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2012 Legalization Effort Starts

igrowone

Well-known member
Veteran
Thanks you for the reply. And for setting the example for the trolls out there regarding what civil discourse looks like.

Do you honestly think the fed/courts will allow recreational/commercial cannabis in the near future? I do not. That is why I choose to focus on the protection and expansion of MMj. This is not a valid reason for division in the community, and the anti-CA grower rhetoric that came with 19 and still exists by the butt-hurt few who actually thought it had a chance of passing, and then being upheld by the courts. Nor is the seasonal affect of cali bud on nationwide markets a reason to divide the community. Cali bud has been seasonally flooding the markets for decades. I remember the floods from back in college, messing with my hustle, but it was the way of the black market. We should all focus on MMj, that's where this starts. Horse before cart. Patients before stoners and big ag.

If I had my way 215 would be in every state. But that's not real. Neither is recreation/commercial pot a reality so long as cannabis is schedule 1.

i actually don't disagree with your main point, i.e. the courts throwing up their hands and saying 'we give up'
that probably won't happen
complete victory seem remote, but a victory is quite possible
SCOTUS could issue some weasel decision(not unheard of for them)
they give some ambiguous wording and pass it back to a lower court
this would be one way of signaling Congress to deal with it, they're tired of it
but aside from the courts, DEA is very much in play
they saw 19, and they didn't like it, and they know it may happen again
if they feel prospects are bad for them, this could push the rescheduling down to II
it is really such a pathetically small decision, for Christ's sake, we all know MJ can be useful medicine, they know it too
but rescheduling could blunt legalization efforts, it's a bone for the starving dog(in their minds)
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
Thanks man. I voted yes on 19, but have serious concerns about the details of a post-tax/regulate CA. Beyond that, I think the nation is leaning on us way too hard to "fight the good fight" for them.

I do feel like via this thread I pretty much (with some help) showed the non-CA folks that they need to stop pointing fingers and work on their respective state's MMj legislation.

I also feel I presented a valid argument for the small farms of 215.
you managed to show how some CA growers are ed's fear (pre 215) of the "i gots mine" attitude toward real (no doctors note) legalization..
 

igrowone

Well-known member
Veteran
yes, agreed. But is legalization even the objective? Or is rescheduling?

I would say legalization is a pipe dream. Rescheduling is only a matter of time and a very real possibility.

on that we probably do agree, MJ is just not going to be unregulated
the hard part is that the scheduling is in the hands of the soulless
they don't answer to the people, they do what they want, and ignore the Constitution as it suits them
 
T

THE PABLOS

yup....finger pointing, accusations, and localism (I am guilty of the latter) can only get us so far. We can all sink or we can all float...we are all in the same big boat (lifted from The Police.. Ghost in the Machine)...

I dislike government....but peeps must be governed....not sure plants need to be or if that is even ethical or moral...yet I've known nothing but regulation my whole life. It's not an excuse to hand over the keys however...maybe just a reality of our time and age.

Burning bridges you are crossing is not very wise....it is good to step back and reflect....read the language of what you might be signing on for....let's just be careful and not emotional.

I voted emotionally "YES" even at age 44....due to my distaste for the LEO and the Christian Right...in my soul...I know that was not the correct thing to do. But that is over and gone...

My biggest concern is the Home Growers.....I really don't think those opposed to "legalization" will let that one slide by...in the end. I might still be an outlaw yet. Watch what you wish for.

Going to jail for herb is wrong....been there...
 
on that we probably do agree, MJ is just not going to be unregulated
That is why the self regulation, coming from labs like Steep Hill and the "clean green" program are so great. Self-regulation strikes first! The patients are demanding the expansion of this regulation, and labs like Steep Hill work independently of gov't/big ag/big biz control. We have grower nerds testing our medicine, they care. Win-win for MMj. I expect to see much more certified organic marijuana in the dispensaries this year. In a few years organic certification will be the standard. A giant network of small organic MMj farms already exist (again with the diversity), we just have to invite the inspector to come over. Maybe I should hide the humanure ;)

the hard part is that the scheduling is in the hands of the soulless. they don't answer to the people, they do what they want, and ignore the Constitution as it suits them
true. i include the supreme court in "they".
 

CaptainTrips

Active member
I would not qualify for a CA MMJ recommendation adequate to my medical needs, due to not having a documented medical history -- that takes much $$$ and normally also continuous medical coverage. Even if Prop 19 had passed (my other legal medical treatment avenue) the 5x5 grow operation restrictions would have done me very little good considering that my best avenue for treatment is encapsulated hash oil.

Is there some sort of cognitive disconnect going on due to the emotions raised over Prop 19? A person, such as myself, who cannot afford medical coverage & co-pays is hardly likely to be in a financial position to purchase 20 - 30 pounds of cannabis per year to process into ingestible hash oil. The only alternative is to be able to grow my own, and a 5x5 plot is hardly large enough to deal with my personal medical needs.

You do not need medical history in order to get a mmj recommendation, and by "adequate" I assume you mean a rec. that lets you grow more plants... well if your "needs" are 20-30 pounds a year, you could grow that, since the sb420 are no longer defacto standards... You are supposed to be able to grow whatever your needs are...
 

JJScorpio

Thunderstruck
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Are you kidding me? I guess perception is each persons reality......

OK let me try and be nice here, lol......

I think most of the Country see's how out of control the Cali med program really is. You really don't see this? I don't know about other States, but in NY they used Cali as an excuse not to implement a program because they couldn't figure out how people would get their Cannabis and they were afraid it would end up like Cali....

Some may argue, but the Cali med program is why Cannabis may never be legalized in Cali if it's left to the people to vote. And if you think Cali med weed being used in every State on the East Coast as "establishing a legitimate (safe) medical cannabis system from the ground up", then we have a diffrence of opinion..... I honestly don't see a chance in hell of any law passing making Cannabis legal in Cali for everyone. And I can accept that because I'm a realist and I know people depend on this money. And even if it did get legalized, there's a good chance we'll have a Republican President next election so it will be a mute point until it's fought out in Court. We're not going to have a Republican Pres that says "I'm leaving it up to the State's".....

There's really no need to go down this road again. Some of us have been in this game for decades and we know what's going on......

But if you can spin that then god bless you....




I do feel like via this thread I pretty much (with some help) showed the non-CA folks that they need to stop pointing fingers and work on their respective state's MMj legislation.

I also feel I presented a valid argument for the small farms of 215.

Seems to me that CA is leading the way in terms of establishing a legitimate (safe) medical cannabis system from the ground up, without corporate interests dictating the game. We have the genetics, we have the scientists, we have breeders, we have the organic farms. Now is the age of small farmed organic medicinal cannabis in the US. The untold genetic treasures grow as usual by the breeding families, waiting to be discovered by science and made into medicine. It's an exciting time for MMj.
 

SCF

Bong Smoking News Hound
Veteran
Are you kidding me? I guess perception is each persons reality......

OK let me try and be nice here, lol......

I think most of the Country see's how out of control the Cali med program really is. You really don't see this? I don't know about other States, but in NY they used Cali as an excuse not to implement a program because they couldn't figure out how people would get their Cannabis and they were afraid it would end up like Cali....

Some may argue, but the Cali med program is why Cannabis may never be legalized in Cali if it's left to the people to vote. And if you think Cali med weed being used in every State on the East Coast as "establishing a legitimate (safe) medical cannabis system from the ground up", then we have a diffrence of opinion..... I honestly don't see a chance in hell of any law passing making Cannabis legal in Cali for everyone. And I can accept that because I'm a realist and I know people depend on this money. And even if it did get legalized, there's a good chance we'll have a Republican President next election so it will be a mute point until it's fought out in Court. We're not going to have a Republican Pres that says "I'm leaving it up to the State's".....

There's really no need to go down this road again. Some of us have been in this game for decades and we know what's going on......

But if you can spin that then god bless you....

They " our government is just using it as a reason to create more fear and divide and conquer tactics. In the law it was written so loosely, and clear on the ballet, it was for MIGRAINES or any other pain disability. and EVERYONE knows pain disabilities is very common. And a lot of people know marijuana is used for it. We the people knew what we where voting on. A very loose law that basically legalized marijuana.

This is why over 11 states passed Medical marijuana laws. because they saw how well California did it. With clubs, etc. With regulation, rules and order. People feel very comfortable with the idea of it being legalized. These polls, and voter count out, is all fraud anyways. Majority of people see it as no harm, and probably very valuable in medical aspects of it.

our government is afraid in the times of need of money. We will legalize marijuana, which in turn, screw them out of money, and in to the hands of business owners etc, vs police helicopters, and FBI tabs.
 
I think most of the Country see's how out of control the Cali med program really is. You really don't see this? I don't know about other States, but in NY they used Cali as an excuse not to implement a program because they couldn't figure out how people would get their Cannabis and they were afraid it would end up like Cali....
I do not see CA MMj legislation as bad for CA, possibly the other states as you have said. I see it as great legislation for CA. We all use cannabis as medicine, whether we admit it or not. NY that may be true, but many of the eastern states are passing legislation. NY also has it's own issues. I can understand and respect your position here, and simply ask for the same in return. Mort Zuckerman for president?
Some may argue, but the Cali med program is why Cannabis may never be legalized in Cali if it's left to the people to vote.
Well, according to data we were about 7% off of passing, hardly never. And that was without the growers' support and horrible turnout for the left.
And if you think Cali med weed being used in every State on the East Coast as "establishing a legitimate (safe) medical cannabis system from the ground up", then we have a diffrence of opinion.....
That is not what I said nor it is what I meant... at all. I was talking about the dispensaries within CA, and the products for sale to patients, legitimately, when referencing safe medicine.

I honestly don't see a chance in hell of any law passing making Cannabis legal in Cali for everyone. And I can accept that because I'm a realist and I know people depend on this money. And even if it did get legalized, there's a good chance we'll have a Republican President next election so it will be a mute point until it's fought out in Court. We're not going to have a Republican Pres that says "I'm leaving it up to the State's".....
I could not agree more. Seems like a divisive waste of energy for now. As I have pointed out, it's all about voter turnout with regards to passing legalization. That is simply a matter of waiting for the political environment to shift back to the left. Until then, we need to focus on expanding and protecting MMj. Blame game needs to stop. CA gloating needs to stop. Time to come together and set realistic and attainable goals for the advancement of MMj. That is my 2cents.
 

JJScorpio

Thunderstruck
ICMag Donor
Veteran
It would be a whole lot easier if it was just legalized, State and Federal, lol......

I do agree that Cali opened the door for other States to pass med programs, but I think you'll agree that some States, NY being one of them are fearful of becoming what is happening in Cali now........And it's making many lawmakers fearful. It's no secret lots of Medical Cannabis is being sent out of the State for commercial purposes. And that's a good thing for people who don't have any in their area. But it doesn't make for a good model for conservative States contemplating implimenting a program....

I'm not trying to offend anyone. But if we're going to have an honest discussion I'm not going to sugarcoat my feelings regarding this....
 
T

THE PABLOS

It would be a whole lot easier if it was just legalized, State and Federal, lol......

I do agree that Cali opened the door for other States to pass med programs, but I think you'll agree that some States, NY being one of them are fearful of becoming what is happening in Cali now........And it's making many lawmakers fearful. It's no secret lots of Medical Cannabis is being sent out of the State for commercial purposes. And that's a good thing for people who don't have any in their area. But it doesn't make for a good model for conservative States contemplating implimenting a program....

I'm not trying to offend anyone. But if we're going to have an honest discussion I'm not going to sugarcoat my feelings regarding this....

I for one...respect non sugarcoated feelings. In my bubble....I'm surprised how California law seems to influence other more conservative states. I'm unsure of what IS really happening here and what your lawmakers are really afraid of. It's very normal here lol....not like we are walking down the road with pounds on us all the time.....throwing buds at grandmas.

How can they tell how much excess weed is leaving Cali and ending up waaaay back east? It seems it would be difficult to tell how much actual influence/product is actually coming from here. It seems that would be an easy propaganda tool. Obviously some is leaving...peeps seem to have no shame in saying....but I really wonder how much.

Is there no Canadian weed back east? Just wondering.....seems like that would not have dried up.
 

David762

Member
Thanks for the thanks ...

Thanks for the thanks ...

Hey man. good job! thats a perfect eample of doing something to make a better law.is there a website you can access that from? maybe other CA people can check it out and throw in thier two cents.


Yea it is definitely more about people relying on it, as opposed to republican over 50 demographics and such. If all the people who grow and smoke in cali got behind it, it would have passed no problem.
i think were doing an ok job keeping it together. well expect for those two. but it hasnt gotten too crazy.

As a contributor to "YESon19.com" they sent me an email that furnished a link to this survey. AFAIK, this survey should be available on their website directly -- my link was tied to my email address, but this should put you in the general vicinity:
https://secure.yeson19.com/page/s/survey?source=emailXXXXXX
:tiphat:
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
It would be a whole lot easier if it was just legalized, State and Federal, lol......

I do agree that Cali opened the door for other States to pass med programs, but I think you'll agree that some States, NY being one of them are fearful of becoming what is happening in Cali now........And it's making many lawmakers fearful. It's no secret lots of Medical Cannabis is being sent out of the State for commercial purposes. And that's a good thing for people who don't have any in their area. But it doesn't make for a good model for conservative States contemplating implimenting a program....

I'm not trying to offend anyone. But if we're going to have an honest discussion I'm not going to sugarcoat my feelings regarding this....
most squares outside california talk about medical as "medical" (they even make the motion with their fingers) because of the "just get your medical rec.
much more credibility in actual legalization as opposed to defacto legalization under the guise of medical.
i contend cali opened the mmj door and the example they are setting is quickly slamming it shut.
fucking sign spinners outside the "pot doctor" for fucks sake?
yeah that makes mmj look legitimate...
 
T

THE PABLOS

most squares outside california talk about medical as "medical" (they even make the motion with their fingers) because of the "just get your medical rec.
much more credibility in actual legalization as opposed to defacto legalization under the guise of medical.
i contend cali opened the mmj door and the example they are setting is quickly slamming it shut.
fucking sign spinners outside the "pot doctor" for fucks sake?
yeah that makes mmj look legitimate...

Never seen sign spinners....but don't doubt it. Have no idea about doors slamming either. But hey....I'm just a country bumpkin with no interest in town. You won't convince squares anyway... I can't lose sleep over that. I do get a lot of chuckles though....sign spinners cracks me up....
 

David762

Member
Even in California, if you don't have a Prop 215 rec,

Even in California, if you don't have a Prop 215 rec,

so you dont qualify for a rec in cali?
ok
wouldnt you rather have 5X5 than 0X0?

or is there a moral reason you would deny yourself at least some medicine?

I wasn't in California to be able to vote "Yea" or "Nay" on Prop 19. But I am here now, no job, no fixed address, and burning cash like a MFer. California has turned into a real bitch, I'm sorry to say. It turns out that you cannot rent a house without a job generally speaking, and you cannot get a job (let's say not impossible, but almost) if you haven't worked for a couple of years. It's not even likely to be able to rent an apartment without already having a job.

And without a real California residence (and DL & vehicles registered here) you cannot get a Prop 215 MMJ recommendation, regardless of how liberal that process might be.

It even took 3-1/2 weeks to get my East Coast bank accounts shifted to California and available. I had to use the hotel I have been staying at as a street address, and then get a Post Office Box for continuing correspondence with that new bank.

That 5x5 is a moot point anyway, since Prop 19 didn't pass. That argument between 5x5 or 0x0 is specious, at best.

Besides, even in California, if you don't have a Prop 215 rec, then cannabis is not considered medicine -- recreational, of course; medical, not so much.

Look, I am no Spartan wistful for a warrior's death (or dying by inches and feet in my case). I guess that I could sit in my hotel room, try to score the 4 - 5 pounds of MMJ grade cannabis at a time that I would need to properly treat my ailments with encapsulated hash oil, and just "veg out". Of course, my legal exposure would be enormous. And the downside from those risks are considerably faster than my ailments. Assuming no legal issues arose, the expense would break me financially at some point. Living on the streets of Stockton (or Seattle) a somewhat healthier 50+ year old is not something I would look forward to. Residency first, and the ability to grow all the cannabis I need for my ailments is my only fiscally viable solution.
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
the california contribution to "legitimate" medical marijuana....

pot.jpg


marijuana-sign-spinner-22.jpg

i realize this is not all of cali but the images that legislators and campaigners against medical show these and say "medical marijuana is just an excuse to get high"
and
"do we want our kids exposed to these pushers"
 
T

THE PABLOS

the california contribution to "legitimate" medical marijuana....

pot.jpg


marijuana-sign-spinner-22.jpg

i realize this is not all of cali but the images that legislators and campaigners against medical show these and say "medical marijuana is just an excuse to get high"
and
"do we want our kids exposed to these pushers"

LOL....fucking so stupid....but Dag I always thought smoking weed was all about the laughs...like pot humor? Is that going away too?
 

David762

Member
Well. the other hang-up is:

Well. the other hang-up is:

You do not need medical history in order to get a mmj recommendation, and by "adequate" I assume you mean a rec. that lets you grow more plants... well if your "needs" are 20-30 pounds a year, you could grow that, since the sb420 are no longer defacto standards... You are supposed to be able to grow whatever your needs are...

Well. the other hang-up is: I am in California now, but having difficulty renting an apartment or a house. Every place I have tried to rent, I have been told that I must already have a job, or else adequate monthly cash-flow -- I have neither. I have a modestly plump bank account. Not having established CA residency rather limits my ability to obtain a Prop 215 MMJ recommendation.

Oh, and the bit about a job? Well, I am 50+ years old, have been unemployed for over 2 years, and cannot assure a prospective employer that I would be living within a reasonable distance to the job.

In the mean time, I am burning up my cash reserves like a MFer while staying in a motel. I knew my re-location to CA would not be easy, I just didn't know how tough it would be. Hell's Bells -- It took nearly 3-1/2 weeks just to get my East Coast bank accounts transferred to a CA bank with full access to those funds. I had to use the combination of the motel address and a local PO Box to convince any bank to take my funds and establish an account -- WTF is that about?
 
Do you think I should get a return for my work to create a method to make superior dry sift?
Not really, even if you are hurting financially it would be a grand act of philanthropy to the world. Your claim is unsupported as far as I have seen. I would like to see data that confirms your separations are superior. I know you have macrophotography and GC/MS data. Please prove me wrong. I am curious as much as skeptical.
Or just give it away for free like maybe you do with all of your great Cannabis ideas?
YES, we look up to you, so long as you don't let us down. You are more than a moderator here.
I did do that with water hash and was not thanked for doing it, except by a few, very few folks.
You know, sh*t happens. It is unfortunate that is how things went down. But don't you have enough recognition already? I mean seriously Sam, you have a legion of fanboys on IC. Not to mention your dominance of cannabis industry, you are already the king Sam. You want to be the emperor? I have been hearing drama about the whole ice water extraction industry for a long time. Please let it go and help us to make the best medicine possible. Thank you
 

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