Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[BigBudBill]

A. I was addressing 20 yo smokers that would be affected by prop 19. What is in 19 as a misdemeanor is now a non criminal offense(civil infraction) so it's a non issue. I am not referring to the fine. I am referring to the fact that it is now a civil offense rather than a crime.
B. This is huge for the simple fact that a misdemeanor drug crime WILL prevent you from receiving Federal Student Aid. An infraction wont even be on your record after it's paid and cant be used against you and cant be increased for successive violations.

What the new Leno SB did was protect some people from the potential "new" crimes listed in 19. Some of those are now effectively held at the infraction level.

I know you said "thats it". But that thing you minimize is HUUUUUUGE to some people.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

In my opinion ANYONE who votes against 19 doesn't want ANY legalization EVER. Why would you fight so hard over minor details specially when you have your precious mmj system that grants you all rights you complain about 19 not having.

The only thing anti19s are TRULY afraid of is competition and slightly lower prices rather they want to admit it or not. At least krunchbubble will admit it the rest of you anti19s who don't want to admit it are spineless lying deceitful coward scumbags.

I tire quickly from repeating myself, but you seemingly enjoy repeating your bullshit. So once again...

Not everyone is greedy. They are NOT spineless lying deceitful coward scumbags.

Some are simply concerned with the finer details which you seem to think will work themselves out just fine after you pass this bill.

Please quit acting like anyone can get a rec and use medical. It cheapens my appearance as an honest smoker.

Personally I believe that anyone who isn't ill that uses medical marijuana is simply hiding behind true patients. I am sadly aware this is the majority of MMJ consumers.

I think they are spineless lying deceitful coward scumbags.

Go ahead and tell me any use is medical.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

What happened to discussion?

Did we agree that 19 is the best thing we've ever been able to do?

 

[Frozenguy]

dude I think u have an issue with understanding. 215 Is on the book for med users only 19 is/will be on the books for rec users only. The 2 laws are separate and can not be used together. there laws are completely diferant and can not be compared. this thread is about prop 19 not 215. Do u not understand this? I just dont get how difficult you are being. Im trying to let you know this. Any discussion in this thread should contain laws the pertain to 19 and 19 only. You have made me tired Im going to sleep now maybe someone else can try to help u understand there not the same.

I'm sorry Hammerhead, you just dont get it. I cant believe you dont realize how relevant it is. I know they are different, you have pointed that out very well lol, but different doesn't mean they cant be relevant.

no where does it say you have to store, dry, cure and process in the 5x5. it says on the premised where the harvest takes place (this means your HOME) and what's that got to do with ANYTHING?

Yal anti19s act like they will start a pot scrutiny police to be doing daily inspections on every single personal grow. Get REAL. and all these stupid fucking details will be hammered away once mj is legalized. it's not going to end at 19. people (including myself) will continue to fight for better mj laws. But how can we ever expect better pot laws by voting against the first "legalization" prop in decades? Do you realize how much that will set the movement back?

In my opinion ANYONE who votes against 19 doesn't want ANY legalization EVER. Why would you fight so hard over minor details specially when you have your precious mmj system that grants you all rights you complain about 19 not having.

The only thing anti19s are TRULY afraid of is competition and slightly lower prices rather they want to admit it or not. At least krunchbubble will admit it the rest of you anti19s who don't want to admit it are spineless lying deceitful coward scumbags.

Nope you're very wrong and attempting to make generalizations. Stereotyping is not a good quality Big Herb.
I can't believe you got upped on this post?!!
And you're wrong. All of you are wrong about drying your plants. I have pointed it out to you and you guys come back to me with nonsense. I'll try and explain it again for all of you (below)

You are correct. And to clear up any confusion, lets take a nice look at prop 19.

Here is the part previously quoted:



Now lets go to section 11300(a)...



a. I. is for possession. 1 ounce only.
a. II. is for cultivation. Only allowed in a 25 sq ft area per residence.
a. III. is for Possession in your residence where grown, allowed keep any of the harvest (in possession).


Hopefully that clears all that up.

Uh you didn't clear anything up. You didn't even really address what I had stated.
Who do you think was quoting this and showing it to everyone when no one knew why you could keep unlimited amounts at home? ME.
But you still mis read it for other parts. I'll have to lay it all out for you I guess. Read below

why the past tense guy..
i read your post and found it ludicrous from a legal standpoint.
so much so that i did not deem it worthy of response...

as you seemed to ignore my questions concerning your flexible moral indignation...



you promise really?
pinkie swear?

Yeah I pretty much promise, because I know people who are pissed off about 19 and are already working on another in hopes 19 fails.

i wouldnt have done it for him...

he has his reasons for spreading lies.
when people have that mindset little things like facts dont even slow them down....

remember WMD's?
orthe "healthcare" bill...

Bro I'm not spreading lies. Take the ignorance, and check it. I come to you with legal quotes from the prop showing you what the prop will do, and you say Im spreading lies. Lol.. Typical answer from someone that doesn't have an answer.

People on internet arguments sometimes get so overwhelmed with their pride, they resort to just posting an attack, not a real answer, like this. I posted a quote from the prop you love and you called me a liar lol. I think you should take your own words to heart:

when people have that mindset little things like facts dont even slow them down....

Reading comprehension is a must here guys!
Here is where it says that you have to keep harvested plants in your 25sqft. Read carefully, this isn't a lie Dagnabit, its from prop19 unless you think thats a lie LOL.

HERE

(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a);
HHHHMMMM. Harvested plants will be ASSESSED BY SQUARE FOOTAGE. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU? THIS IS SPECIFYING/DEFINING SECTION 11300. This clears that section up.


SOMEONE UPPED BIG HERB TREE?? HE WAS WRONG GUYS lol.. HE WAS WRONG!!! Dont find his post helpful! I'm sorry, I have much respect for him, but he was wrong about the wording of the section!!!

 

[BrainSellz]

A cannabis cup in Cali would be nice (one that all folks are welcome). That would happen maybe if this passes, but i dunno

 

[gdtrfb]

the interesting part about these discussions is people fretting over whether they'll be legal in square feet while there are heaps of us still dealing with illegality in just having a single freaking plant.

i'd say some of you are spoiled little brats if i didn't know better.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I am in the same boat as you are gdtrfb.

Aren't all Americans spoiled little brats though?

The Federal law is what will prove interesting.

 

[BigBudBill]

TO me it means, I can store whatever I grow at anytime from that 5 X 5 for indefinite amounts of time. TO me it means the burden of proof is not on me to prove I grew whatever quantity I have stored. TO me it means I can't be prosecuted for drying my plants outside my 5 x 5. Of course I have had my rec since 2000 and police REFUSE to come look at my grow(yes I have a recording on my answering machine I saved to show to guests ;-)). To me it means its a non- issue. My reading comprehension is just fine, as is the tin-foil hat on my head.

Continue attempting to make those mole-hills into mountains....most educated people see right through that non-sense you are spewing.

 

[rives]

(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a); [/B]
HHHHMMMM. Harvested plants will be ASSESSED BY SQUARE FOOTAGE. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU? THIS IS SPECIFYING/DEFINING SECTION 11300. This clears that section up.

So which makes more sense to you to assess the storage of your grow results - (iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption or seeing how high you can stack lbs in a square foot of area? Even if this ridiculous interpretation of yours is correct, I can get by with a 4x6 grow canopy and a 1x1x10 (high ceilings in my place) to stack the results in. That would be 75 gallons worth of herb.

 

[HUGE]

I am in the same boat as you are gdtrfb.

Aren't all Americans spoiled little brats though?

The Federal law is what will prove interesting.

Right. I just dint see the Feds letting this slide.

 

[Frozenguy]

TO me it means, I can store whatever I grow at anytime from that 5 X 5 for indefinite amounts of time. TO me it means the burden of proof is not on me to prove I grew whatever quantity I have stored. TO me it means I can't be prosecuted for drying my plants outside my 5 x 5. Of course I have had my rec since 2000 and police REFUSE to come look at my grow(yes I have a recording on my answering machine I saved to show to guests ;-)). To me it means its a non- issue. My reading comprehension is just fine, as is the tin-foil hat on my head.

Continue attempting to make those mole-hills into mountains....most educated people see right through that non-sense you are spewing.

You got everything right except drying. You have to dry inside the 25sq ft. WEll it can be away from your grow, but however much room your drying harvested plants take, that is assessed by sqftage. Its all right there in plain English.
I'm not spewing nonsense I just quoted your nonsense prop bro. Dont say I spew nonsense, its rude and inaccurate.

So which makes more sense to you to assess the storage of your grow results - (iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption or seeing how high you can stack lbs in a square foot of area? Even if this ridiculous interpretation of yours is correct, I can get by with a 4x6 grow canopy and a 1x1x10 (high ceilings in my place) to stack the results in. That would be 75 gallons worth of herb.

Rives its not a ridiculous interpretation. The prop says it clear as day. The prop does, not me the prop.

Stop getting on my back for what the prop says. THE PROP ITSELF says that living and harvested plants will be assessed by square footage. It means what it means, they will be assessed by square footage. How can anyone interpret that any other way then what it means?

And you're right, many people will have to stack their bud high to stay legal.
Sucks to have to unstack and stack whenever you need some from your stash after you run out of your ounce.

 

[rives]

Rives its not a ridiculous interpretation. The prop says it clear as day. The prop does, not me the prop.

Stop getting on my back for what the prop says. THE PROP ITSELF says that living and harvested plants will be assessed by square footage. It means what it means, they will be assessed by square footage. How can anyone interpret that any other way then what it means?

I say ridiculous interpretation because it says both in the prop. I think that it is pretty obvious which version was meant to apply, but the even if your right, it's really not too difficult to live with.

 

[Frozenguy]

I say ridiculous interpretation because it says both in the prop. I think that it is pretty obvious which version was meant to apply, but the even if your right, it's really not too difficult to live with.

What I posted specifies that other section. It is further defining it, not saying both stand.

And with that said, that other part that is in "conflict" says you must keep all results on the premises (house) where grown (the garden). It is specifying that and saying that dried/harvested plants WILL be assessed by square footage, saying the results of your harvest will be assessed by square footage.

Its not about being hard to live with, its about living in a freaking free country.

Who the fuck thinks its ok for the government to come in and tell you how much cannabis you can grow? This is EARTH, WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS lol. Some of you are letting your government trample all over you.

Prop19 is cool for one reason: You wont need a doctors rec to smoke bud. But it sucks for all other reasons.

You can't even smoke outside! What bullshit! You can give cancer to babies with cigarettes but cant smoke bud? I know, harder to pass if that was on there, I agree, but COME ON lol..

 

[rives]

Its not about being hard to live with, its about living in a freaking free country.

Who the fuck thinks its ok for the government to come in and tell you how much cannabis you can grow? This is EARTH, WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS lol. Some of you are letting your government trample all over you.

Prop19 is cool for one reason: You wont need a doctors rec to smoke bud. But it sucks for all other reasons.

Oh, absolutely. It will only be the most liberal marijuana law in the world. But it's not enough. We can't get complacent. We should hold out for the blowjobs.

 

[Frozenguy]

Oh, absolutely. It will only be the most liberal marijuana law in the world. But it's not enough. We can't get complacent. We should hold out for the blowjobs.

The most liberal marijuana law in the world. That says a lot.. Its easy to say that with ANY language on the prop when damn near the whole world says its illegal.

Here in California and many other states we can grow cannabis legally. OMG I'm talking about 215 Hammerhead!!

We can grow already! I'm not in a hurry to legalize recreational smoking when people who NEED it or severely want it can get it no problem. There will be a better prop out on the next ballot.

We have the ability to grow our own cannabis until then.

Again, I'm not looking for perfection, so dont use that line on me. I'm just not satisfied with prop19. Just because you are doesn't mean I am, should be, or have to be.

A lot of you pro-prop19 people are very villainizing, when I just want something better for the people, not outrageous, just better; and that makes a lot of you butt hurt because you want what you want NOW.

 

[rives]

The most liberal marijuana law in the world. That says a lot.. Its easy to say that with ANY language on the prop when damn near the whole world says its illegal.

Here in California and many other states we can grow cannabis legally. OMG I'm talking about 215 Hammerhead!!

We can grow already! I'm not in a hurry to legalize recreational smoking when people who NEED it or severely want it can get it no problem. There will be a better prop out on the next ballot.

We have the ability to grow our own cannabis until then.

Again, I'm not looking for perfection, so dont use that line on me. I'm just not satisfied with prop19. Just because you are doesn't mean I am, should be, or have to be.

A lot of you pro-prop19 people are very villainizing, when I just want something better for the people, not outrageous, just better; and that makes a lot of you butt hurt because you want what you want NOW.

I don't think that I am villainizing you by pointing out that it's been almost 40 years since the last time this was on the ballot, and it's been illegal for almost 75 years. There isn't one thing on the horizon that anyone has been able to definitively link. You are building air castles, and we are building foundations. This is going to have to be done incrementally or its not going to be passed by the electorate. Quit dreaming.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

is that fact or opinion?
Fix prop 215 first!!!!

erased it because I gotta be the better one . Keep it up with the name calling.. Just because you don't have the communication skills to convince another person to see your point of view you let your emo-opinions get to you.

Why bother with facts and reasoning with you people, it's proven to make NO difference. There are some here that truly are just looking for information to make informed decisions, but there are so many of you that are just here to spread lies and misinformation. Ive cool headed long enough with this bullshit and I'm getting really fucking tired of it.

You can't make a single fucking argument without trying to scare people into voting your way. EVERY argument is fear mongering from your side. It's either mj will be so low priced growers will have to pay people to smoke it or monsanto will take over the entire mj scene and we can only purchase from their mutated stock or Phillip Morris is going to plant 20 trillion acres of radioactive mj they will force you to smoke or people will go to jail for longer sentances then they currently do.


IT'S ALL BULLSHIT. You tell us to stop speculating the optomistic side of 19 yet all of you rave about these lunatic ideas as if they are written in stone. Good thing the average voter isn't so foolish to believe your disgusting fear mongering and 19 will pass.

19 will be groundbreaking. 19 will be to America what 215 was to California. Let's legalize it in CA to start the ball rolling on a multi state legalization come 2012. Hopefully by then more states will have introduced similar legislation after seeing the support and success of 19 in california.

It's 2010 let the RE-legalization BEGIN !!!!!

 

[vta]

Legalizing Marijuana Would End Prohibition..

Legalizing Marijuana Would End Prohibition..

LEGALIZING MARIJUANA WOULD END PROHIBITION AND INCREASE THE PEACE
By Nate Bradley

ON Nov. 2, California voters can strengthen community safety and bolster public infrastructure with a simple "yes" vote on Proposition 19, the initiative to control and tax marijuana.

After fighting on the front lines of the War on Drugs as a police officer, I know that the current prohibition on marijuana not only doesn't work, but causes harm. That's why I'm voting "yes" to change our marijuana laws on Nov. 2. I, and an increasing number of law enforcement professionals, have learned that most of the negatives associated with marijuana stem from prohibition rather than from the plant itself. These negatives - not least of which is cartel-driven violence - can be reversed when we move to finally control and tax the market, instead of letting criminals make all the decisions ( and profits ).

Those who support continued prohibition don't have facts on their side, only fear. Fear argues regulating and taxing cannabis will provide a "gateway drug" to impressionable teenagers. Fear cries regulating and taxing cannabis will increase crime. Fear says regulating and taxing cannabis will transform California workers into stoner zombies. Fear claims regulating and taxing cannabis will encourage people to toke up and get behind the wheel.

But these fears are actually the reality of our current situation under prohibition. Despite having extremely harsh marijuana laws, the U.S. has the highest rate of cannabis consumption in the world. It is twice as high as the Netherlands, where commercial sales to adults have been tolerated for decades.

In California, an estimated one-tenth to one-third of the population uses marijuana, according to estimates by the federal government. So, anywhere from 3.8 million to 12.5 million state residents smoke cannabis. And these estimates may be conservative because unlike in the cases of murder, robbery, rape, burglary, stalking and assault, marijuana use is consensual and unlikely to be reported by "victims" or witnesses.

Meanwhile, prohibition is clearly not keeping marijuana out of the hands of young people. Federal surveys consistently show more than 80 percent of teenagers say marijuana is "easy" or "very easy" to get. In a recent study from Columbia University, teenagers said it is easier to get illegal marijuana than age-regulated alcohol. Under current law, criminals - not obligated to request proof of age - benefit from prohibition at our communities' expense.

And the expense is great.

In a study released last week, Jeffrey Miron, a Harvard University economist, characterized prohibition as "fiscally irresponsible." He noted that marijuana prohibition in California alone consumes overall government expenditures of more than $960 million annually while forcing us to forgo nearly $351 million in tax revenues from legal and taxed marijuana.

Let's be realistic, the days of shooting up the neighborhood for a share of the beer market ended when we repealed alcohol prohibition.

Al Capone, rest his soul, is dead and buried. Yet the federal Drug Enforcement Administration estimates Mexican cartels derive more than 60 percent of their profits from marijuana. Legalization would bleed their profits. With more than 28,000 Mexicans killed in the past four years in turf wars - battles are spreading north of the border - hamstringing the drug cartels is a national priority.

As for stoned workers, ending marijuana prohibition doesn't mean abandoning common sense. Just as the legal sale of alcohol neither encourages workplace drunkenness nor prevents employers from taking appropriate action against errant workers, there's nothing in Prop. 19 that forces employers to tolerate workers who are impaired on the job.

Similarly, the rules of the road will remain unchanged. Driving under the influence will remain illegal after Prop. 19 passes, and for good reason. So, let's take the opportunity this November to finally put a stop to decades of reefer madness.

Our Golden State's health, safety and economic future are at stake. We need to return our attention and limited resources to where they belong - away from pot smokers and toward violent criminals, from budget deficits to new revenue streams. Proposition 19 will allow police to focus on protecting public safety, the job we signed up for.

Please join me and many other law enforcers in supporting this much-needed change to our failed marijuana laws.

Source: San Gabriel Valley Tribune (CA)
Note: Nate Bradley is a member of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
(www.CopsSayLegalizeDrugs.com) and is a former officer with the
Wheatland Police Department.

 

[vta]

everyday I read about more and more LEO coming out in favor of legalization. imagine that

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I tire quickly from repeating myself, but you seemingly enjoy repeating your bullshit. So once again...

Not everyone is greedy. They are NOT spineless lying deceitful coward scumbags.

Some are simply concerned with the finer details which you seem to think will work themselves out just fine after you pass this bill.

Please quit acting like anyone can get a rec and use medical. It cheapens my appearance as an honest smoker.

Personally I believe that anyone who isn't ill that uses medical marijuana is simply hiding behind true patients. I am sadly aware this is the majority of MMJ consumers.

I think they are spineless lying deceitful coward scumbags.

Go ahead and tell me any use is medical.

Your preaching to the choir. I deal with more "patients" than most people on this forum and to say 215 is overly abused is a serious understatement. This is why RECREATIONAL mj needs to be legalized. It's a fucking joke people need to fake an illness to enjoy a substance that is far safer than alcohol.

Now is the time to strike. If 19 fails that will mean two things. 1) California voters DONT want mj and 2) mj should only be for seriously sick californians (215). If cooley gains AG of california who is going to get the hammer brought down on them? People like me and krunchbubble.

It is time to make a statement that we are no longer criminals. I put alot of time, energy and experience into this and should be treated just like any other business owner. I pay taxes, donate to charities, do volunteer work, help the homeless and I'm treated like a fuckin scumbag.

Well I'm damned sick of it. The time is now to make our industry 100% legitimate. I'm not in it for the money I'm in it for the love of the plant and sharing that love with the good people of my community.