heath inspired test prototype (aero)

[Hazed]

i hope you don't mind a few suggestions from me...

Cropping levels isn't going to give you the desired effect... You shouldn't be pulling your plants out, b/c you could damage the roots and unnecessarily kill plants... So rotating them to the upper levels isn't a realistic option... Which means when you pull a level, the one below it is going to block out the new clones above. It's a much better idea as far as canopy management to crop walls at least, if not the entire room...

Secondly, if you have 16' ceilings, why don't you make a solid octagon with enough space to crawl under to get in? Hint hint... Lol... Or at least 1 removable rack. If i'm ever gonna hit 10lbs off 1800w, no space can be left in the canopy... Including the floor. Good thing blumats don't need drains...

Bobble, its great to hear from you!
Thanks for explaining, I am getting a little better grasp as to what I need to do here. I actually am just as clueless as I seem! The crawl under entrance will work best Im sure! Im going with blumats for my outdoor, as soon as I figure out what I need to order,lol. Thanks bro!

I understand Haze what your thinking, but like bobbles pointed out about new flower clones goin in the system with already mature plants would make it super hard to manage the canopy running perpetual on different levels...in a square.
Im not saying it cant be done, but i think if you truly want to run perpetual and your set on it, I think running each wall seperate would be alot easier,,, but even then the corner plants with fresh clones will be dwarfed by the mature plants on the wall next to it.

Now an octagon would be a different story and i would love to see it! octagon has 8 sides (walls). I think hydrosun did some math a while back about the footprint sq footage needed to build my system into an octagon. cant remember the number. my racks are 5ft wide. So maybe somebody could enlighten us? Anyhow....once we find the sq footage we can figure out if there is adequate watts per sq ft with vertical bulbs in the center. I think that might be the reason i ultimately figured a hexagon might be even better. Cant remember.


So an octagon running perpetual would allow you to split the system in half and run 4 walls off a reservoir, and the other 4 walls a month or so behind on its own system. I think with the octagon and the space it will allow, you could get away with smaller plants on the adjacent 4 walls without to much problem. Man!! if i had the space i would love to build me an aero octagon! Hell if i wasnt so set on dialing my system in i would get to work on it right now.

When i first built my system I hadnt worked with raingutters before,, and it just takes doing it. For me i just started building and tweaking. If ya try to blueprint it all out it just becomes more of a headache. I hope you do it man..i would love to see it!

Well maybe the split between the two halves needs to be in the middle of a flat wall as well. wouldnt be hard to do with a solid structure.
Hey after watching you save that crop, I think you have about mastered that system, and automated too? FTW. If I had yours I wouldnt change a thing! I will be happy if I am to the point of dialing a few strains/phenos to this new system by next summer.
I will learn to work with gutters, just didnt know what was posible, thanks bro!

I'm building an octogon . Took DHF's design and broke it into 8 2' wide racks instead of four 4' wide racks. I did play with the idea in google sketch up so I could visualize placement. The inside diameter will still be 6', but my racks should in theory have more even placement around the light. I'm hoping this will reduce shading in the corners. As far as wanting to run perpetual, I think it would be easier to just build multiple smaller rack setups, each with it's own single res, and harvest a month or so apart. That way you can monocrop while still having different strains, and not worry about crazy uneven canopy and dialing 4 different reses. Would be more efficent yield wise, and alot less work trying to keep everything happy.

LOL, I have dialup and cant even download sketchup!(Net zero bites azz) Sounds like you have a good plan.
DHF's design? I guess i need to do some searching.
Multiple systems makes more sense to me after hearing everyones input. FHC also has a point though, The multiple chillers would be the downside. I think I better go with an octagon vert system, one res, one chiller, mono crop to get things rolling. Might take a year to get things the way I want em! Would appreciate seeing your progress! Thank you for sharing!

Only problem is having to chill so many reservoirs. With aero you almost have to use a chiller or risk root problems and crop failure. Not to mention every reservoir and wall will need its own pump too. Is why i suggested just cutting an octagon into 2 systems. But it can all be done..just what is the KISS method?

Wondering if using earth temperature might be feasable (gotta 425 gallon tank doing nothing right now), Im doing a lot of thinking in this area right now (head may explode from data overload).The price of a chiller would go a long way towards other things, I have about 5k max to throw at this. I will get some pics of the new place within the next few weeks and pm you guys invitations to my selfhelp thread.lol. Thanks for helping me out guys!

 

[Mister_D]

Hazed - I'll be showing my racks in the coming weeks in my vert redemption thread. For now i'd recommend you read all of bobblehead's threads here in the vert section, one is a sticky . I am actually copying alot of what he is doing, plus all his threads are packed with useful tips . Be sure to let me know when your thread is up. I'm interested to see what you come up with, and willing to help if i'm able.

 

[DHF]

Even though Bobble`s is Ball`s deep in octagon production , I don`t agree with it....and.....stressed it at the time , but Everyone hasta follow their own path to Nirvana......

Mr D , I advise against it and here`s why....the VERY reason I chose 4 walls with chopped/angled corners holding all my equipment mounted either thru wall or on the walls covered in reflectix instead of plants was simple....

I`ve seen so many folks over the yrs try plants on 4 , 6 , and 8 walls with stacked bulbs with corner plants growin into and chokin each other out competing for lumens and environment and killin yields.....so.....

It only made sense to put on angled corners to keep the corner plants away from each other to be all they could be while allowing the perfect area for the a/c`s , dehuey`s , all wall fans and exhaust/scrubber combo up top to all hang out and be a viable help inside small rooms instead of a hindrance.....and.....

Even my lil access door of 17" x 36" was at the bottom corner furthest away from the flip room next to it to prevent any light leak potential for added insurance....

Guys....there`s a reason why colisseums work cuz they`re round and grow budsicles.....

Plants 32-36" finished height in a 6 x 6 room pointed right at the lights with angled racks is at best tedious to form that perfect sideways canopy for max gpw`s and consistent returns that mean EVERYTHING for payin the bills regularly ok ?....

Hazed....Lemme talk yas outta runnin different aged plants in the same room/setup cuz you`ll be fightin yourself every step of the way to maintain environment and lumenloss if the plants aren`t the same size and age all the way round the lights guaranteed....

Anyways....Just tryin ta help and not tell folks what to do , just what I learned from the best and taught myself and witnessed first hand over the many yrs I did this shit...

Peace.....DHF..........

 

[farmhouse cat]

Heres a silly little roughdraft of what i had in mind. After running my system over the last several months i know for a fact this is possible. The reason i have it split into 2 different systems is beacuse trying to angle raingutters from 8 sides to drain to one sump/return res would be near impossible. Unless you have a sub floor. 4 is babyshit.. 8 would suck! but then again you could just have 2 sump res's that pumped back to one reservoir also. but in this i went with two so you could run perpetual if one wanted .

The inside diameter from canopy to canopy is beyond my math skills..lol remember 5ft walls??? anyone wanna take a stab at it?...BUT....you could shorten that distance with smaller walls..but of course then you sacrifice plant numbers.

I understand what DHf is saying about corner plants bein choked..but after runnin a square i know an octagon will be much more forgiving.

edit: 5 sites per level. below

 

[Mister_D]

DHF - Not really sure I understand your thinking. You had four plants per shelf, did you train the two outside plants outwards to fill in the space where the angled corners are? Leaving room for the middle two plants to bush out? My rack design will allow me to do an octogon or a square with corners like you describe. If four walls are better than eight i'll go that route, but I want to wrap my head around the benifits. Keep in mind I won't have any equipment inside the racks aside from lights and a fan blowing upward from the floor. There will be a 14" exhaust running out the ceiling, then ducted back into the veg room via 14" max fan. The room will be sealed with a/c controling temps. Help me out here fred I want to understand your findings.

 

[bobblehead]

Even though Bobble`s is Ball`s deep in octagon production , I don`t agree with it....and.....stressed it at the time , but Everyone hasta follow their own path to Nirvana......

I have to respectfully disagree with Freds on the octagon... 1 of your shelves was 4' wide. 2 of my shelves cover 5', and the plants are pointed toward the light. There are no corners, and the plants are spread further apart so as to not choke each other out, and require less hacking than they would with 4 plants lined up next to each other. Growing on 8 walls is more complicated than 4... But blumats are gonna make that task much more simple... And you just have to be creative about where you place equipment. My goal was to eliminate as much equipment from the growing space as possible, so i could fit more plants.

Yeah, i haven't got to 6lb babyshit harvests yet... But with prior proper planning (PPP), I'm gonna blow that out of the water.... . It's only what you've been screamin at me the past 1.5 years as I've consistently moved or tore down and rebuilt after seemingly every grow... Lol....

Anyway, wait till the next grow... Cause I have all my ducks in a row now...

 

[farmhouse cat]

120 site farmhouse aero octagon with 1.5 oz plants = 11.25 lbs.

 

[bobblehead]

Heath agrees with me...



Oh hey... Isn't that a HGO light stand?

 

[DHF]

Bobbles......I apologize and respect your disagreeance , but before you do.....

The fact iis the closer the plants grow toward the light at an angle makes em gow "into" each other and choke each other out the further and closer they get to the stacked bulbs in a 6 x 6 area....Trust me.......and ...I`ve seen it on many many setups mmiicing Heath`s designs cuz they don`t get much feedback from him to detail shit IME.....

Unless yas grow budsicles with major increased plant numbers like a Coli unlike what I did with mini-Xmas trees that extended out and laid the main colas across the horti-trellis for support till harvey , and ....

I only averaged 1 1/2 oz plants pruned raped and shaped for max lumen absorption and swellage for the limbs left on the plants till end of cycle with 32-36" plants averaged at an angle after rape and pillage for dominant colas/lateral limbs.... ....

Budscicles or mini Xmas tees....Your choice....but.....Yas GOTTA fill up the sideways canopy 1 way or the other Bro........ so ....

Single cola plants in a colisseum type octagonal setup will yield more with more plants , but not if they grow toward the light and angle into each other from bein longer as they do so competing with lumen absorption and environment for each plant in the other 1`s sq ftg footprint once out there and huggin the bulbs for max returns by end of cycle......

All about your setup and what works inside your grow area.....Mine worked well the way I ran it , and I never pushed it on anyone even though it wasn`t Heath`s design but based on the same thingy......anyways......

Bobbles ...Think about what I`m saying before disagreeing......How many more plants yas gotta put in the setup to do budsicles versus plants that`ll get close to the bulbs and be all they can be....

Ok.....Choices and decisions....Ya`ll handle it....

Peace....Freds........

 

[Sqydro]

its HGOs lightstand minus the fan underneath, fred in heaths flooded tube set up he runs a kind of octagonal shape there, are you meanin by 'budsicles' when running this kind of set up that just flip them n prune for sungle cola plants? so as they are not competing? or could you combat this by less plants bigger space and let them have a cola and some secondary? or would u only run this type in a 4 wall square set up?

whens the next run then FHC? lookin forward to the show

 

[Ground Up]

Heres a silly little roughdraft of what i had in mind. After running my system over the last several months i know for a fact this is possible. The reason i have it split into 2 different systems is beacuse trying to angle raingutters from 8 sides to drain to one sump/return res would be near impossible. Unless you have a sub floor. 4 is babyshit.. 8 would suck! but then again you could just have 2 sump res's that pumped back to one reservoir also. but in this i went with two so you could run perpetual if one wanted .

The inside diameter from canopy to canopy is beyond my math skills..lol remember 5ft walls??? anyone wanna take a stab at it?...BUT....you could shorten that distance with smaller walls..but of course then you sacrifice plant numbers.

I understand what DHf is saying about corner plants bein choked..but after runnin a square i know an octagon will be much more forgiving.

edit: 5 sites per level. below
View Image

hey FH have you thought about changing from aero,one pump fails and thats 60 plants.... that hurts any one?

 

[farmhouse cat]

its HGOs lightstand minus the fan underneath, fred in heaths flooded tube set up he runs a kind of octagonal shape there, are you meanin by 'budsicles' when running this kind of set up that just flip them n prune for sungle cola plants? so as they are not competing? or could you combat this by less plants bigger space and let them have a cola and some secondary? or would u only run this type in a 4 wall square set up?

whens the next run then FHC? lookin forward to the show

Im runnin as we speak. will post some pics in a few minutes.

 

[bobblehead]

Bobbles......I apologize and respect your disagreeance , but before you do.....

The fact iis the closer the plants grow toward the light at an angle makes em gow "into" each other and choke each other out the further and closer they get to the stacked bulbs in a 6 x 6 area....Trust me.......and ...I`ve seen it on many many setups mmiicing Heath`s designs cuz they don`t get much feedback from him to detail shit IME.....

Unless yas grow budsicles with major increased plant numbers like a Coli unlike what I did with mini-Xmas trees that extended out and laid the main colas across the horti-trellis for support till harvey , and ....

I only averaged 1 1/2 oz plants pruned raped and shaped for max lumen absorption and swellage for the limbs left on the plants till end of cycle with 32-36" plants averaged at an angle after rape and pillage for dominant colas/lateral limbs.... ....

Budscicles or mini Xmas tees....Your choice....but.....Yas GOTTA fill up the sideways canopy 1 way or the other Bro........ so ....

Single cola plants in a colisseum type octagonal setup will yield more with more plants , but not if they grow toward the light and angle into each other from bein longer as they do so competing with lumen absorption and environment for each plant in the other 1`s sq ftg footprint once out there and huggin the bulbs for max returns by end of cycle......

All about your setup and what works inside your grow area.....Mine worked well the way I ran it , and I never pushed it on anyone even though it wasn`t Heath`s design but based on the same thingy......anyways......

Bobbles ...Think about what I`m saying before disagreeing......How many more plants yas gotta put in the setup to do budsicles versus plants that`ll get close to the bulbs and be all they can be....

Ok.....Choices and decisions....Ya`ll handle it....

Peace....Freds........

First of all, i didn't purposely rate your post not helpful... That was a touch screen accident, trying to hit reply... Sorry bro.

Your advise isn't falling on deaf ears... I'll do ya one better than think though. I'll build the next room DTW to your specs, and run them side by side...

 

[farmhouse cat]

hey FH have you thought about changing from aero,one pump fails and thats 60 plants.... that hurts any one?

Never thought once about changing. I dont even know what a blumat is..much less care. lol. People think aero is so difficult but its not. Ive been runnin aero for 3 years and only had a couple problems. Mostly stoner stuff like forgetting to plug a pump in etc. My system is plumbed to city water in case of a power or pump failure to keep plants alive until things get sorted. I have power savers for my veg and clone units when power fails. My cloner has been running on the same pump i bought 3 years ago at the same time i learned what the hell a clone was. So no i never thought about changing. Its the fastest and easiest system to maintain IMO.

 

[DHF]

The hypotenuse of a 2' right triangle is right at 34" for total plant length on a 45 degree angle while still over 1' away from the stacked bulbs on a horizontal plane in a 6 x 6 grow area.....

Guys.....Let`s come together....Promise I`m hereta help from what I`ve done and not throw a monkey wrench into what ya`ll are runnin .....but.....

It`s ya`lls call....DHF........

 

[bobblehead]

its HGOs lightstand minus the fan underneath, fred in heaths flooded tube set up he runs a kind of octagonal shape there, are you meanin by 'budsicles' when running this kind of set up that just flip them n prune for sungle cola plants? so as they are not competing? or could you combat this by less plants bigger space and let them have a cola and some secondary? or would u only run this type in a 4 wall square set up?

whens the next run then FHC? lookin forward to the show

He's saying that a high # sog doesn't have as big of plants, so they won't be growing into each other... But the longer the buds get, if they're all pointed straight at the lamps, then they'll have more of a tendency to grow into each other. it's a trade-off. Large christmas trees or more smaller single cola plants... I get it, but I'm still pullin for the octagon design...

I'll make some 4x6 shelves... I have a bit of ponliner laying around... I've been practicing with the pvc already, so I should be able to handle a manifold with tophat grommets and ball valves on each level. No need to experiment, I already have 1 experimental room...

 

[farmhouse cat]

How about stretchy nugs from top to bottom for filling in the canopy

 

[Ground Up]

pimp.......................................

 

[Mister_D]

Now thats a beautiful site to behold farmhouse. Looking better with every run bro

Fred - I'm still not seeing the benefit of a square over an octagon. With mini xmas trees needing more space between each plant it seems to make more sense to break the shelves up so they can be spread out giving each plant more space. I will have 2 plants per shelf enabling me to spread them away from eachother vs 4 plants per shelf which only allows the outer plants to be trained away. Leaving the inner plants stuck growing into eachother. I trust your experience, but even your above explaination seems to support an octagon being superior.

 

[DHF]

He's saying that a high # sog doesn't have as big of plants, so they won't be growing into each other... But the longer the buds get, if they're all pointed straight at the lamps, then they'll have more of a tendency to grow into each other. it's a trade-off. Large christmas trees or more smaller single cola plants... I get it, but I'm still pullin for the octagon design...

I'll make some 4x6 shelves... I have a bit of ponliner laying around... I've been practicing with the pvc already, so I should be able to handle a manifold with tophat grommets and ball valves on each level. No need to experiment, I already have 1 experimental room...

Bobbles...Heath`s 4 x 6 x 6.5 height with 3 levels and like 87 plants all around the 2-600`s side by side as a breeding project with fully rooted cuts fillin in the gaps for the sideways canopy development.....and.....

The corner plants in his rectangle didn`t yield fer shit but....lil over 4 lbs from increased plant numbers that proved his point....

Plant numbers dictate yield....period....Plants up the walls with bare bulbs baxtin sideways covers 4 times the sq ftg compared to a flat grow with horizontal air cooled hoods pointed down over X amount of footprint per the reflectors limitations................

Peace....DHF.........