this from the guy who got all his threads binned,the members laughed the "veganics professor" out of his own threads,got banned for trolling and spamms my inbox?
hilarious!!!!
hilarious!!!!
Thomkal Vwalaa
Member
I have no idea what you are talking about. I believe it is against TOU to talk about a banned member anyways. lmao
And I am un-officially calling it. New thread time. Forget legalization. Focus on MMj in your state, or region.
it is?I have no idea what you are talking about. I believe it is against TOU to talk about banned member anyways. lmao
And I am officially calling it. New thread time. Forget legalization. Focus on MMj in your state, or region.
what article?
ohhh wait you didn't read it as "professor" either
lol
but YOU are succeeding on steering off topic again..
currently we are discussing public perception as it relates to MMJ and the possible impacts of possible recreational legalization thereon.
care to join in or you gonna whine about my "big words" some more?
you have the ability to close threads?
RaNgEr RiCk
Member
Here we go again
nope im going to ignore the ad hominems rick and tom have engaged in henceforth...
i like the thread and dont think it should be closed..
dont play the bad apples game..
so....
currently we are discussing public perception as it relates to MMJ and the possible impacts of possible recreational legalization thereon.
it is my contention that if recreational passes it will lessen the abuse of the medical system thereby strengthening the perception of mj as legitimate medicine.
this would be accomplished by removing the need for"pot docs" to have $60.00 specials and street hawkers screaming "get your recommendation here"
if people only intention is to make money it will never be leagle cause people will fight for the money and the patients and rec users get left behind.
its pretty clear that when the profit margins hang in the balance,people will find a excuse for keeping it illeagle,like not having it be high enough quality(a excuse) its been in use many thousands of year grown in the wild still witthout a death or quality control.
my bottom line is this plant is a part of nature just like water, how would you feel if someone said you couldnt have water without a licence or having it medicly cleared?
id say there would be a shitload of dead people across the world,in this case we just get sent to prison so relax people its not that bad you'll 'learn next time,that the state and some geeks in a fake college know best.
its pretty clear that when the profit margins hang in the balance,people will find a excuse for keeping it illeagle,like not having it be high enough quality(a excuse) its been in use many thousands of year grown in the wild still witthout a death or quality control.
my bottom line is this plant is a part of nature just like water, how would you feel if someone said you couldnt have water without a licence or having it medicly cleared?
id say there would be a shitload of dead people across the world,in this case we just get sent to prison so relax people its not that bad you'll 'learn next time,that the state and some geeks in a fake college know best.
T
THE PABLOS
The public perception of Cannabis....that's a tough one. Should we all walk around in 3 piece suits and pretend we are not high?
I agree stoner culture is viewed by many...for what it is for a lot of peeps...red eyed, silly.....non serious...counter culture icons....easy targets for the squares and clothing marketing lines.
It is obvious that the Med community is infiltrated and caters to that image. So what should we do about it? Just because sign spinning compassion clubs support the image....should we denounce the movement...like so many of it's critics (like the ones on here)? Do we need to be on death's door to be legitimate patients? Do we need to make clubs like a regular Doctor's office to be taken serious?
It is counter culture....it's not covered by insurance....many of the Doctors that recommend MJ prescriptions are straight hustlers rotating patients in and out (just like in any health care facility)....I'm not sure what you guys want. It's a competitive open market....I don't think regulating it into the ground will help anyone but Big guys in the industry.
Stoner culture image is not going to change...nor should it have to try in fit in with mainstream America's image. Kind of the spirit of Cannabis....to be silly...to not take life so hard line...to relax and enjoy the ride. Cool breezes and chill. Like it or not...that's how it is...I'd rather miss that image if it were to be tailored to one's agenda. That's even less honest than fibbing about your ailments to get your card.
World based on lies and misinformation...why do I care about the image of my culture? To satisfy the mainstream church going types across the country is exactly what I'm not interested in...the lines were drawn a long time ago...that has not changed.
I agree stoner culture is viewed by many...for what it is for a lot of peeps...red eyed, silly.....non serious...counter culture icons....easy targets for the squares and clothing marketing lines.
It is obvious that the Med community is infiltrated and caters to that image. So what should we do about it? Just because sign spinning compassion clubs support the image....should we denounce the movement...like so many of it's critics (like the ones on here)? Do we need to be on death's door to be legitimate patients? Do we need to make clubs like a regular Doctor's office to be taken serious?
It is counter culture....it's not covered by insurance....many of the Doctors that recommend MJ prescriptions are straight hustlers rotating patients in and out (just like in any health care facility)....I'm not sure what you guys want. It's a competitive open market....I don't think regulating it into the ground will help anyone but Big guys in the industry.
Stoner culture image is not going to change...nor should it have to try in fit in with mainstream America's image. Kind of the spirit of Cannabis....to be silly...to not take life so hard line...to relax and enjoy the ride. Cool breezes and chill. Like it or not...that's how it is...I'd rather miss that image if it were to be tailored to one's agenda. That's even less honest than fibbing about your ailments to get your card.
World based on lies and misinformation...why do I care about the image of my culture? To satisfy the mainstream church going types across the country is exactly what I'm not interested in...the lines were drawn a long time ago...that has not changed.
i understand the sentiments expressed..
i agree we should not have to sacrifice our culture for the squares.
however if we are going to move forward we will have to clean up the image a bit.
the answer to me (to ending the abuse of the medical system) is recreational. if those stoners going to get recommendations could just grow small personal amounts or purchase from a retail outlet the benefit would be twofold.
I.it would remove them from the medical system.
II. it would show the country that satan would not ride in on his harley and rape all the white women if pot were legalized.
I agree wholeheartedly.
There is a frightening amount of individuals who forgot about freedom.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=179775
This thread shows that pretty well I think.
T
THE PABLOS
I agree. It is not a traditional medicine...it's non addictive...naturally derived...good spirited and safe. Why should it need to be legalized and regulated at all? Why can't it be treated like any other healing herb?
... herbs A-Z I can cultivate without threat from government...with exception to the "drug" herbs. The pharma peeps have been slamming Herbalist for well over a century. Why?
Herbs don't work like traditional meds....
T
THE PABLOS
I'm a fan of Dag. On the up and up. Props.
it is my fondest wish that it would never be regulated..
but not only is it medicine it is a commodity. as such the economic factors involved will not allow it to go unregulated(as long as government exists)
awwww shucks..
from wanting to shit down my neck to cordial in just a few months!!!
j/k
Lets look at Mickey's aspect. 
Words of Wisdom for Legalization
Posted by Mickey Martin
Since I will not be attending the conference this weekend hosted by CalNORML in Berkeley I will leave my words of wisdom for those who do attend. As anyone who reads this site knows, I was very involved in supporting Prop. 19. Not because I thought it was the greatest marijuana law in the world but because I thought it was way better than doing nothing. I still feel that way. I think California lost on November 2nd. We squandered an opportunity to advance the ball down the field and make progress for pot smokers around the world. But that is okay. That ship has sailed and we all learned some valuable lessons.
The big obvious 500 pound gorilla lesson is that there must be a willingness to compromise. There are some purists in this movement that believe either marijuana should be as legal to buy as a tomato or nothing at all. Let me just say that the “all or nothing” approach is unacceptable. Ether come to the table willing to compromise some f your rigid standards or be forgotten in the process. I am pretty rigid in my belief systems and rarely ever budge on what I believe is right. This is not a situation for the normal bullheadedness of my rhetoric, so I have been open to all suggestions, as long as they are founded in logic and based in the reason that we are increasing freedom for cannabis users. So the main point is that is I can see the need to compromise and know going in that I will not agree with everything in ANY initiative, then it is easier for me to be open to other people’s suggestions and I become less combative. SO….go into this conference OPEN TO COMPROMISE and UNDERSTANDING YOU ARE ONE OF MANY and that your opinion will not always win the day. Be ready to comment and add to the conversation but also be willing to subtract from your personal vision where need be to make room for the ideas and thoughts of others (Yes. You heard me right.)
The other thing I would suggest is to run your opposition campaign before it begins. Do some role-playing, whether in your head or in real life, but look to understand the way the initiative might be attacked and work on making the law with that in mind. Look to the Art of War for guidance as we go into this battle and how they look to destroy their enemy.
The marijuana industry is growing up and it is important for us to come to terms with the fact that the “good old days” are fading. For the most part “the good old days” of marijuana involved getting more for less, but also worrying about spending years in prison. These norms are changing as the market saturates and it takes more to make what one used to but less people are going to jail. This is only going to continue, so if your game is to continue to make $4000 a pound while your brothers and sisters go to prison then we should not even be having this conversation with you. We must realize that in order for us to make marijuana a normal and legal part of our society that we must get past expecting to keep the same old prohibition sales structure. It is not going to happen. Prices will be lower and some growers will not be able to compete. It is going to look a lot like Darwin’s Natural Selection in some respects.
Another point I would make is to respect one another. Not just their opinion, but their experience and understanding and care for this industry. I saw a lot of vitriol and disrespect of some very cherished and dedicated activists in the 19 debate and this is unacceptable. There were a lot of newbies defending their territory, which is fine, but do not disrespect our commrades and those who have dedicated their lives to this cause with your wild accusations and hyperbolic bullshit. Spare me the need to bring back the BULLSHITTER awards….
Finally I will just say it out loud so there is no mistake. SOME OF YOU ARE FUCKING FEDS TRYING TO CRUSH THIS MOVEMENT. These who are not Feds need to identify, out and dismiss these voices in the crowd. They are cancers and will be the one’s working to divide the room. If you see a person who has recently erupted on the scene and is pushing to make themselves the leader of the antagonistic journey then chances are there is your Fed or group of Feds. Fuck ‘em and feed ‘em fish eggs. This element des exist in our movement. It always has. It always will. Just be aware and do not let the descending disruptors drive the conversation we have too much at stake.
Finally, be understanding. Try to really see the point. Not just if you agree or disagree but WHY? Try not to let everything be a deal breaker.
So you kids all have a great conference. I look forward to seeing a unified front and a charge towards the finish line at the end of it all. The 2012 campaign has begun according to my friend Mikey Jolson, so in my best Wayne’s World voice…GAME ON!!!!
Words of Wisdom for Legalization
Posted by Mickey Martin
Since I will not be attending the conference this weekend hosted by CalNORML in Berkeley I will leave my words of wisdom for those who do attend. As anyone who reads this site knows, I was very involved in supporting Prop. 19. Not because I thought it was the greatest marijuana law in the world but because I thought it was way better than doing nothing. I still feel that way. I think California lost on November 2nd. We squandered an opportunity to advance the ball down the field and make progress for pot smokers around the world. But that is okay. That ship has sailed and we all learned some valuable lessons.
The big obvious 500 pound gorilla lesson is that there must be a willingness to compromise. There are some purists in this movement that believe either marijuana should be as legal to buy as a tomato or nothing at all. Let me just say that the “all or nothing” approach is unacceptable. Ether come to the table willing to compromise some f your rigid standards or be forgotten in the process. I am pretty rigid in my belief systems and rarely ever budge on what I believe is right. This is not a situation for the normal bullheadedness of my rhetoric, so I have been open to all suggestions, as long as they are founded in logic and based in the reason that we are increasing freedom for cannabis users. So the main point is that is I can see the need to compromise and know going in that I will not agree with everything in ANY initiative, then it is easier for me to be open to other people’s suggestions and I become less combative. SO….go into this conference OPEN TO COMPROMISE and UNDERSTANDING YOU ARE ONE OF MANY and that your opinion will not always win the day. Be ready to comment and add to the conversation but also be willing to subtract from your personal vision where need be to make room for the ideas and thoughts of others (Yes. You heard me right.)
The other thing I would suggest is to run your opposition campaign before it begins. Do some role-playing, whether in your head or in real life, but look to understand the way the initiative might be attacked and work on making the law with that in mind. Look to the Art of War for guidance as we go into this battle and how they look to destroy their enemy.
The marijuana industry is growing up and it is important for us to come to terms with the fact that the “good old days” are fading. For the most part “the good old days” of marijuana involved getting more for less, but also worrying about spending years in prison. These norms are changing as the market saturates and it takes more to make what one used to but less people are going to jail. This is only going to continue, so if your game is to continue to make $4000 a pound while your brothers and sisters go to prison then we should not even be having this conversation with you. We must realize that in order for us to make marijuana a normal and legal part of our society that we must get past expecting to keep the same old prohibition sales structure. It is not going to happen. Prices will be lower and some growers will not be able to compete. It is going to look a lot like Darwin’s Natural Selection in some respects.
Another point I would make is to respect one another. Not just their opinion, but their experience and understanding and care for this industry. I saw a lot of vitriol and disrespect of some very cherished and dedicated activists in the 19 debate and this is unacceptable. There were a lot of newbies defending their territory, which is fine, but do not disrespect our commrades and those who have dedicated their lives to this cause with your wild accusations and hyperbolic bullshit. Spare me the need to bring back the BULLSHITTER awards….
Finally I will just say it out loud so there is no mistake. SOME OF YOU ARE FUCKING FEDS TRYING TO CRUSH THIS MOVEMENT. These who are not Feds need to identify, out and dismiss these voices in the crowd. They are cancers and will be the one’s working to divide the room. If you see a person who has recently erupted on the scene and is pushing to make themselves the leader of the antagonistic journey then chances are there is your Fed or group of Feds. Fuck ‘em and feed ‘em fish eggs. This element des exist in our movement. It always has. It always will. Just be aware and do not let the descending disruptors drive the conversation we have too much at stake.
Finally, be understanding. Try to really see the point. Not just if you agree or disagree but WHY? Try not to let everything be a deal breaker.
So you kids all have a great conference. I look forward to seeing a unified front and a charge towards the finish line at the end of it all. The 2012 campaign has begun according to my friend Mikey Jolson, so in my best Wayne’s World voice…GAME ON!!!!
T
THE PABLOS
....yes O yes....I'd forgotten about the commodity factor. And is that not what it will come down to?
Well then...let's not give too much to receive too little. Like sales...go in double over your Par Price....so there is negotiating room and we don't come out looking like weak ass lay downs.
Perhaps many saw 19 as a lay down....or perhaps they like the outlaw culture....anyway eventually to broker a deal we'll have to step up to the plate....with some kind of unity. I'm just not sure this stoner culture is geared correctly....these threads are so evident of that.
We need a face....one that is not balls deep in their own agendas. That would solve many of the "greed/corporate take over" issues. We need a professional politician....just kidding.
EDIT:
Geezus vta......your timing is spot on....nice post
G
growingcrazy
If I were to actually purchase my smoke from someone, and I found out that they voted no, I wouldn't make another purchase.
If everyone did that, we wouldn't have the greedy growers going against legalization bills.
Any step in legalization is a step in the right direction.
Love the plant and not the income.
If everyone did that, we wouldn't have the greedy growers going against legalization bills.
Any step in legalization is a step in the right direction.
Love the plant and not the income.
I do think we need to be careful. It is very possible to paint ourselves into a corner. Your point was one of the reasons I voted for 19. Everyone bitches about all the restrictions 19 had when in reality there were minuet. If 19 had passed, there was a bill ready that would of expanded our rights right off the bat.
One problem is the mixing of MMJ with MJ. People confuse the two. Also 19 wasn't about us growers. It was about all the other people who smoke it. We have 215 and its nice. Were covered. But what about everyone else? 19 would of allowed anyone to grow a small personal amount. If you need more than what 25' can give you...then just get a rec already. We as Californians had an opportunity to do something special, something that has not been done in our lifetimes. But oh well. We might get another shot and it might be less...it might be more but I highly doubt it. I don't think the message of 19's failure is to come up with an all out free for all....or even to expand some of the rights. It might be seen as too much...in that case we might of shot ourselves in the foot.
Maybe it comes down to money. This debate hits hard at IC. A site where you have those that have a deep love for the plant and want it to be free for the world to use and you have those that want to make money off it at the expense of ones freedom by keeping the black market alive. Apples and oranges. When somebody says, "We need to protect the value of pot" I digress. Have I made money off pot??....you betcha! but I have also been arrested for it. Not cool!
Whats the answer? Pablos nailed it. Cannabis is a natural occurring herb and logically should be treated as such. But it gets you high...and it is popular. Because of those two reasons...there will be some sort of gov control. They key is to get to a point where that control is minimal.
So where do we go from here?
since the thread has quieted down a bit, i was curious about this post a ways back by Big H
he mentions the new proposition that is being worked on, and some snapshots of what's being considered
one thing was getting rid of the personal grow provision
that would be a dark development, to say the least
but curious what some of the IC lawyers might think about that
i would think it wouldn't be possible, if you legalize MJ possession(for personal use), how can you criminalize its production(for personal use)
at that point, it wouldn't be legalization, but more of a state rescheduling(?)
he mentions the new proposition that is being worked on, and some snapshots of what's being considered
one thing was getting rid of the personal grow provision
that would be a dark development, to say the least
but curious what some of the IC lawyers might think about that
i would think it wouldn't be possible, if you legalize MJ possession(for personal use), how can you criminalize its production(for personal use)
at that point, it wouldn't be legalization, but more of a state rescheduling(?)
