Trick my Pod - The complete Aeroponics primer

[Dude Man]

I went with a tank for that very reason, the pump will turn on less.

also, with a tank you have instant pressure with volume behind it so it fills up the lost pressure fast,
also the new anti drip misters "the red ones" seem to hold some pressure on their own, with the "pod" shut off the water will still "splat" on you when you unscrew the mister.

i did put check valves in my system one in the rez so the pump does not pump to much air, and one before each pod's shut-off valve.

i don't think it keeps the in-line pressure 100psi, but i thought it was better than nothing.

 

[PetFlora]

One more time. It is not a check valve- it's an inline pressure relief valve, which will hold the pressure on the pump side. By placing the valves (barbed fittings) very close to the mist nozzles, there is little pressure loss, and that is all the accum does aside from "longer pump life" which remains to be seen. If I only go through a pump ($90) every 4 years it's not that big a deal TO ME, but it could be longer, a lot longer.

I never steered anyone away from using an accumujlator, I simply looked at the options and decided I would investigate them BEFORE going down the accum path.

If what I am doing (and showing the results of) doesn't float your boat, by all means, I do not think you can go wrong with an accum.

Are we done here?

 

[Me2]

Aye, pretty much.
Just wanted to say, I feel sorry for Paglia who followed your lead down the pump/timer route and is now having issues with a 6-7 second mist run-on.
I`m sure he`d be keen to hear how you manage to achieve a 2 second misting duration with no run-on and without any kind of inline valve fitted?
The truth be told, you have exactly the same issue to solve, otherwise why bother complicating things with more hardware. You could try running the pump for minus 4 seconds to compensate

 

[PetFlora]

Well, as you know my journal is a journey that has some wrong turns, several overcome due to your input.

I do not have a run-on problem, so who knows what pump he is using or how many meters of line from pump to mist heads: mine are very short. The issue I am attempting to overcome is pressure bleeding off between pump and mist heads, which causes the spittle until the line/heeads reach atomization pressure. Watching the Reptile Basics sourced heads (when the pump comes on for 2 seconds), spittle is minimal and I do not see any run-on.

I am sure you know people are not using the exact same pumps, mist heads, etc. If they are having problems they should adapt to what I am using, or at least use me as a guide. I cannot speak to problems that involve alternate equipment.

 

[blackone]

I'm wondering if you buy something like this 70 psi pump with accumulator - then all you would need would be a solenoid valve + timer? It even has a pressure gauge on the tank and isn't too expensive - around $200. It's sold for increasing water pressure in households.

 

[Me2]

Hi Blackone,
The concept of the pic you posted is ok but 70psi doesn`t seem much from a hefty pump like that. You don`t need anything too big, a small diaphragm pump is plenty good enough.
If you can get each nozzle to deliver 0.017oz during a full misting pulse, a 5 gallon accumulator tank will happily run 12 nozzles (3 minute pause) for 24 hours without the pump firing up once.

 

[PetFlora]

I copied this from RIU Plu N Play Aero- ACCUMULATOR thread

I copied this from RIU Plu N Play Aero- ACCUMULATOR thread

It might explain Paglia's run-on problem

"Either the nozzle output is greater than the spec or the spec is correct and the pulse is longer than 2 seconds or a combination of both.
It takes 3.65 seconds to deliver 8.6ml @ 8.51LPH, could the total mist pulse from start to finish be that long?

To get an accurate output figure you`d need to run a single nozzle for a known amount of time, like a full minute at max pressure. Probably best to leave that test until after harvest

Working with the new flowrate, running 2sec/10min cycles all day you`d deliver 1.3gal/day to each chamber. I`m sure its mist run-on, there`s no way your nozzles can be putting out 15.6LPH

After a bit more math, the total amount of water going through the system may be somewhere around 3.287 gals/day, hows that compare to reality?
Make that 3.361 gal/day, i geared the other figure to 9hr@10min,3hr@15min and 12hr@30mins timing split instead of 10hr,2hr,12hr.

In the interest of science.. i tested a couple of nozzles by firing them directly into a 10ml syringe using 75psi pressure and a 0.5sec pulse.
The purple netafim nozzle (flowrate tested @ 6.75LPH) delivered exactly 1ml into the syringe which is pretty close to the 0.93ml calculated figure.

As Travish has some grey netafims i tested one of those as well. The grey nozzle delivered 1.25ml into the syringe in 0.5 seconds, so i guess they deliver something like 8.6LPH @ 5 bar.

Here is the reallly interesting part, i did the same exact tests again but this time without an adv inline.

The purple nozzle delivered a shade under 3.75ml, the grey did exactly 4ml into the syringe. The adv makes a huge difference to the performance. The test setup used a 5.5" length of 1/2" bore tube between the solenoid and the nozzle. If it was longer the results would be a lot worse.

I think that solves the nozzle mystery, TF.
My 5.5" of pipe dropping from 75psi to 0psi (no adv) will deliver 2.579ml of water to the nozzle after the solenoid closes.
With a purple nozzle it equates to an extra 1.376 seconds of misting i didn`t plan on.

Putting the adv inline means the pressure in the pipe will only drop from 75psi to 26psi before the adv closes. It doesn`t sound like a big difference but it works out to a meager 0.0024ml of water being available for any run on instead of ~2.6ml.

With a purple nozzle its only an extra 0.00128 seconds added to the pulse time".

 

[PetFlora]

Blackone- got a link to it? Looks pretty cool

 

[Me2]

I`m not sure i understand the copy paste information, care to explain the highlights?

 

[Dude Man]

petflora - you should state on your journal that having the pump sized correctly, for the type and number of misters one is using is "Extremely Important" when not using a pressure tank.

I have seen many misting setups with out pressure tanks online, I am sure they work fine.

So, basically one would need to get their misters first, than have the pump sized to the style and number mister you got, or buy a package deal some were.

their is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[PetFlora]

I`m not sure i understand the copy paste information, care to explain the highlights?

I couldn't figure it out. Thought maybe you could. It does seem to discuss run-on after the pump shuts down

 

[PetFlora]

petflora - you should state on your journal that having the pump sized correctly, for the type and number of misters one is using is "Extremely Important" when not using a pressure tank.

I have seen many misting setups with out pressure tanks online, I am sure they work fine.

So, basically one would need to get their misters first, than have the pump sized to the style and number mister you got, or buy a package deal some were.

their is more than one way to skin a cat.

Well, that is going to depend on multiple factors- one being mist head gph. I think Me2 sent me a basic formula once, but for most of us, I don't think it is "that" important. Certainly if you are running multiple tables, you want to know more precisely what the max is.

From what I learned reading Pod Racer's original thread, you can run something like 64 misters (< 1gph) off one Aquatec 8800 type pump, but I don't think a 4 X 8 table needs more than 6 mist heads if they are properly spaced, and the psi output is >50 at turn on. But this is just a guess.

 

[balla420]

Sorry Kin, I forgot to render my opinion on the fogger nozzles. The Biocontrol ones are by far the best, they are specifically designed for just this application.

Is Biocontrol the name of the company that make these fog nozzles? I did a search and can't find their website, can you direct me to where i can find these? I want the best, least problematic nozzles I can find...willing to spend extra for them too. Basically I want to make it through a grow (a long grow...i prefer sativa's) without any clogging or other issues. I always give my entire system a complete cleaning in between grows, so I don't mind also cleaning the nozzles inbetween.

You don't need an accumulation tank if your pressure never exceeds your cut off limit. With a 165 psi pump the delivery should just run upwards of 60 - 80 psi using most these nozzles and if you have more than say 15 you don't really need a tank.

I've been wanting to do a TAG for a while. And this is the most confusing part to me. I don't want to have an accumulator tank and all that mess. I'v only seen a couple of TAG's prebuilt for sale and most of them are made by AgriHouse (think you mentioned these) and they are redicuously over priced. Their systems use a HP pump, accumulator, and "hydro controller" what ever that is.

But basically I want to do a smaller system...and I've noticed you have said on more than one account, pressure shouldn't be a problem when using around 15 nozzles. I was thinking about doing only 2-4 5 gallon buckets (1 plant each) with maybe 2-3 nozzles per bucket...so as low as 4 nozzles and as many as 12. Will I have pressure issues with less nozzles? Is there anyway to fix this? the only thing i could think of is maybe hook up 15-20 nozzles, and only use the 4-12 i need while keeping the remainder in the reservoir...btw, I'm planning on having a seperate reservoir -->pump-->buckets (NOT recycling nutes) so it will be a one way flow. I figure this will be best option for such a small grow that uses very little nutrients, and avoid the possible rapid ph/ppm fluctuation in the reservoir and the problem you've mentioned during the transition from veg to flower, with compounding N in the res.

 

[PetFlora]

5G buckets are small for aero. OK if you are growing a lowryder that harvests in under 70 days, otherwise your roots will get to long. Once they collect on the bottom you no longer have a TAG set up. For 2-4 @ 5G use only ONE single nozzle (<1gph) per bucket. Better to get 12-18G totes and put one plant per tote. This gives more room for the nutes to circulate in, therefore doing a better job of coating the roots.

Now that I have the correct PRV (placed very close to the nozzle assembly) I am experiencing almost zero run-on/off from the nozzles. But these are one offs from Smart Products. I would need to buy a large quantity to make them available for resale. Stay tuned.

You misunderstood the reason for D2W. The N actually changes from day (Nitrate) to night
(Ammonium). Also the ppms easily double and the pH rises, which would screw up the rez balance.

 

[MakePax]

how much is that?

 

[Dude Man]

sweet nice to here!

 

[MakePax]

k

 

[PetFlora]

MakePak. How much is what?

 

[Dude Man]

The working PRV, or at least that what I want to know! LOL

 

[guerilla415]

Heres my plan on a system for my first venture into aeroponics

2 - 20 gal reservoirs
2 - 2x4 flood trays
4 - Vortex Sprayers
1 or 2 - mist king dia. pump 125 psi
20 - 30 plants per tray
2 - 1000w lights
Dutch Master 1 Nutes plus foliar spray (also DM)

Id love to hear any thoughts/suggestions/advice etc. from the vets out there, or anyone willing to help

Thanks, happy holidays, take care and stay safe everyone

guerilla