UFC 2015

[m314]

G`day M314

Liver shot ...
Shuts down the body involuntarily . Cowboy may have had the will to continue . But his body wouldn`t comply .

* apology
I was thinking Weidman vs Rockhold for the saved by the bell comment previously .

I watched the slo mo of Jnr vs Reem repeatedly . Jnr `s eyes did roll back into his head for a split second as he went down .Recovered as he hit the ground ...

Thanks for shrin

EB .

Did you see Arturo Gatti fight Micky Ward in boxing? Their first fight was one of the all time great battles in combat sports. Ward landed the perfect left hook to the liver, and Gatti shut down. The HBO commentators thought it was over, there was no chance he could continue. He got back up and went on to win the next round.

It's just a complicated issue in MMA. They don't give guys a ten count if they get knocked down in MMA. You have to protect yourself immediately and try to recover while you're hurt.

Cowboy might have recovered if they gave him time. Maybe not.

 

[Bwanabud]

Did you see Arturo Gatti fight Micky Ward in boxing? Their first fight was one of the all time great battles of all time in combat sports. Ward landed the perfect left hook to the liver, and Gatti shut down. The HBO commentators thought it was over, there was no chance he could continue. He got back up and went on to win the next round.

It's just a complicated issue in MMA. They don't give guys a ten count if they get knocked down in MMA. You have to protect yourself immediately and try to recover while you're hurt.

Cowboy might have recovered if they gave him time. Maybe not.

Yea the Gatti/Ward trilogy, unreal...only for Gatti to die under very suspicious conditions later in life.

And you're right, without a 10 count the ref has to make calls quick...I think JDS would have won, and should have continued...Cowboy was done, and stoppage was correct...in my opinion.

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day B , M314

He took 2 really hard shots to the liver .
Then got kneed in the head ducking to protect his liver .

Pettis took him out with a liver shot as well ...

No standing count and 5 min rnd vs 3 . No punching on the break in Boxing , No clinching, no kicks / knees . Apples and oranges .

Like I said prev . It was the Sth Paw stance from Reem that nullified Jnrs 1-2 .
His corner were telling him jab - right cross . Reem patted Jnr`s front hand and didn`t let him measure distance . Also moved to Jnr`s power hand constantly . Where as generally the Sth Paw circles away from the power hand . fcked with Jnr`s mind . He couldn`t pull the trigger .

And when Jnr did throw the jab later in the fight it lead to his down fall . when Reem slipped it and countered with the left hook .
Very fine game plan by Jackson / Winklejon . IMO .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Bwanabud]

Elmer B,
Great summary, those liver shots put him down...he said in his press conference that the first knee did it.

And you're right Jackson/Winklejon always have great strategy, they are trying to take all the belts

 

[m314]

Win or lose, I love Cowboy for who he is as a fighter. He's willing to fight anyone anytime. He would fight again in a couple weeks if the UFC let him. He doesn't make excuses when he loses. He goes all out every time, and he either wins or loses. He has the heart of a true fighter.

 

[RetroGrow]

Man I sure agree with that, normally I respect Herb's job in the ring...but the RDS/Cerrone & Dos Santos/Overeem were both stopped too early

I thought that initially....but after watching it again, Cerrone was pretty badly hurt, and although he had his hand up blocking the ground and pound, Dos Anjos had his back, and would have continued with the punishment or a submission. There was no way Cerrone was going to get out of that.
On the other hand, I thought Junior was not given the benefit of the doubt he deserved, as someone who can really take a shot and keep on coming. I didn't think he was hurt at all. He was stunned momentarily by the initial blow, but kept his eyes on Reem the whole time, and was ready to get up when it was stopped prematurely. He argued immediately, and rightfully so. He would have gotten up easily and probably knocked Reem out. Junior is dangerous even when hurt, and Reem is not known for endurance. Thought that was a really bad call.
Doesn't make sense how they allow unconscious people to be hammer fisted, but stop a guy like Junior after one flash knockdown when he wasn't even hurt.

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Retro

Reem busted Jnr`s nose with a straight left early .
Then made his eyes roll back into his head with a clean shot to the point of the jaw and was hammer fisting on his cranium .

Fair stoppage in my opinion . Difference between lighter weights and the big units a factor .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Bwanabud]

Nate got moved up to 8th position.

Merry Christmas to all

 

[m314]

Nate should be in the top 5. Nick should be in the top 5 at welterweight, if he wasn't banned for weed.

Nate outboxed and embarrassed Cowboy Cerrone when they fought. He's as good a boxer as anyone at lightweight. His main weakness is against strong wrestlers like Benson Henderson.

 

[RetroGrow]

G`day Retro

Reem busted Jnr`s nose with a straight left early .
Then made his eyes roll back into his head with a clean shot to the point of the jaw and was hammer fisting on his cranium .

Fair stoppage in my opinion . Difference between lighter weights and the big units a factor .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Can't agree. He was stunned momentarily by the flash knockdown, but wasn't hurt, and recovered immediately. He has earned the right to fight on and try to turn the tide by his previous battles. No doubt in my mind he could have continued. Ref should not be a factor in the outcome of a fight. Junior has come back from much worse. Fans shortchanged. All IMHO....

 

[birdman_]

Love to see Nate and Coner go at it One day..

 

[m314]

Nate would have a big height and reach advantage. Conor would have the advantage of being an elite fighter. Nate is a great fighter, but he's not at the absolute top of his division like Conor is.

This fight would be fun just from the trash talking beforehand.

 

[Elmer Bud]

Can't agree. He was stunned momentarily by the flash knockdown, but wasn't hurt, and recovered immediately. He has earned the right to fight on and try to turn the tide by his previous battles. No doubt in my mind he could have continued. Ref should not be a factor in the outcome of a fight. Junior has come back from much worse. Fans shortchanged. All IMHO....

G`day Retro

I hear yah .
The ref was blocked from seeing Jnr`s face for a moment , as Jnr went down . He was circling to get into better position and could only see Jnr collapse and then being hammer fisted .
We have many different angles to analyse from and slo mo replays . The ref doesn`t have the same view .

Big dif in MMA to Boxing is . get KTFO in boxing your career is off the rails . MMA a 3 fight win streak after getting KTFO and your #1 contender . I say err on early rather than late to protect the fighters . They can be stopped early and fight another day . Get too much brain trauma and gonna have the same scenario as the NFL with middle aged suicides and murder suicide .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[RetroGrow]

I believe that this fight brings up several points worthy of discussion. If safety was the main priority, you wouldn't have trained killers going at each other in a cage...
Or, as John McCain put it, "human cock fighting"...
As much as I enjoy the fights, I can see the other side of it, ie., the absurdity of human beings putting their health/lives on the line for money....all the effort and a lifetime of training to see which man will remain standing after they face off...reminiscent of the Roman Coliseum....Christians vs lions. Imagine if all that work and energy were put forth in studying to be a scientist or doctor....might we have world peace or a cure for cancer??? Probably not, but we'll never know...
The other point is, what about a standing 8 count, as in boxing? Some might argue that this increases danger, as the fighter would then be potentially exposed to a greater amount of cumulative damage. OTOH, we would not have referees making judgement calls which determine the outcome of fights. If there was a standing 8 count in Junior vs Reem, Junior would have continued fighting, and,all in my opinion, quite probably knocked Reem out, based on past performance, and the fact that Reem is heavily muscled and hence, not prepared biologically for endurance, whereas Junior can easily go 5 rounds. Remember, Junior took tremendous punishment vs Cain, and in other bouts, and kept on coming, in some cases to victory. In a war of attrition, Junior wins, IMHO. So many contradictions in MMA/UFC. They talk about fighter "safety", and stop some bouts quickly, and yet, they allow fighters to slam unconscious opponents in the head until the ref is able to get there and jump in. These are "death strikes", or strikes that would be used to kill an opponent who is already disabled/unconscious. Look no further that CMG vs Aldo that we all just watched. Aldo was unconscious, lying on his back, eyes closed, and CMG hovering over him and slamming him with hammer fists. One of these hammer fists to an unconscious opponent could result in death, yet they allow it. Where's the sportsmanship in that situation? To me, that's barbaric, and should not be allowed. I could argue that this is reason to have a standing 8 count.
So far, we haven't had any prominent cage fighters die in the ring, or immediately after a bout, as has happened many times in boxing, but there was a death in a "minor league" contest a couple years back. No one remembers the fighter's name, but if memory serves me, it was in New Mexico? One guy has died trying to make weight, a Brazilian fighter in the past year. No one remembers his name either, although I believe he was another "Silva", a very common name in Brazil. Aside from deaths, there has not been enough passage of time in cage fighting to see the long term damage that fighters are exposed to, but it is beginning to show, and will no doubt increase as time goes on. A couple of fighters that come to mind are Dan Henderson and Wanderleigh Silva, both of whom have been in many wars over an extended period of time, and are already showing the signs of brain damage, IMO. These guys will get worse as time passes, much like the NFL players who take hits for years, with the damage showing up later. This damage is proven by brain scans, and would surely show up in fighters if studies were done. Punch drunk MMA fighters will become commonplace as more guys endure years of wars. Guys who "take a good punch" are most vulnerable, as the skull can be protected, but the brain can't. Every time your brain is concussed, that is permanent damage, with brain cells dying. Fortunately we (well, some of us) have trillions of brain cells, so the surviving ones compensate for the missing (dead) cells to an extent, until the damage adds up to a kind of breaking point.
Robbie Lawlor is a warrior who takes a good shot, and keeps on coming. Will this serve him in the end, or is the bodies defense mechanism of unconsciousness really a safety measure? Time will tell.

 

[birdman_]

This fight would be fun just from the trash talking beforehand.

Exactly,and During the round(s)!



! Retro. ^ Like a BOOK.. Im not Skilled enough! ..
playing..



Good points.. A Diverse World is all i can think of.
And a Standing Count is a Fantastic Idea.. Weird how some things arnt in place already like over hear football doesnt have video replays that the ref Discusses to Decipher whether a Goal has been Scored or not, BUT Rugby does! ? . )(*&!!*&

Send addy Eb,Rg!?.. Somethin 'ere you'l luv wearin' ........." "


Spot on! = Humble in Victory ..


np,Christmas present

 

[m314]

The people who are the best in the world at martial arts aren't generally the kind of people who'd be great scientists or doctors. There are exceptions, obviously. Some people are born with the gift of athleticism, able to do things physically that most people aren't capable of. Some are born with the gift of a scientific mind. Stephen Hawking was never going to be a great fighter.

Humans have an innate need for competition, and for violence to some degree. That's how we evolved. MMA is a way to satisfy that need without fighting wars or killing anyone. Two guys get in the cage, and whoever is the better man that night wins. It's the purest form of sport. It's risky but lots of people want to take that risk.

 

[RetroGrow]

The Diaz brothers were never going to be rocket scientists.....

 

[m314]

I can't imagine Nick or Nate doing anything with their lives other than fighting. They're two of the best in the world at what they do. They're natural born fighters.

 

[iTarzan]

Instead of stopping the fight like JDS make them get up before the count of 10. They should use the 10 count in mma. When you knock someone down and are not a ground and pound type or the guy knocked down is a Maia type make them get up before the 10 count.

 

[Bwanabud]

Retro,
Maybe we aren't as civilized as some think ?, maybe we as a species haven't progressed that far from the animal world ?

There is far more acts of inhumanity taking place daily, than the pugilistic competition of man. We watch our fellow humans die of starvation, genocide, racism, destruction of our earth.

If a free man/woman chooses to fight as a profession, accepting money for bodily harm...I as a free man can choose to endorse it. It's no different than the choice a football player, brick mason, or mountain climber makes...we all have our price, they chose theirs.