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New seed stock prices thru the roof!!
- Thread starter JazzJazz
- Start date
Says who? The United Breeders of Cannabis Board? Don't start talking about breeder etiquette. Most Breeders don't know the meaning. Most Seedmakers that call themselves breeders, are nothing more than......what does everybody call them? Closet Hacks, Pollen Chucks? Granted there are a few Breeders still keeping it real, but for the most part it's all a ficad. You know kinda like the wizard of oz, don't pull the curtain back or you'll see the real truth. I think they get a hard on trying to be something that they are not and they get to make a few bucks doing it.RE: F2s
Breeding etiquette should follow the simple rule that F2's from another breeders stock are NOT sold. It's simply not credible to sell a rip-off of someone else's work without the original breeders consent / permission. Most F2's that circulate therefore go out as freebies... via underground collectives and online seed outlets.
RE: seed prices
Expensive genetics are usually exclusive/limited or extremely reliable like Jack Herer. The people investing in these genetics usually grow 'mother to clone' as either commercial growers or connoisseurs... so the cost is usually relevant.
Keep it real
With that being said, where's the beans at?
----says common sense. I dont know any of the breeders that are being called out here personally, but i pay attention to what is out there in public, and i have heard very little to draw the conclusion that you are drawing. as far as being a facade, well, I'M a closet pollen chucker, but i think peeps who have been doin this for over a decade dont fall in to that category. but i dont know, maybe you know these guys better than i do, and know something i dont.
---and im not pickin on ya^^^^ as i said, there is no right and wrong answer here, but i dont see that side of it. its one thing to say "i would like it better if" and another to say "this is wrong....period"
---I should stay outta this thread, i really should. misinformation and ideas that get spread around, based on speculation and people stating opinions as fact, is a dangerous and damaging thing to this, or any movement. instead of focusing energy where the real fight is. most on this thread, myself included, have NO idea what it is we are talking about. anyone on this thread has done the kinda work we are talking bout for years on end raise thier hand!
--- dont got money?, buy cheap, they are out there and they are excellent. got a lil more cash? enjoy the fruits of decades of work.
--dont see many 19 year olds driving caddy's, but by the time they are 50.....
Crush
Member
RE: F2s
Breeding etiquette should follow the simple rule that F2's from another breeders stock are NOT sold. It's simply not credible to sell a rip-off of someone else's work without the original breeders consent / permission.
Keep it real
The whole seed business is based off F2's and stealing other peoples genetics. The guilty are pretty much every breeder and seedbank.
The Neville's origional clones are all over Amsterdam. This isn't 25 years of 'hard work'. It's 25 years of passing around the same clones and breading them over and over until it becomes a one trick pony.
Not no knock Mr. Nice again, it's not against him in specific, but just an example, when Mango Haze was being grown out, L33t named his pheno's. He named them 'SSH pheno', 'Nevilles pheno', 'Skunk Pheno' more or less. It's the same stuff over and over. THC can only make up so much of the plant. You already know this. The landraces are the same landraces used over and over in Holland and have been for the last long time. Utopia Haze is basically C5 renamed and all stems from Neville cuts that all the breeders already have. Actually all the cup winners have been from the Neville cuts with few exceptions.
My red pepper seeds are $1 and go back to year 1900. But it doesn't make it more valuable seeing as the seed is a byproduct of the actual product. That is the whole point.
There is not a love for art here. These guys are legal farmers selling produce to be sold to the public.
I fully realize there are many here (and in the culture) that don't want weed legalized, who benefit in the way things are, and they want the monopolies to continue.
What I don't think they realize is the big, big money comes when these things are legalized.
Take a California breeder who does't want things to change: if weed gets legalized, all of a sudden 'Bubba' who is selling seeds online discretely is all of a sudden being approached with venture capital to open up a large farm and before he knows it he has a staff and can take 4 vacations a year and is making huge money.
The sandbanks also play a fundamental role as sales begin to sky rocket. Facts are, the more legal marijuana becomes, the more socially acceptable, the more traffic and money Gypsie makes. Despite there being a drop in seed prices over the past 10 years.
What will CHANGE, are breeders thinking they are going to charge $100 for seeds. That will be a legacy thing of the past and is already happening.
If they don't start changing their ways, people will begin to take things into their own hands and sell f2's. This is the result of charging too much for seeds.
Gov't doesn't stop immigration, all of a sudden people are taking things into their own hands at the border.
And for that person who said Nr. Nice doesn't care about profits etc. Lol.. that was one of the funniest things I've read on this forum. If he didn't care about profits, he'd give away seeds at a seed price - $1. He's a farmer whose primary business is supplying produce to coffee shops. I highly suggest you go to youtube and so a search for Shanti Baba and look at the size of their greenhouse and see their crops. Note the part where he says 'no seeds'.
To me, seeds are worthless. I'll donate them to the website or just sell them for my trouble (10 fem seeds at @ $5 or something).
What's important is the rewards and fun in growing your own crops. That's the fun thing. The seedbanks should be promoting this as the seeds are a side business for them.
Instead, they feel entitled to a +100x markup through price fixing.
And here we all sit and pretend like these guys aren't f2'ing genetics. That's doing no one a favor. And then when a couple of us come and say we want to sell/donate f2's for cheap in order to fix pricing, we get other people saying NO in order to protect the monopoly despite everyone else is doing it. And we are talking c99 and Amnesia Haze - nothing to sneeze at.
The top business man of the industry realizes his seeds should sell for no more than $50, Cannabis Cup or not. He realizes that seeds are not his main business and not an important part of his daily life in Amsterdam. He knows that things are not the same as they were 10 years ago and knows the more he lowers his prices, the more money he makes and the more we get to grow his genetics that he's sharing with everyone.
Watch his strain hunter video where they find this landrace and say 'we can give it out the people to grow and mix and send back the results'. They don't play the old legacy games of trying to keep everything a secret and are moving the industry fwd.
And doing it with f2's I might say.
That's my 2 cents and I wont be supporting the legacy business ways of the old time breeders or giving them my money.
Kirby_Tokin
Member
Anyone seen these before? quite expensive... Elephant bud
and this Euphoria
That is just sick..!!
Kirby
and this Euphoria
That is just sick..!!
Kirby
again, good points in there, stated very well and i respect your opinion crush.
---maybe its my union background, i dont know, haha. i just feel that if someone has been practicing a trade for 20 years, he/she deserves to charge more than someone knockin off f2's for a year and a half.(i dont have a problem w f2's by the way). am i crazy to think like this? a monopoly is when EVERYONE is doing it, and arent there more low priced seeds available nowadays then the dinosour high priced ones?
---maybe its my union background, i dont know, haha. i just feel that if someone has been practicing a trade for 20 years, he/she deserves to charge more than someone knockin off f2's for a year and a half.(i dont have a problem w f2's by the way). am i crazy to think like this? a monopoly is when EVERYONE is doing it, and arent there more low priced seeds available nowadays then the dinosour high priced ones?
I feel that when I make a seed purchase, I am paying for the time of all these top notch breeders and seedbanks to create and send me top quality genetics. They do all the work for me and supply cannabis seeds right to my mailbox.
What's that worth? Quite a bit in my opinion!!!
The seller has shipping costs, grow related costs and supplies, advertizing costs, taxes, and security costs. Not to mention the cost of the breeders time and knowledge that went into his work.
And we cant forget the ability of the seedbank to deliver the goods. Worth alot for sure.
The seed company only gets 60% of the profit from the sale on seedbay anyway, so they have to charge $100 just to make a $60 return on the pack of seeds. Expences eat away much of that profit.
What's that worth? Quite a bit in my opinion!!!
The seller has shipping costs, grow related costs and supplies, advertizing costs, taxes, and security costs. Not to mention the cost of the breeders time and knowledge that went into his work.
And we cant forget the ability of the seedbank to deliver the goods. Worth alot for sure.
The seed company only gets 60% of the profit from the sale on seedbay anyway, so they have to charge $100 just to make a $60 return on the pack of seeds. Expences eat away much of that profit.
Good day,all.
Interesting thread.
Here's some of a breeder's perspective.
Firstly,there's wholesale and retail.
A breeder doesn't get close to retail in this business.
Seeds vary in markup from retailer to retailer.
Shop as best you can to get the best deal,it's a competitive market,to a certain degree.
Seed Boutique daily shops competitors and keeps their rates the lowest,or they match viable offers,I believe.
(I know I'm exclusive,what can I say?)
Prices have raised because the worldwide economy is in the shitter and costs associated with doing business have risen exponentially over time,as well as legal crackdowns worldwide causing this business to continue to have to be conducted in the dark.
For my part,Reservoir has released a shitload of exceptional,inexpensive genetics over the years,including the famous Double Strawberry Diesel,so I have absolutely no issues charging +$100USD (retail,I don't see near $100) for ten seeds from a well planned and executed hybrid from my well-documented stable of award-winning plants.
If I could produce on a "normal" crop scale,prices would drop,dramatically. I can't,they won't.
I know that top shelf herb goes for +$600USD in some areas in the states,including Cali,so a hundred or two hundred bucks versus the return doesn't leave anybody proficient with a grow light and with a calculator any room to complain about seed prices. Even only growing to smoke,as I'm sure we all do,makes great seeds a steal,whatever the initial investment.
Seeds are an investment-the cornerstone of your whole project,and should be treated as such.
(You can pay a shitty guide to pack your parachute,or you can pay a pro. Your choice,your jump.)
In my book,if people want to complain about seed prices,then they should do it themselves,and see how it turns out for them,or buy "cheap" seeds and live with the results,hopefully favorable.
More,later,I'm sure.
Cheers!
Interesting thread.
Here's some of a breeder's perspective.
Firstly,there's wholesale and retail.
A breeder doesn't get close to retail in this business.
Seeds vary in markup from retailer to retailer.
Shop as best you can to get the best deal,it's a competitive market,to a certain degree.
Seed Boutique daily shops competitors and keeps their rates the lowest,or they match viable offers,I believe.
(I know I'm exclusive,what can I say?)
Prices have raised because the worldwide economy is in the shitter and costs associated with doing business have risen exponentially over time,as well as legal crackdowns worldwide causing this business to continue to have to be conducted in the dark.
For my part,Reservoir has released a shitload of exceptional,inexpensive genetics over the years,including the famous Double Strawberry Diesel,so I have absolutely no issues charging +$100USD (retail,I don't see near $100) for ten seeds from a well planned and executed hybrid from my well-documented stable of award-winning plants.
If I could produce on a "normal" crop scale,prices would drop,dramatically. I can't,they won't.
I know that top shelf herb goes for +$600USD in some areas in the states,including Cali,so a hundred or two hundred bucks versus the return doesn't leave anybody proficient with a grow light and with a calculator any room to complain about seed prices. Even only growing to smoke,as I'm sure we all do,makes great seeds a steal,whatever the initial investment.
Seeds are an investment-the cornerstone of your whole project,and should be treated as such.
(You can pay a shitty guide to pack your parachute,or you can pay a pro. Your choice,your jump.)
In my book,if people want to complain about seed prices,then they should do it themselves,and see how it turns out for them,or buy "cheap" seeds and live with the results,hopefully favorable.
More,later,I'm sure.
Cheers!
there ya go, i know for fact that well grown stinky potent bud brings 650 a zip in denver, all day long. 100 a pack aint squat when you can get 2 zips a plant indooors.
the wankin over seed prices has been goin on since god knows when. and it will continue as it has all these years.
200, 300 per pack aint all that bad, back in the day seed went 100 to 1000s on cbay, and the seed was bought up, and pretty fast.
imo your just wastin your breath, prices have never went down, due to grower bitchin, lol.
were all human, and we all want, sometimes ya just cant have.
CBF
1) Or even four+ ounces a plant.
(Or even 2+ lbs./plant,outdoors!!)
2) And they still do,at SeedBay. A shitload of mine have finished +$300 in the past several months,and I've seen 'em finish close to a grand-and they will,if given the chance,again.
The market is out there,and doing very well,contrary to what a small number of disgruntled people might say.
I know a number of growers (including myself!) who will spend whatever it takes to get releases that interest them,money be damned.
Here's a little secret for those of you who are (seemingly) in the dark:
People who are successful at what they do figure risks,costs,and benefits before they proceed with projects.
3) And they never,ever will-due to bitching.
Good to see you around CBF,your more-frequent commentary is missed hereabouts.
Cheers!
K
kittykronic
hi there CBF, we're from golden, moved about 3 years ago, but my family still lives there and when we go visit i always grab some to take back home....i never paid $650 a zip ever..try going to boulder around CU better quality and much cheaper try $350- 400 a zip thier for chronic..happy easter everyone ..peace-out
right on, im on the western slope, everything from here goes to denver, my distrubitor, lol, sells to ........well i guess you could say upscale clients. 600 to 650 is the norm. avg over here on the WS is 400 a zip. we dont dork around sellin on the street, we have the same customers we have had for years, and we dont take on new peeps unless recommended by our regular guys, and thats few and far between.i hate to have to buy weed, again that aint happenin very often either, lol.
thanks for chimmin in
CBF
I have been on different pot forums and such for about 10 years, growing on and off for 16 years.
I have Gathered a large amount of seeds through contests, purchases and trades.
I have a copy of every nirvana strain ever made, because they where so cheap.
I try to grow out least expensive strains and save the more expensive strains for when i know i will be growing somewhere longer then a 1/2 a year.
Here is my experience,
Cheap strains grew better 2 out 3 times.
Never had a cheap strain hermie .
I have had expensive strains hermie.
I personally have never grown a plant that could match the potency of Shiskaberry X C99
( I won for designing the Icon for Overdrive on CC forums about 6 or 7 years ago. So technically it was free and i cant compare it to cheap or expensive.)
Same thing goes for Heath Robinsons C4 X Black Russian the quality is amazing, again a freebie from Dr.chronic
Then i can grow out something like NL5 x BB from Nirvana ($15) and people love it just as much, as a more semi-expensive strain like Stonehedge from Sag ($75) !
So basically for me the best strains i have ever grown SO FAR, have been free.
Personally if someone payed $300 for a pack of 10 seeds, i would have said they where High !
I have Gathered a large amount of seeds through contests, purchases and trades.
I have a copy of every nirvana strain ever made, because they where so cheap.
I try to grow out least expensive strains and save the more expensive strains for when i know i will be growing somewhere longer then a 1/2 a year.
Here is my experience,
Cheap strains grew better 2 out 3 times.
Never had a cheap strain hermie .
I have had expensive strains hermie.
I personally have never grown a plant that could match the potency of Shiskaberry X C99
( I won for designing the Icon for Overdrive on CC forums about 6 or 7 years ago. So technically it was free and i cant compare it to cheap or expensive.)
Same thing goes for Heath Robinsons C4 X Black Russian the quality is amazing, again a freebie from Dr.chronic
Then i can grow out something like NL5 x BB from Nirvana ($15) and people love it just as much, as a more semi-expensive strain like Stonehedge from Sag ($75) !
So basically for me the best strains i have ever grown SO FAR, have been free.
Personally if someone payed $300 for a pack of 10 seeds, i would have said they where High !
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cannabowl : The should isn't always the would, could, does of what happens. If you know what I's saying
RE: Prices
Done a few comparative searches on price of genetics 'now' and 'then' online and from old catalogues. Over the past decade the same genetics maybe went up 20% topps.
Considering the breeders n seed co.s have maintained/preserved these same genetics for the past 10 years or more now,, and inflation,,, that's not bad growing.
In some cases the prices went down... after converting from guilders, to euros, to pounds ...
RE: Prices
Done a few comparative searches on price of genetics 'now' and 'then' online and from old catalogues. Over the past decade the same genetics maybe went up 20% topps.
Considering the breeders n seed co.s have maintained/preserved these same genetics for the past 10 years or more now,, and inflation,,, that's not bad growing.
In some cases the prices went down... after converting from guilders, to euros, to pounds ...
Arguably the best haze hybrid available in 1990 - Nl x Hz from the Seedbank. No argument that it could be mentioned in the same breath as any of the top 5 indoor/outdoor/commercial/headstash sativas available to purchase as seeds. Still with me? $100us for (10) seeds. $10/seed. In 1990. The dow was ~3k. Cars were leasing for 99/mo. Gas was 90 cents a gallon. Housing was less than 1/2 the cost of what it is now. Property and business taxes were lower in the states as a collective %. $100 bought approximately $250 worth of goods in 2009 dollars. STILL WITH ME???? Ok, you could go to the grocery store with $100 then, and walk out with 2 baskets worth of groceries... 2 baskets today cost $250...
Fast forward 19 years. I know, many of you were not even born in 1990, so it may be difficult to understand how the same $100 bill was worth so much more. It was, trust an older person.
In 2009, SSH is available from MrNice. Arguably the best practical sativa available. No argument that it can be put in the same breath as the top 5 'practical' sativas available in seed form. It is ~$160 dollars a pack from what I have read here. A pack gives 18 seeds. With me? $160 for (18) seeds, or $8.89/seed.
Sooo. 19 years later, and the same $100 bill buys slightly MORE seeds, because the unit price (price per seed) had fallen 10%+. THE PRICE HAS DROPPED 10%. WTF????
Sorry.
What does $10 get you in 2009? Here is what it bought in 1990:
3/4 tank of gas.
8 packs of cigarettes.
3 assorted sixpacks, or a 30 and a half.
McDonalds for 3+ people (there was no dollar menu. a dollar for a cheeseburger was a lot. Dollars (and 10dollars) bought more.)
I understand why the world has a credit/banking/finance crisis, and why people feel like slaves to the financial machine. This thread has brought to life the utter stupidity of the average 'young consumer'. Inflation, look it up. Unit price, look it up. Adjusted dollar, look it up...
Was: $10/seed, no guarantee/cust support
Is: $9/seed, whith guarantee/cust support.
In between, the dollar value dropped 50%+...
Ball don't lie.
Fast forward 19 years. I know, many of you were not even born in 1990, so it may be difficult to understand how the same $100 bill was worth so much more. It was, trust an older person.
In 2009, SSH is available from MrNice. Arguably the best practical sativa available. No argument that it can be put in the same breath as the top 5 'practical' sativas available in seed form. It is ~$160 dollars a pack from what I have read here. A pack gives 18 seeds. With me? $160 for (18) seeds, or $8.89/seed.
Sooo. 19 years later, and the same $100 bill buys slightly MORE seeds, because the unit price (price per seed) had fallen 10%+. THE PRICE HAS DROPPED 10%. WTF????
Sorry.
What does $10 get you in 2009? Here is what it bought in 1990:
3/4 tank of gas.
8 packs of cigarettes.
3 assorted sixpacks, or a 30 and a half.
McDonalds for 3+ people (there was no dollar menu. a dollar for a cheeseburger was a lot. Dollars (and 10dollars) bought more.)
I understand why the world has a credit/banking/finance crisis, and why people feel like slaves to the financial machine. This thread has brought to life the utter stupidity of the average 'young consumer'. Inflation, look it up. Unit price, look it up. Adjusted dollar, look it up...
Was: $10/seed, no guarantee/cust support
Is: $9/seed, whith guarantee/cust support.
In between, the dollar value dropped 50%+...
Ball don't lie.
Yeah.....sad really is'nt it?.....as life goes by we usually all end up paying more for less...not so the case with good seeds...
I can remember when a big loaf of bread cost 1 shilling and five-pence half-penny...(about 10 cents).......it cost 6 pennies to get into a movie house......and petrol was about 5 shillings a gallon...
