Quality but no Quantity due to environment or strain?

[ITryToGrow]

How many hours has the bulb been turned on for in it's lifetime?

hmm... I'd say about 1100 hours.

I think you tried to cover a little too much space. Your ventilation system sounds good. Reason I asked that question is that too much wind blowing on the plants can slow them down.

That I didn't know. However the wind/airflow that these fans produce is not really any stronger than what I could blow my self... So they produce more of a breeze, if that makes any sense.

In my experience and based on a growing, but still limited knowledge base, a 4' x 4' area with a 600w bulb at 20" from the middle of the canopy (and more from the sides) is going to be detrimental to efficiency and yield.

But how would that explain my fairly good yields when growing seed? Same setup, same distance and so on...

 

[ITryToGrow]

How large is your grow space? Key factor

Umm, maybe I misunderstand your question but in my first post it says I use a tent 4'x4'x6.5' (Secret Jardin DR120).

 

[cyberwax]

Umm, maybe I misunderstand your question but in my first post it says I use a tent 4'x4'x6.5' (Secret Jardin DR120).

Indeed, sorry for missing that

 

[ITryToGrow]

That looks $$$$$ and not necessary.

Unnecessary even if I can get it for free?

However it helps to have one of these:

I'll sit the "outside" wire on top of leaves to get the closest area temperature.

Yepp, have a couple. That's how I know my temps.

When the top one, the one hanging "above" the reflector says 82F

The one I put in the shade at floor level says 75F

 

[ITryToGrow]

Keep it up, ITry. You're bound to get better with every grow. If there's anything more frustrating than having trouble dialing in a certain aspect, it's getting things perfect and not knowing what you did different to get the results you're looking for, lol.

Yeah, the thing that feels a little pathetic is that I've BEEN getting good yields when doing seeds.

And all I've done is improve (at least that's what I thought/think) my setups and their environment.

But this cloning business... I don't know, maybe just bad luck with my strains and/or mothers.

I wanna get my football sized colas back dammit! I miss them soo...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Try making F2s and ditch the clones.

 

[ITryToGrow]

Try making F2s and ditch the clones.

Sorry for my ignorance, but F2's ?

 

[LJB]

That I didn't know.

If you're curious about this topic, no direct research that I've found as of yet on cannabis sativa l., but in the last 100 years many studies have been conducted on the effects caused by different wind speeds on plants and trees.

Search for a combination of terms such as "wind stomata transpiration photosynthesis".

i.e.: Does wind speed affect the opening of stomata?

Wind speed does not normally cause stomata to open. Indeed, high wind speed may cause stomata to close a) because of the high rate of transpiration leading to water stress but also b) (when photosynthesis rate is high) gentle breeze can bring more CO2 close to the stomata, increasing the diffusion of CO2 into the leaf, causing guard cells to become less turgid.

This is why we don't see fans blowing directly on the plants in big greenhouses. It's almost all done with passive ventilation.

But how would that explain my fairly good yields when growing seed? Same setup, same distance and so on...

That would lead me to think it has something to do with the genetics or strain. Perhaps that strain is one that needed the bulb to be closer in order to more yield. This is not an area I know much about. Will you try again with it?

 

[LJB]

Unnecessary even if I can get it for free?

Yepp, have a couple. That's how I know my temps.

distance-to-spot ratio: D/S = 8/1

I don't know anything about that technology.

Can you aim it directly at a leaf surface and get a temp that differs from the area around the leaf but slightly farther away? a half, an inch, etc.?

 

[ITryToGrow]

gentle breeze can bring more CO2 close to the stomata

That was the exact reason why I added the fan on the floor!

A fan that wasn't, might I add, present when I grew from seed.

This is why we don't see fans blowing directly on the plants in big greenhouses. It's almost all done with passive ventilation.

Perhaps I should face the fan downward instead or atleast away from the plants. Today it's blowing directly at them.

That would lead me to think it has something to do with the genetics or strain.

Ok, that's what I'm hoping. Cause then it's not me that's doing something wrong.

I'm going to do a seed run in a month or two, I will share the grow online - at least on a week to week basis. Hopefully then we'll find out if there's anything wrong with the setup and/or the environment.

 

[ITryToGrow]

distance-to-spot ratio: D/S = 8/1

I don't know anything about that technology.

Can you aim it directly at a leaf surface and get a temp that differs from the area around the leaf but slightly farther away? a half, an inch, etc.?

Could you explain that to me, not sure what you're asking...

 

[SouthernSmoker]

just a few questions

just a few questions

How many grows have you done in the nft system ?

what were the water temps of res?

you said you were new to cloning how established were the roots of the clones you flowered?

you said two to three weeks of veg how tall were the plants you flowered?

when you cut them how did the roots look ?

Is your light air cooled ?

what rate are you exhausting the cab ? How many cfm's?

 

[ITryToGrow]

How many grows have you done in the nft system ?

what were the water temps of res?

you said you were new to cloning how established were the roots of the clones you flowered?

you said two to three weeks of veg how tall were the plants you flowered?

when you cut them how did the roots look ?

Is your light air cooled ?

what rate are you exhausting the cab ? How many cfm's?

From top to bottom:

1. About 20 I would say.

2. About 68-72F (20-22C).

3. They were proper little root-balls. White and nice. I use rockwool (Grodan).

4. If you mean how tall they were when I turned them to 12/12, I would say about 8-12" (20-30cm).

5. They look white/beige/yellow-ish. The whole table is nothing but roots, about an inch thick. The roots always grow in to the rez. I had to modify the table since the roots kept clogging the holes and made the table overfill.

6. No.

7. Wow... difficult question really... I have one 10" fan with a max cfm of 618 cfm. I have three identical setups connected to it. It is in it's turn connected to a controller with 5 steps. Where 1 is the slowest and 5 is max. When on 2 the humidity get's to high, temps are good tho (the numbers i posted earlier). So when they grow I set it on 3.

All setups are measured with a aerometer I think it's called.

At setting 2 the airflow is 6.5 feet/s, and it's a 4" system.

Hope that helps!

 

[whodair]

seed plants typically have a better yield. the clone plant prob requires more vegg time. were the clones taken from a flowering plant?

 

[ITryToGrow]

seed plants typically have a better yield. the clone plant prob requires more vegg time. were the clones taken from a flowering plant?

I see... I thought that with the clones being more mature (carrying with them the maturity of their mother) they would yield better under the same circumstances.

The clones were taken from a mother in veg.

But I have also done (unsuccessful) grows where the clones were taken from a flowering plant and reverted.

Not good?

 

[ITryToGrow]

A picture's worth...

A picture's worth...

Here's a pic on how the setups look like.

You see the scrubber in the back.

The reflector.

The fan (to the right) blowing over the canopy/under the reflector and the fan blowing from the floor.

Since the picture was taken, I've done some trimming.

These are Big Bud clones taken from a flowering plant and reverted.

By accident they've been vegged about 5-6 weeks. They're now in flowering.

This is week 7 (from when they were introduced into the setup. NOT week 7 in flowering.

 

[cyberwax]

First thought when seeing picture is that your cabinet is way too crowded, you need to remove that lower growth that gets no light before the third week has passed. Also your light seems a tad low to reach out to the peripheral growth.

But thats just my initial thoughts

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Itry, you mentioned water pH fluctuation earlier. You'll need pH up if you start with 5pH water. A calcium supplement will keep you from having to use so much pH up.

 

[ITryToGrow]

First thought when seeing picture is that your cabinet is way too crowded, you need to remove that lower growth that gets no light before the third week has passed.

Yepp, that's the trimming I mentioned. I trimmed away everything under the net. But perhaps it was too late, only time will tell now.

I'll post a new pic or two tomorrow.

Also your light seems a tad low to reach out to the peripheral growth.

Hmm, you might be right. But if you look at the reflections, especially to the left on the picture by the side "window", it looks like it covers everything.

 

[ITryToGrow]

Itry, you mentioned water pH fluctuation earlier. You'll need pH up if you start with 5pH water. A calcium supplement will keep you from having to use so much pH up.

Oh yeah, I handle the pH fluctuations. I keep the pH at around 5.8 as per the recommendations from the nute manufacturer.

They actually have a supplement in their line called Calgreen which I use.