Eagle 20 PM Killer, Cancerous?

[Weird]

Weird my brotha....that's hardly fair to say. I've gotten PM before and I tried numerous different strategies to eliminate it.....I changed the air flow, the humidity, I used Green-cure, milk, UV-C light, all sorts of sprays and potions and powders.....and got NO RESULTS.
1x application of Eagle eliminated something that was practically impossible to eliminate and removed a problem that I had experienced for months.
That PM almost made me totally stop growing. How'd I get the PM: simple....I was loose with accepting cuts from folks. Folks that most assuredly had the mildew.

Anyhow....all of these over the top chemical solutions are most certainly carcinogenic, probably teratogenic and absolutely can be mutagenic. There's no ifs ands or butts about it. You aren't supposed to ingest the stuff, and if you're gonna spray it on your plants, they better be in the vegative state.....furthermore....if you do use 'em....it should be a few generations of cuts and veggies grown out before attempting to flower.

That's the montage I used and it worked miracles. I literally never had to apply Eagle again after the first round. I can also pretty much quote my experience with Avid and spider mites as the same......used only in flowering......took many precautions....then took a long time to get back to flowering.

Both times I whooped the ass of whatever was ailing my plants.

Anyway, I understand implicitly why folks are equivocal about using these sorts of solutions....but I was done with the bandages and had done practically everything else prior to using these final solutions.

I'm glad I did, and would certainly consider using them once again if required. I would do so with open eyes, ears and with the foreknowledge that it's a serious thang that needs to be handled in a very professional manner.

first and foremost i love my fuckem fam

unfortunately i got the dreaded PM you got (thanks the rom ssh and bpp) the same PM i know people people who shared the same gear experienced

it was so ferocious it covered plants a cpl days and know a couple people who had to those cuts from their gardens

i however did not, i was able to abate the pm and recover with minimized losses

you used eagle20 because it was suggested you (from this community)

i'm willing to wager you did not do your due diligence in examining all your solutions in agriculture not the canna community and using your critical thinking to achieve a alternate means to your end

i am also willing to wager you addressed the pathogen but did not address the plants immune system

i am also willing to wager you did not exhaust non toxic forms of abatement

i live in a high blight zone and it devastates many gardens here

i am one the minority that doesn't get it here

i am also one of the minority that has biologically active soil

all my grows have had biological components in them even the ones i use synthetic feeds in had beneficial in em

i know how to abate and prevent this problem with a variety of solutions

you will not convince me after my experiences and tell me something i know not to be true

you don't need to use dangerous products designed for ornamental to successfully grow medical grade cannabis

and if you use them your cannabis is not medical grade

unless of course they are having it comprehensively tested but im a gambling man and once again im willing to wager no one is having their weeds comprehensible tested

eagle20 is banned altogether in my state so even if i wanted to use a fungicide outside its prescribed use alas I cannot

i wonder how the readers of treat yourself or some medical patients would review these opinions if they thought they might be at the receiving end of this proposition?

food for thought

 

[krunchbubble]

first and foremost i love my fuckem fam

unfortunately i got the dreaded PM you got (thanks the rom ssh and bpp) the same PM i know people people who shared the same gear experienced

it was so ferocious it covered plants a cpl days and know a couple people who had to those cuts from their gardens

i however did not, i was able to abate the pm and recover with minimized losses

you used eagle20 because it was suggested you (from this community)

i'm willing to wager you did not do your due diligence in examining all your solutions in agriculture not the canna community and using your critical thinking to achieve a alternate means to your end

i am also willing to wager you addressed the pathogen but did not address the plants immune system

i am also willing to wager you did not exhaust non toxic forms of abatement

i live in a high blight zone and it devastates many gardens here

i am one the minority that doesn't get it here

i am also one of the minority that has biologically active soil

all my grows have had biological components in them even the ones i use synthetic feeds in had beneficial in em

i know how to abate and prevent this problem with a variety of solutions

you will not convince me after my experiences and tell me something i know not to be true

you don't need to use dangerous products designed for ornamental to successfully grow medical grade cannabis

and if you use them your cannabis is not medical grade

unless of course they are having it comprehensively tested but im a gambling man and once again im willing to wager no one is having their weeds comprehensible tested

eagle20 is banned altogether in my state so even if i wanted to use a fungicide outside its prescribed use alas I cannot

i wonder how the readers of treat yourself or some medical patients would review these opinions if they thought they might be at the receiving end of this proposition?

food for thought

I FORGOT ABOUT THAT!

Had My Product Tested at Step Hill Lab 5 or 6 times a couple years ago, before clubs would accept it......

Passed with flying colors everytime.....

 

[Weird]

I FORGOT ABOUT THAT!

Had My Product Tested at Step Hill Lab 5 or 6 times a couple years ago, before clubs would accept it......

Passed with flying colors everytime.....

what they test for?

would love to see the particular details

 

[EclipseFour20]

My paygrade is not as high as Grapeman's, but maybe some basic "Powder Mildew 101" is in order for those that think Powder Mildew is 100%...strictly environmental. That ignores the fact that certain plants or species of a plant are more prone than others. Example....zucchini are prone to mildew--regardless of the environment.

Now...from the Masters at UC Davis, it clarifies many points that have been made (or attempted) by many above:

Powdery mildew is a common disease on many types of plants and is prevalent under the diverse conditions found in many areas of California. Different powdery mildew fungi cause disease on different plants. These fungi tend to infect either plants in the same family or only one species of plant.

IDENTIFICATION AND DAMAGE

You can recognize this disease by the white, powdery mycelial and spore growth that forms on leaf surfaces and shoots and sometimes on flowers and fruits. Powdery mildews may infect new or old foliage. This disease can be serious on woody species such as rose, crape myrtle, and sycamore where it attacks new growth including buds, shoots, flowers, and leaves. New growth may be dwarfed, distorted, and covered with a white, powdery growth. Infected leaves generally die and drop from the plant earlier than healthy leaves.

LIFE CYCLE

All powdery mildew fungi require living plant tissue to grow. On perennial hosts such as roses, powdery mildew survives from one season to the next as vegetative strands in buds or as spherical fruiting bodies, called chasmothecia, on the bark of branches and stems.

Most powdery mildew fungi grow as thin layers of mycelium on the surface of the affected plant parts. Spores, which you can see with a hand lens, are part of the white, powdery appearance of this fungi and are produced in chains on upper or lower leaf surfaces or on flowers, fruits, or herbaceous stems. In contrast, downy mildew, another fungal disease that produces visible powdery growth, has spores that grow on branched stalks and look like tiny trees. Also, downy mildew spores occur mostly on the lower leaf surface. Environmental conditions that favor the growth of downy mildew are different from those that favor powdery mildew and include low temperatures of 50° to 70°F, a relative humidity of 90% or higher, and free moisture.

Wind carries powdery mildew spores to new hosts. Although relative humidity requirements for germination vary, all powdery mildew species can germinate and infect in the absence of free water. In fact, water on plant surfaces for extended periods inhibits germination and kills the spores of most powdery mildew fungi. Moderate temperatures of 60° to 80°F and shady conditions generally are the most favorable for powdery mildew development. Powdery mildew spores and mycelium are sensitive to extreme heat and sunlight, and leaf temperatures above 95°F may kill the fungus.

MANAGEMENT

The best method of control is prevention. Avoiding the most susceptible cultivars, placing plants in full sun, and following good cultural practices will adequately control powdery mildew in many situations. Some ornamentals do require protection with fungicide sprays if mildew conditions are more favorable, especially susceptible varieties of rose and crape myrtle. (See Table 1.) For a list of other common ornamentals susceptible to powdery mildew, see Table 2.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7493.html

 

[krunchbubble]

what they test for?

would love to see the particular details

they test for everything....

http://steephilllab.com/

including pesticide residual....


so, let me guess....

somehow they are crocks of shit and you don't believe them....
they are not testing for Eagle20....
or whatever you going to come up with to make yourself think the results are skewed or unreliable.....

 

[Weird]

they test for everything....

http://steephilllab.com/

including pesticide residual....


so, let me guess....

somehow they are crocks of shit and you don't believe them....
they are not testing for Eagle20....
or whatever you going to come up with to make yourself think the results are skewed or unreliable.....

no they are on the money

i jsut called them at (510) 562-7400 and spoke to Wilson specifically

they test for four fungicides but not whats in eagle20

i read of the list of ingredients in eagle20 they test for none of them

they also do not do full spectrum pesticide testing

thanks for proving your false bravado and your ignorance in regards to the health of others

im sure you knew what they were testing for and im sure you know what you use in your garden

they test for everything is a blatant lie

 

[YosemiteSam]

First...the number one preventative is high brix levels in your plant and a sap pH of around 6.4. If you achieve a brix of say 12 and the right sap pH you do not have to worry about PM period. Fungal and/or bug attacks are natures way of removing the garbage...taking out the weak plants so natural selection can work properly.

But that is another discussion. So lets say you are in a high PM area and want to use a preventative. Obviously Eagle 20 works. Also, obviously at least to me, it has plenty of potential downside. If you don't agree do you mention to your patients that you used it?

Something that works just as well and has less downside is foliar silica. I use a powder called AgSil 16. 8 grams per gallon plus a sticker/spreader/surfactant (soap will work) sprayed every month or so will prevent PM as well as Eagle 20.

A friend of mine sprayed a tomato plant in an area thick with PM last summer...only plant in the neighborhood that did not have PM by the end of summer.

So if you are debating the safety of Eagle 20 and would like an alternative there you go.

I admit to using Eagle 20 in veg back in the day before I learned how to raise brix and control sap pH...so obviously I am in no position to knock anyone using it that way...and I don't. Just saying there are alternatives that appear to be totally safe and that you would not mind telling your patients about.

 

[krunchbubble]

no they are on the money

i jsut called them at (510) 562-7400 and spoke to Wilson specifically

they test for four fungicides but not whats in eagle20

i read of the list of ingredients in eagle20 they test for none of them

they also do not do full spectrum pesticide testing

thanks for proving your false bravado and your ignorance in regards to the health of others

im sure you knew what they were testing for and im sure you know what you use in your garden

they test for everything is a blatant lie

i sure didnt lie...

Harborside tests vendors weed to see if its clean and good to sell....

it tested pesticide free, didnt ask if they test every pesticide, figured they would....

i was saying they test for everything as far as pesticieds, mold, fungus and such....

never said they test for absolutely everything under the sun, so dont try to make yourself look good.....

 

[thisoldhouse]

I had bad PM two crops ago... tried oxidate, exel, sulfur burners, etc. nothing really helped other than for the immediate. The stuff kept coming back. So I finally got eagle 20, even though I'm in Calif, and sprayed my mothers and clones. Just brought in a room and found one leaf with PM on it. I'd say I'm pretty darn happy with Eagle! Now I have a regime with it and expect to keep PM at bay. Also, I do bleach everything and what not, so it isn't like I'm not doing other things. I'm also growing out of a basement which I'd imagine doesn't help.

Because everyone has me freaked out with using eagle 20, I wear a respirator, eye protection, chem resistant gloves that go to my elbows, etc. :/

 

[Weird]

they test for everything....

http://steephilllab.com/

including pesticide residual....


so, let me guess....

somehow they are crocks of shit and you don't believe them....
they are not testing for Eagle20....
or whatever you going to come up with to make yourself think the results are skewed or unreliable.....

i sure didnt lie...

Harborside tests vendors weed to see if its clean and good to sell....

it tested pesticide free, didnt ask if they test every pesticide, figured they would....

i was saying they test for everything as far as pesticieds, mold, fungus and such....

never said they test for absolutely everything under the sun, so dont try to make yourself look good.....

those are your words so not only do you lie but your negligent

you post 20k watt grows and tell people with total confidence your medicine is tested 100% contaminate free and you didn't bother to check to see if they even tested for the potential contaminates involved

when your ego is more important than your work this is the result

you didn't have to chase me down to try to defend a bogus stance

you know what the real issue here is: being right for you is more important than the patient

and its a shame cause you even went as far as testing it, so the only one making you look bad right now is you

no one in this world is perfect and when your act as if your shit don't stink this is what happens

i suggest you get over yourself and move on cause your really making it worse every time you post

 

[krunchbubble]

those are your words so not only do you lie but your negligent

you post 20 watt grows and tell people with total confidence your medicine is tested 100% contaminate free and you didn't bother to check to see if they even tested for the potential contaminates involved

when your ego is more important than your work this is the result

you didn't have to chase me down to try to defend a bogus stance

you want to know the real issue here, is being right for you is more important than the patient

and its a shame cause you even went as far as testing it, so the only one making you look bad right now is you

no one in this world is perfect and when your act as if your shit don't stink this is what happens

i suggest you get over yourself and move on cause your really making it worse every time you post

whatever makes yourself feel better......

ill STILL use it when needed, ill STILL have my product tested and ill STILL live very comfortable thanks to PM free growrooms.....

if you STILL have a problem about it, take it up with Harborside, they have it tested and really, i don't give a shit what you think about the subject anymore...

ill keep promoting it and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands more plants will no longer be infected by PM......

 

[MIway]

First...the number one preventative is high brix levels in your plant and a sap pH of around 6.4. If you achieve a brix of say 12 and the right sap pH you do not have to worry about PM period. Fungal and/or bug attacks are natures way of removing the garbage...taking out the weak plants so natural selection can work properly.

But that is another discussion.

this has been the most intriguing post of the thread!

pray tell brother... pray tell... ;-)

 

[YosemiteSam]

http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/2009/09/the-refractometer-an-indispensable-monitoring-tool/

This is a video that explains what brix is, how to measure it...how to increase it, etc. Worth watching.

If you go to the articles on that site and look through them you will find all sorts of good info. All of their mineral stuff is based on the work of Albrecht and Reams. Very different ratios than you see in hydro store nutes but some pretty good stuff. I think there is at least one good article on using biological controls as opposed to chemical that is worth reading also.

I have a Mob Boss in ProMix amended with Calcium Peroxide that is 7 weeks into flower with a brix of 14 still. Healthiest plant I ever grew. I will be taking a soil sample to the local university extension for a base saturation test at the end of the grow...I wanna know my Ca:Mg Base ratio.

But...the foliar silica works like a champ...it may be at least worth a test for the Eagle users

edit...ebay is the best place I know of to get a refractometer..http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...inity+refractometer&_sacat=See-All-Categories

 

[EclipseFour20]

Agree with Yousemite....all serious growers should be using a refractometer or other device to measure brix! Got some at 10-12 brix, and I thought that was cool...wow on 14! Gotta step up my game....congrats dude!

 

[accessndx]

first and foremost i love my fuckem fam

unfortunately i got the dreaded PM you got (thanks the rom ssh and bpp) the same PM i know people people who shared the same gear experienced

it was so ferocious it covered plants a cpl days and know a couple people who had to those cuts from their gardens

i however did not, i was able to abate the pm and recover with minimized losses

you used eagle20 because it was suggested you (from this community)

i'm willing to wager you did not do your due diligence in examining all your solutions in agriculture not the canna community and using your critical thinking to achieve a alternate means to your end

i am also willing to wager you addressed the pathogen but did not address the plants immune system

i am also willing to wager you did not exhaust non toxic forms of abatement

i live in a high blight zone and it devastates many gardens here

i am one the minority that doesn't get it here

i am also one of the minority that has biologically active soil

all my grows have had biological components in them even the ones i use synthetic feeds in had beneficial in em

i know how to abate and prevent this problem with a variety of solutions

you will not convince me after my experiences and tell me something i know not to be true

you don't need to use dangerous products designed for ornamental to successfully grow medical grade cannabis

and if you use them your cannabis is not medical grade

unless of course they are having it comprehensively tested but im a gambling man and once again im willing to wager no one is having their weeds comprehensible tested

eagle20 is banned altogether in my state so even if i wanted to use a fungicide outside its prescribed use alas I cannot

i wonder how the readers of treat yourself or some medical patients would review these opinions if they thought they might be at the receiving end of this proposition?

food for thought

1) Love ya back brotha!
2) I did use Eagle because it was suggested here by Krunch.
3) I can't say with certainty that I did use EVERY single non-toxic method of eliminating PM...but I will say I tried a large amount of the suggestions I found. I can say that none were effective, and if they were marginally so, they were temporary fixes at best (for me).
4) Did I try to treat the plant's immune system? Yes, I did use that "Messenger" plant immune treatment with the "Harpin" proteins.

All that being said, there's no discouragement to use non-toxic methods....as a matter of fact I tried with all my might and patience to NOT use anything toxic. When I lost a strain I had going for years after the PM issues....I decided to take more aggressive actions. That L.I.O.S. strain I have now actually had another phenotype that was equally as stoney and just as tasty in a different way.....losing it was the last straw.

I definitely don't have any biologically active soil....as I use exclusively hydroton. I do use a mycorrhizal mix in the reservoir that achieves much the same benefit however.

Anyway, no wrong or right answers here....just information for the consumption of the community. Clearly chemicals have their place along side these more conservative measures.

Even in the scope of medicine, there's reasons to use conservative treatments in lieu of more aggressive, invasive and potentially harmful measures. However, there's a place and time for all things and sometimes it's necessary to push the proverbial "red button".
In my circumstance, I felt like I hit the wall. I was ready to do almost anything.

I'll also add that I don't sell anything I grow. Everything is for my head and personal consumption, so the quality is of private concern. On the occassion I'll turn some of the F.A.M. brethren on....and of course my own circle of folks I've known for decades.......I wouldn't knowingly expose them to anything I felt was toxic from a practical or clinical perspective.
I personally feel that the exposure to Eagle's active ingredients was minimal to moderate at best. There were 3 generations of growth between the time I used Eagle in veg and the eventual flowering of my crop. Like any other medicine or chemical, there is a finite period of time that any substance will remain in vivo. I think given the long duration of time and separation in space that it was an acceptable compromise.

Additionally, I always use predatory insects to prophylactically treat and protect my plants from other insects. I have ladybugs, pirate bugs, green lacewings.....etc....in rotation at times in the garden. Those bugs were introduced prior to the applications of Eagle20, and subsequently lived for generations without any visible impact on their vitality, reproduction or lifecycles. If anything, things thrived after the introduction of Eagle.

So FWIW, if anyone is considering using Eagle.....do so with the knowledge that it's a chemical that has a significant degree of potency. That being said, it also has a definite degree of toxicity when used in certain ways. If you're committed to it's use, then do so in a responsible and reasonable way so that you minimize any adverse impact on both yourself as well as those who you provide medicine to. This type of logic works fairly well given most chemical control agents. I would also try using other mechanisms of control prior to and see if they are as efficacious before just rolling the dice on something that may not be necessary. In my case, IMHO it was.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Agree with Yousemite....all serious growers should be using a refractometer or other device to measure brix! Got some at 10-12 brix, and I thought that was cool...wow on 14! Gotta step up my game....congrats dude!

It is seriously hard to get above that in anything hydro. First the only real source (not only but most practical at least) source of Ca is CaNO3...so you got a low Ca and high nitrate problem from the get go...plus in general people are pumping up the nitrate to get more yield.

In peat you can amend with Ca sources...in fact you need to to get peats pH up.

So, for me, in coco I have not beat that 10-12 range. I beat it outdoors last yr using Tom Hill's super high Ca mix (ended with a 70:10 Ca:mg base saturation) and then with the peat mix indoors. Seriously considering switching to peat to grow healthier plants.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Yep...high calcium was the secret (oyster shells for me)--shhhh! BTW...I am custom soil mix--based on Promix.

 

[avant gardener]

anyone reading this tried bayer flint?
it's labeled for ag and treats PM and botrytis.
still looking for anyone who's used it though.

 

[megayields]

whatever makes yourself feel better......

ill STILL use it when needed, ill STILL have my product tested and ill STILL live very comfortable thanks to PM free growrooms.....

if you STILL have a problem about it, take it up with Harborside, they have it tested and really, i don't give a shit what you think about the subject anymore...

ill keep promoting it and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands more plants will no longer be infected by PM......

Mega dittos, well said, thank you Krunch..now a (Standing Ovation)

 

[odogyouknow]

whatever makes yourself feel better......

ill STILL use it when needed, ill STILL have my product tested and ill STILL live very comfortable thanks to PM free growrooms.....

if you STILL have a problem about it, take it up with Harborside, they have it tested and really, i don't give a shit what you think about the subject anymore...

ill keep promoting it and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands more plants will no longer be infected by PM......

Standing Ovation???? huh?

Someone comes in the thread and two or three times wants to see the info that supports their claim, sees the info, claims no... they test their product, then get proven it's not tested for the active ingredient in question, and gets in a tiff and says "I don't give a shit what you think about the subject anymore" and that wins?????????

All this thread did was take a look at the other side of a product.

No doubt it is effective and probably even safe when used correctly. And that is probably why you're onboard with it.

KRUCH - Honestly, do you think the "Kat" you knew that used 60ml/gal maybe just for the first time or otherwise moved finished product that didn't have high levels of residual myclobutanil???????

Or for that matter the other people in the 60+ page thread asking you how far into flower they can use it????? Just let people know before you promote it

At least say you will be PROMOTING E20 with just a little more caution


Jesus christ, a bunch of people looking up studies and data and "I don't give a shit what you think anymore" after some opposing finds gets a standing ovation....GTFO