Legalizing pot IS taxing pot SAY NO TO SALES TAX

[!!!]

At this point I don't mind if it's taxed 1000% the markup price. Here in NYC we have people paying as high as $800/oz, and we also have people paying $8-10 for a bottle of beer that costs $8/12 pack in the supermarket across the street.

Cannabis needs to be legalized, not because it's natural (Tobacco and alcohol are very natural), but because it being illegal doesn't make sense. No drug should be illegal. From a logical, ethical point of view, prohibition doesn't make much sense.

Who cares if legal pot is taxed too high? Those who give a shit will find a way to get it cheaper (grow your own, buy from a friend who grows, steal it from a store, etc), and those who are already paying so much will continue to do so. There's no way in hell legal weed will reach $800/oz, not even in NYC, but even if it does, would you prefer it remained illegal instead?

 

[cork144]

legalization = lower prices = more consumers = more consumption = lucriative profits

i thought that when the dutch did it, they found out that consumption went down in the dutch population

yea it shouldnt be taxed, taxes are you paying for your goverments debt, that theyre putting you in!

 

[!!!]

it also seems in the big scheme of things that making pot legal cause it can be taxed doesn't mean the same thing as it being legalized because it just shouldn't be illegal

Ideally it should be legal because it shouldn't be illegal, but in real life somebody, somewhere, has to benefit tremendously before these things can take place.

Many had to benefit from making pot illegal, and to make it legal now means more people would need to benefit from its legality. This means bribes, legitimate companies losing money and looking for a different source of revenue, government earning tax on the product, etc.

The average joe doesn't care much about weed, they'll never vote pro-weed unless they had a reason too. It's just not an issue that is a priority to them. It's "just a plant." Stick a gun to their head, bribe them to, etc and they'll read up and make a decision on whether it should be legal or not, but as it stands, we need companies to realize that they can make A LOT of money off this, and then for them to hire lobbyists and push for legalization. And of course the big corps would do their best to keep fed/state tax low.

Big corps need to see the potential and then give the movement momentum.

 

[Amstel Light]

Originally Posted by BiG H3rB Tr3E
exactly fellas. we are already illegal as it is>>> cant get much worse than it already is.....

Sure it can.
!

it can get worse??? what they gonna cane us next... castration wtf!

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

it can get worse??? what they gonna cane us next... castration wtf!

 

[JJScorpio]

if you think that legalization will give us more control over the industry, you're living on another planet.

.

I may be missing something, but do we have control over gas, alcohol, cigs, food, clothing and on and on.

What would make you think we would have control OVER MARIJUANA.

Let me guess, you make money as either a dispensory or a caregiver? It seems those are the only two people willing to continue having people do time. People spending years in jail for growing and smoking this plant is the real control.....

 

[nomaad]

I grow 3 scripts. I am 100% for legalization. If the price of ganja were to drop by more than 50%, I would probably stop growing. I will find a way to make a nice living in whatever economy I find myself. I've scanned back thru the thread and looked at the content of my posts and see that i clearly advise people to diversify from growing and dispensing. I have also said in plain english that I support full legalization 100%. To clarify, I believe that it should be legal like a tomato is legal. Blanket legalization and blanket amnesty for anybody with a non-violent record. I realize that the amnesty thing would be extremely tricky... but that's a whole other thread. (edit: i didn;t think the 1st sentences thru 100%. legalization would mean that i could grow more plants, so at a 50% drop in price, i could probably still make a very nice living for a while.)

I don't see why stating an opinion about losing control with legalization would lead you to the conclusion that I am "willing to continue having people do time." Please see the list of fallacious arguments that is floating around somewhere.

JJSCorpio: You're the last person I would expect to make such baseless assumptions (especially from my comments in this thread.) you're basically calling me a total piece of shit... because who else would choose higher profits at the cost of their good friends going to prison? Far as I am concerned its as bad as being called a rat.

I'll choose not to be offended.

 

[HossCartwright]

Yuck, that sounds like warehouse work. At that point you might as well be manufacturing shoes, clothing or twinkies. The love for growing top grade Cannabis goes out the window and it just becomes another job. Sounds like a nightmare. Sucks that we can't just decriminalize it instead of legalizing/taxing.

You will go far in business with that attitude! LOL

Welcome to real life!

BUSINESS men are who/what are destroying it for everybody in CA and eventually CO. Business=greed. I have no desire to go anywhere in business and the world would be a better place if there were a lot more people who learned to live more simply and less by the rules of "successful" business men.

 

[HossCartwright]

Decriminalization is THE worst idea out there in my opinion. Making it illegal to grow or sell yet legal to possess? Come on now, it just makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah, that's not what I want at all. I would like to be able to grow, sell and posses, yet not get taxed and keep the prices/value higher than if it were outright legal and phillip morris started bastardizing the industry with $5 packs of joints.

Sounds like legalization/taxation would keep it illegal for small time growers and only benefit the large companies with $$$. Kind of similar to what happened in Holland from what I hear.

 

[JJScorpio]

I grow 3 scripts. I am 100% for legalization. If the price of ganja were to drop by more than 50%, I would probably stop growing. I will find a way to make a nice living in whatever economy I find myself. I've scanned back thru the thread and looked at the content of my posts and see that i clearly advise people to diversify from growing and dispensing. I have also said in plain english that I support full legalization 100%. To clarify, I believe that it should be legal like a tomato is legal. Blanket legalization and blanket amnesty for anybody with a non-violent record. I realize that the amnesty thing would be extremely tricky... but that's a whole other thread. (edit: i didn;t think the 1st sentences thru 100%. legalization would mean that i could grow more plants, so at a 50% drop in price, i could probably still make a very nice living for a while.)

I don't see why stating an opinion about losing control with legalization would lead you to the conclusion that I am "willing to continue having people do time." Please see the list of fallacious arguments that is floating around somewhere.

JJSCorpio: You're the last person I would expect to make such baseless assumptions (especially from my comments in this thread.) you're basically calling me a total piece of shit... because who else would choose higher profits at the cost of their good friends going to prison? Far as I am concerned its as bad as being called a rat.

I'll choose not to be offended.

You better go back and read your posts. You say you're for legalization, but all of your posts try and show why people shouldn't vote for legalization because only big biz will make money. You also add you'd have to find another way to make a living. It just seems your posts show more concern regarding who's going to make the money than who's not going to have to worry about being arrested anymore

If I'm reading your posts wrong, my apologies, but I'm more concerned with the ones in jail and the ones that will go to jail if legalization doesn't happen. I don't agree with your philosophy that a small grower wont be able to make money but if it takes big biz to stop the incarcerations then so be it I'll still grow my own.... But if by chance big biz does get involved in the growing there will be such a load grown that the price will eventually be right there with cigarrettes in a few years.

 

[nomaad]

I think its inevitable that big business will take over this industry. If they are going to legalize it, I believe it will be with an eye on total control like the alcohol business. I don't think people shouldn't vote for legalization. I've simply stated what I believe is the business reality. Larger business interests will make it more difficult for the small producer, though I realize that niches will always exist.

Can you sequence the DNA of the strains you're growing? Monsanto is set up for this and he who decodes the genome owns the patent. People who grow their patented genetics get financially ruined... happens all the time.

Would i rather live in a world where Monsanto owns all the dank genetics but nobody goes to jail for growing a plant? Sure. Is there a downside? Yes. Acknowledging more than one perspective in a discussion should be considered a virtue, not demonized.

You say my posts "try and show why people shouldn't vote for legalization" but that's you reading into them. What's wrong with advising diversification to people who ARE complaining about their loss in profits... I guess i could just be one of those people who shares your beliefs (shocker, i do!) who just moans about all the capitalist douchebags who would rather see their homies go to jail so they can make money... OR I can continue doing what I have been doing and speaking to them on a level they can understand. I offer my thoughts on what can be done to negate the negative effects of legalization on the marketplace. Diversify or DIE. welcome to capitalism 101.

Even if most growers are selfish douchebags (like most dentists and most bus drivers), its the profits from growing and selling in the current market that will pay the cost of the legalization movement. That's a moral paradox... just like everything... i.e. driving a car- people are dying in Nigeria so Shell can keep stealing the oil. However, if I drive my car to feed people at a homeless shelter, you would not consider me morally reprehensible...

Anyhow... I digress. If more people in the industry would be thinking about how they are going to compete (carve out one of them niches everybody is so fond of talking about) in a marketplace that includes tobacco or alcohol or agribiz or gentech style corps, there would be more potential allies to the cause of legalization with the kind of skrill that would really make things happen. So advising the capitalists, from the perspective of another capitalist (hehehe), to embrace change seems to me a way more viable course of action then just telling everybody who doesn't share your opinion (or even who is trying to work the same goals as you from a different angle) that they are morally reprehensible...

When you acknowledge the paradox of morality for a guy who feeds his family with the proceeds of his ganja crop feeling he needs to vote against legalization to protect his family, you may actually be able to persuade him to change his mind. My argument seeks to do just that by advising diversification and announcing my own readiness to adapt.

You have been reading my posts wrong (but understand that I'm not really talking to you... we already agree and) and I accept your apology (and the reservations that followed.)

 

[kmk420kali]

I may be missing something, but do we have control over gas, alcohol, cigs, food, clothing and on and on.

No...we don't--

What would make you think we would have control OVER MARIJUANA.

It seems, if you go back up and read the quote that you posted...that he said, "if you think that legalization will give us more control over the industry, you're living on another planet.

I think you guys are saying the same thing...but I may be missing something--

 

[nomaad]

yeah. i think we are too.

 

[Jellyfish]

I may be missing something, but do we have control over gas, alcohol, cigs, food, clothing and on and on.

In general, we don't have control over these things. However, in most if not all states, there is a provision for making wine and beer for personal use. Presumably, this beer and wine is not taxed.

Many think this should be the model for marijuana.

Thank you.

 

[imnotcrazy]

Nomad brought up an EXCELLENT point.... If Monsanto or similar companies get involved it could ruin people. There would need to be some form of protections in place for any agri-business or personal grower.

It's known that farmers are ruined when Monsanto's Terminator gene technology fails and they find that you have a crop of "their" plants. Especially if you haven't purchased their seed. Wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out Monsanto seed was sold not by weight but by how many seeds the shipment contained. And they could come and make sure you don't have more than they supplied you. They have a patent on it and could sue the balls off of you.

Also, how's the mom and pop type shops going to compete with Monsanto Genetically engineered medi-pot........ It's just not plausible to think that even the best breeders out there right now could compete when they have laboratories and everything else to map the genome at their disposal. This would inherently bring big agri-business into the game, do you have $60K for this year's seed? You KNOW those fuckers are going to get involved if legalization does go down

 

[ureapwhatusow]

its status as taxable should only be assessed after its status as an entity is defined

is it a medicine .. legalize without sales tax

is it a food ... legalize wihtout sales tax

is it a recreational commodity like booze ... tax it cause they tax booze !?!?!?

is it a fuel ... tax it like fuel !?!?!

everybody goes off on tangents

but my argument was put in this forum because of a let sget it legalized at all costs sentiment

JJ said something to the effect that to counter the unjust prison that our brothers are facing we shoudl act now (no faulting this desire)

and i think many ppl share that sentiment and i agree in spirit

and what no one is thinking about is our chance to shape law is now

legalization will not necessarily get people out of prison but rushing it will lower hte envelope or time we are exposed for, a small one in comparison, for a big trade off in rights

we are getting legalization IT WILL HAPPEN

lets not make to great a compromise because their oppression has worn on us

lets continue the fight to make sure that when its legalized all our rights are preserved

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

'gettting it right'? i would rather pass legalization, then work on the taxes later.

its like a cargo ship coming from china. it takes a long fucking time to get here, and then 20 miles from the coast it gets a little hole in the side.

do you patch it? or send it back to china's ports....?

 

[ureapwhatusow]

thats my point were in port getting ready to dock either way were not turning back you so why compromise now its not going to change the eventuality

 

[Grizvok]

thats my point were in port getting ready to dock either way were not turning back you so why compromise now its not going to change the eventuality

Do you totally fail to understand the political process?

 

[ureapwhatusow]

Do you totally fail to understand the political process?

yes, I also exercise my vote


do you understand that prescription, medicines and non prepared food items are not taxes on the state level

shame 99% of the people crying for legalization don't understand how current sales use taxes work and how grossly inappropriate that pot is classified differnetly than other items of the same ilk

but please either spell out my failure to understand because it a real failure you cite or stfu cause your doing nothing but stirring the pot without a valid argument and that type of docuhebaggery is getting real old

but please qualify your political genius and tell all of us how its impossible to pass laws unless the government makes tax revenue

i guess when women get abortions they pay fetal removal tax

just like they pay ever time they vote cause had to pay a tax to earn that right

and how about slavery tax im sure based on your fucking logic that lincoln couldnt have abolished slavery without a FUCKING TAX