Fusarium or verticillium?

[RetroGrow]

Also, high trichoderma = no mycorrhizae

I start in Fox Farms Lightwarrior with mycorrhizae, in 20 oz. Solo cups. Germ in paper towels, then to the cups. Mycorrhizae get established first. When cup is full of roots, then I transplant to coco. In this way, the trichoderma and mycorrhizae work symbiotically. I had a link which explains this in detail, but don't remember where it is at the moment. However it works. Lighwarrior first, then transplant to coco, and all the bennies you need are there.

 

[RetroGrow]

Found the article:


Trichoderma affects mycorrhizal fungi in petri dishes, but on plant roots their effects are frequently and beneficially additive or synergistic.
Trichoderma (depends on species/strain) can acts as antagonist to other soil borne pathogenic fungi such as Rhizoctonia spp. If the plant has well colonized mycorrhiza, the presence (quantity is imp here) of trichoderma provide an additional benefit to the plant. However, if there is large quantity before the application of AMF, then trichoderma will prevent AMF to establish.

http://www.researchgate.net/post/Does_Trichoderma_interfere_with_mycorrhizae_root_colonization


Arbuscular mycorrhizal (AM) fungi as well as microbial-free inoculants used as phytostimulators (Azospirillum) or as biological control agents of fungi (Pseudomonas and Trichoderma) have shown beneficial effects on plant growth and health. The study of plants inoculated with biological control agents and AMF requires special attention because of the possibility that these fungal antagonists could also interfere with AM fungi. Our study was performed to test the effects of these inoculants upon mycorrhizal colonization in maize plants inoculated with Glomus mosseae, Glomus deserticola and natural AMF from the test soil. Populations of culturable bacteria and fungi in the rhizosphere soil were also examined since inoculation with AM fungi and other soil microorganisms can affect both quantitatively and qualitatively the microbial communities in the plant rhizosphere. Enzyme activities (esterase, phosphatase, trehalase and chitinase) were used as an index to detect changes in the microbial functioning in soil, as affected by mycorrhizal and other inoculation treatments. None of the microbial inoculants used, even those biocontrol agents of fungi, showed negative effects on AM establishment. Mycorrhizal colonization induced qualitative changes in the bacterial population depending on the inoculant combination involved. Esterase activity was particularly increased by G. mosseae (256%), phosphatase activity by natural AMF (166%), chitinase by G. mosseae (197%), G. deserticola (152%) and natural AMF (151%), and trehalase by G. deserticola (444%). As a result of mycorrhizal colonization and microbial inoculation, modifications of the microbial community structure and ecology were found. An understanding of these effects as part of ecosystem processes is essential for obtaining the maximum benefit for plant growth and health in the context of soil–plant system sustainability.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0929139300000755

 

[Thcvhunter]

Wicked smart

 

[TheOutlawTree]

Looks like im going to have to scrap my vegging baby's. I have brought in fungus gnats, which apparently came from the vermisoil Im using. I read these can be a vector of the fusarium.

I also picked up some clones for my outdoor crop up in Garberville at Wonderland nursery over the weekend that I think im going to throw away. They were pretty infested with spider mites, not to mention in mediocre health. Very disappointed in that place for wasting my time. They knew I was driving 5 hours to get there, a heads up about the mite problem would have been nice before I wasted a bunch of money and time.

Im going through a depression having to deal with this fusarium. Im debating packing up and leaving this house, but I don't want to run from the problem if its beatable. Im assuming theres a good chance the spores are all over my belongings at this point anyway.

 

[TheArchitect]

Keep your head up.

I've had an entire house full of plants ruined, everything, my entire genetic library, moms, clones, and 25 large plants 1 week into flower.

I grew in hydro after that for a while and then had a case of cyano ruin it because I got complacent and let the system sit stagnant between runs.

Went back to coco and peat and didn't run into it again. This was all at the same house. I always clean between runs, and threw out all gear from any grow that went awry from pathogens.

I moved and have been continuing to do fine.

Needless to say, we all have fuck ups and losses as farmers, cause that's what we are. Farming ain't for everybody, only the determined and passionate. Getting bucked off and then back on the horse is just part of the ride sometimes.

 

[RetroGrow]

Looks like im going to have to scrap my vegging baby's. I have brought in fungus gnats, which apparently came from the vermisoil Im using. I read these can be a vector of the fusarium.

I also picked up some clones for my outdoor crop up in Garberville at Wonderland nursery over the weekend that I think im going to throw away. They were pretty infested with spider mites, not to mention in mediocre health. Very disappointed in that place for wasting my time. They knew I was driving 5 hours to get there, a heads up about the mite problem would have been nice before I wasted a bunch of money and time.

Im going through a depression having to deal with this fusarium. Im debating packing up and leaving this house, but I don't want to run from the problem if its beatable. Im assuming theres a good chance the spores are all over my belongings at this point anyway.

Fungus gnats are everywhere. Easy to get rid of, and shouldn't frighten you away from growing at a location.
All soil has fusarium spores, and lots of soils have fungus gnats/larvae. Might be easier to switch to coco, but bennies in your soil should do the trick, as has already been posted.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

My plants in organic soil with repeated inoculations of Root Shield beginning with germination, have finished week five of 12/12 and are succumbing. Of the original thirteen females I'm down to five. Those culled had symptoms of listlessness, yellowing, and darkening pistils. Four of the remaining five are showing the same and will probably come down soon. But I keep hoping.

Since I continued to use flood and drain tubs it was an all or nothing gamble since plants in tubs shared a common reservoir. It's depressing to lose these plants at the end of stretch but that's the timing of this disease. One plant has dark green color and perky leaves but one bud is showing heat stressed pistils so I expect that plant too will eventually be a casualty. Some affected plants show a sensitivity to the lights, with pistils darkening and drying. The damaged pistils don't turn the reddish brown of matured flowers but instead shrivel and then darken in shades of gray. Fan leaves turn from green to bronze, then yellow. Understory leaves simply yellow. One might hope it's the normal yellowing of bottom leaves but it's somewhat premature, progresses more quickly, and leaves become listless, sometimes blotchy, sometimes up-curled edges, and give the plant the appearance of suffering from over watering, though the upper leaves might still look great.

I was able to take some clones earlier which rooted in vermiculite and in coco. So I guess that's a plus.

Too bad I got my hopes up and popped more seeds. If I do get a plant to survive one of these runs I'll definitely make efforts to preserve those genetics.

 

[Thcvhunter]

Dude, stop being over dramatic about what's going on here.
I showed you how hard I got hit and was able to bounce back. We've ALL gotten hit by something that could end the career of a novice grower - but we prevail.
Fusarium sucks, but quitting is worse. Being negative will affect your garden so start being positive. You found the problem and now know what to do to remedy it.
Fungus Gnats are no big deal. I like them - they get the bioactivity started and once the bioactivity starts rockin' and rollin' then the fungus gnats get all eaten up by the microbiology.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Well this morning the one plant that had been dark green and perky, now has limp petioles on dark green lower fan leaves. The fungus is clogging the root vascular system and reducing turgor pressure, inhibiting transpiration. I suspected this would be the case since in the last several days the pot has remained heavy and hasn't needed rewatering. This is the end of stretch when flowers should be swelling and plants just sucking up water. There is one plant still consuming water but it has premature wilting and yellowing of leaves. This grow will be a total loss except for the learning experience.

Seeds were germinated in a RootShield solution. Plants were periodically watered with a Root Shield solution, but there were several spells when this didn't occur for several weeks. Because I needed to be away for long periods the plants spent some time being watered by a flood and drain system. This untended bottom watering left some with waterlogged soil for a short period. So there was root stress for some. The common tub and reservoir of flood and drain guaranteed that if the pathogen reproduced in one plant, the others in that tub were sure to be exposed.

I do have seedlings started in RootShield soaked coco, plus some old Great White that may or may not still be active. Will probably set these up with a drain to waste nutrient-watering system to isolate each plant from the others' run off.

 

[TheOutlawTree]

Dude, stop being over dramatic about what's going on here.
I showed you how hard I got hit and was able to bounce back. We've ALL gotten hit by something that could end the career of a novice grower - but we prevail.
Fusarium sucks, but quitting is worse. Being negative will affect your garden so start being positive. You found the problem and now know what to do to remedy it.
Fungus Gnats are no big deal. I like them - they get the bioactivity started and once the bioactivity starts rockin' and rollin' then the fungus gnats get all eaten up by the microbiology.

I hear you thchunter. I've had a lot of learning experiences this past year in regards to cannabis pests and pathogens. This stuff was bound to happen at some point in my career and I am happy I've been able to further expand my knowledge now before later.

 

[TheOutlawTree]

The plan for next round is to obviously clean everything really well.

I will use subdue max early in the plants life, chitosan oligosaccharide, and root shield + caps root pack. I'll grow in coco again and may not re use dehumidifier water and condensate from ac anymore. It just sucks to waste nearly 50gallons a day when it's a drought. I am going to get my water tested next week to make sure it's not the source of the fusarium.

I am reading up on ozone generators to clean the air in my home and grow space. There are some people who say it will not kill spores and others who say it does so I will continue research.

 

[Thcvhunter]

O3 will kill a few spores here and there but will NOT sterilize a room (or rid an infection)

Crusader Rabbit, sorry to hear about your Fusarium.
Did I read your pot right, that you're starting new plants before eliminating your infected crop, sanitzing, waiting a week and sanitizing again?
Also, if you're going to be doing bottom-watering (eb 'n flow) then set your containers to be super aerated at the bottom to prevent this anaerobic problem again --- root shiled, or the period without it, is not your problem... anaerobic conditions are.
Keep your soil super aerated and warm and you won't get Fusarium in the future

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I started new plants thinking that everything was working out OK. Then the symptoms showed. There were plants that never had waterlogged bottoms, but everyone got sick. Ebb and Flo is the wrong system for me to be using now. I'm going to cull the seedlings and clones and close and clean the grow room. In the mean time I'll start two 19 gal tubs of compost rich living soil with worms in a spare bathroom. Start growing barley first and get a soil community established. Then plant seeds in the tubs.

 

[RetroGrow]

I started new plants thinking that everything was working out OK. Then the symptoms showed. There were plants that never had waterlogged bottoms, but everyone got sick. Ebb and Flo is the wrong system for me to be using now. I'm going to cull the seedlings and clones and close and clean the grow room. In the mean time I'll start two 19 gal tubs of compost rich living soil with worms in a spare bathroom. Start growing barley first and get a soil community established. Then plant seeds in the tubs.

Don't want to sound like I'm preaching, but have you tried Hempy buckets? They rock, and are foolproof. I have never had any kind of problem with them. The rez in each bucket is only 2 inches deep, half of which is filled with perlite, so plants suck it up daily, then you replenish with fresh solution, bringing fresh oxygen to the root zone. Start in Fox Farms Lighwarrior for the mycorrhizae, in solo cups. When cups are filled with roots, transplant to coco, and you have trichoderma and mycorrhizae working symbiotically, preventing fusarium from taking over. You can add OG Biowar then if you want, but I have never needed it. Only time I ever had fusarium was when I had an unattended passive wick system in big buckets. Hempys are just problem free, and huge yields.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

No, I've never used hempy buckets. People obviously have had good results with them. I had a growing system that worked very well for my needs. Many small plants in small pots of coco using Maxibloom in automated flood and drain tubs, let me constantly try new varieties and run a many strain perpetual grow. And I could leave this system to itself while I was away at work for extended periods. Worked great for a number of years. Then the pathogen expressed itself.

I question how much of this is environmental and how much simply the introduction of a very nasty fungus? Trying to drop pots of organic soil into this system for the automatic watering feature was a risky effort to try another grow. It ran into problems that compromised what I can learn from this effort. Which was the prime decider, waterlogging or pathogen? Tubs were on heating mats, but I've read different things about temperatures and fusarium.

I'd like to try running a coco coir-nutrient salt system with low EC, many multiple feedings and beneficial microflora, to try and keep my growing system. But ultimately the last resort would be to grow in a microbe rich living soil community within large beds. Using another room, and filling 19 gallon tubs with a mixture of commercial inoculated organic soil and thriving worm filled compost from my backyard should provide that environment. They'll be started by planting barley to establish a root-microbe community ahead of time. Once my strain search had slowed I intended to go to large no-till beds, so I'm OK with this new direction.

The Fox Farm Light Warrior looks really interesting. Been wondering how susceptible seedlings are to the fusarium pathogen during that transition from beer cup to final potting? In my environment, maybe it's best to plant seeds in the final container and never have the underside of the rootball exposed to the world?

Another untried option is to go the opposite of organic and grow in lava rock using monitored chlorine levels in a dead-reservoir.

 

[mojave green]

might try some agrifos...

 

[Thcvhunter]

Sorry to hear about the lost sprouts.
I actually did the same thin that year i got hit - i tried vegging in the house instead of the tool shed, only to learn how prolific spores are.

IMO/IME grow a few cycles of bioactive soil and go heavy on the companion plants, esp. those that in nature are never attacked by fungi
The bioactivity ought to help outcompete any remaining spores
Then if u have consistent success and want to go synth... Godspeed Rofl just kidding buddy.
You will beat this.
Careful with the ecosmart 33118 fungi ide- those essential oils are strong go light

 

[RetroGrow]

No, I've never used hempy buckets. People obviously have had good results with them. I had a growing system that worked very well for my needs. Many small plants in small pots of coco using Maxibloom in automated flood and drain tubs, let me constantly try new varieties and run a many strain perpetual grow. And I could leave this system to itself while I was away at work for extended periods. Worked great for a number of years. Then the pathogen expressed itself.

I question how much of this is environmental and how much simply the introduction of a very nasty fungus? Trying to drop pots of organic soil into this system for the automatic watering feature was a risky effort to try another grow. It ran into problems that compromised what I can learn from this effort. Which was the prime decider, waterlogging or pathogen? Tubs were on heating mats, but I've read different things about temperatures and fusarium.

I'd like to try running a coco coir-nutrient salt system with low EC, many multiple feedings and beneficial microflora, to try and keep my growing system. But ultimately the last resort would be to grow in a microbe rich living soil community within large beds. Using another room, and filling 19 gallon tubs with a mixture of commercial inoculated organic soil and thriving worm filled compost from my backyard should provide that environment. They'll be started by planting barley to establish a root-microbe community ahead of time. Once my strain search had slowed I intended to go to large no-till beds, so I'm OK with this new direction.

The Fox Farm Light Warrior looks really interesting. Been wondering how susceptible seedlings are to the fusarium pathogen during that transition from beer cup to final potting? In my environment, maybe it's best to plant seeds in the final container and never have the underside of the rootball exposed to the world?

Another untried option is to go the opposite of organic and grow in lava rock using monitored chlorine levels in a dead-reservoir.

Automated flood and drain + perpetual=perfect environment for fusarium spores.
Solution, IMO?
Lightwarrior in Solos, transplanted to Hempys with coco. You only need 2 gallon buckets to grow huge plants. Water/feed daily to run off, replacing the tiny rez with freshly oxygenated solution. Plants love it. Can also be set up with drippers, although I prefer hand watering, but don't have large plant numbers. I could see how it would be a hassle to hand water 100 plants. So you have mycorrhizae + trichoderma preventing fusarium from ever getting established. Hempys=foolproof. Of course, room has to be cleaned before setup. Perpetuals tend to more easily lead to problems, as you never tear the room down and start over. When popping seeds, you might want to dip in Mycostop before planting in Lightwarrior if you're really paranoid. Steam cleaning, or heating your room to 140F will kill all spores before starting.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

IMO/IME grow a few cycles of bioactive soil and go heavy on the companion plants, esp. those that in nature are never attacked by fungi
The bioactivity ought to help outcompete any remaining spores
...

Wow, a quick search shows that barley and clover are both hammered by forms of fusarium. Finding suitable companion plants may not be simple. But an interesting study! Some vetches have been found to reduce fusarium wilt in watermelons when grown as a cover crop.

http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/php/research/2010/vetch/

Hairy Vetch seed is readily available in small quantities for use as a cover crop. It's interesting though that Johnny's Seeds mentions the Hairy Vetch as possibly having "allopathic properties" (chemically suppresses surrounding plants), which possibly might affect a co-growing cannabis.

 

[RetroGrow]

Aspirin in your rez, @325 Mg. per gallon, uncoated, will boost plant's immune system, so that it will be able to resist these opportunistic pathogens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylic_acid