2012 Legalization Effort Starts

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

youve just become a walking contradiction at this point..

I asked you to change your tone, I shouldn't have expect much from an ex-con with obvious scape goat issues. I don't even know what you are talking about so I'll just say...

I came from a medical state, I did not qualify because I'm not dying. So eff that. I'm out. I don't participate in politics generally, other than my vote. I spent 10 years underground like the folks here crying about CA not passing recreational/commercial. But the falsehood and assumptions here had to be balanced with a little facts and reality.

You are the first and only person I have ever put on ignore. Congrats. Peace to you, I will not be reading another post of yours.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

all i have to say is legalization will not pass in 2012. mark my word

you are completely out of line with everything else. but this is true. they (2012 folks, there are two groups) are way behind, have little money, and the state is over it.

 

[dagnabit]

I asked you to change your tone, I shouldn't have expect much from an ex-con with obvious scape goat issues. I don't even know what you are talking about so I'll just say...

I came from a medical state, I did not qualify because I'm not dying. So eff that. I'm out. I don't participate in politics generally, other than my vote. I spent 10 years underground like the folks here crying about CA not passing recreational/commercial. But the falsehood and assumptions here had to be balanced with a little facts and reality.

You are the first and only person I have ever put on ignore. Congrats. Peace to you, I will not be reading another post of yours.

the whole time ive asked for an example of mt "flaming" and trollery towards you..
now i get the fake iggy cuz im a big meanie...
lmfao

 

[JJScorpio]

My attitude is that of sorrow for all the people that need Cannabis for medicine, that don't have the oppurtunity of doing it legally... If anything my attitude would be against those that don't use it medicinally, but instead hide behind it for protection to grow and sell commercially.... I know of a few on this site that don't smoke yet have certificates...

If I'm not mistaken isn't their a couple med states in jeapordy of losing their med programs? And where you would assume I don't see people as needing cannabis for medicine is beyond me....

I think some people have a very hard time seperating medical and commercial....

And I'm not going to keep editing nasty comments. I'll just close it. It's up to you people....

I would say your attitude overlooks every legitimate medical cannabis patient in the world. I suppose we can agree to disagree again. Cannabis is medicine, flowers and concentrates included. You will never convince me otherwise, there are many patents to back that up.

 

[THE PABLOS]

Nah...keep it rolling....so informative, healthy, and vote (for those who do or...can) changing. Kind of addictive.

 

[Rednick]

Assemblyman Tom Ammiano is expected to introduce another legalization bill this year and parallel efforts are underway to develop ballot language for a 2012 initiative.
.

I have to break my silence.
It (the initiative) will get stonewalled again, but for all those who ask what would you want. This is it. The only piece of legislation that I have agreed with since AM20 (Colo) is AB 390 (Cali).

Level the playing field, keep the economic barriers to entry low. Put the power back into the hands of the people.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

If I'm not mistaken isn't their a couple med states in jeapordy of losing their med programs?

Please do tell, I claim ignorance on my end.

And where you would assume I don't see people as needing cannabis for medicine is beyond me....

Sorry, that was not fair. These assumptions, well you know the saying.

I think some people have a very hard time seperating medical and commercial....

That is understandable considering how things have played out here in CA. And the other MMj states directly reflect this. But that can be changed with simple public education. The US gov has a patent on cannabinoids, in addition we have sativex, marinol, ect ect. The nation can only pretend herb doesn't help cancer patients for so long, it's been proven.

Can we agree that American's will accept MMj state by state, over time, regardless of what CA does with recreational/commercial? Not all states of course, but many, lets just say half. The coasts and some of the more liberal states.

Can we also agree that the American community's first goal is MMj protection and expansion? And that recreational/commercial cannabis logically comes after rescheduling of cannabis federally?

And I'm not going to keep editing nasty comments. I'll just close it. It's up to you people....

Do what you must, you run things here. I have tried my best to keep this civil. Respect to everyone. We all have our opinions. It's sharing them without insulting each other that is the trick.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I am not trying to blame any one grower, but lets be honest here.
If growers in California would vote against a legalization bill because they don't want lower prices to take money out of their pockets.
Then am I to believe that none of them would use dangerous insecticides or fungicides to protect their investment? Regardless of the possible effects on patients?
I am not agreeing with Lee, but I do understand how he feels. When the Ministry of Health here in the Netherlands tested Cannabis in the coffee shops they found most were contaminated with dangerous poisons, not some, most. If you think it is any different in California, you are fooling yourself, testing in California confirmed the situation there was the same.
I am not saying all growers, but for patients this is not good.
How can this be fixed? Analysis of all Cannabis products prior to distribution, and/or centralized, inspected, cultivation for patients.
If we can't fix our own problems someone will force us to fix them. We did create the problem....
I know Cannabis is a safe medicine, when grown and processed safely but with so many growers livelihoods dependent on their crops the temptation to do almost anything to protect the income is pretty hard to deny. The only question is how many?
-SamS

I had dinner with Lee recently. He quietly admitted this to me during our civil disagreement over 19, this was after 19 failed. He also told me that any legislation he puts forth will also be aimed to remove the home grower from the market. He thinks we are dangerous. We "could be spraying DDT or who knows what" according to him.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

What happened to level headed stoner discussion?

What happened to level headed stoner discussion?



Apparently both sides are saying to leave it open and both are asking to close it.

I agree with PABLOS.

Addictive... maybe not so much.

I don't have withdrawl symptoms... though I only dabbled in this one

It is sadly true that discussion becomes mired in many sidetracked committees... however I find it better to see who said what when.

Apparently any legalization thread is for strong stomachs only.

I, for one, am sad that the 19 thread got locked... but seeing as it was and is... perhaps this one will find that same fate.

 

[dagnabit]

Apparently both sides are saying to leave it open and both are asking to close it.

I agree with PABLOS.

Addictive... maybe not so much.

I don't have withdrawl symptoms... though I only dabbled in this one

It is sadly true that discussion becomes mired in many sidetracked committees... however I find it better to see who said what when.

Apparently any legalization thread is for strong stomachs only.

I, for one, am sad that the 19 thread got locked... but seeing as it was and is... perhaps this one will find that same fate.

i hope it stays open...
compared to the 19 thread this is a sleepover.
i sincerely believe ive been much more cordial...

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

I am not trying to blame any one grower, but lets be honest here.
If growers in California would vote against a legalization bill because they don't want lower prices to take money out of their pockets.
Then am I to believe that none of them would use dangerous insecticides or fungicides to protect their investment? Regardless of the possible effects on patients?
I am not agreeing with Lee, but I do understand how he feels. When the Ministry of Health here in the Netherlands tested Cannabis in the coffee shops they found most were contaminated with dangerous poisons, not some, most. If you think it is any different in California, you are fooling yourself, testing in California confirmed the situation there was the same.

Well, according to Steep Hill Lab, they test for dangerous insecticides and fungicides. But I agree, we don't always know what's in our medicine, especially from the smaller shops who can't afford lab screening. Then I will cite the "CLEAN GREEN" certifications for home growers. We are working on it Mr. Skunkman, Rome was not built overnight. Many of the dispensaries carry lab certified medicine. In fact, that is becoming a requirement from patients who are used to numbers from Harborside.

I am not saying all growers, but for patients this is not good.
How can this be fixed? Analysis of all Cannabis products prior to distribution, and/or centralized, inspected, cultivation for patients.

As I said, that is being developed. Patience is a virtue in all things. And over my dead body on the underlined part. Soon we will all be growing 50:50 THC:CBD strains for the patients in small certified organic gardens. Our small breeders have been sitting on THC:CBD varieties and the lab is discovering them one by one.

If we can't fix our own problems someone will force us to fix them. We did create the problem....
I know Cannabis is a safe medicine, when grown and processed safely but with so many growers livelihoods dependent on their crops the temptation to do almost anything to protect the income is pretty hard to deny. The only question is how many?
-SamS

Many, they send their herb out of state mostly. The dispensaries are getting up to date in regards to product screening and lab analysis. So it seems the home grower can not only have their garden certified organic (it's been done in CA, yes, certified organic outdoor marijuana), BUT they can have their product screened by a lab before anyone even thinks about smoking it.

@Sam: you must be thrilled to see GC/MS testing of cannabinoids taking off here and CO, no? Are they not the one true line of defense from chems and toxins? GC can't lie or be greedy... although lab techs can. lol They only have one injection port, so yours is still bigger, technically

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I am well aware of the good efforts to self regulate the industry, from "Clean Green" to other efforts including analysis, but it is to little to late, the focus on safe Cannabis should of been settled by now, 15 years after the passage of 215. It is not.
At least in my opinion....
BTW when I eat raw Cannabis I get the burps, does this happen to anyone else?
-SamS

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

I am well aware of the good efforts to self regulate the industry, from "Clean Green" to other efforts including analysis, but it is to little to late, the focus on safe Cannabis should of been settled by now, 15 years after the passage of 215. It is not.
At least in my opinion....
BTW when I eat raw Cannabis I get the burps, does this happen to anyone else?
-SamS

YES. I get the burps too. Probably due to the partially undigested raw cannabis plant matter.... not sure. Or are you talking about raw juice? Raw juice doesn't give me burps as bad.

How do you feel about drinking the "tea" that results from making ice water separated concentrate? aka Thomkal's vitality elixir. Lots of good terpenes in there.

Sam! It's never too late. I agree 15 years is too long, but there are so few canna-nerds out there. We all had to migrate here (or stop hustling, lol @ the truth) to form these regulation entities. We seem to be right on the edge of having
CERTIFIED ORGANIC CANNABIS FLOWERS AND CONCENTRATES IN ALL DISPENSARIES, not just the one I know of. I buy certified organic flowers, tinctures, massage oils, and salves from the dispensary.

 

[Xiggi StarrdusT]

if everyone grows their own or bought from a local source there wouldn't be any big biz's taking over. quite frankly i hope it becomes legal even at the cost of the price of pot going down. The lives of people is more important. Throwing non violent drug offenders in jail is a waste of tax paying money and not to mention destructive to any one you knows life. Every year thousands of peoples lives are ruined by the senseless drug war created by those "pimpjuice" who are to greedy and ego driven to see the real facts and have any sort of compassion towards another human being. All who are not for legalization i hope you get thrown in jail or get charged with child endangerment for having pot around and get your kid taken from you. Because that is what happens to good innocent people everyday because pot is illegal. And you greedy bastards are all for it just to keep making as much money as you do. Yeah the prices would go down, but everyone can still do what they are doing an get by easier than the people who are working the 9-5. Also , if it were tax and regulated it could generate millions of dollars for each state. Just like when prohibition of alcohol was over and it was taxed and regulated and brought our nation out of a depression. BOO YAA

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

unless something really good comes up....

Nothing yet?
The take over of lab testing for MMj in CA...? This means CA's MMj future can gain credibility without big biz/ag. We are on the verge without them! We can keep them out and all get certified organic. Yay small farms! Yay lab testing! Yay safe homegrown medicinal cannabis of all kinds! I'm ready for the organic inspection. Big ag can't do what we do in terms of quality, diversity, and jobs. Eff efficiency. Jobs based on organic gardening for everyone! Thousands of small breeders in all regions have increased genetic diversity at an accelerated rate, the "CA new-school landraces" lol These will dominate the world moon

How about a logical strategy for realistic positive movement regarding cannabis legislation? I say more MMj states, then federal re-scheduling. then recreational/commercial state by state.

Do you think CA needs to push recreation/commercial legislation? I do not
And if it passes do you think this will help other states push medical? I do not.

Do you think CA passing recreational/commercial will hold up in court? The administration and lawyers expressed legal concerns, to put it nicely.

Do you think CA passing recreational/commercial legislation, that is then struck down in court, will affect other states ability to pass MMj? I do.

I won't even ask about other states passing recreational/commercial. Ain't gunna happen anytime soon.

@Sam: I don't use anything crazy. vegan & OMRI if it's from a bottle. I wear medical gloves and hairnets when I trim. I thought you might appreciate these growing trends among MMj farmers.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

All who are not for legalization i hope you get thrown in jail or get charged with child endangerment for having pot around and get your kid taken from you.

wow. 5 posts and spewing hate already. great start. PM me bro Someone needs a talking down (ala colbert report if you didn't get it).

There never was a legalization proposition. Cannabis will never be "legal", but it will be taxed, regulated and controlled. A good thing imo, but something to do very carefully as it sets precedent (the argument against 19 in a nut shell, from growers).

post edit: thom, prop215, MMM are actual cali MMj growers and have similar views regarding the details of legislation because we are not intent on sacrificing the entire MMj industry to big biz/ag. Those who are so intent on blaming CA for other state's problems are themselves affected financially by what is going on in (and then out of) CA with MMj.

 

[MadBuddhaAbuser]

So anyways, speaking of moving the med along in other states. found some stuff about the new NJ law, worth checking out. A public comment period will being on or about February 22, DO NOT COMMENT BEFORE THAT, they dont count it. worth a look, if your into that kind stuff
http://www.state.nj.us/health/documents/medical_marijuana_proposal.pdfThis is the bill they are using now, not an OFFICIAL copy, that will be out in the NJ register on or about FEB 22.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/01/senate_moves_towards_dissolvin.html The senate working to remove christies harsh amendments.
http://cmmnj.blogspot.com/ and the Coalition for Med Mar.NJ's blog.

peace.

"Sick of threads with people bitching back and forth? THEN LEGALIZE IT!" to paraphrase

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

How big does organic ag biz have to be to not be able to in "terms of quality, diversity, and jobs?" Earthbound organic Farm's is 28,000 acres, is that big?

Efficiency is not important, according to you? I disagree.

And if you think thousands of small "breeders" have the ability to breed Cannabis that can be grown outdoors, be insect pest resistant, mold resistant, as well as truly elite in terms of quality and yield and uniqueness, you have a lot more faith then I do.
Why do fruit and vegetables, as well as all other agricultural crops use PhD trained plant breeders to create their new varieties?
Don't you think that real breeders should have some idea and experience how breeding works with other crops, as well as an education that allows them to know and use the best methods to reach their goals with Cannabis? I do.
-SamS

Yay small farms! Yay lab testing! Yay safe homegrown medicinal cannabis of all kinds! I'm ready for the organic inspection. Big ag can't do what we do in terms of quality, diversity, and jobs. Eff efficiency. Jobs based on organic gardening for everyone! Thousands of small breeders in all regions have increased genetic diversity at an accelerated rate, the "CA new-school landraces" lol These will dominate the world moon

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

How big does organic ag biz have to be to not be able to in "terms of quality, diversity, and jobs?" Earthbound Farm's is 28,000 acres, is that big?

Great question. Let me check them out. Organic farming on a large scale is possible, and has benefits. I still prefer small organic farms (and everything else) as an anti-corporate american. I have not been in a commercial grocery store (with organic produce from giant farms) or chain restaurant in years. I'm a former farm-to-plate "organic" chef, I have my own ideas regarding food. Another thread perhaps.

Efficiency is not important, according to you? I disagree.

Anything proceeded by "eff" is a half joke, americanism or something like that. Efficiency is important, to be balanced with organics and job creation. If you had not noticed, that part was supposed to be funny. Who actually says "yay" three times... lol

And if you think thousands of small "breeders" have the ability to breed Cannabis that can be grown outdoors, be insect pest resistant, mold resistant, as well as truly elite in terms of quality and yield and uniqueness, you have a lot more faith then I do.

That is the goal of every single breeder. Greenhouses+ rule the land around here. Thank you for so clearly spelling out our objectives. These thousands of breeders are all loosely connected and share genetics. We have varieties that are 10%THC and 10%CBD already, from blind (in terms of GC/MS) breeding.

Why do fruit and vegetables, as well as all other agricultural crops use PhD trained plant breeders to create their new varieties?

All the organic farms I know grow old varieties. In fact, heritage genetics are prized up and down at my market. I am not convinced we need new varieties to make medicine. We are just learning what we have, and high CBD varieties are showing up all over. Also other varieties with odd cannabinoid profiles are being discovered and documented.

Don't you think that real breeders should have some idea and experience how breeding works with other crops, as well as an education that allows them to know and use the best methods to reach their goals with Cannabis? I do.
-SamS

I know you do. Please respect my ability to respectfully suggest that you do not need a pHD to breed medicinal cannabis varieties. That is what we do. The landraces are amazing in their diversity. So are the local races. We have been breeding outdoors for the properties you have listed all along. What? You think we stopped when ya left?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Were the high CBD varieties bred for or just found with GC analysis? Do you think any of your breeders have the ability to create varieties that are only one single Cannabinoid? Or to elucidate on the inheritance of the Cannabinoids without higher learning in the field of breeding? I suspect it would help.
Breeding is like lab work, sure you can fool around uneducated, but to really do the job well, like breeding, you really need an education. You need to fully understand genetics and plant breeding, and a bit more....
Anyone in California working on Cannabis varieties that are virus resistant? Why not?
I would not call people that make simple hybrids a plant breeder, they are having fun, maybe finding good selections but a plant breeder?
I guess then most smokers are Cannabis experts?
-SamS

That is the goal of every single breeder. Greenhouses+ rule the land around here. Thank you for so clearly spelling out our objectives. These thousands of breeders are all loosely connected and share genetics. We have varieties that are 10%THC and 10%CBD already, from blind (in terms of GC/MS) breeding.

I know you do. Please respect my ability to respectfully suggest that you do not need a pHD to breed medicinal cannabis varieties. That is what we do. The landraces are amazing in their diversity. So are the local races. We have been breeding outdoors for the properties you have listed all along. What? You think we stopped when ya left?