jabs at law school and the bar have to do with anything. What is your real underlying issue with that?

Despite failing to give a poll answer you still managed to fail the economic reality test. (A) is the only answer for lowest possible price and highest possible quality (B) is a simple for those who want to justify infringing on others (C) is what you would really want, won't lead to lower prices or lower quality, IT IS the current system and therefore can not be raising or lowering quality.

(A) is impractical only because people like you insist on option C so they may wield power.

Remember, I did not make a choice in your poll, so how do you presume your statement above. I have insisted on nothing.

"For the greedy grower in it for the money, option A and B--the same status quo=same high prices.
For the person who wishes to never grow and wants lower prices, option C. "

If you assumed it from my own quote above, then you mis-interpreted what I posted. I merely posted what I see as the reality right now.

(A) is completely possible Americans have flowers of all types in their gardens and no harm comes from it. Lifting an assignine prohibition is entirely practical and has occurred in the country before.

Tell me how can a government regulated and controled environment (C) produce a larger quantity than unlimited freedom (A). And how could (A) be the option for a greedy profiteer (you should just stick with your or B thought there )

If you can defend that position in a moral, ethical, economically rational way that doesn't violate natural law I will eat my hat.

I will repeat myself. Option A is not practical, therefore, it is not a viable option for me. That is based on the climate now and the foreseeable future. You want to speak of natural laws--I'm there with you--but, those are idealistic thoughts right now.


The problem with this thread has nothing to do with price or greed for money, it has every thing to do with people greedy for power and glory so they insist on (C) so they may be a hero to the moochers (beurocratic high party official and lead looter), and the moochers too want option (C) because they feel entitled to free MJ and an (A) environment would mean no subsidy for them, they would have to pay $10 an oz like everyone else.

Problem 1 is prohibition by the types you name above. Problem 2 are the greedy that fill the void that are willing to cross the legal boundaries. There can be more sources to the problem than just one.

Thanks for looking out for the proletariat comrade.

Peace,

.

 

[zenoonez]

It isn't up to me.

Read up on charitable organizations-there's lots of rules to follow. Bogus law or not, no one forced them to open a dispensary-so if they do, should abide with the laws they agreed to.

And if those laws allowed them to make MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars a year for running a dispensary? You would cry that they are taking advantage of the medical marijuana laws. Either the laws are not worth the paper they are written on as you seem to think the federal laws are, or we should follow the laws because they are valid. Long live the black market that does and will continue to make D owners and drug runners alike rich!

 

[richyrich]

And if those laws allowed them to make MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars a year for running a dispensary? You would cry that they are taking advantage of the medical marijuana laws. Either the laws are not worth the paper they are written on as you seem to think the federal laws are, or we should follow the laws because they are valid. Long live the black market that does and will continue to make D owners and drug runners alike rich!

Though, not addressed to me, I would like to make a statement.

Obviously, natural law should reign supreme, but that is not happening anytime soon. Now with that out of the way...

IMO, if a new Senate Bill were to come out and define the parameters for the implementation of distribution of MMJ, like Prop 215 calls for, then I wouldn't bat an eye over how much people make in the distribution if it is defined and we all play by the same rules.

 

[Owl Mirror]

I think as you said you write articles on this subject and want to be part of the REGULATORS who control free men.
~
You don't have to agree with me at all, but if you think you have a right to imprison anyone over a flower, then you are not a friend to ANY ICmager.

Now stop right there !
Where did you come to this conclusion ?
This is a very dangerous and willful charge you are leveling against me.
Why is it when someone speaks out against greed, those recipients of the financial windfall presented due to Medical Marijuana always resort to a scorched earth policy with false accusations against their opponents?

Please clarify your comment above, IN PUBLIC for all to see.

 

[Hydrosun]

Though, not addressed to me, I would like to make a statement.

Obviously, natural law should reign supreme, but that is not happening anytime soon. Now with that out of the way...

IMO, if a new Senate Bill were to come out and define the parameters for the implementation of distribution of MMJ, like Prop 215 calls for, then I wouldn't bat an eye over how much people make in the distribution if it is defined and we all play by the same rules.

How is this different form of regulation possible but complete deregulation not possible? I understand that the climate is better than it has ever been so if the ultimate goal is total freedom, why participate in any system that would further enslave your neighbor, even if the terms of enslavement were better than XX years ago?

Calling you 3L was not meant to be derogatory and as I said last time I'll call you esquire in the future and I hope to feel good about doing that.

Remember people have always used the "It is not practical or feasible at this time, but in the future you'll: Get to vote. Own Property. Travel Freely. Marry or Divorce. Drink alcohol. Obtain an abortion. Grow a flower.", but one must wait and be patient.

Well fuck that line of thinking, without people standing up for their natural rights under natural law we would still be segregated and women wouldn't be able to vote. How is MJ prohibition any different than those previous violations of natural law?

Peace,

 

[richyrich]

How is this different form of regulation possible but complete deregulation not possible? I understand that the climate is better than it has ever been so if the ultimate goal is total freedom, why participate in any system that would further enslave your neighbor, even if the terms of enslavement were better than XX years ago?

Calling you 3L was not meant to be derogatory and as I said last time I'll call you esquire in the future and I hope to feel good about doing that.

Remember people have always used the "It is not practical or feasible at this time, but in the future you'll: Get to vote. Own Property. Travel Freely. Marry or Divorce. Drink alcohol. Obtain an abortion. Grow a flower.", but one must wait and be patient.

Well fuck that line of thinking, without people standing up for their natural rights under natural law we would still be segregated and women wouldn't be able to vote. How is MJ prohibition any different than those previous violations of natural law?

Peace,

Only because I think it is more feasible in the immediate future. I agree with everything you have said in above quote. I guess it is just a timing perspective that I am looking through. In due time prohibition will end IMO. I can't wait to see what happens when Cali in one way or the other votes for legalization. Won't the fuzz have their panties so far up their butts. And, they thought they didn't like the MMJ laws that they still shit on, haha...

 

[Hydrosun]

It isn't up to me.

Read up on charitable organizations-there's lots of rules to follow. Bogus law or not, no one forced them to open a dispensary-so if they do, should abide with the laws they agreed to.

WTF, that was pretty rude to ignore me. I asked you directly if you would tell me your opinion (A), (B), or (C). I personally give your opinion more weight than many others because you have the balls to grow and show the world your production.

So which is it for you if you could pick between (A) Free unregulated production (B) Total Prohibition of Production in accordance with current federal law or (C) Regulated production whereby the government would still imprison people for producing but not if they followed some set of regulations?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Peace,

PS. This poll question is meant to cover the whole spectrum 100% freedom (A) 0% freedom (B) any form of regulation (C). Unless I am out of my mind there can be no situation governing the conduct of men which falls outside of A,B,C (so it is not a set of false choices). If one picks "C" they can even explain their dream regulation scenario.

 

[kmk420kali]

I came to that conclusion very honestly. You yourself are not denying that you would imprison a person for selling weed. You complain about the price and insist on regulation. Am I wrong? You have not claimed to be for free and honest unregulated trade.

If you claim the right to regulate me, what are you going to do when I don't follow your regulations? You will seek to imprison me, steal my property, or destroy my crops. These are the conclusions I have drawn from your own writings, if I am incorrect please correct me.

You are making an assumption that I have received money from weed in excess of the cost of my equipment and operating costs and further assume that what ever profit margin I may have is a windfall. I wish you were correct but alas no windfall here, however I don't begrudge Bill Gates or anyone in this world making tons of money by producing. Looting and living off of the public dole is a crime against oneself and tears down people.

Again I charge you with wanting to regulate and control free me to the point of imprisoning them and stealing their personal property. If I a wrong and you don't wish to control my garden then you have my apologies once again.

Peace,

Bro...tho I do identify with your stance, I have to say that you are getting a li'l heavy handed in calling folks "Cop" and personally naming ppl as if they are the "Enemy"--
OM has been here for a long time, is liked..and only argues in these type Threads--
Let's move past the "Hate" for differing opinions--

Now, I will say what I believe to be the best, and how it will ultimately end up--
Legalization (With Taxation), MMJ will be only for those with true debilitating Ailments..and all Terminal Patients--
They will get, through a % of the Recreational Tax, free meds--
Personal Cultivation will be Regulated, as not to infringe on your neighbors...for instance, if you have 100 Shunk plants smellin up the neighborhood (outside)...you might have to do something about that!! lol
But 25 square feet is stupid...if we only grow once a year...outside, then that will not be enough weed for a year, for most ppl--
Anyways...that is what I would like to see-- I know I get into these debates, and sometimes sound like a Money Monger...but that is far from the truth-- I just want to see it equally fair, for the Consumer, and the Growers--
Peace--

 

[Hydrosun]

Bro...tho I do identify with your stance, I have to say that you are getting a li'l heavy handed in calling folks "Cop" and personally naming ppl as if they are the "Enemy"--
OM has been here for a long time, is liked..and only argues in these type Threads--
Let's move past the "Hate" for differing opinions--

Now, I will say what I believe to be the best, and how it will ultimately end up--
Legalization (With Taxation), MMJ will be only for those with true debilitating Ailments..and all Terminal Patients--
They will get, through a % of the Recreational Tax, free meds--
Personal Cultivation will be Regulated, as not to infringe on your neighbors...for instance, if you have 100 Shunk plants smellin up the neighborhood...you might have to do something about that!! lol
But 25 square feet is stupid...if we only grow once a year...outside, then that will not be enough weed for a year, for most ppl--
Anyways...that is what I would like to see-- I know I get into these debates, and sometimes sound like a Money Monger...but that is far from the truth-- I just want to see it equally fair, for the Consumer, and the Growers--
Peace--

I never called him a cop. I said I think he wants to regulate MJ. My personal guess is he would love to be a politician or have some hand in writing legislation to regulate others. I don't think he is employed by a police force, but my arguments are about freedoms and natural law. Any ICmager who would imprison anyone for growing, selling, or smoking weed is no friend of mine. I called out names of people who I feel want to regulate and control. Richy Rich posted after mine and has stated that he believes natural law, natural rights, and freedom is the only possible longterm outcome and solution. I take it from his response that he would not imprison a grower. OM has not yet responded with a clarification.

It would be very unwise to move past the hate when it comes to personal liberty. I can not feel love for someone who would imprison you or I for growing.

OM and I have some mutual friends on our friends list, I understand that regulation and socialism have an idealistic appeal but I believe controlling other free people is evil.

Now reading your plan is scaring me too. If I read it right you would segrigate the country into two groups one that receives FREE MJ and cash (a % of the rec tax you said), and the other group that PAYS for MJ and gives CASH to the chosen group. The good news for me is I am really smart and know a lot of doctors so I'll be able to get on the getting paid list, but too bad for everyone else that will have to pay me and give me free MJ.

Nuisance laws regulate smell like you mentioned and pig farms or skunk farms aren't liked next door to a house, it is not right to infringed on your neighbor and I agree with you that if a grow pollutes and interferes with the liberties of others the grower should abate the smell or remove the grow from a residential area. This is the same for a person who has dog shit smelling up the neighbors property. Clean up the mess no one to jail, problem solved.

The only way it can be equally fair for the grower and consumer is to get the government out of it.

Peace,

 

[kmk420kali]

Now reading your plan is scaring me too. If I read it right you would segrigate the country into two groups one that receives FREE MJ and cash (a % of the rec tax you said), and the other group that PAYS for MJ and gives CASH to the chosen group. The good news for me is I am really smart and know a lot of doctors so I'll be able to get on the getting paid list, but too bad for everyone else that will have to pay me and give me free MJ.

Naw man...chill down a bit-- I never said Meds and "Cash"...that was all you--
Why would we give them cash?? But Free Meds, for ppl who meet the financial need criteria...who are in Chemo, AIDS, or Terminal Patients...keep in mind, they will have to prove this--
Also, I should add that the % of the tax should be paid to the Growers...IN ADDITION TO WHAT THEY WANT TO DONATE, would mean that nobody has to work for free to help those in need--
But they are free to do so--

The only way it can be equally fair for the grower and consumer is to get the government out of it.

Peace,

Altho I agree with this on a basic level...it will not happen--
The only reason Legalization might happen, is because Uncle Sam wants a piece o' the
Peace--

 

[zenoonez]

Though, not addressed to me, I would like to make a statement.

Obviously, natural law should reign supreme, but that is not happening anytime soon. Now with that out of the way...

IMO, if a new Senate Bill were to come out and define the parameters for the implementation of distribution of MMJ, like Prop 215 calls for, then I wouldn't bat an eye over how much people make in the distribution if it is defined and we all play by the same rules.

Richy, I understand your stance and what you are saying well. What I am attempting to point out is that hiding behind the "compassionate use" law to argue against 60$ 1/8ths or whatever is morally fallacious in nature. There are two possible stances, either you support the law and you think that it should be as such or you don't support the law and you think it doesn't go far enough. Again, the posters in this thread have proven that there are Ds that are "compassionate" in nature and furthermore, have yet to prove how the majority of Ds not being "compassionate" in nature prevent those that do happen to be compassionate from doing their work. I am all in favor of full freedom when it comes to marijuana and I would probably fall much more on the side of the compassionate than the not compassionate. In fact I think people who have read these threads where we argue this issue would be surprised. However, what I don't stand for is forced compassion and the unreasonable specification that marijuana should be not for profit. The use of the government's violence to force morality on individuals in instances where people are not actively harmed is a horrible shame on our legal system. In short, I am all for compassion when it is true compassion. I am however, morally opposed to laws that fall short of full and complete legalization with all the same freedoms that come with growing any other consumable good. I think I just rehashed things over again to make myself more clear. If I made it more obscure, I apologize.

 

[Hydrosun]

Altho I agree with this on a basic level...it will not happen--
The only reason Legalization might happen, is because Uncle Sam wants a piece o' the
Peace--

You are most likely correct that uncle sam wants a cut of the pie, but the federal and state governments can't get a slice unless people sign up with them and pay them taxes. Once the threat of imprisonment is taken away large scale business will move in pay salaries and file income tax returns. With that Uncle Sam will get paid and the states can charge a sales tax. I guess both fed and state could require a tax stamp similar to cigarettes.

I don't know if we really need a program to help people afford MJ because once it is produced on a large scale and is not criminal the price will be almost nothing.

I heard last week that the US Government spent appx $800K per home in a recent government backed scheme to get banks to help homeowners. The average value of the homes was $200K or so. That means the US Government stole $800K from all of us and gave it to bankers in a proprted plan to help. The homeowner doesn't the a free and clear house. They still get to pay back the $200K with interest, but the bank got to steal the $800K per house.

Please, please, please don't get the US Government in the buying MJ business (unless I get the phat government contract. )

Peace,

 

[Greyskull]

The only reason Legalization might happen, is because Uncle Sam wants a piece o' the

thats the fucking truth!

 

[Greyskull]

what I don't stand for is forced compassion and the unreasonable specification that marijuana should be not for profit. The use of the government's violence to force morality on individuals in instances where people are not actively harmed is a horrible shame on our legal system. In short, I am all for compassion when it is true compassion. I am however, morally opposed to laws that fall short of full and complete legalization with all the same freedoms that come with growing any other consumable good.

nicely worded...

 

[kmk420kali]

I don't know if we really need a program to help people afford MJ because once it is produced on a large scale and is not criminal the price will be almost nothing.

I disagree with that-- It will be Legalized for the $$..do not be fooled-- It is getting the current price, I do not see it moving much off that-- It may get a li'l cheaper...but I don't think much--
If our Gov't knows anything..it is how to keep the price of a "Chosen Child" up...can we say "Oil...Gold...??"

 

[Owl Mirror]

I came to that conclusion very honestly. You yourself are not denying that you would imprison a person for selling weed. You complain about the price and insist on regulation. Am I wrong? You have not claimed to be for free and honest unregulated trade.

If you claim the right to regulate me, what are you going to do when I don't follow your regulations? You will seek to imprison me, steal my property, or destroy my crops. These are the conclusions I have drawn from your own writings, if I am incorrect please correct me.

You are making an assumption that I have received money from weed in excess of the cost of my equipment and operating costs and further assume that what ever profit margin I may have is a windfall. I wish you were correct but alas no windfall here, however I don't begrudge Bill Gates or anyone in this world making tons of money by producing. Looting and living off of the public dole is a crime against oneself and tears down people.

Again I charge you with wanting to regulate and control free me to the point of imprisoning them and stealing their personal property. If I a wrong and you don't wish to control my garden then you have my apologies once again.

Peace,

You are a fucking lunatic who makes wild false accusations.
I will never respond to another word you write, please do likewise to everything I write from this point forward.
You're attempt at discrediting my character by misrepresenting what I say is dishonest and I would warn everyone on this forum against conversing with you, let alone give you any personal information.
You are a dangerous person.

This is the last comment you will receive from me on this or any matter.

 

[Hydrosun]

You are a fucking lunatic who makes wild false accusations.
I will never respond to another word you write, please do likewise to everything I write from this point forward.
You're attempt at discrediting my character by misrepresenting what I say is dishonest and I would warn everyone on this forum against conversing with you, let alone give you any personal information.
You are a dangerous person.

This is the last comment you will receive from me on this or any matter.

You can do as you will and I am glad that I am a lunatic in your universe, because as I said you are who I warn children of in my universe.

Please feel free to give your advise as you will, but you have claimed to produce nothing, you have FAILED to deny that you would imprison your neighbor for growing or selling.

The truth sad or otherwise is that many ICmagers have met me IRL, smoked my weed and shared a beer with me. Some of the people on your friends list may even be growing my gifted genetics. I can understand that you will not respond to me, because you have failed to deny that you would imprison other ICmagers if they grew beyond your regulations.

I call you a looter, moocher, and immoral. I will always produce more than you because I am competitive and a producer. You are angry but fail to deny the ugly truths about your philosophies and beliefs.

At no point would I imprision you, take your property, remove your children, or question you about growing or selling a flower.

It appears you claim the right to judge your neighbor solely on the basis of growing or selling. I asked you to confirm or deny and you cried and moaned but refused to deny (which is almost an admission isn't it ). Funny even though I am a lunatic your immoral values speak for themselves.

Peace,

 

[OU812]

WTF, that was pretty rude to ignore me. I asked you directly if you would tell me your opinion (A), (B), or (C). I personally give your opinion more weight than many others because you have the balls to grow and show the world your production.

So which is it for you if you could pick between (A) Free unregulated production (B) Total Prohibition of Production in accordance with current federal law or (C) Regulated production whereby the government would still imprison people for producing but not if they followed some set of regulations?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Peace,

PS. This poll question is meant to cover the whole spectrum 100% freedom (A) 0% freedom (B) any form of regulation (C). Unless I am out of my mind there can be no situation governing the conduct of men which falls outside of A,B,C (so it is not a set of false choices). If one picks "C" they can even explain their dream regulation scenario.

Holy shit man,
I missed the post...NOT being rude!!

There are pages and pages of posts here and I'm just as human as anyone else...

If given those three choices, I choose A, but that's a dream, I doubt I'll see that in my own life time.

I would choose whatever allows EVERYONE the most freedom to do what they wish-for people to grow the herb. For those who need help to get what they need, and yes, the right of people to earn a living. That's the best answer I can give in all honesty.

 

[Pythagllio]

It is a fact that ICMag software for some reason will not always show a thread with new posts as having new posts for some reason, so it's perfectly reasonable that someone might miss a post. I've taken to scrolling backward when I open a thread that I'm following to see if I'm actually at the first unread post. I have been flamed for 'ignoring' posts when I'd never seen them.

 

[Pythagllio]

Please feel free to give your advise as you will, but you have claimed to produce nothing, you have FAILED to deny that you would imprison your neighbor for growing or selling.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3031034&postcount=108

Quote:
They found more than 200 pot plants, more than $400,000 in cash, guns and another controlled substance.
When the President and Attorney General said they would not waste resources in Medical Marijuana States, going after the patients, they also said that wouldn't deter them from going after those operating outside the bounds of the state medical marijuana program.
Why is anyone surprised at this bust ?

I can't see any reason someone operating within the guidelines of CO law would have on hand: more than 200 pot plants, more than $400,000 in cash, guns and another controlled substance.

These guys weren't supplying the medical marijuana community, they were trying to cash in on others suffering. It's a shame the medical marijuana community will now get a black mark against it with the public thinking all participants have $400,000 in cash, guns and other drugs too.

OK, I'm done, go ahead and flame me, call me 'the enemy' and make false claims about my character.