I always purge by BHO or QWISO in a large, flat pyrex dish over a pan of boiling water until there is very definitely nothing liquid or even pliable about it, then I have to scrape it off with a razor blade, I'm sure there is still some solvent in it, but I'm also sure there is nothing else I could do with the tools I have to get it any cleaner.
Budder is a retarded idea as it's not fully purged when you start whipping it.
Budder is a retarded idea as it's not fully purged when you start whipping it.
people who dont really know what they are talking about shouldnt be in the habit of making concrete statements, it reflects poorly on one.
gunnaknow
Active member
N-butane has a boiling point of -0.5°C, which probably doesn't require a vacuum to be purged thoroughly. Most butane refills also contain gases like isobutane and propane in the mixture, which have even lower boiling points, -11.7 °C and −42.09 °C respectively. However, the term butane can sometimes be used to describe a broader mixture of c3-c4 gases. Most of these have lower boiling points than N-butane but a few have higher boiling points, which may benefit from a vacuum purging. These are the only c3-c4 gases that I know of that have higher boiling points than butane, there may be a couple more. Whether or not a vacuum purge is worth it may depend on what's in your butane refill.
2-butene 1 °C
1-butyne 8.08 °C
2-butyne 26.95 °C
cyclobutane 12.5 °C
methylcyclopropane 4–5 °C
Also, the Near Zero Impurities benchmark sets a limit of 50ppm for non volatile impurities but not a benchmark for volatile impurities. The EU definition of a volatile organic compound (VOC) is any organic compound with a boiling point below 250°C but there are many other definitions of what constitutes something as being volatile. If keen-newport are using the same definition as the EU's definition for VOCs, then there could be some volatile impurities with relatively high boiling points, in the butane. Vacuum purging would increase the amount of these higher end volatiles that could be removed.
2-butene 1 °C
1-butyne 8.08 °C
2-butyne 26.95 °C
cyclobutane 12.5 °C
methylcyclopropane 4–5 °C
Also, the Near Zero Impurities benchmark sets a limit of 50ppm for non volatile impurities but not a benchmark for volatile impurities. The EU definition of a volatile organic compound (VOC) is any organic compound with a boiling point below 250°C but there are many other definitions of what constitutes something as being volatile. If keen-newport are using the same definition as the EU's definition for VOCs, then there could be some volatile impurities with relatively high boiling points, in the butane. Vacuum purging would increase the amount of these higher end volatiles that could be removed.
The boiling point of butane being below room temperature does not mean it's all gone when it reaches room temperature. Physical chemistry is complicated when dealing with mixtures.
Unless you have a Yellow Jacket and a metal container with the necessary hoses and fittings, a very simple and convenient way to do this is to do what a chemist would do: place the container of BHO in a heavy glass vacuum desiccator (cheap, used) and pull aspirator vacuum. Resting in warm water wouldn't stress the glass too much, but you can't really heat these and sudden changes in temperature would be very bad. A $10 aspirator using cold water will pull far more vacuum than any home vacuum sealer.
When you heat BHO to hot, those bubbles aren't butane; you are converting THCA to THC.
Unless you have a Yellow Jacket and a metal container with the necessary hoses and fittings, a very simple and convenient way to do this is to do what a chemist would do: place the container of BHO in a heavy glass vacuum desiccator (cheap, used) and pull aspirator vacuum. Resting in warm water wouldn't stress the glass too much, but you can't really heat these and sudden changes in temperature would be very bad. A $10 aspirator using cold water will pull far more vacuum than any home vacuum sealer.
When you heat BHO to hot, those bubbles aren't butane; you are converting THCA to THC.
as i was told by keen in an email and i see reference to here, the impurities are oleaginous wax particles.
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cach...inous+wax+impurities&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
I use an industrial vac. pump, pulls serious vacuum
I don't really like oil much, though.
SD
Hi.
This will remove just about all residual butane.
Any questions?
SD
if you dont really like oil at all, why bother making this thread at all?
this has been educational thank you!
I've said this many times and repeat now - redissolve bho in ethanol and butan residue will be free to go out of solution.
To evaporate ethanol use vacuum if you have one and want to use it,
if you don't - double boiler will help to evaporate along with partial decarboxilation.
To evaporate ethanol use vacuum if you have one and want to use it,
if you don't - double boiler will help to evaporate along with partial decarboxilation.
Gotta do something with the trim, I get tired of screen rubbing, and thought someone else might wanna try this.
gunnaknow
Active member
I didn't say that. I'd recommend purging the oil with heat, to rid it of any butane residue. I just stated that pure N-butane would probably not require vacuum purging. As I said, the vacuum would be beneficial for removing any hydrocarbons with higher boiling points, that might be in the butane.
Thankyou Hashmasta, I have read that page several times over the last few years. The oleaginous wax particles are hydrocarbons, like butane but they possess more carbon and hydrogen atoms, making them much less volatile. They are basically the hydrocarbons that you find in paraffin wax, with 20 or more carbon atoms. However, it's not just these solid at room temperature hydrocarbons that are the problem. As I said before, the Near Zero Impurities bench mark only sets limits on non volatile impurities.
There are volatile hydrocarbons that could also be present, that would also be hard to remove by purging. Hydrocarbons with more than 6 carbon atoms, that are liquid at room temperature, will be difficult to remove completely without the addition of vacuum purging. They are basically the order of hydrocarbons found in things like naptha and kerosene/paraffin. Alkanes like hexane, heptane, octane, nonane, decane etc and their related alkenes, alkynes, cycloalkanes and alkadienes. With the addition of low pressure, those hydrocarbons upto about c11 can be removed. Much past c11 and you start to get too close to the boiling points of cannabinoids.
However, there is another way to remove any residues of hydrocarbons above c11. The miscibility of ethanol with alkanes is limited to alkanes up to undecane (c11), mixtures with dodecane (c12) and higher alkanes show a miscibility gap below a certain temperature (approx. 13 °C for dodecane). Not only this but the hydrocarbons above c11, have sufficiently high melting points for them to be solidified and precipitated out.
To do this, the BHO must be redissolved in alcohol and then ideally placed in the freezer, on it's coldest setting. Any >c18 hydrocarbon residues will immediately precipitate out of the solution upon redissolving the BHO. The c11-18 hydrocarbon residues will solidify and precipitate out upon refridgeration. This precipitate can then be removed by filtration. It can require good quality lab filter paper (Whatman etc) though, coffee filter papers may not get the job done. Such steps aren't really necessary but if you're the kind of person that goes to the effort of vacuum purging then you're also probably the kind of person that finds the method that I explained above interesting. Another benefit is that it removes any plant waxes that the butane may have extracted from the plant material.
gunna
^good post. I wonder how intense something that pure is to smoke. never had it that pure before
are you sure that thc doesnt precipitate in an chilled alcohol solution? I bet it precipitates quicker than most of these alleged waxy type hydrocarbons. As a chemist I gotta tell you, trying to draw conclusions about what will happen with complex mixtures of organic molecules that are large (basically everything in bho except for the minuscule amount of butane) is fraught with misadventure.
Id like to see the resultant purified oil and hear a smoke report before Id believe what will and won't work.
KnuckleHedd
Member
My last run I let the pyrex sit on top of the hot water heater for 5 days. It wasn't hot, just warm then I purged 3 more times with very hot tap water and scraped. Its very nice tasting, not sticky to the touch and overall nice hard oil. I don't use boiling water anymore, just the hottest water from the tap, and I don't seem to be driving the terpines off like I was.But, I don't entertain the idea that it's butane free.
Anyone worried about a spark from a vacuum sealer or just need an affordable vacuum sealer, check out http://www.pump-n-seal.com. I've had mine for years and store all my bud with it.
gunnaknow
Active member
Perhaps at some point but not down to -26C. That's as low as I've tested because that's as low as my freezer goes. Haven't you ever used alcohol from the freezer to extract with?
Not in my experience. If you're that uncomfortable about the idea of refridgerating the alcohol then just use room temp alcohol. If you can bare to put the alcohol in the fridge at 5C then you'll atleast be able to precipitate c14 hydrocarbons like tetradecane and those above c14. The vast majority of any precipitate will be made up of the plant waxes, ofcourse as these are much more abundant than any traces of hydrocarbon residues in the butane.
Then you have some work to do, dont you? I'm not here to try and persuade you, so don't expect pics and smoke reports to appear for your pleasure. lol
gunna
Its not for my pleasure, it is for the credibility of your premise. I make more bho than most anyone, got the pictures to prove it, and am not concerned with tiny amounts of butane, waxes, or whathevers. just trying to protect those who can't tell internet talk from proven documented techniques.
