Microorganisms for soil - recommend me a good product

[GrayZone]

Case closed.

Bought a 100g pack for 7 euros, which is a good deal compared to the stuff in grow shops.

It contains unspecified Mycos and Rhizobacteria. If Mycos don't work after all, rhizobacteria seem to be a useful addition to the soil. The girl selling it said she heard back from both olive growers and hemp growers, both reporting good results using the product.

I'll mix some worm castings in BioBizz' light mix, BioCanna as fertilizer, and Hesi's SuperVit for some amino acids, vitamins, and all that jazz. Add to that the Myco and Rhizo crew and plants should be happy in that regard.

About rhizobacteria: "Plant growth-promoting rhizobacteria (PGPR) are the rhizosphere bacteria that can enhance plant growth by a wide variety of mechanisms like phosphate solubilization, siderophore production, biological nitrogen fixation, rhizosphere engineering, production of 1-Aminocyclopropane-1-carboxylate deaminase (ACC), quorum sensing (QS) signal interference and inhibition of biofilm formation, phytohormone production, exhibiting antifungal activity, production of volatile organic compounds (VOCs), induction of systemic resistance, promoting beneficial plant-microbe symbioses, interference with pathogen toxin production etc. The potentiality of PGPR in agriculture is steadily increasing as it offers an attractive way to replace the use of chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and other supplements. Growth-promoting substances are likely to be produced in large quantities by these rhizosphere microorganisms that influence indirectly on the overall morphology of the plants."

 

[GrayZone]

The Fungus is Amongus!

Sounds like a zombie apocalypse movie title.

 

[KIS]

Read my posts, over decades of growing. That pot is in a MicroKote'd pot. There is no root spin out. I trialed the use of root pruning systems for cannabis years ago using Griffin's Spin-Out coated conventional black nursery pots. Do a search and you'll find plenty of my threads or references. https://www.google.com/search?q=+Spin+out+Uncle+Ben's+cannabis+root+pruning&client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=573602636&ei=6fUrZYSaE8C7qtsPmcWDoAU&ved=0ahUKEwjEsr3IoPiBAxXAnWoFHZniAFQQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=+Spin+out+Uncle+Ben's+cannabis+root+pruning&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAaAhgBIisgU3BpbiBvdXQgVW5jbGUgQmVuJ3MgY2FubmFiaXMgcm9vdCBwcnVuaW5nMggQIRigARiLAzIIECEYoAEYiwMyCBAhGKABGIsDMggQIRigARiLA0i2YFDREVi5V3ABeACQAQCYAZEBoAHLC6oBBDIuMTG4AQPIAQD4AQHCAggQABiiBBiwA8ICBRAAGKIE4gMEGAEgQYgGAZAGAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

I build small (3 gal.) to large (100 gal.) bottomless root pruning "pots" using a roll of RootBuilder for my greenhouse tropical fruit trees. For example, in this photo I have cut the cables tieing the ends together in order to add 2 or 3 panels, expanding the container of a Moro blood orange. Notice the only prominent roots are a few large ones at the bottom growing into my native clay loam.

View attachment 18906151

Again, the fungi need to time to come out of dormancy, aka activate and become one with the root system. That is why the application is recommended for perennials. You just don't have the time frame of growing a plant say....3-6 months to set up a good filament colony.

My root systems are massive and efficient. Some examples over the years with cannabis.

Griffin's SpinOut affect. This was a Zamal gifted to me by Gypsy years ago.

View attachment 18906154

2002, Griffin's experiment. Very dense, fibrous root system.

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2010, field grown cannabis in a pot. You have to literally bounce this rootball hard against the ground to knock off any remaining soil.

View attachment 18906157

RootBuilder. This avocado tree was grafted in 2012. It is so vigorous that I have to top it at least twice a year to keep it under 16' tall. Cados are rich and creamy.

View attachment 18906158

What I use:

View attachment 18906162

Myco treated roots taken out of a root pruning pot (MicroKote). This is a Deep Chunk male last April.

View attachment 18906164

View attachment 18906152

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben,

Endomycorrhizal fungi (which is what infects cannabis) is not visible without microscope staining. Your above microscope photo is not of endomycorrhizal fungi.

Mycorrhizae

Not everyone knows that plant roots have symbiotic relationships with certain types of fungi. These mycorrhizae help the plant absorb nutrients from the soil that are otherwise difficult to obtain and often provide some protection against soil-borne diseases. In exchange the plant suppliesfood...

hort.extension.wisc.edu

"Endomycorrhiza, on the other hand, invade the plant’s roots and develop entirely within the plant."

Also, the timeline on infection is much shorter and has nothing to do with a plant being perennial or annual. Many commercial crops use mycorrhizal fungi in their production and have shorter lifespans than cannabis. If you check out the podcast link I shared in this thread, Dr. Yoram Kapulnik from the Volcani Institute, who is a mycorrhiza scientist, stated that infected occurs in a matter of days and you can see visible results in plant health within 2-3 weeks.

 

[GrayZone]

Many commercial crops use mycorrhizal fungi in their production...

...that infected occurs in a matter of days and you can see visible results in plant health within 2-3 weeks.

That's what that girl, who sold me the product, told me. She is an M.S. in agriscience, so it seems she could know a thing or two.
Basically, she said that their customers are various commercial crop producers, from olive orchards and vineyards to veggie and hemp growers. Many of them reported great results, no matter the crop they were growing.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

I agree except for lolipoping and pruning some small branches to promote better airflow. i still lolipop my plants and take off all the popcorn buds on lower stem and inside the plant so theres more airflow inside, while keeping the fan

I do the same thing. In the basement environment where the production tents are is quite humid, leading to problems with botrytis and PM. I use a EC fan below the canopy to provide circulation to the branches:

 

[CharlesU Farley]

RootTrapper, RootMaker brand. Too much maintenance, they dry out too fast.

View attachment 18906165

That has not been my experience, they dry out fast because the roots are actually consuming more water because they're not root bound.

I'm almost afraid to ask, because I refuse to get involved in arguing back and forth about who did what and who was who back in the "good old days" , but there was a sock puppet using the Uncle Ben nym a year or two ago that I'm pretty sure wasn't the real Uncle Ben.

If you're the _real_ Uncle Ben from back in the day, what was the nym you used on adpc and what was the different nym you used on Vic's BCGA website?

Hard for me to believe that the Uncle Ben I'm familiar with, who knew all about getting proxied up with remailers for security, would post photos here on IC with full GPS info.

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

I do the same thing. In the basement environment where the production tents are is quite humid, leading to problems with botrytis and PM. I use a EC fan below the canopy to provide circulation to the branches:

View attachment 18906321

Some sexy looking ladies, love how you trained them, its the best that way. even outdoors. Kool Blog btw

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Some sexy looking ladies, love how you trained them, its the best that way. even outdoors. Kool Blog btw

Didn't train them, they grow that way naturally for me. I haven't topped, fim'd, lst'd, or done anything else abusive to cannabis, which is a living thing, in over 20 years now.

Me and the girls came to an agreement... they grow how I want them to grow and I don't cut/hack or otherwise abuse them.

And thank you, it's clear you have an inquiring mind!

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

That has not been my experience, they dry out fast because the roots are actually consuming more water because they're not root bound.

I'm almost afraid to ask, because I refuse to get involved in arguing back and forth about who did what and who was who back in the "good old days" , but there was a sock puppet using the Uncle Ben nym a year or two ago that I'm pretty sure wasn't the real Uncle Ben.

If you're the _real_ Uncle Ben from back in the day, what was the nym you used on adpc and what was the different nym you used on Vic's BCGA website?

Hard for me to believe that the Uncle Ben I'm familiar with, who knew all about getting proxied up with remailers for security, would post photos here on IC with full GPS info.

Yes, the real Uncle Ben, at your service. Lots of folks have ripped off my handle, my posts/info, and once in a while my pics over about 25 years of cannabis forums I've participated in - Overgrow, Cannabis World, Planet Ganja, Roll It Up and others. That's just the cheese factor when it comes to this hobby.

The old handle you may be referring to was Kip way back then. I also posted at the first, the oldest cannabis.com and with tongue in cheek went by the name of Uncle Bendejo, a spoof of the latino "pendejo".

pH an avid hydro grower at ADPC and I used to tangle unrelentlessly. He called me a "rogue" LOL. His way was the only way versus my organic growing drills. Remember Rachet aka Flick? My favorite troll. And yes we did PGP (Erliquin and I), secured remailers, etc. but times have changed. Cannabis growing is pretty much a non event these days with most U.S. states.

Anyway, enough of this nostalgia.... https://www.gardenmyths.com/mycorrhizae-fungi-inoculant-products/







Uncle Ben

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

OLD pix when I came up with the technique to create 2 or 4 main colas instead of the usual one. Over a million views last time I checked that massive thread at RIU. This was a Bros Grimm In-Out mix seedling I bought thru Ron at Heaven's stairway. I paid something like $10 for 10 seeds. I still have some of those. They must be 25 years old by now. I've successfully germed my own C99 seeds backcrossed stuff that was 20 years old seed. Kept them in a fridge.

I grew under HPS only, 20 years or so ago. Still remember all that hype about the need for "da blue spectrum man" - using a MH bulb.

4 main colas at harvest. Fans just clipped off.

Sensi Skunk double cola just before harvest. Leaves stayed on then until harvest and they still do! Most folks can't retain leaves with a 8-12 week flowering routine. They just don't get it.

4 main cola structure.....but I digress.

Grow hard,
Uncle Ben

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

Yes, the real Uncle Ben, at your service. Lots of folks have ripped off my handle, my posts/info, and once in a while my pics over about 25 years of cannabis forums I've participated in - Overgrow, Cannabis World, Planet Ganja, Roll It Up and others. That's just the cheese factor when it comes to this hobby.

The old handle you may be referring to was Kip way back then. I also posted at the first, the oldest cannabis.com and with tongue in cheek went by the name of Uncle Bendejo, a spoof of the latino "pendejo".

pH an avid hydro grower at ADPC and I used to tangle unrelentlessly. He called me a "rogue" LOL. His way was the only way versus my organic growing drills. Remember Rachet aka Flick? My favorite troll. And yes we did PGP (Erliquin and I), secured remailers, etc. but times have changed. Cannabis growing is pretty much a non event these days with most U.S. states.

Anyway, enough of this nostalgia.... https://www.gardenmyths.com/mycorrhizae-fungi-inoculant-products/

View attachment 18906450

View attachment 18906452

View attachment 18906454

Uncle Ben View attachment 18906452

This is the same gardenmyths site, i got into a debate with Robert a couple years back about glyphosate as he supports it use, and said it was a not bad for you soil life. I stopped following his site as I lost faith in him after that.

The Truth About Roundup and Glyphosate - That Every Gardener Should Know

Gardeners are still being misinformed about the danagers of Roundup and glyphosate. This post looks at the truth about this common herbicide.

www.gardenmyths.com

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

This is the same gardenmyths site, i got into a debate with Robert a couple years back about glyphosate as he supports it use, and said it was a not bad for you soil life. I stopped following his site as I lost faith in him after that.

The Truth About Roundup and Glyphosate - That Every Gardener Should Know

Gardeners are still being misinformed about the danagers of Roundup and glyphosate. This post looks at the truth about this common herbicide.

www.gardenmyths.com

He's right. Been using glyphosate for 40 years + the old house, on my farm, around the house, in the greenhouse, fence lines, road.....you name it. My soil life is fine. Glyphosate does no harm if the label is followed.

Confirmation Bias aint cool dude. https://agrilifetoday.tamu.edu/2019/12/10/glyphosate-myths-facts-addressed/

“Nothing is guaranteed to be 100% safe,” Nolte said. “But glyphosate is the most studied chemical in use today. None of the scientific studies have been able to definitively tie glyphosate to the cancer risks it’s been tied to.”

He said studies show the relative toxicity of glyphosate is just slightly higher than Vitamin B2 and far lower than Vitamin D3.

Uncle Ben

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

Edit: Deleted comments before this, even though we have different opinions on the matter i do not wish to continue any disagreements past this point with a veteran member of the cannabis community like yourself.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Yes, the real Uncle Ben, at your service. Lots of folks have ripped off my handle, my posts/info, and once in a while my pics over about 25 years of cannabis forums I've participated in - Overgrow, Cannabis World, Planet Ganja, Roll It Up and others. That's just the cheese factor when it comes to this hobby.

The old handle you may be referring to was Kip way back then. I also posted at the first, the oldest cannabis.com and with tongue in cheek went by the name of Uncle Bendejo, a spoof of the latino "pendejo".

pH an avid hydro grower at ADPC and I used to tangle unrelentlessly. He called me a "rogue" LOL. His way was the only way versus my organic growing drills. Remember Rachet aka Flick? My favorite troll. And yes we did PGP (Erliquin and I), secured remailers, etc. but times have changed. Cannabis growing is pretty much a non event these days with most U.S. states.

Anyway, enough of this nostalgia.... https://www.gardenmyths.com/mycorrhizae-fungi-inoculant-products/

View attachment 18906450

View attachment 18906452

View attachment 18906454

Uncle Ben

Correct answers! Ratchet and Edith Killed Two Birds With One Stone but never got it published. I liked 'em myself, along with NPKaye and Ol' Ketchup Lungs.

And we both got seeds from Jock. <vbseg> See here:

Interconnected World

But ya gotta shit can that GPS/EXIF data on the photos you post though, growing ain't legal where you are and it's not paranoia because they are _still_ out to get you. <g>

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Edit: Deleted comments before this, even though we have different opinions on the matter i do not wish to continue any disagreements past this point with a veteran member of the cannabis community like yourself.

Feel free to disagree with Uncle Ben or me or Gypsy Nirvana or anyone else on this forum. There isn't anybody who knows it all, everybody's experience and environment are different, and there's always more than one way to accomplish what you're trying to do with cannabis.

There's only one thing two experienced cannabis developers can agree on... and that's what the third one is doing wrong.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Correct answers! Ratchet and Edith Killed Two Birds With One Stone but never got it published. I liked 'em myself, along with NPKaye and Ol' Ketchup Lungs.

And we both got seeds from Jock. <vbseg> See here:

Interconnected World

But ya gotta shit can that GPS/EXIF data on the photos you post though, growing ain't legal where you are and it's not paranoia because there's still out to get you. <g>

Jock, hah! He was a slow as Xmas so when I got this card I about died. Couldn't find the seeds they were so well hidden. Remember?



My avatar was from one of his seeds!

Good memories mi amigo.

Tio

 

[xtsho]

Engineering Mycorrhizal Symbioses to Alter Plant Metabolism and Improve Crop Health

Creating sustainable bioeconomies for the 21st century relies on optimizing the use of biological resources to improve agricultural productivity and create new products. Arbuscular mycorrhizae (phylum Glomeromycota) form symbiotic relationships with over 80% of vascular plants. In return for...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[Ca++]

BioBizz light mix, isn't broken. Trying to fix it, seems unwise.

Most of the things spoke of, are falling behind in studies. It's Bacillus amyloliquefaciens m727 that farmers use by the sack, and we get by the teaspoon for more money. It does the do, but is mainly used against fungus.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35390741/

 

[GrayZone]

A bit more on the topic..

From "Mycorrhizal Fungi: Beneficial Microbes for Increased Plant Health", Miranda Duschack, Small Farm Specialist, Lincoln University

"According to Jeff Lowenfels an estimated 80% of plants have a symbiotic relationship with endomycorrhizal fungi. These are primarily annual plants, including the vegetables grown in our gardens and farms..."

https://rvpadmin.cce.cornell.edu/pdf/veg_edge/pdf5_pdf.pdf

 

[GrayZone]