Trick my Pod - The complete Aeroponics primer

[WildWayne]

Thanks Villain, I didn't put it together Ebb & Flow DAAAH!! I am growing in the TAG method and am achieving great results. You might take a look at my album
http://icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=9711 Thanks

 

[PetFlora]

After absorbing the TAG forum, I bought the Advanced Mist System from WWW.REPTILEBASICS.COM

$199 complete, including a short cycle timer, but it sucks- cycles are too long. Now using a Sentinel MDT 1. Cycles is <3 seconds/5.5 pause. YES, less than 3 seconds!

The fog heads heads install in seconds. He also has parts and multiple heads. One single head will handle an 18G tote with a max of 4 plants.

I am keeping the TAG torch burning on my grow Journal. Come check it out.

 

[Villain]

Wayne those all look great. I really don't think I will ever TAG again. I just lost my pump and I do not have another 150.00 for a pump.I have the E&F dialed on pretty well, and am getting about a QP per plant under 1 400w. So as you can imagine my setup is much smaller than yours.

 

[SKUNK420]

Wayne how loud are those type of pumps and the loudness when the sprayers activate?

 

[Villain]

Great news my pump is still under warranty. They want me to peel the label off the pump and mail it in to them. He said when it arrives they will send me another pump. That is great cause it saves me 150, and I still get a new pump. I use the Shurflo Smart Sensor 5.7, it really is a great pump but I dropped it when I was first installing it. So it has been going strong for a few years before it finally shit the bed on me.

 

[WildWayne]

Since I am in a commercial situation and have air conditioners, fan air pumps running the pump noise is unnoticeable. I use Leader pumps, they are commercial and seem quiet to me. They are only running for one minute on and 3 minutes off. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

 

[WildWayne]

Villain, That is great news!! Maybe you will come back to the world of TAG? I haven't used the Shurflo pumps, I am using Leader pumps, big commercial ones and am achieving 75-80 psi. I will look into the Shurflo's.

 

[PetFlora]

I am using an Aquatech 8800 (?). It is not 'noisey', but it makes noise when on. You can always insulate it from the floor and/or even put a sound deadening box around it.

Don't forget, in TAG, it only runs 2-3 seconds at a time.

 

[dakin3d]

Tell us more about the 'accumulator' and its cost... I couldn't find anything on it. I understand the concept of short bursts, but how much significance would this make in regards to the overall health/size/yield of the plant. Or would it? I'm also aware that you like to be 'cutting edge', but I like to see some sort of return if I'm 'investing' more. Thanks in advance, dak

 

[Me2]

Tell us more about the 'accumulator' and its cost... I couldn't find anything on it.

I would recommend following the link in Tree Farmer`s post on page 4 of Petflora`s journal for accumulator information and HP aero in general.

 

[dakin3d]

I would recommend following the link in Tree Farmer`s post on page 4 of Petflora`s journal for accumulator information and HP aero in general.

My bad... Thanks. It's been while since I've read the thread

 

[PetFlora]

One thing always tugged at my mind when comparing the method with higher pressure pumps, with aero/nft designs. They do the same thing, they coat the roots with water. once the roots are wet, it doesnt matter what size of a particle of liquid is hitting it, it is allready coated anyway. the pump I assume is not breaking down the nutrient any further for the plant to take up, because that happens on a much smaller scale I thought. Just looking for your thoughts on that, Pod Racer. This is a great tutorial btw.

I have issues with the comment once your roots are wet it doesn't matter. Roots are very thin and tiny. A 20 second feed time is 10 times more than the roots need, and is in fact contraindicated.

Let's look at what happens when we get wet. There is a big difference in body temperature between standing in the rain for 2 minutes versus 20 minutes. The sooner you get out of the rain the faster you will dry. The faster roots dry, the sooner they are ready to feed again.

 

[PetFlora]

sbaegis - It has to be there, you just aren't looking hard enough or you don't see it. I'm not going to repeat myself over a topic that has already been beaten to death before.

Like stated in the begining of this thread, TAG is not emerging - It has been demonstrated time and again on this sight. There is like a 50 page thread full of arguements and re-debates, I'm not taking any bait here. If you want those answers you'll have to dig through the dirt to find it yourself - otherwise it just looks like you are trolling. Try re-reading TAG 101 again, it is there many times over.

FYI PR has been my inspiration, and his first 53 page journal my bible, but... Nothing stays the same- everything is emerging or dying. TAG has in fact grown since 2007.

Had PR and others investigated accumulators, they coiuld have further improved their grow methods. These guys figured out the 20-30 second feed times was the reason why PR (and others) were having nute issues around week 3.

As a personal use grower, I am trying my best not to add an accumulator, but I did learn that you want less than 2 second feed times. In fact, less than one second is better still.

The shorter the blast, the faster the roots dry, the sooner they are ready to feed again, and again, and again...

I am now using a Sentinel MDT-1 digital timer which is accurate at 2 seconds. I am usng the same brand pump as PR, Aquatec 8800. So far it's hanging in there although it is cycling for 2 seconds 240 times a day.

You can check out my journal to see the results over time.

Peace Out

 

[PetFlora]

Still not sold on accumulators

Still not sold on accumulators

I am sure they are beneficial for commercially oriented growers, but with about 3 weeks left before harvest, my 9 plant grow is doing just fine without it. .

I have asked repeatedly for plant pics from using an accum, but no one has done so. I have lots of pics in my journal.

What I have learned from these growers though, is you need a DEEP cycle timer like the Sentinel DRT-1 or MDT 1, which I have been using for a good part of this grow. So far no problems with my Aquatec 8800 high pressure pump (125psi) and it is cycling 240 times a day 24/7. At $90 I don't mind replacing it now and then versus all the equipment, fittings, etc needed to install an accumulator. I just read where Pod Pacer says his Aquatec pump was 3 years old and humming along

About 2/3 into this thread someone mentions tanks exploding!

 

[joefalse]

I am sure they are beneficial for commercially oriented growers, but with about 3 weeks left before harvest, my 9 plant grow is doing just fine without it. .

I have asked repeatedly for plant pics from using an accum, but no one has done so. I have lots of pics in my journal.

What I have learned from these growers though, is you need a DEEP cycle timer like the Sentinel DRT-1 or MDT 1, which I have been using for a good part of this grow. So far no problems with my Aquatec 8800 high pressure pump (125psi) and it is cycling 240 timews a day 24/7. At $90 I don't mind replacing it now and then versus all the equipment, fittings, etc needed to install an accumulator.

About 2/3 into this thread someone mentions tanks exploding!

lies and misinformation.

 

[Me2]

I take issue with your Still Not Sold On Accumulators post, an accumulator wont explode if its used correctly. A hps is capable of burning your house to the ground if its misused, maybe we should avoid those too?

The accumulator recommendation came from the guys that advised you to reduce your misting times from those recommended by Pod Racer. Anyone reading your journal can see that when you implimented the new timing regime it transformed your roots from drenched and lifeless to what they are now.

You have all the information to take your roots to the next level but if you choose to ignore it and search for non-existant alternatives to fitting an accumulator thats upto you. When you have exhausted all avenues, spent some money and come up empty, you may install one.
No doubts, a few weeks later you`ll be recommending them to everyone in your journal and taking credit for a new innovation to TAG.

Enjoy your journey of discovery.

 

[PetFlora]

Blind offers some good insight, but when it comes to feeding times, he's ALL WET! I tried his overwetting recommendations, and watched my root development go backwards toward DWC, in just four days.


3 keys for proper TAG nute delivery

1. < 1gph mist head (< 0.8 even better)
2. >50 psi
3. Less than 3 seconds feed time followed by 4-6 minute pause

Growing healthy plants in veg is fairly easy. You can feed them almost anything at a wide range of EC levels. It's when we get to flower that all the sh@t happens. Keep the sprayers on them AT LEAST 50% of the time, but I think 75% is better. Remember the importance of root zone temp. 68-70 F is ideal. Most people use chillers, but chillers aren't going to work if the spray only runs 20% of the time. That is another reason I recommend a 50-75% on time.
Don't run EC over 1.6 (800 ppm Hanna) or under 1.0 (500 ppm Hanna), and screw all the additives except for some PK at week 3-4. You'll grow healthy happy plants.
Another thing..Don't try to compensate for every little spot, yellow leaf, imperfection that you see. Remember that your plants are dying and like all of us in the end, stuff just starts to break. Put a little trust in the nutrient manufacturers and stick to the program.

 

[Me2]

Advising a 3 second on/ 4-6min off time is meaningless unless everyone uses the same nozzles,pressure and chamber size.

The max on time depends on the nozzle flowrate,which in turn depends on the pressure.The pressure also governs the droplet size and is the reason why it needs to be constant and instant. Mist coverage adds a further twist as it involves all of the above and the chamber size.
The inline relief valve idea is a non starter,it won`t react anywhere near fast enough.

 

[PetFlora]

ME2 is Right, as usual

ME2 is Right, as usual

Long time no hear!

Of course you are right, but in my journal, everything is relative to my set up.

I would hope people reading it are intelligent enough to make their own adjustments.

 

[PetFlora]

SUCH HOSTILITY!

SUCH HOSTILITY!

I take issue with your Still Not Sold On Accumulators post, an accumulator wont explode if its used correctly. A hps is capable of burning your house to the ground if its misused, maybe we should avoid those too?

The accumulator recommendation came from the guys that advised you to reduce your misting times from those recommended by Pod Racer. Anyone reading your journal can see that when you implimented the new timing regime it transformed your roots from drenched and lifeless to what they are now.

You have all the information to take your roots to the next level but if you choose to ignore it and search for non-existant alternatives to fitting an accumulator thats upto you. When you have exhausted all avenues, spent some money and come up empty, you may install one.
No doubts, a few weeks later you`ll be recommending them to everyone in your journal and taking credit for a new innovation to TAG.

Enjoy your journey of discovery.

IF you read my journal you would know that I always give credit to those before me, including you several times, though not by your UN, as you always PMd me. I even offered to let you post. So I just don't get this tongue lashing. But since you put it public...

Although you have given me excellent advice (and I have taken it, with the lone exception of spending an additional $500 that only makes my simple system considerably more complicated. And I would do it if someone, anyone, could show proof that it blows away what I am doing.

I told you in PMs that I am a pragmatic guy- KISS. I have asked you many times for proof as to how much better using an accumlator is compared to the method I am using.

You sent me a copy of my root photo telling me that I was over feeding. I told you my mist heads were aimed directly at that root. Simple to reaim it, which I did. Problem solved. THANK YOU!

Accumulator or NO? that is the question.

Allow me to define the differences as I see them:

1. It was not hard to convince me that lowering the feed time is essential to proper root development (fuzzies), so I replaced a DNe timer (25 seconds) with the Sentinel MDT-1 timer: Accurate to 2 seconds. I would say that puts me in the ball park without complicating a simple system. And withing 5 days my fishbones began to fill with fuzzies.

I am using 3 second feed times (not 20-30 seconds as per the original TAG thread) instead of your recommendation of < one second that you are able to achieve with an accumulator.

Why not 2 seconds or less? The MDT 1 is only accurate to 2 seconds, and I am giving it an extra second to repressureize the line to >50 psi. I also increased pause to offset the additionaol one second of moisture.

2. Mist delivery sans accumulator. You told me pressure bleeds out of the mist head during the pause cycle, so that when the pump comes on droplets are too large until >50 PSi is reached. Makes perfect sense, and I believe you will see where I gave you credit, ANONYMOUSLY.

Should I be called out for not attempting to find a simple solution to this too? And I have, but so far an inline low pressure relief valve is in $30 range, so I am still looking.

It seems none you accums is taking pics, or sharing them with fellow travellers. And I am sure the results are spectacular, but how much more spectacular remains the issue. But you are quick to point out its' growing superiority. WTF?

Frankly, I am shocked to see you come across this way. Hope you return to the man I met here some 6 months ago.