Water Aeration, Simple

[zenoonez]

Wow that's a huge jump to say that some bacteria might be resistant to it's likely ok to use it with bens. Bad advice.

Lol. This is simple, if you want beneficial bacteria and you want to run H2O2 run the benes first, begin adding a small amount of H2O2 each day increasing it a little more until you reach the desired amount. Having said that, a well balanced nutrient solution makes benes a pretty pointless endeavor anyways. My point is that you can allow bacteria to develop resistance and if you think they can't you are mistaken.

 

[Scrogerman]

Lol. This is simple, if you want beneficial bacteria and you want to run H2O2 run the benes first, begin adding a small amount of H2O2 each day increasing it a little more until you reach the desired amount. Having said that, a well balanced nutrient solution makes benes a pretty pointless endeavor anyways. My point is that you can allow bacteria to develop resistance and if you think they can't you are mistaken.

I for One do NOT agree with you, you have nothing to back up your claims, its all hearsay man & it wouldnt work, & even if it did,its useless man.

Man you are wrong, not all bacteria would have this ability, do you even know which bacterias it would be usefull in hydroponics doing this, i doubt it very much, what would be the point. anyway H2o2 in the Rootzone as a constant 24/7 is not such a good thing & can be detrimental. Give it up mate or contribute something worth reading on the issue!

I ask WHY?

 

[Japanfreakier]

My point is that you can allow bacteria to develop resistance and if you think they can't you are mistaken.

I think you can't. Prove me wrong and do it. I won't hold my breath though.

 

[zenoonez]

Its a joke & i dont even know why we are entertaining this ludicrus bullshit, sorry man but it is. He has Nothing to back up these claim as to hydroponics & Our res cultures! h2o2 will sterilse for our needs(Totally), we are not interested in other bacteria that can be made to have a resistance, what rot & a useless concept to us!

LOL a waste of Oxygen! hehe!

Zeenoonez, you are talking to advanced hydroponicists, not some new 'growers' that doesnt know their arse from his elbows! not so load now! Thank God! Like i said earlier we are hear to teach & learn from one another, not to prove each other wrong, wheres that gonna get us? if you had a valid argument fair enough, we may have learnt something, but you didnt im affraid, But good Luck to you mate!

I have repeatedly provided scientific journals to back up my statements. Your res is not sterile unless you are doing something extreme for the very reason you stated earlier ie bacteria living in the bottom of the ocean or in volcanic vents etc. Where there is a supply of food for them to exploit and environmental conditions that allow life bacteria will exist. We can sterilize a surgery room with 10 randomly selected disinfectants and we are still unable to provide for a bacteria free environment. Now as to the benes, they could continue to live or not based on the resistances they have or can acquire and the percentage of the solutions they are exposed to but I assure you that there is bacteria living in your water.

 

[zenoonez]

I think you can't. Prove me wrong and do it. I won't hold my breath though.

So you want me to take up hydroponics, run benes which I wouldn't even if I were to take up hydroponics because they are virtually useless with a well balanced nute, use H2O2, and the culture the bacteria in the res? Not going to happen but even if it did you would probably still sit there and stick your fingers in your ears and say la la la la.

 

[zenoonez]

I for One do NOT agree with you, you have nothing to back up your claims, its all hearsay man & it wouldnt work, & even if it did,its useless man.

Man you are wrong, not all bacteria would have this ability, do you even know which bacterias it would be usefull in hydroponics doing this, i doubt it very much, what would be the point. anyway H2o2 in the Rootzone as a constant 24/7 is not such a good thing & can be detrimental. Give it up mate or contribute something worth reading on the issue!

I ask WHY?

I agree, it is useless not because it doesn't happen but because benes are useless in hydro if you are using a good nutrient solution. You are right, not all bacteria have this ability however they can acquire it via taking in plasmids in a process called transformation. Thats right, they don't have to evolve, they can intake genetic material actively to protect themselves. As to why, it is only because you were spreading false information. H2O2 does not kill all bacteria.

 

[bicyclebenny]

It's probably OT by now, but I use $7 fountain pumps from Harbor Tools in each 2g bucket. The water is constantly sucking off the bottom and pumping through the surface. In 5 g buckets i just run a hose from the fountain pump to near the surface to keep it churning. The ladies seem to approve!

 

[zenoonez]

Many bacteria are resistant to H2O2 naturally and if they aren't they can actively become resistant. As to research done specifically for hydroponics, I don't know any research journals that deal only with hydroponics Max Yield might be the people to talk to about that. And again, I never claimed that this had any impact on the effectiveness of your hydro garden, only that you were misinformed about H2O2 killing bacteria or organics in general. Hell your body can produce H2O2 as can many bacteria. Hydrogen Peroxide does not sterilize your res, it simply increases the DO in the water which kills most anaerobic bacteria which are typically the ones that destroy roots and cause root rot. The same effect could be created by maximizing the DO through various other methods.

 

[Japanfreakier]

Hydrogen peroxide is another chemical sterilizing agent. It is relatively non-toxic when diluted to low concentrations, such as the familiar 3% retail solutions although hydrogen peroxide is a dangerous oxidizer at high concentrations (> 10% w/w). Hydrogen peroxide is strong oxidant and these oxidizing properties allow it to destroy a wide range of pathogens and it is used to sterilize heat or temperature sensitive articles

 

[zenoonez]

Hydrogen peroxide is another chemical sterilizing agent. It is relatively non-toxic when diluted to low concentrations, such as the familiar 3% retail solutions although hydrogen peroxide is a dangerous oxidizer at high concentrations (> 10% w/w). Hydrogen peroxide is strong oxidant and these oxidizing properties allow it to destroy a wide range of pathogens and it is used to sterilize heat or temperature sensitive articles

Yep, not as well as alcohol, or detergents, or bases in general. Why don't we use peroxide in hospitals for general disinfection and sterilization? Because it is ineffectual due to H2O2 being a naturally occurring substance produced by many bacteria and in some cases by human tissues. Not sure if plants produce H2O2 or not...

 

[Motta-Tokka]

I have never done a actual test but from the nutrient companies that have any beneficial bacteria in it will tell you NOT to use hydrogen peroxide as it kills the beneficials. The only way to really know is by using a microscope to check on your microheard which I dont think anyone is doing in this thread.

Waterfall affect works
Air stones with enough pressure from a pump works
Venturi effect works

Tried all these

 

[Madrus Rose]

Medo ... The Lexus -air pump for pond aireation.

Like cannabis growers , Japanese take their koi fish seriously & these pumps not only are extremely long lived do to their unique single piston design will rarely give out or need servicing for over 5yrs. Ultra quiet & weather proofed for the outdoors, also one of the most energy efficient on the market . The 8 lead outlet for even the smallest model will aerate 5000 gals if needed.
http://www.underwaterwarehouse.com/Medo-Linear-Air-Pumps-Air-Pumps-And-Accessories-sc-38.html

$200 may seem a bit pricey, but for a pump to run continuously for 5 hrs or longer without fail & unparalleled output... Little Lexus of the pump world


Ps the hakko is also nice unit, serious air diffusion tools!

 

[Baba Ku]

3% H202 costs less than $1 a quart. I would suspect only those who have bought high dollar hydro store type would think it to be expensive, because hydro stores typically charge two arms and a leg for more concentrated solution.

Some of you need to study up on just what H202 is and what it isn't. I have already explained that it is not a disinfectant like alcohol or bleach, and it's only means of killing bacteria is by the release of the oxygen molecule. See, anaerobic bacteria and other organic matter gets attacked in the presence of oxygen. However, there are other sorts of bacteria that are called aerobic...these types of bacteria thrive in the presence of oxygen. Beneficial bacterium is aerobic.

 

[Baba Ku]

I'll start...

What Does Hydrogen Peroxide do?
H2O2 is an unstable molecule, when it breaks down a single oxygen atom and a molecule of water is released. This oxygen atom is extremely reactive and will attach itself to either another O- atom forming a stable Oxygen molecule or attack a nearby organic molecule. Both the stable and O- forms will increase the level of dissolved oxygen. This is the method by which H2O2 is beneficial. Pretreating the water supply with H2O2 will drive out the Chlorine many cities use to sterilize it. This will also degrade any pesticides or herbicides that might be present as well as any other organic matter. Well water can be high in methane and organic sulfates, both of which H2O2 will remove. Many disease causing organisms and spores are killed by Oxygen, the free Oxygen H2O2 releases is extremely effective at this. H2O2 will help eliminate existing infections and will help prevent future ones. It is also useful for suppressing algae growth. The free Oxygen atom will destroy dead organic material (i.e, leaves roots) in the system preventing them from rotting and spreading diseases.

-Bryce Fredrickson
http://www.quickgrow.com/gardening_articles/hydrogen_peroxide_horticulture.html

As far as how long H202 will last...it all depends on how much organic material and anaerobic bacterium is involved. If the res is clean RO water with very few ppm, then it can reportedly last 3-5 days. If the res is full of organic material, and rotted roots, the solution will be dissipated much faster...and is why we see the recommendation to use daily when correcting a problem like root rot.

 

[Baba Ku]

Because this enzymatic decomposition of H2O2 is very rapid, the oxygen supplied by H2O2 is immediately available for uptake by the aerobic organisms.

Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is a safe, convenient alternative for many dechlorination needs, especially those involving "free available chlorine" -- as opposed to "combined available chlorine."

http://www.h2o2.com/industrial/refi...spx?pid=99&name=Supplemental-Dissolved-Oxygen

 

[Baba Ku]

It contests bacterial growth (for example bio fouling in water systems) and it can enhance bacterial growth (for example bio remediation of polluted soils and ground water) through oxygen addition.

http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-hydrogen-peroxide.htm

 

[smokefrogg]

this gives me something to think about for sure, i have just begun doing some very basic aeration, simply a flexy airstone into the reservoir i dump the clean water in before dumping into various watering containers...this makes me think that it would be awesome to build an actual small indoor or outdoor waterfall, the wife wanted some kind of water flowing in the back anyways, lots to think about and lots of possibilities! thank you!

 

[Madrus Rose]

I'll start...

-Bryce Fredrickson
http://www.quickgrow.com/gardening_articles/hydrogen_peroxide_horticulture.html

As far as how long H202 will last...it all depends on how much organic material and anaerobic bacterium is involved. If the res is clean RO water with very few ppm, then it can reportedly last 3-5 days. If the res is full of organic material, and rotted roots, the solution will be dissipated much faster...and is why we see the recommendation to use daily when correcting a problem like root rot.

Just one more thing to dial in, h202...when to add how much to add, did u add too much & cause harm or too little & do little to improve the situation? And too much h202 can harm fragile root hairs if not allowed to dissipate , be advised. This thread was originally intended to discusss aeration which can be simply accomplished simply by buying a good air pump & pro quality stone(s), or as thread author suggests create a simple waterfall . This adds all the O2 ur Rez needs & off gasses all chlorine that may be dissolved ,fairly rapidly.

Now for the sterilization of the Rez from bacterium, algae or virus why not once again ( see my last post) use what the Koi fish pond pros use & the hydroponic pros also use , an ultraviolet inline water sterilizer??
http://www.garden-pond-filters.com/pond_UV_Sterilizer_review.htm

Last for hrs , only need to use every so often & get near 100% kill rate of all harmful bacterium, viruses & algae in the Rez? Keep the h202 around for sure in a spray for quick sterilizing of clone trays etc.

;-)

 

[Madrus Rose]

Edit: A small inline submersible UV unit will last u years of repeated use , will kill almost all pathogens & bacteria leave ur Rez crystal clear & algae free! Just think of the savings alone & the peace of mind? <g

Aerate ur minds! Lol...

( use the force, Luke!)

 

[Baba Ku]

There are some bacteria that thrive in the presence of oxygen. Many of these types of bacteria produce an enzyme that allows it to catalytically cleave the hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen. B. subtilis would be one of these types of aerobic bacterium found in soils and you will also find it as part of many inoculates.

Other bacteria such as C. perfringens, will be found in dead marine material, such as the things in a rotten res. This type of anaerobic bacterium cannot survive in the presence of oxygen, and it's growth is stopped immediately upon encountering it.

There should be more worry about keeping anaerobic bacteria out of our roots, than what beneficial bacteria you may harm by treating with H2O2. See, the consequences of a res full of anaerobic bacteria can be devastating to say the least. However, the upside of having beneficial bacteria in the root zone is marginal, and even questionable. As has been proven many times by those growers who use no beneficial amendments or inoculates yet have stellar results, every bit as equal to the grower who inhabits 27 types of mycorrhizae and bacteria.