Trick my Pod - The complete Aeroponics primer

[Me2]

I have asked repeatedly for plant pics from using an accum, but no one has done so. I have lots of pics in my journal.

I get a little cranky when people that have offered help (directly or indirectly) get disrespected, your comment suggests that you haven`t seen any root pics of accumulator based aero or had the opportunity to compare those roots to your own.
If the accumulator based aero produced superior results it would make your stance on accumulators appear misguided.
You do seem to do your level best to discourage their use, commercial growers only, floor space issues, explosions etc. If an accumulator/solenoid offers no benefits to using just a pump/timer why bother attempting to emulate the same performance using relief valves.

 

[whythefnot]

don't know if I've mentioned this here before or not, but there's a thread at gardenscure that is undoubtedly extracting some of the useful information from this thread, and expanding in a different direction...
point is, he picked up an accumulator for like $90 or something. It doesn't have to be uber-expensive.
No plant pics, but one guy posted some root pics, and it was just stunning.

may the banter resume...

 

[PetFlora]

I get a little cranky when people that have offered help (directly or indirectly) get disrespected, your comment suggests that you haven`t seen any root pics of accumulator based aero or had the opportunity to compare those roots to your own.
If the accumulator based aero produced superior results it would make your stance on accumulators appear misguided.
You do seem to do your level best to discourage their use, commercial growers only, floor space issues, explosions etc. If an accumulator/solenoid offers no benefits to using just a pump/timer why bother attempting to emulate the same performance using relief valves.

Why would anyone add an accum unless they saw how superior it was? How many times, and how many ways can I possibly ask for you to show pics of those roots and plants in say the last 2 weeks before harvest? It seems I am, and have been, asking too much.


Here is a picture of my roots taken less than 2 weeks after reducing my feed times from 25 seconds to less than 3. Fuzzies all along each fishbone.

 

[joefalse]

don't know if I've mentioned this here before or not, but there's a thread at gardenscure that is undoubtedly extracting some of the useful information from this thread, and expanding in a different direction...
point is, he picked up an accumulator for like $90 or something. It doesn't have to be uber-expensive.
No plant pics, but one guy posted some root pics, and it was just stunning.

may the banter resume...

those same root pics and plant pics you talk about seeing on the thread at GC are the same pics this guy has seen already but pretends he hasnt. and as far as the guy at GC extracting useful info from this thread show me anyinfo hes using from this thread.
he got the idea of using the accumulator from the guy who posted the pics of the roots and plants. he got the idea of the feeding times from the same guy. he got the nute level suggestions from the same guy. he got the nozzle placement suggestions from the same guy. this thread hasnt given him any useful info that ive seen him use. Why because this thread has no useful info that can be applied to high pressure aero.

im still waiting to hear why if the accumulator selonoid setup is not nessecarry why your trying to emulate it with check valves and relief valves and line holding pressure devices.

oh and by the way petflora we all know your roots touch the bottom of the container why have we never seen a picture of the bottom of the roots and container. hiding something. oh no hes going for the pruning shears again to cut away the roots. brilliant my friend ,just brilliant.

 

[PetFlora]

Yes, a small portion of my 3ft tall plant roots do reach the bottom of my double stacked totes, which total 32 inches. As below, so above.

This grow was bag seed: I had no idea what to expect plant size. And I let them go too long in veg. Next grow is low ryder X that only gets 2 feet tall.

I only cut away a part the hammock that grew between the plants, but managed to nick a tap root. DId my plants die? No, they did not. But you make it out like they did.

Unlike Me2, I actually have a journal with lots of above and below pictures, and post everything that happens- the good and the bad, so others can learn from my mistakes.

In your second to last paragraph, you say "im still waiting to hear why if the accumulator selonoid setup is not nessecarry why your trying to emulate it with check valves and relief valves and line holding pressure devices."

My answer is simple, but it seems to escape you. Why wouldn't anyone incorporate the parts that make sense, are inexpensive, easy to install, and avoid those that don't without proof? Proof that I have asked for repeatedly.

You come across as very sarcastic, as though you know what you are talking about. Clearly, you must have an accum set up, so, show us your pics.

 

[joefalse]

My answer is simple, but it seems to escape you. Why wouldn't anyone incorporate the parts that make sense, are inexpensive, easy to install, and avoid those that don't without proof? Proof that I have asked for repeatedly.

you still havent answered the question. why do you even want to use these inexpense devices if you feel reducing the mist cycle to short high pressure blasts is not nessecary.(what an accumulator does) how do you even know that instant pressure will deliver any better results than you have now? you must feel there is some merit to short instant blasts of consistent droplet sizes or you wouldnt be trying to achieve the same thing with other devices. again why do you think shortening the mist pulse and keeping your line pressure up so you have instant pressure to the nozzles is something to strive for.

since you wont answer ill give you the reason why i feel you wont answer. because you know the instant high pressure pulse is better than your ramp up and down approach but dont want to acknowlge it for one of two reasons. either you cant afford to do it which i can respect or you dont feel you have the tech knowledge to implement it properly which i also can respect. but what i cant respect is the misinfo and this game of show me or i wont believe it. you already proved you believe it by trying to emulate it thru a different approach. good luck with those check valves.

 

[PetFlora]

RU HIGH?

RU HIGH?

My responce is in bold blue italics...

I think you are saying some of these things because you missed a step. Originally I was directed to pursue check valves as the solution to holding pressure, but was later redirected to inline pressure relief valves. When PRVs are placed as close as possible to the mist head, pressure will (should?) be maintained in the line up to that point, so, as soon as the pump comes on, it should reach >50psi (125psi pump) almost immediately. theoritically (to me at least) this should make a giant step toward closing the gap between sans accum and accum, though no one has ever shown me any grows usng an accumulator.


you still havent answered the question. why do you even want to use these inexpense devices if you feel reducing the mist cycle to short high pressure blasts is not nessecary.Please show me where I said this. If I did, why would I be doing all the things that I have to shorten the feed cycle??????

(what an accumulator does) how do you even know that instant pressure will deliver any better results than you have now? you must feel there is some merit to short instant blasts of consistent droplet sizes or you wouldnt be trying to achieve the same thing with other devices. again why do you think shortening the mist pulse and keeping your line pressure up so you have instant pressure to the nozzles is something to strive for. Because that is EXACTLY what an accumulator does.

since you wont answer ill give you the reason why i feel you wont answer. because you know the instant high pressure pulse is better than your ramp up and down approach but dont want to acknowlge it for one of two reasons. RU HIGH? hat's been my position from the start. Show me where I suggested otherwise? either you cant afford to do it which i can respect or you dont feel you have the tech knowledge to implement it properly which i also can respect. but what i cant respect is the misinfo and this game of show me or i wont believe it. you already proved you believe it by trying to emulate it thru a different approach. good luck with those check valves.[/quote] The only way you can prove anything I am trying is 'misinfo', is to prove it with pics of your accum grow. My posted pics speak for themselves.

 

[whythefnot]

those same root pics and plant pics you talk about seeing on the thread at GC are the same pics this guy has seen already but pretends he hasnt. and as far as the guy at GC extracting useful info from this thread show me anyinfo hes using from this thread.
he got the idea of using the accumulator from the guy who posted the pics of the roots and plants. he got the idea of the feeding times from the same guy. he got the nute level suggestions from the same guy. he got the nozzle placement suggestions from the same guy. this thread hasnt given him any useful info that ive seen him use. Why because this thread has no useful info that can be applied to high pressure aero.

im still waiting to hear why if the accumulator selonoid setup is not nessecarry why your trying to emulate it with check valves and relief valves and line holding pressure devices.

oh and by the way petflora we all know your roots touch the bottom of the container why have we never seen a picture of the bottom of the roots and container. hiding something. oh no hes going for the pruning shears again to cut away the roots. brilliant my friend ,just brilliant.

the reason I say he's extracted info from this thread is that this thread is mentioned, more than once I believe, as a reference in that thread. everyone there has obviously read this thread already.

from what I've seen, I wouldn't attempt HP aero without an accumulator

 

[Me2]

I see a lot of assumptions in your journal too without anything to back them up.
You say you generate 50 psi during misting but you didn`t fit a pressure gauge so how do you know?
You give nozzle specifications in your journal too but anyone that runs hp aero will tell you they are not likely to be accurate once fitted to a dynamic system.

I suggest in the interest of accuracy you measure it. Take a syringe and place it over one of your nozzles and measure exactly how much liquid it collects during one misting pulse from beginning to end..then compare it to your nozzle spec

 

[PetFlora]

As usual Me2, you are right on all points, but, as my Physics teacher used to say "As long as you are in the ball park you don't have to carry it out 6 decimals."

Until someone proves that I am not in the "ballpark" (actually implimenting my theories, and seeing the results) vs an accumulator (as you did when you sent me a root pic loaded with fuzzies proving why 25 second feed time was too long- a real eye opener, but even more so seeing that 3 seconds does not allow for fuzzies!) and possessing a relatively logical mind, combined with seeing how superior my current grow is compared to my last, I feel that my theories are paning out just fine.

Could my grow be better? No doubt, but honestly, I think the two biggest things you made me aware of was the importance of D2W and extremely low feed times.

From my nute studying, to me, the next big improvement is understanding which nutes and additives to feed and when. I am already using fulvic acid (FulPower) along with bloom nutes that have bat/seabird guano and sea minerals.

I think adding an accumulator would be icing on the cake, but it does complicate the system. I think any commercial grower should give it a go: It is for the rest of us that I look for alternatives.

Note: I have almost 20,000 journal views. The viewer can see for themselves (posted pics) if what I am doing makes sense for them. If they decide an accumulator is the way to go, they will still need everything I am using (with the expection of some inexpensive inline pressure relief valves). Now, do you follow my logic?

 

[joefalse]

the reason I say he's extracted info from this thread is that this thread is mentioned, more than once I believe, as a reference in that thread. everyone there has obviously read this thread already.

from what I've seen, I wouldn't attempt HP aero without an accumulator

i know you from several different sites and im assuming your the same person. i wasnt attacking you and you are probably right in saying this thread is mentioned in that thread at GC. id have to go thru the whole thread to see and its to long to do so ill just say maybe its mentioned but i still dont think the guy is following the advise in this thread in anyway. he was going this route with just a pump but switched half way thru the thread to an accumulator based system after he saw a system posted with one.
yes everyone on the whole internet has read this thread and that is part of the problem. everytime someone mentions hp aero they are directed to this thread and so people come here and read this info and try and implement it and end up with a lot of frustration when thier roots look no better than a low pressure system. i just want people to realize this info here is not the bible on high pressure aeroponics. most if not all the information here if followed will not give you the results that a well designed hp system will. you saw the roots at GC the guy just posted a couple days ago so you are aware of the difference in how the roots look from using an accumulator and from what you see here.
im done with trying to help in anyway or dispute with petflora. he can follow the advise here and tout his journal at every turn if he wants to while the rest of the hp world moves on to evolving stratagies. all is well with you whythefnot.

 

[Me2]

How do you know you`re are in the ballpark?
Those that are using pond pumps/sprinklers can make the aero ballpark bigger (roots in air etc) and claim its TAG. (not bashing you guys btw )
You are doing the same but to a lesser degree using different variables (ramping pressure and limited minimal timing).
I guess you could rename your journal to, "TAG (with some minor compromises that don`t affect anything)", when just by adding little more hardware..you could have "No compromise TAG"

 

[whythefnot]

i know you from several different sites and im assuming your the same person. i wasnt attacking you and you are probably right in saying this thread is mentioned in that thread at GC. id have to go thru the whole thread to see and its to long to do so ill just say maybe its mentioned but i still dont think the guy is following the advise in this thread in anyway. he was going this route with just a pump but switched half way thru the thread to an accumulator based system after he saw a system posted with one.
yes everyone on the whole internet has read this thread and that is part of the problem. everytime someone mentions hp aero they are directed to this thread and so people come here and read this info and try and implement it and end up with a lot of frustration when thier roots look no better than a low pressure system. i just want people to realize this info here is not the bible on high pressure aeroponics. most if not all the information here if followed will not give you the results that a well designed hp system will. you saw the roots at GC the guy just posted a couple days ago so you are aware of the difference in how the roots look from using an accumulator and from what you see here.
im done with trying to help in anyway or dispute with petflora. he can follow the advise here and tout his journal at every turn if he wants to while the rest of the hp world moves on to evolving stratagies. all is well with you whythefnot.

thanks for clearing that up.
your assumptions and info about the thread I mentioned are exactly correct

 

[joefalse]

here is a pic of some high pressure aeroponics roots.

 

[Me2]

The only way you can prove anything I am trying is 'misinfo', is to prove it with pics of your accum grow. My posted pics speak for themselves

Your roots have a long way to go and no way to get there

 

[PetFlora]

Me2, you crack me up.

After reading through most of the RIU plug and play, I increased my pause from 5 minutes to 9. Within 48 hours I am seeing really tiny fishbone roots coming out the sides of my root mass, AND, it seems like a lot more pistils on the buds.

Alas, the inline pressure relief valves are for 3/8 ID My lines are 3/8 OD. to be continued...

 

[Me2]

It appears you are having to compromise yet again. You make a big deal of the bacteria in your journal but have effectively doubled their waiting time due to your hardware limitations?

They need between 4-5 minutes to fully digest a meal before they are ready to feed again.

To achieve both goals you need to reduce the misting duration, which isn`t possible with just a pump so you are forced to compromise by increasing the pause time instead.

Still no nozzle flowrate measurements or even a basic system pressure reading, seems like your taking most of your cues from the RIU thread where they post pics of true aero roots.

 

[williebetmore]

My answer is simple, but it seems to escape you. Why wouldn't anyone incorporate the parts that make sense, are inexpensive, easy to install, and avoid those that don't without proof? Proof that I have asked for repeatedly.

you still havent answered the question. why do you even want to use these inexpense devices if you feel reducing the mist cycle to short high pressure blasts is not nessecary.(what an accumulator does) how do you even know that instant pressure will deliver any better results than you have now? you must feel there is some merit to short instant blasts of consistent droplet sizes or you wouldnt be trying to achieve the same thing with other devices. again why do you think shortening the mist pulse and keeping your line pressure up so you have instant pressure to the nozzles is something to strive for.

since you wont answer ill give you the reason why i feel you wont answer. because you know the instant high pressure pulse is better than your ramp up and down approach but dont want to acknowlge it for one of two reasons. either you cant afford to do it which i can respect or you dont feel you have the tech knowledge to implement it properly which i also can respect. but what i cant respect is the misinfo and this game of show me or i wont believe it. you already proved you believe it by trying to emulate it thru a different approach. good luck with those check valves.

allot of info. for sure, but i still cant recall seeing any really good yield shots. I'm jumping over to your thread now man, see if you had any luck.

 

[whythefnot]

So, as I mentioned, with some research you can get an accumulator for around $100. So why would you use other equipment, which probably costs at least $100, to try to achieve the same effect as an accumulator. Economically it still doesn't add up. If you want to go HP aero, it's the same relative expense whether you are doing a small grow or a large grow.

I don't really want to get into the argument, I just saw a few things that didn't quite add up to me

 

[Me2]

whythefnot,
Petflora could use a 5gallon tank and the pump would run just once every 3 days with his current timing and assuming his nozzle spec is accurate. The accumulator provides bonuses of longer pump life, constant pressure and instant mist start stop.
With the addition of a 12v timer and solenoid, power outage issues no longer apply unless you are very unlucky and the tank is empty as the power goes out
If your lucky and the tank is full, you will have 3 days grace before the pressure falls from 90psi to 70psi.

A check valve won`t achieve any of these things.. the choice is a no brainer.