Microorganisms for soil - recommend me a good product

[Verdant Whisperer]

Alright, so I'll save some 13 bucks on fungi that apparently don't work.

That's the industry problem, hard to know what is marketing and BS and what actually works.

For sure, if its a fresh source and your not short on rent or food, itd be worth 13 dollars to test 1 plant vs another or 2 clones and see if it makes a difference. best advice is just stay away from any cannabis specific product if you want to save money.

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

Root structures are the same whether pure sativas or indicas.

I don't want to get into a debate over this b/c im not 100% sure but based on the plant hormones im betting there different, and i never payed attention before this conversation, but next time i pull a sativa and indica plant im going to compare roots just to see. itll be harder to get a true representation in a rootbound pot to compare compared to a plant inground.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Alright, so I'll save some 13 bucks on fungi that apparently don't work.

That's the industry problem, hard to know what is marketing and BS and what actually works.

Almost every product marketed specifically for cannabis has one specific purpose... to separate you from your money.

Here are some roots that haven't seen any bullshit additives, enzymes, biologicals, or any of that other over-marketed over hyped bullshit, only water and Peter's/Jacks 20/20/20:



As long as you're using fabric containers, all you really need is water and fertilizer.

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

For hydroponics or chemical fertilizers, its probably a waste to spend money on inoculants as the plant food doesn't have to be broken down and made available via your microbes, but if using organic style and you have viable and fresh microbes there scientifically proven to make a difference.

 

[GrayZone]

Another plot twist in Mico Saga!

I found a small local Mico business. Called her and asked about the efficiency of micos on the annual plants vs perennial plants. She told me that one kind of fungi is not effective with annual plants cos those fungi need the kind of roots that perennial plants have in order to do their thing. However, the other species of fungi work well on both annual and perennial plants. That's probably what @KIS was saying in his reply(endo vs ecto fungi).

At 7 bucks per 100 grams, it's worth a try.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Another plot twist in Mico Saga!

I found a small local Mico business. Called her and asked about the efficiency of micos on the annual plants vs perennial plants. She told me that one kind of fungi is not effective with annual plants cos those fungi need the kind of roots that perennial plants have in order to do their thing. However, the other species of fungi work well on both annual and perennial plants. That's probably what @KIS was saying in his reply(endo vs ecto fungi).

At 7 bucks per 100 grams, it's worth a try.

You're better off using Dyna-Gro or Osmocote Indoor-Outdoor Plus, either the 5-6 month or 7-8. Os is all I used on my last cannabis garden. Been using it on tropical fruit trees, veggies, new ag field planting for forever.

There are no miracles, only complete nutrition. Cannabis does not have any special needs except to support good amount of foliage and roots. Rest will come, IF, you take care of those other units and stop such dumbass practices as defoliation.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

For hydroponics or chemical fertilizers, its probably a waste to spend money on inoculants as the plant food doesn't have to be broken down and made available via your microbes, but if using organic style and you have viable and fresh microbes there scientifically proven to make a difference. View attachment 18905453

Ammonical N sources such as urea, blood meal or ammonium sulfate need to be broken down by microbes into a nitrate form for uptake.

UB

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

and stop such dumbass practices as defoliation.

I agree except for lolipoping and pruning some small branches to promote better airflow. i still lolipop my plants and take off all the popcorn buds on lower stem and inside the plant so theres more airflow inside, while keeping the fan leaves on that feed the buds, and if theres two branches touching i ussualy cut the smaller one, so when it nugs up there not sweating on top of each other.

Ammonical N sources such as urea, blood meal or ammonium sulfate need to be broken down by microbes into a nitrate form for uptake.

UB

Didn't know this, Thanks for heads up Uncle Ben.

 

[GrayZone]

.... and stop such dumbass practices as defoliation.

Ya, I don't get why people think it's a good idea to chop off those power plants aka leaves.

You could make a case for it in a SCROG setup, to get rid of everything that is below the net and doesn't get any direct light. Besides that, overdo it with a plant grown from a fem seed and you might see some dicks in your roses, if you know what I mean...

 

[xtsho]

Alright, so I'll save some 13 bucks on fungi that apparently don't work.

That's the industry problem, hard to know what is marketing and BS and what actually works.

Consider most everything targeting cannabis growers to be marketing BS. Cannabis is not some special plant that has different requirements than other plants requiring all these products that are available.

There are much more difficult plants to grow than cannabis yet they don't need a dozen bottles of nonsense to grow and thrive.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Ya, I don't get why people think it's a good idea to chop off those power plants aka leaves.

They are drawn to believing forum hype, not what makes a plant tick.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Consider most everything targeting cannabis growers to be marketing BS. Cannabis is not some special plant that has different requirements than other plants requiring all these products that are available.

There are much more difficult plants to grow than cannabis yet they don't need a dozen bottles of nonsense to grow and thrive.

Exactly. I've been gardening for most of my 74 years on this earth and not once have I ordered or used anything other than HID or LED lights to grow pot sourced from cannabis/hydroponic stores. For example, few will use the best food available - Dyna-Gro. I can assume it's because they are not American growers and don't have access to it OR they've allowed themselves to be sucked into the marketing BS.

Don't get me wrong. There are plenty of ways to do this thing and I've used dozens of foods over the decades - Peters, Scott's brands and such.

My specialty is using systems that promote massive volumes of roots. Soil chemistry and plant nutrition are second nature to me.

 

[GenghisKush]

For hydroponics or chemical fertilizers, its probably a waste to spend money on inoculants as the plant food doesn't have to be broken down and made available via your microbes, but if using organic style and you have viable and fresh microbes there scientifically proven to make a difference. View attachment 18905453

mycos also improve rate of transpiration, so i think mycorrhizae isn't a waste of money in hydroponics (only my opinion)

 

[KIS]

Do you see any networking in the rootball? No you don't. Maybe the 2 products I applied to the rootball are dead. I store my stuff in the fridge and use it ASAP, so, hoo nose?

View attachment 18904937

You wouldn't be able to visually see anything anyway. You could compare against a control, but otherwise you would need to use a staining technique with a microscope to view endomycorrhizal infection.

This plant is due for transplanting though. Best if you can catch it before the roots start circling the container to avoid root girdling. Looks healthy.

 

[KIS]

Another plot twist in Mico Saga!

I found a small local Mico business. Called her and asked about the efficiency of micos on the annual plants vs perennial plants. She told me that one kind of fungi is not effective with annual plants cos those fungi need the kind of roots that perennial plants have in order to do their thing. However, the other species of fungi work well on both annual and perennial plants. That's probably what @KIS was saying in his reply(endo vs ecto fungi).

At 7 bucks per 100 grams, it's worth a try.

Ecto mycorrhizal fungi primarily only form a symbiotic relationship with conifers. They are just easier to culture and the labels are misleading to growers because they show much higher spore counts when they are added to a label. BUT they don't actually increase the amount of mycorrhizal fungi that truly works with your plants. It has nothing to do with annual vs perennial. Endo forms a relationship with fruit trees, tomatoes, cannabis, lettuce, etc....

 

[GenghisKush]

.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

You wouldn't be able to visually see anything anyway. You could compare against a control, but otherwise you would need to use a staining technique with a microscope to view endomycorrhizal infection.

This plant is due for transplanting though. Best if you can catch it before the roots start circling the container to avoid root girdling. Looks healthy.

Read my posts, over decades of growing. That pot is in a MicroKote'd pot. There is no root spin out. I trialed the use of root pruning systems for cannabis years ago using Griffin's Spin-Out coated conventional black nursery pots. Do a search and you'll find plenty of my threads or references. https://www.google.com/search?q=+Spin+out+Uncle+Ben's+cannabis+root+pruning&client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=573602636&ei=6fUrZYSaE8C7qtsPmcWDoAU&ved=0ahUKEwjEsr3IoPiBAxXAnWoFHZniAFQQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=+Spin+out+Uncle+Ben's+cannabis+root+pruning&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAaAhgBIisgU3BpbiBvdXQgVW5jbGUgQmVuJ3MgY2FubmFiaXMgcm9vdCBwcnVuaW5nMggQIRigARiLAzIIECEYoAEYiwMyCBAhGKABGIsDMggQIRigARiLA0i2YFDREVi5V3ABeACQAQCYAZEBoAHLC6oBBDIuMTG4AQPIAQD4AQHCAggQABiiBBiwA8ICBRAAGKIE4gMEGAEgQYgGAZAGAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

I build small (3 gal.) to large (100 gal.) bottomless root pruning "pots" using a roll of RootBuilder for my greenhouse tropical fruit trees. For example, in this photo I have cut the cables tieing the ends together in order to add 2 or 3 panels, expanding the container of a Moro blood orange. Notice the only prominent roots are a few large ones at the bottom growing into my native clay loam.

Again, the fungi need to time to come out of dormancy, aka activate and become one with the root system. That is why the application is recommended for perennials. You just don't have the time frame of growing a plant say....3-6 months to set up a good filament colony.

My root systems are massive and efficient. Some examples over the years with cannabis.

Griffin's SpinOut affect. This was a Zamal gifted to me by Gypsy years ago.



2002, Griffin's experiment. Very dense, fibrous root system.



2010, field grown cannabis in a pot. You have to literally bounce this rootball hard against the ground to knock off any remaining soil.



RootBuilder. This avocado tree was grafted in 2012. It is so vigorous that I have to top it at least twice a year to keep it under 16' tall. Cados are rich and creamy.



What I use:



Myco treated roots taken out of a root pruning pot (MicroKote). This is a Deep Chunk male last April.

Uncle Ben

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Almost every product marketed specifically for cannabis has one specific purpose... to separate you from your money.

Here are some roots that haven't seen any bullshit additives, enzymes, biologicals, or any of that other over-marketed over hyped bullshit, only water and Peter's/Jacks 20/20/20:



As long as you're using fabric containers, all you really need is water and fertilizer.

RootTrapper, RootMaker brand. Too much maintenance, they dry out too fast.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

You wouldn't be able to visually see anything anyway. You could compare against a control, but otherwise you would need to use a staining technique with a microscope to view endomycorrhizal infection.

Really?



The fungi need to be fed too with something worked into your bulk soil mix like composted horse or cow manure, leaf mold, etc.

Uncle Ben

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

Really?

View attachment 18906175 View attachment 18906176 View attachment 18906177

The fungi need to be fed too with something worked into your bulk soil mix like composted horse or cow manure, leaf mold, etc.

Uncle Ben

The Fungus is Amongus!