Water Aeration, Simple

[FlaDankster]

Scrogerman.......help me out bro.

For some reason i can't find diddly squat on the power heads.

You say this was actually started on OG?

I have one of those (powerhead) also in the shed and would love to see what my options with it are.Thanks for any direction you can put me in.

FD

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Dank!
Yeah man, from memory(which is a little shot these days), the member on Overgrow who was using them, was just trying to suppliment O2 without the need for air being pumped into the res(DWC) & without the need for airstones. The Powerhead just sits in the res solution & Spins' the water round, as long as water is moving & at the right temp's your gonna get the desired effect which is max D'O, thats what were after here, as much D'O as possible. Im sure ive seen them with built-in airpump(of sorts) too. My thinking is i can reduce the ammount of O2 im infusing into my solution via airstones & my 45db airpump, maybe by as much as 75%, add a powerhead & still have the same level of D'O. thus reducing noise to 15db's or so, it has to be quiter imo, 2 airstones & a powerhead, instead of 6 airstones & a noisey pump & still have the same level of D'O. after seeing that on OG back in the day i was impressed but never saw anyone else playing with them, ive been asking around eversince really. im gonna give it a whirl, there only cheap from what ive seen on a search, what we got to lose, only noise & a few quid.

Go for it man!

btw, the guy on OG was only using powerheads, no airstones at all & was getting results!
you'll get much better D'O with the water chruning like that imo, & add an airstone or two & voi'la. i know it works & imo would provide a better environment for roots rather than just bubbles spashing/popping, the whole solution will be spinning around, solution surface turbulance increased & more D'O2! i know it works too. it was a respected member on OG i just cant remember his name, but it may come back to me.

maybe start a powerhead thread!

 

[Scrogerman]

The other issue i have atm is im running 4 plants in my Tote(70-80ltr),& roots are nearly filling my res, even with the use of zymes. Now my little airpump cant quite cope with the volume of roots in there & O2 has stopped bubbling to the surface in parts of my res cause the roots are soo bloody thick. My thinking was throw in a powerhead to spin the bubbles around, better allround imo! Surface tension would be back to where i started before roots engulfed the res, im sure im losing loads of D'O because of this & a PowerH' would fix it!(i do wish i never sold my 70lpm compressor now)lol.

 

[B. Friendly]

if comparing airstones to waterfalls I am fully convinced that waterfalls add significantly more oxygen to your reservoir

it is both visually obvious to see the extra water bubbles on the surface for waterfalls

and when poored out it is easy to see the airy water hit your soil.

 

[Japanfreakier]

There was a guy once who had a DO meter and tested different ways, turned out just filling the bucket up increased it the most.

 

[Scrogerman]

imo it would depend, 120lpm(litres per minute) Compressor in a 60ltr Res, at the right temp. Waterfalls are too noisey, more so than an airpump, ive tried it & it made too much racket so its no contest, theres little stealth, same with high output compressor pumps. Also Micropore defusers, the expensive ones for large salt water aquriums i would'nt disscount. Id like to see this put to the test, i think some would be surprised at the outcome. For me Powerheads could be the way forward, especially in terms of stealth. I know 30ppms - 100ppms of D'O is the range were looking for. Does anyone know if there is a toxic level of D'O?

What was that compared to JapanF? cant believe that for one minute mate! sounds like his D'O meter was broken lol!

 

[Baba Ku]

You can bubble and waterfall water for a month, and you will still only have a certain percentage of DO. There is no way to visually discern the DO level of water. Bubbles are UNdisolved oxygen.

Adding H202 adds more available oxygen than you can ever bubble into the water. And when you add H202, you want to do it with the nutes. Only when there are nutrients in the water can the H202 latch onto them and release the free radical oxygen molecule as a byproduct of that latching. This free radical molecule is what feeds the plant oxygen and keeps the water aerated. It is also what will kill any anaerobic bacteria, as they cannot survive in high oxygen environments.

 

[Scrogerman]

H2O2, is just water with an extra O2 molecule, as far as i knew it just needs to be added to water for it to work, doesnt have to be nutes in there? what info do you have on this Baba Ku?(i suppose my EC0.2- is enough), but it wouldnt work with RO, is that what your saying baba? interesting, i wanna know more bro?
actually makes sense when i think about it as H2o2 increases nutrient uptake quite dramatically.

H2o2 is so underated & is such a good booster its unreal, results are very visible just a day or two after application, its great stuff, except you cant use anything organic with it, including the Good bacteria, it kills/sterilises everything in that respect, very handy at wiping the slate Clean!

DMT(member) roots clones with just h2o2 & water(no sorry i think he does add EC too), he says it blows any root stim out the water, so im gonna give it a go on the next run of cuts! says he's never had roots so good & so fast etc.! maybe he'll chime in ah!

 

[Baba Ku]

OK, I know that conventional wisdom says that H202 simply can't be used in conjunction with beneficial bacterium. But, I challenge that to a certain extent.
It is true that any anaerobic bacteria will not be able to survive in the presence of the free radical oxygen that H202 produces, but most all beneficial bacteria are of an aerobic nature, which means they thrive on oxygen.

H202 will "work" per se in a clean res of RO, but if there are other ions involved, it allows more of the molecule to be released when there are things for it to cling to. And the only real work it does is release the free radical oxygen molecule. There is nothing magic past that. Many look at H202 as if it were alcohol when it comes to being an antiseptic, but it kills bacteria by feeding it high loads of oxygen and that's it.

And yes, I believe this does indeed provide a chelating action that allows for better nutrient uptake, and possibly help keep salts from building up.

Like anything else, the dose must be correct. Although the release of a free radical oxygen molecule is all that H202 does, depending on what level this is happening it can be a very benign thing, or one of the most violent. At pure levels, H202 can be used as rocket fuel.
But with the proper dosage, it can also be used to benefit our plants and in conjunction with other beneficials.

 

[zenoonez]

How exactly do you propose that it has a chelative effect on unchelated molecules? I am just trying to understand how and or why it would have a chelative effect.

 

[jeffie]

You don't need waterfall. What u need is as much water exposed to the air as possible. Example - the shallower the reservoir the more is DO level. There's no need for noise whatsoever. Just increase the surface and circulate.

 

[Baba Ku]

It will bind with excess salts similar to how ionic solutions like Clearex will. When it does bind, that is when the oxygen is released.

 

[zenoonez]

It will bind with excess salts similar to how ionic solutions like Clearex will. When it does bind, that is when the oxygen is released.

But if it binds to form a chelate then the free radical oxygen is no longer a free radical it is bonded to the metalic ion no?

 

[Baba Ku]

No, the free radical is released when the hydrogen bonds.
Mind you I am no chemist.

 

[B. Friendly]

OK, I know that conventional wisdom says that H202 simply can't be used in conjunction with beneficial bacterium. But, I challenge that to a certain extent.
But with the proper dosage, it can also be used to benefit our plants and in conjunction with other beneficials.

put h2o2 in your tank 30minutes before nuts and beneficials and you're in the clear, h2o2 would be evaporated basically

 

[Japanfreakier]

I don't know how much h202 you would need to keep adding into a system to match the D.O. from a waterfall but I'd guess it would be a ridiculous amount.

The only tests I've seen that actually compared various methods of adding D.O. put filling a bucket up with water at top.

Adding H202 adds more available oxygen than you can ever bubble into the water.

I don't buy this for a second. Facts guys not hunches.

 

[Tilt]

still waiting for someone to try electrolysis?

 

[B. Friendly]

still waiting for someone to try electrolysis?

More info please, like a step by step setup?????

 

[Scrogerman]

OK, I know that conventional wisdom says that H202 simply can't be used in conjunction with beneficial bacterium. But, I challenge that to a certain extent.
It is true that any anaerobic bacteria will not be able to survive in the presence of the free radical oxygen that H202 produces, but most all beneficial bacteria are of an aerobic nature, which means they thrive on oxygen.

H202 will "work" per se in a clean res of RO, but if there are other ions involved, it allows more of the molecule to be released when there are things for it to cling to. And the only real work it does is release the free radical oxygen molecule. There is nothing magic past that. Many look at H202 as if it were alcohol when it comes to being an antiseptic, but it kills bacteria by feeding it high loads of oxygen and that's it.

And yes, I believe this does indeed provide a chelating action that allows for better nutrient uptake, and possibly help keep salts from building up.

Like anything else, the dose must be correct. Although the release of a free radical oxygen molecule is all that H202 does, depending on what level this is happening it can be a very benign thing, or one of the most violent. At pure levels, H202 can be used as rocket fuel.
But with the proper dosage, it can also be used to benefit our plants and in conjunction with other beneficials.

Wrong! cannot use with bene's at all, rubbish, it'll just destroy them & anything organic in solution. Go spill a little on your skin, but make sure you wash off in ten seconds, now after you see this effect, what you think it would do to bene's, even massively diluted! kill em dead im affraid.

 

[Scrogerman]

put h2o2 in your tank 30minutes before nuts and beneficials and you're in the clear, h2o2 would be evaporated basically

H2o2 will break down organic matter, destroying it completely with prolonged exposure. H2o2 takes about 24 hour to dissipate out of solution, why its advised to use every 24 hours, as not to overdose too. I use a 17.5% solution at 0.5mls per litre!

Bene's can survive in H2o2 solution, lmao, what rot!!!!!!!!! where you getting your info bro(Baba)!? been using it for years & im no1 fan.

Its the extra D'O that increases Nute uptake bro! Max D'O promotes max nute uptake. no need to look at it on a micro level, it does what it does & is a great sterilising agent, believe me!