Removing the "B" from BHO

[jump117]

... i think you missed my point, that looks are deceiving. that oil i showed was unsmokeable garbage. ...

Yes I missed your point, I agree that looks are deceiving, it's a common sense principle.
Honestly I've never seen unsmokeable garbage that looks like oil you showed.
Until now I was sure of two main visual signs of best extract quality - amber dense at room temperature that means high melting point, and colour varying between virgin oil light yellow and dry pistils' red without green component.
Was it a Myth I should bust?

 

[gunnaknow]

BHO i make is usually hard or shattery, never runny.

Firstly, it is strain dependent as some strains produce more and different terpenes than others. Secondly, it has alot to do with how long and hot the purge was, aswel as how fresh the oil is, as these factors have an affect on the terpene content. Also, I said "often" and "more" runny, not always and runny.

as for fragrance for the smells sake alone, no thats not my point. terpenes modify the extracts stone substantially, so retaining a maximum amount of those preserves the particular characteristics of the strain its derived from, and is quite essential in my view.

If that's your thing. Personally, I don't think that it makes that much difference. If it made that much difference to the high then we should combine getting high with aromatherapy and inhale and apply various essential oils. Anyhow, we're getting a little off course now so we should agree to diagree on this point and move on.

small torch heat applied does not do much to the terpenes. using an alcohol to extract initially seems to produce a much more tasteless extract. almost tastes damaged to me.but it is possible that an ethanol wash of a butane extract may not harm it, but it seems a waste of time to me. what is achieved?

As has been stated more than once, the redissolving of BHO into alcohol is for removing certain impurities. This thread was about thoroughly removing butane from BHO, which naturally led to the point that butane can be a mixture of various hydrocarbons, some of which being much harder to remove than the N-butane. This naturally led to the discussion of possible solutions, for those interested in such endeavours. It was never about which methods should be used but about which methods could be used, if one desired.

 

[gunnaknow]

Yes I missed your point, I agree that looks are deceiving, it's a common sense principle.
Honestly I've never seen unsmokeable garbage that looks like oil you showed.
Until now I was sure of two main visual signs of best extract quality - amber dense at room temperature that means high melting point, and colour varying between virgin oil light yellow and dry pistils' red without green component.
Was it a Myth I should bust?

Jump, he said that it was garbage because the bud had been contaminated with sulphur, not because the extraction itself was flawed.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

Firstly, it is strain dependent as some strains produce more and different terpenes than others. Secondly, it has alot to do with how long and hot the purge was, aswel as how fresh the oil is, as these factors have an affect on the terpene content. Also, I said "often" and "more" runny, not always and runny.



If that's your thing. Personally, I don't think that it makes that much difference. If it made that much difference to the high then we should combine getting high with aromatherapy and inhale and apply various essential oils. Anyhow, we're getting a little off course now so we should agree to diagree on this point and move on.



As has been stated more than once, the redissolving of BHO into alcohol is for removing certain impurities. This thread was about thoroughly removing butane from BHO, which naturally led to the point that butane can be a mixture of various hydrocarbons, some of which being much harder to remove than the N-butane. This naturally led to the discussion of possible solutions, for those interested in such endeavours. It was never about which methods should be used but about which methods could be used, if one desired.

often is wrong. usually not runny. of course its strain and method dependant, but i have run dozens of strains if not hundreds. most strains usually yield rock hard oil using butane. its the really lemony smelling strains that dont get as hard in their extract.

as for terpene content, its kind of a proven fact that its a crucial component. Sam Skunkman did some pretty exhaustive testing on the subject, proving what many already believed through firsthand experience.

i said it was useless to resolvate the butane extract because when one starts with butane at impurities of <50ppm, and then you evaporate 99.99% of that away, you are left with such an infinitesmal amount of impurities, they are pretty much ignorable, dontcha think?

 

[gunnaknow]

often is wrong. usually not runny.

Again, I did not say runny, I said "more runny", compared to rock hard. I am getting tired of having to repeat myself to you, please read what I say more carefully.

of course its strain and method dependant, but i have run dozens of strains if not hundreds. most strains usually yield rock hard oil using butane.

As I have already said, methods of purging and storage also affect the state of the oil. Not simply because the butane is removed with heat and/or time but because the terpenes are aswel. The condition of the trichs also plays a part. Becoming more solid as they turn cloudy or amber. Drying and curing also causes the trichs and leaves to lose alot of their terpene content. This is why extracting from fresh plant material is best, if your interest is in obtaining maximum aroma. There are a multitude of reasons why your oil could be turning out so solid.

as for terpene content, its kind of a proven fact that its a crucial component. Sam Skunkman did some pretty exhaustive testing on the subject, proving what many already believed through firsthand experience.

We all know that essential oils used in aromatherapy have physiological and even cognitive effects. That doesn't mean that these effects are part of the high, only that they are additional effects to the high. You could argue that everything modulates the high in that case. Going on a rollercoaster ride whilst high can make you feel elated but this is an additional effect, not part of the high itself. Having a bath when high is very relaxing but again this is an additional effect to the high and not part of the high itself. The same could be said for the terpenes in cannabis or from other essential oils. All that can be said is that they can change the experience whilst high, just as they can change the experience when sober. Limonene will make you feel more alert and energetic, regardless of whether you are high or sober. They even put lemon essential oil in the air conditioning systems of some office buildings because it has been proven to increase the productivity of the work force. If you want to have such experiences when high then you can just add a drop of your preferred essential oil to a vaporiser and inhale.

i said it was useless to resolvate the butane extract because when one starts with butane at impurities of <50ppm,

Have you actually read what I have written? Or were you too stoned to absorb what was being said? This is the last time that I'm going to repeat this for you. The Near Zero Impurities bench mark only sets a limit of 50ppm for non volatile impurities. There are volatile impurities that could be present in larger amounts. Until we actually see a certificate of analysis, or someone performs their own independant test, we will never know exactly what is in each brand's butane.

and then you evaporate 99.99% of that away, you are left with such an infinitesmal amount of impurities, they are pretty much ignorable, dontcha think?

Again, as I said before, the boiling points of these non volatile impurities, aswel as some volatile impurities, are too high for them to be removed by evaporation, with out putting the cannabinoids at risk.

This conversation is going nowhere, it's clear that neither of us is going to agree and that you haven't comprehended what I had already said before. It's almost as bad as the discussion I had with Foaf, perhaps you two are friends. lol You go your way and I'll go mine.

gunna

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

obviously we have some differences. i will only address the one, and leave you alone.

BHO IS USUALLY ROCK HARD, AND NEVER RUNNY.

 

[gunnaknow]

"Yours" is usually rock hard. I think we're done here. Thank god!

 

[jump117]

BHO is usually more sticky vs ethanol quick-amber made from the same material.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

"Yours" is usually rock hard. I think we're done here. Thank god!

ya, if you do a shitty job and Fu CK it up, it may not be rock hard. but those who know how, and there are many many of them, get it right virtually every time.

 

[Moldy Dreads]

BHO IS USUALLY ROCK HARD, AND NEVER RUNNY

Only if you purge correctly..many people I know make runny crap, including people on this site..

 

[jump117]

...
as for terpene content, its kind of a proven fact that its a crucial component. Sam Skunkman did some pretty exhaustive testing on the subject, proving what many already believed through firsthand experience.
...

How did he prove this?
Is there any objective but not a subjective proof?
Will you repeat it plz or give a link.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

i dont have time to find the thread, but it was posted on this site, a lot of information on the subject. search sams posts maybe, i dunno.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

Only if you purge correctly..many people I know make runny crap, including people on this site..

they should find and read my tutorial maybe. its in a couple magazines right now, as well as some websites.

 

[seventhchild]

The vacuum will lower the boiling point of the B and help remove it.
This will remove just about all residual butane.

Any questions?
SD

great info,,,,have often thought about using a vacuum/pressure at different stages but am not sure about many aspects??? have you done a before/after wight comparison to gage % of impurities removed ? how many PSI does the food saver pull? the other machines? is the main advantage of the re frig gas recover thingy the recovery of the butane?what are the advantages over release into the air? any studies on how many PSI's to apply while the weed is soaking in the butane ? would you Please take a look at my dyi extractor and offer suggestions for improvement? http://www.*********.com/forums/f11/large-scale-butane-extraction-11907/my yield is 60% first run 30% 2nd run. Thank you for your time and info.......

 

[REZDOG]

ya, if you do a shitty job and Fu CK it up, it may not be rock hard. but those who know how, and there are many many of them, get it right virtually every time.

Hi All.
I'm down with the (mother)fucking flu today,thought I'd chime in,fer' shits n' giggles...I'm sure some of you will be thrilled,others,not so much so.
Here's my opinion,and pay in mind,I've only been making BHO for a decade,and I introduced BHO to Amsterdam,about eight years ago,through Soma.
....But what do I know,right?

1) BHO should be SOLID,and damn sure NOT runny. Ever.

2) HMKut's "crystal shard" BHO is an absolute benchmark in BHO,as is his exhaustive documentation and research.
To be clear: It's The Way BHO Should Be Made.
HMK's been making it absolutely forever,and is well-published,if I recall correctly,both online and in print.
Mine,fwiw,came out just like his does-but I rarely make it anymore,preferring bubble,instead,personally.
(BHO makes me RETARDED,and I'm already dim enough,lol!)

3) BHO should NEVER be "runny",when finished.
(Except when it's first out-gassing!)


4) ...Sam's right (he usually is,lol!)
(Honestly,it's always a pleasure talking to Sam-some of you fuckwads don't know who he is,or he'd get FAR less b.s. than the sum n' total of what useless drivel usually keeps him from posting here,much.)
Sam's a real,live Cannabis Heavyweight. Respect it.
Anyhow,where was I,again?
Oh yeah....
Soma,years ago,over health concerns,had his BHO tested by a Dutch "drug testing" service (the same ones that'll test a batch of X for you,lolol!) and the report,if I remember correctly,found nothing toxic in "harmful levels" in that BHO run-and it wasn't "vacuumed" either. He used the uber-filtered butane that's easily available online,worldwide.
My two pence an d a farthing,y'all....



Cheers!

 

[Sleestak]

I don't know how people ever get runny BHO unless they're wayy overheating during purge. Other than that, it takes some real 'skill' to achieve runny BHO. That's why I love it so much...not difficult to make grade A+ BHO, whereas it takes more skill and effort with bubble.

Speaking of HMK and general BHO observations,, his kut-vape or Ti curve is truly the only way to efficiently smoke the stuff. No other method can compare in terms of taste, efficiency of use, ease of use, or sending you to the fucking moon.

 

[cocogroguy]

I don't know how people ever get runny BHO unless they're wayy overheating during purge. Other than that, it takes some real 'skill' to achieve runny BHO. That's why I love it so much...not difficult to make grade A+ BHO, whereas it takes more skill and effort with bubble.

totally agree...........mine always comes out amber and within an hour after initial gassing on the caserole dish it is shards of glass. I only run buds.

Weird how something so simple can be fugged up and overcomplicated. Simple understanding from like 9th grade science class would cover this subject.

 

[REZDOG]

Bubble's easy.

Ghetto Bubble
(My bubbleBag screen #s may be a tad off,mi apologia!)

**73u bag
**220u bag
**VERY High Quality Trim,or better yet,BUDS!
(Crap trim = crap results,every time!)
Oh,and always....
ALWAYS USE FRESH,FROZEN TRIM.

....Load trim into 220 with 73 under it,in a garbage can,or whathaveyou.

....Use the "normal" level of ice.

....Stir,with paddle,for 10 minutes,GENTLY.

....Pull 220 from 73.

....Rinse the 73u bag with clean,cold water.

....Finish,as usual.


There.
Good,full-melt bubble,de-mystified.



Cheers!

 

[jump117]

absolute

absolute

The part of discussion in quotes about re-dissolving BHO in ethanol.

... redissolve bho in ethanol and butan residue will be free to go out of solution. ...

...I just can't understand why you or jump would suggest adding alcohol and then evaporating ...

i'm no scientist, but i would never propose to ruin tasty butane extracted marijuana essence by retreating it with that nasty alcohol stuff.

...ethanol is perfect as primary solvent as secondary. ...And it provides removing "B" from BHO. ...You think it removes useful terpens from bho? ...

In terms of this quotes from Wikipedia a primary BHO is concrete and after dissolving in ethanol and evaporation it turns into absolute, the more delicate product.



Absolute (fragrance)
Used in perfumery and aromatherapy, absolutes are similar to essential oils.
They are concentrated, highly-aromatic, oily mixtures extracted from plants.

First, an organic solvent, such as hexane, is added to the plant material to help extract the hydrophobic compounds.
This solution is filtered and concentrated by distillation to produce a waxy mass called concrete.
The lower molecular weight, fragrant compounds are extracted from the concrete into ethanol.
When the ethanol evaporates, an oil -the absolute -is left behind.

Fragrance extraction...Although highly fragrant, concretes are too viscous - even solid - at room temperature to be useful.
This is due to the presence of high-molecular-weight, non-fragrant waxes and resins.
Another solvent, often ethyl alcohol, which only dissolves the fragrant low-molecular weight compounds,
must be used to extract the fragrant oil from the concrete.
The alcohol is removed by a second distillation, leaving behind the absolute. ...

Ethanol extraction is a type of solvent extraction used to extract fragrant compounds directly from dry raw materials,
as well as the impure oils or concrete resulting from organic solvent extraction, expression, or enfluerage.
Ethanol extracts from dry materials are called tinctures, while ethanol washes for purifying oils and concretes are called absolutes.

The impure substances or oils are mixed with ethanol, which is less hydrophobic than solvents used for organic extraction,
dissolves more of the oxidized aromatic constituents (alcohols, aldehydess, etc.),
leaving behind the wax, fats, and other generally hydrophobic substances.
The alcohol is evaporated under low-pressure, leaving behind absolute.
The absolute may be further processed to remove any impurities that are still present from the solvent extraction.

Ethanol extraction is not used to extract fragrance from fresh plant materials;
these contain large quantities of water, which would also be extracted into the ethanol.

(end of quote) The last sentence in the quote is dogma.

 

[Hi Guys]

Hey jump, looks like you picked a great place for talking about dealing only in absolutes. After all, you posted below rezdog. That's probably the funniest thing about oil I've read on here. Be careful when you let people tell you that folks like HMK and Sam are infallible though.

Especially when you've applied a procedure common in the essential oils industry to BHO and are taking such shit for it. You're one step away from employing a process that's used in a 2007 US Patent for improving cannabis extracts. I'm glad you posted retorts by those experts refuting it as pointless. Cold ethanol can remove not only butane and propane, but all alkanes from cannabis resin.