Hey ICMag! We are Lush LED Lighting!!!

[Lush Lighting]

So what ur saying here is that people can get the same yield using ur led's with less watts compared to their hps lights they were using before.

That's funny because I know quite a few growers and none of them would use less watts when switching to led's if this were true, they would use the same watts and yield more.

So that sounds funny to me?

Totally understand where you're coming from. What you're saying makes sense from a business standpoint. Out of one thousand growers using Lush Lighting, I know of one that is up to 1000 Lush watts in his 5x5 tent. His reasoning is exactly the same as your intention for yielding more. Other growers increase their canopy space with the available electricity. Most of them are growing for personal use. So being able to grow all they need and save money reduces their cost to medicate. Guess it all depends on what your goals are.
Also, Lush Lighting ships all over the world. Many places are only allowed 5000 watts total for their home and grow all together. Our lights make it possible.

 

[Lush Lighting]

Lush, keep your cool... anyone who has been reading knows you have already answered twice about the Cree issue and about actual wattage draw plus the other things.

you need to grow thicker skin around these parts, as there are many strongly opinionated people, whose opinions are often times quite misinformed.

I hope to see more grows from Lush as I'm a LED enthusiast, I really dislike dealing with HID; it's messy, ballasts, bulbs, too much heat, etc... I'm a plug and play kinda person when it comes to indoor growing, I'm a pampered outdoor grower for the most part...

be good!

peace

Lol, thank you. I needed that cheek smack. I'm good, I'm good. I just don't want to lose the focus and his posts were like prodding sticks. That little bit of encouragement went a long way for me. Thicker skin on its way

 

[phrank]

Light shape question...

Light shape question...

How come your lights are so rectangular, I'd think that a square light would be better? Have you thought of producing lights perfectly shaped/ sized for existing tents, or classic room dimensions like 4' x 4'? Serious questions, absolutely no disrespect intended.

phrank

 

[Lush Lighting]

Hi Phrank,
No offense taken I know sometimes it seems strange that a rectangle could make a square footprint; I've had to explain that one quite a few times. The rectangle does create the right spectrum for a square footprint. Our lights are designed to be optimal at 2 ft away from your canopy and this allows time for the light to spread out and drop down into a square. But yes, we have given a lot of thought to our footprint. We'd like to compete with larger footprints so we have kept that in mind with our next model. Our new model should have a prototype out by Christmas. This question will not be a question

 

[Phychotron]

and with that said, can you provide some numbers to reflect that claim? It would set everyone's mind at ease if you could provide that information. You have the colorful graphic but it does not give numbers over the 3x3 grid at set distances away. How do we even know that graphic was created with data and not artistic interpretation of how the light performs?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

and with that said, can you provide some numbers to reflect that claim? It would set everyone's mind at ease if you could provide that information. You have the colorful graphic but it does not give numbers over the 3x3 grid at set distances away. How do we even know that graphic was created with data and not artistic interpretation of how the light performs?

a little piece of advice. If ur asking somebody for something, its better to do it with showing appreciation and asking with politeness, rather than skeptical negativity.

I understand ur skepticism, but remember ur asking for someone to do something for u, not ordering them like they owe u something.

 

[Mikenite69]

I know everyone wants answers and all but I think Renae/lush has been more than trying to help. I also don't think that they would come to this site if there light was a piece of shit and didn't do what they claim. I mean she has been taking a pounding and she is still here.

Why don't we all just sit back ask questions when they arise and chill and smoke a joint. Let's see what Dr. Young's light puts out and how much he is able to yield. I mean that is what we are mostly interested in this light for right? Like I said before Dr. Young you have a lot of weight on your shoulders so you better kill this grow before a mutiny happens. Lol

Ya you have to have thick skin on here and go through your icmag hazing before people realize you aren't going anywheres but damn. I personally don't think any led manufacture would come to the mag to get tortured if they weren't 100% confident in there lights.

 

[Dr.Young]

I think the timelapse videos and all the stuff thats already out is plenty enough to show what a light will do.

It wont be a problem for me to show how the light does Got some Purple Haze x White Rhino, Platinum Kush x Chemmy Jones, and 501st OG x Blueberry Headband in germ now too, to add to the show.

 

[Beta Test Team]

Lush Lighting: Great looking product you have, nice work.

Here are good data on some of these topics under discussion if you haven't seen them:

"LEDs vs. HPS lamps: A reality check"
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=296665

 

[Lush Lighting]

Thanks Beta. Interesting read

 

[Lush Lighting]

All We Can Do is Post Results...

All We Can Do is Post Results...

This here is Lush Larry at Day 52!

 

[az2000]

Also she has stated that being a unique build, they don't openly want to allow the light to be cloned by giving away unnecessary details.

That reasoning implies spectrum/ratio is a secret. However, as soon as a light is in the hands of another it is no longer a secret. If someone with a profit motive (competitor) wanted to know the spectrum/ratio, they would certainly possess a $3k spectrometer for such investigation.

The average person (like you and I) who would just like to know what we're "feeding" to our plants can determine spectrum/ratio using a $30 DIY spectrometer (from PublicLabs.).

The whole "magic spectrum" rationale is marketing hype. You're getting something really unique, that you have to pay a fortune for. Like I said, if it's that unique and worth that much money, a competitor could acquire it for the cost of a single light. All the secrecy does is keep the average consumer ignorant (and, subject to the marketing technique of selling a "secret ingredient.").

There are plenty of LED brands that publish their exact spectrum and ratio. Some like Area 51 publish part numbers. Personally, I don't see any reason to buy a product based upon such reasoning when there are more transparent products out there.

(Note: I'm not saying any "buy-a-secret" product doesn't grow well. Just that I suspect the "secret" is used to psychologically justify the price. Not an objective criteria but an emotional one.).

 

[Lush Lighting]

That reasoning implies spectrum/ratio is a secret. However, as soon as a light is in the hands of another it is no longer a secret. If someone with a profit motive (competitor) wanted to know the spectrum/ratio, they would certainly possess a $3k spectrometer for such investigation.

The average person (like you and I) who would just like to know what we're "feeding" to our plants can determine spectrum/ratio using a $30 DIY spectrometer (from PublicLabs.).

The whole "magic spectrum" rationale is marketing hype. You're getting something really unique, that you have to pay a fortune for. Like I said, if it's that unique and worth that much money, a competitor could acquire it for the cost of a single light. All the secrecy does is keep the average consumer ignorant (and, subject to the marketing technique of selling a "secret ingredient.").

There are plenty of LED brands that publish their exact spectrum and ratio. Some like Area 51 publish part numbers. Personally, I don't see any reason to buy a product based upon such reasoning when there are more transparent products out there.

(Note: I'm not saying any "buy-a-secret" product doesn't grow well. Just that I suspect the "secret" is used to psychologically justify the price. Not an objective criteria but an emotional one.).

Sorry you don't understand this but it's not marketing hype. The people that just want to grow with it and not copy it, just need to put it in their garden and watch it grow with amazing results. People that are trying to copy the spectrum can buy the light, open it, void the warranty and still not know why our lights are producing the results they are because they don't know something special that we do. And we'd be foolish to disclose that information. It's in our best interest to keep certain secrets to ourselves. We have a very expensive spectometer and have shown images of what it says. But, we're not underhanded just because we don't want to reveal certain things. Our results speak for themselves. That's what people really want. Results. We get more requests for photos of what our lights can do than we do people asking for exact spectrum secrets. LED companies are popping up everywhere because of companies like Area51 who post exact information. We would like to keep our edge and right now, no one has demonstrated that they have figured out something that we have. We don't want to give it away. It's what makes us different.

 

[Dr.Young]

White is the best canvas to paint on.

 

[Phychotron]

How to reverse engineer a light spectrum: get your hands on one, put a piece of paper over the diodes and compare. You will easily be able to tell the difference between the diode color, easily spotting different reds and blues. You'll get more info from looking at the light than anything listed on the website.

Its thanks to sites like alibaba that are letting people pump out clones of lights. They will put whatever numbers you want in the light and you can re-sell them without ever touching an LED. Those sites let you 'clone' a spectrum, which is so commonly out there that its not something they need in order to clone a light. They need the ratio of those spectrum, which becomes easily obtainable when in hand.

So anyone trying to clone a basic spectrum can do it in a heartbeat, its figuring the right diodes to use that are the real concern. Area 51 may be a bit excessive in telling you the part numbers, but their advertisement strategy.

To clone the exact light you'd want to tear one apart and get the diode numbers, but I doubt anyone would bother for serious or generic clone's.

 

[az2000]

People that are trying to copy the spectrum can buy the light, open it, void the warranty and still not know why our lights are producing the results they are because they don't know something special that we do.

You just proved my point. There's nothing special except perhaps the bins you use. That's just a matter of how much a presumed copier would be willing to invest in higher-quality LEDs.

My concern is all those who have no intention of doing so, but are kept in the dark (no pun intended) about the spectrum they're paying a premium for (for the "specialness"), unable to objectively compare what they're feeding to other lights who do publish spectrum and ratio. At best this preserves a few sales to copycats who would have to buy the light to get the info (at the expense of everyone else who could make a more informed decision about what they're spending money on, how other lights may compare).

 

[az2000]

Its thanks to sites like alibaba that are letting people pump out clones of lights.

I agree. I think brands will have to start competing on more objective criteria, like warranty, service, quality of parts, upgrade options. Competing on "proprietary blend" doesn't seem to have a future when the trend is toward white, and we can buy Cree warm/cool "lightbulbs" at Home Depot, or build hugely efficient COBs, etc.

Amusing to me, as you said, anyone can count the number of distinct colors in a fixture. 630 and 660 are readily discernible with proper shading to be able to look at the light.

I can sort of understand not revealing actual part numbers (although there are brands who do, and are willing to compete on other factors). But, keeping the spectrum/ratio a secret raises a big flag to me (that hype is a component) because, it's trivial to get spectrum and ratio.

Oh well. It may not be important to most buyers.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Im with az. I don't give a crap about exact scientific data, as I probably wont understand it anyway. Or part numbers, I don't care about either. I want something plug and play. but come on, cant u explain it in laymens terms to me why ur light is more special. Just showing pics of nice herb, there is a million of them on this site. and just telling me to buy it and use it. lmao, yeah ive got a special light that will get u 3 gpw, and I got pics, just buy it and grow with it u will see. lmao.... Im sure there are a few suckers that will just buy into u saying they are better. Im just looking for some common sense explanation of why they are better.

waiting for my common sense answer??? I don't think I will be holding my breath though.

 

[Beta Test Team]

...it's trivial to get spectrum and ratio.

Just wanted to mention I'm not so sure about that, if by spectrum you mean the SPD. Getting a spectrum of emitted energy (ie SPD) isn't trivial, unless one has a nice spectroradiometer (greater than $5,000 for all but the most basic models) - or send in the luminaire to be tested at lab.

Once you have the spectral irradiance data (so, umol/m2/s/nm; or even by watt) from the spectroradiometer it's then trivial to analyze the data points (well, I guess it's only trivial for people good at math). And if all one has is the SPD, for example from the manufacturer, that can be converted into relative energy units to analyze the light source sans spectroradiometer.

Overall I agree with what you're writing: selling a luminaire without showing the SPD and lumen (or better yet, umol) data is like selling nutrients without listing the guaranteed analysis. While some people won't care and are happy to use them in ignorance, others will care and won't use them due to lack of information (that's the camp where we fit into).

 

[az2000]

Just wanted to mention I'm not so sure about that, if by spectrum you mean the SPD.

Usually LED brands disclose the bands used but not the ratio (that's the "proprietary blend."). It's trivial to simply view the light with proper shading (paper, as another poster mentioned, or shade 5 welding goggles supplemented with sunglasses, the paper technique, etc. Anything to bring the intensity down to comfortable levels.). The difference between 630, 660, etc. will be readily apparent.

Less often a brand won't even disclose the bands used. In that case, the DIY desktop/USB spectrometer from PublicLabs for $40 will reveal the bands. Just discover the unique colors used as described above, and measure one of each with the device (you'll need to experiment with an "aperture" on the end of the spectrometer to reduce the intensity of the light, focus it more discretely.).

From my perspective, if protecting a "secret" were the goal, and is as valuable as depicted to prospective customers, a competitor would have no problem buying the light and investing in a $3k spectrometer. Logically protecting the "secret" is little more than generating a dozen extra sales to competitors.

I doubt the value of the "secret" is limited to that. I suspect it has more to do with the marketing, selling the light for a little more, premised upon the "special" whatever you're buying... and can't be disclosed because the competition would kill for it (which leads to how they don't have to kill for it, just buy a light.).

Everything about it sounds subjective, to reduce the objectivity of choosing a light. It's not just Lush. It's CLW, HGL, et. al. do it too.

In a year or two I don't believe this hype will fly anymore. You can get 9w Cree screw-in lightbulbs on Alibaba (<<link) for $2 each + free shipping. For $30 you can surround a medium-sized plant with 15 of these to get 34w/sq. ft. It may not be as good as the "secret" stuff, but there *must* be a cost/benefit curve which says $30 for 1g/w is better than $300 for 1.2g/w.

In that example I ignored the initial costs of clamp-on reflectors, power distribution to 15 lights. (I also ignored that 12, 15 and 18w bulbs are available for 25 to 60 cents more, reducing the initial costs of sockets, reflectors, power distribution.).

My point is, LED is changing so radically, I don't think "secrets as a commodity" will survive long. There's a company making an LED fixture with heat-extraction enclosure and screw-in COBs for user-configurability for any spectrum they choose. And all the DIY COB projects that don't require special skills. The screw-in consumer bulbs I've mentioned.

It's an interesting time when you can buy spectrometers for $40, and bathe your plant from 15-20 sources for $30-$40 (not counting initial hardware costs to mount/adjust such lights).