Heart Attack Proof...

[Rukind]

What you're doing is you're burning your own fat, but what tends to happen first is your body will break down muscle tissues (proteins) first because those are a simpler molecule. Going into ketosis is not a good way to lose weight at all. My assertion was with regard to caloric intake via fat calories.

All I can say about your daily diet is... oh my God. I personally am no longer able to tolerate well that fat level or total consumption of meat, my guts (and bloodwork/overall health) just won't stand for it.

Do you eat no vegetables, but just fruit and potatoes comprise the total plant matter intake at this point? I'm thinking your diet is so high in fat that the food's just sliding right out of you. (JK!)(only 1/2)

I personally feel it's a little misleading to use a single person as an example for what the majority should do in terms of diet. There are so many other variables at play that this is one of those instances where generalizations should apply. Genetics, and epigenetics, are but one of those vast myriad variables exist.

yep that is right. that is all the plant matter i eat. Also I am not in ketosis. I checked my urine. I am KETONE ADAPTED.

I am telling you that you do use fat as energy. People eat this way for decades and are just fine.. not skinny and frail that is for sure

just look at the inuit eskimos. they mostly ate fat. some berries here and there.. I dont see why you cant understand that fat = energy.

I am not using a single person, there is message boards all around the internet of people eating this way for decades.. this one guy I know has eaten nothing but pemmican for 7 years.

I have perfectly fine bowl movements. I never feel bloated or anything. It's always solid and its usually small unless I eat over 3000 calories lol but it is never uncomfortable. it was way worse when i was eating carbs.

also it doesn't smell as bad, just putting that out there.

check out this thread on another message board (these are post made by owsley stanley) http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=287013

 

[dank.frank]

its tough to follow for westerners cause it basicly deals with fresh foods,so it can get expensive

This is one of the things that pisses me off the MOST about our western society. When a 2ltr of Coca-Cola and a bag of Doritos is cheap than a gallon of water and a bag of apples...what do you think the working class are going to eat?

I am surprised the OP did not make the connection between disease and diet sooner...or that more people do not.

What is the most profitable industry? Pharmaceuticals.

How do we sell them to people if they aren't all full of cancer and illnesses...we can't.

So what happens? The poor are fed fodder and the rich eat well. As a child, I could never figure out why unprocessed whole oats are more expensive than the steel cut instant kind. I mean, doesn't cutting them and treating them to cook in 3 min vs 15 min COST MORE MONEY TO PRODUCE? It does in fact. So why is it cheaper to purchase?....

The entire world is custom designed by those who have been heartless enough to pursue their greed...maybe pursuit of becoming a deity...

Ugh...I hate this topic. My blood pressure is up...I have sweaty palms and my knee is bouncing. Really gets me fired up how if you aren't rich you are nothing more than cattle.

Give 'em diseases but make sure we can keep 'em alive and producing. But now, they don't even care if we produce because they have taken that from us and given it to other regions of the world...now all we have to do is keep eating the processed shit in our stalls...


Sorry...I didn't even read the whole thread before I went into rant mode. DIET IS SO BEYOND IMPORTANT TO EVERY ASPECT OF OUR HUMANITY.

I know this will come to many with a grain of salt. BUT, BUT, if you want a good outline for an extremely healthy way of eating, read Leviticus 11...


dank.Frank

 

[Aksala]

All other sources of vitamin A are actually beta carotene. it has to be converted to vitamin A in the body. Apparently it is very inefficient.

I am no scientist I just go with what makes sense to me while keeping my mind open to all possibilities. I am not saying you are wrong or anything so chill. I am just trying to discuss these things that are important to me. I am sure we all want good health, right?

I am not trying to be smarter than you lol

Apparently it is very inefficient? So now it goes from there is literally only one thing in the world with vitamin A...to..ok there are others but "apparently" they are very inefficient...

So I have doctors telling me that you can get all the vitamins you need from veggies/fruits...literally...well minus vitamin D...that's one the doc says you should supplement if you are over 50...

But you are telling me the opposite? I don't understand your logic. Just because you can get more vitamins your way doesn't mean that its the only way...

From what I've read its much easier to get too much vitamin A then too little...and too much vitamin A is not good....as long as you eat a variety of fruits and veggies you are not gonna be short on vitamin A...

And telling me to chill and that you aren't trying to be smarter than me?

What does that even mean? Where was I not chill...don't take being passionate about something for being hostile...there is a VERY big difference.

You sound like a very condescending person by nature and adding little lines like...."and I am not trying to be smarter than you lol" kinda make you look like a dick.

 

[Rukind]

Apparently it is very inefficient? So now it goes from there is literally only one thing in the world with vitamin A...to..ok there are others but "apparently" they are very inefficient...

So I have doctors telling me that you can get all the vitamins you need from veggies/fruits...literally...well minus vitamin D...that's one the doc says you should supplement if you are over 50...

But you are telling me the opposite? I don't understand your logic. Just because you can get more vitamins your way doesn't mean that its the only way...

From what I've read its much easier to get too much vitamin A then too little...and too much vitamin A is not good....as long as you eat a variety of fruits and veggies you are not gonna be short on vitamin A...

And telling me to chill and that you aren't trying to be smarter than me?

What does that even mean? Where was I not chill...don't take being passionate about something for being hostile...there is a VERY big difference.

You sound like a very condescending person by nature and adding little lines like...."and I am not trying to be smarter than you lol" kinda make you look like a dick.

you didn't get my point about the vitamin A man. The only real source of vitamin A is liver. Beta carotene is not vitamin A. it becomes vitamin A when it is broken down in the body, but it is an inefficient way to get it. So yes, there is only 1 real source of vitamin A. You will have all the vitamin A you need if you ate liver twice a month. Yes vitamin A is toxic but how often are you gonna eat liver.. yuck..

I did not say its the only way! i said there is many ways of eating. what works for you is cool, but maybe there is a better way? I am saying that I feel this is the better way of eating. Maybe im wrong who the fuck knows. It makes the most sense to me. Just look at our history.. what does it tell you? keep it simple. We never used to know all the things we know now.. and we were still healthy.. food is simple.. we are high energy beings.. fat for energy makes sense. just like all other carnivores. the are high energy and need sustained energy.

I am not trying to be smarter than you. Whats with the ego? You are probably smarter than me.. who knows.. most people on this board are smarter than the average person. thats why we should be able to discuss this without saying who is smarter.. its not a who's dick is bigger contest.. so yes please chill. It is good that you are passionate about your health. I am too.

I am a very nice person and very open too all possibilities. I have had my ego broken down way to many times to let it get in the way of information. I am friendly so lets have a friendly conversation? I am just sharing the information that I have gathered in the least egotistical way possible

 

[nukklehead]

So what are some of the things you eat as part of an "Irish diet"?
I'm almost all Irish, so I'm interested in hearing, and maybe trying some of it myself.

As I said this is the diet I SHOULD follow but dont. Also regarding my American Indian background is a diet I SHOULD follow but dont.

Due to evolution/technology and hybridization of human groups
my theory doesnt hold true today. I really dont think it matters what we all eat because we are hybrids ( not pure strains) which is the minor issue. The major issue is mans contamination of the food chain in general. Years ago before trade was modernized, an ice man had no access to an africans,eskimos, far eastern, middle easterns mans diet and vice versa. Therefore they only ate what was locally available to them. Were they healthier? Im no scholar
nor do I have any evidence behind my opinion. The only anecdotal evidence I have is a small history of my indian ancestry, how they lived, what they ate etc. There lifespan was greater, medicines were as effective as most societies,,,, when the white man came along with technology of the time, diseases, tampered with nature, the indian became "unhealthy". So unless you can absolutely narrow your gene pool down ( which you cant) there isnt much diet can do for us hybrids. Is it good.. is it bad..??? I dont know. But eating as close to unprocessed/natural substances no matter what form they are meat, veg, fruit, nut, makes the most sense to me. But for the most part we are all screwed
It's not a matter of our internal organs changing, it's a matter of how our body utilizes (or doesn't) nutrients, on a chemical level. A good example is how one can geographically follow adult milk consumption. Typically whole milk isn't well tolerated by people who aren't of (generally) Nordic or northern Russ extraction. This is a 'genetic', or evolutionary adaption.

Kind of goes along with my unscientific theory

 

[ixnay007]

I understand what you're saying about milk, but yogurt for example has all the lactose already processed by the lactibacillus, so there's only a tiny bit of lacotse remaining in it..

Basically, unless you're 100% native, for example, 100% native american, eskimo, indian, asian, eastern european, etc, it's better to eat a diet with a bit of everything, and everything in moderation, except fresh veggies.

That's the way I see it.

Anyways, for lunch today, we ate handmade ravioli with a fresh tomato and basil sauce, eggplant parmesan and roasted chicken, with red wine to drink..

I may not be eating perfectly, but you know what, I'm happy, my stress is low, and I eat a bit from every food group, and I'm not obese by any manner of means. Food made fresh, little to nothing processed, and a lot of variety, and remember, you have to die.

 

[SeaMaiden]

yep that is right. that is all the plant matter i eat. Also I am not in ketosis. I checked my urine. I am KETONE ADAPTED.

I am telling you that you do use fat as energy. People eat this way for decades and are just fine.. not skinny and frail that is for sure

just look at the inuit eskimos. they mostly ate fat. some berries here and there.. I dont see why you cant understand that fat = energy.

I understand that, but I don't think you're picking up what I'm putting down here.
The human body does not use consumed fats directly as energy.
In order to extract energy from consumed fats, the body must go through a process of conversion.
The human body burns sugars for energy, not lipids.
This is scientifically established fact.

If the human body could easily extract energy from consumed fats, then products like Gu wouldn't be comprised of carbohydrates, would they? If consumed fats were directly converted to energy, then all athletes would not be carbo-loading, they'd be fat loading. The *only* way the human body can utilize consumed fats as energy is to convert them into glycogen.

Or, are you debating that function of physiology?

I am not using a single person, there is message boards all around the internet of people eating this way for decades.. this one guy I know has eaten nothing but pemmican for 7 years.

I have perfectly fine bowl movements. I never feel bloated or anything. It's always solid and its usually small unless I eat over 3000 calories lol but it is never uncomfortable. it was way worse when i was eating carbs.

also it doesn't smell as bad, just putting that out there.

check out this thread on another message board (these are post made by owsley stanley) http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=287013

Oh God, another fan of following BMs as an indicator of health!
Seriously, I was raised to pay attention to that sort of thing (just like you'd do with animals of all sorts).

I'll read the link more in-depth later, but the first couple of paragraphs make assertions that seem to fly in the face. I'll be discussing them with a professional dietitian and see if I can tease out more/better information. I know this much for sure--fructose is the only sugar that's immediately (or should I say, significantly more prone to be?) converted to fat in the body. I also know this much--body fat is converted to glycogen before it is used as energy.

The body cannot store dietary fat, there is no mechanism for transport across the adipose cell's wall, nor can it 'burn' carbs, which actually are toxic in more than the tiny amount required by the brain and a few other structures. The body converts dietary carbs (all convert to glucose as they are absorbed) into body fat. The conversion mechanism requires insulin which is very tissue-damaging. It is correct to say that dietary carbs are the base cause of both heart blockage and diabetes, (not a disease).

There is still a large body of evidence, based on clinical studies, that show that, overall, humans tend to be healthier when we eat a vegetable-based diet. That is not to say eliminate meats, it is not to say eliminate grains or nuts or anything else. It is to say that our foundation is screwed up if we think it should be based on meats or grains (certain human races excepted, there are those who are healthier feeding on their 'native' foodstuffs, fisherfolk and Inuit might be good examples here).

If we're going to use evolution as our example and basis from which to go on, a simple examination of hominin dentition would indicate a carnivorous-only diet to be an incorrect assumption. We are omnivores based on that alone. And the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the human population is rather strictly limited to a vegetable-based diet with rice as the primary source of grain intake, not to mention protenaceous intake is rather more unusual than what we in the west would consider (insects, arthropods, bugs, and other 'weird' animals). How do we explain that away? Even by simple numbers, they "outweigh" carnivorous people by I don't know how many-fold. We also cannot forget that much of the meat Paleolithic peoples ate was straight up carrion, spoiled. I'm not eating that and I'm not advocating it. There's a whole lot more that can be said about our evolution and bases for diets, too much.

In the meantime, some entertaining charts and graphics.

 

[Rukind]

saturated fat does not have to be converted to be used. that is wrong. your body uses it just as it is. carbs do have to be converted. fat does not.

when you cut out carbs, your body mimics starvation.. so the first week or 2 is pretty rough and then everything changes.. you get a boost of energy that last all day and you are rarely hungry. the first couple of weeks is called induction.

your body changes and starts burning fat as energy. it does not need to be converted to anything.

I was first recommended this diet because I have epilepsy from my doctor. No more epilepsy. Over half of children who go on the diet have at least a 50% reduction in the number of their seizures. Some children, usually 10-15%, even become seizure-free.

I was put on the diet when I started to get seizures when I was about 16. I think its more effective the faster you get on the diet. Although, my doctor recommended a ketogenic diet (its based off the same principles) but I was still spilling ketones cause I was eating about 100 carbs a day.

I quit eating like this for about 3 or 4 years and they never came back or anything. Now I just decided to go back to it because of the health benefits. I dropped my carbs even lower and I dont spill ketones. My body is burning fat as energy.

here is a quote from owsley stanley (who has been eating this way for over 47 years) "At this point I would like to point out that a zero carb diet does NOT cause ketosis. The body rapidly adapts within a few weeks and begins consuming the ketones from fat metabolism. A fully keto-adapted body excretes no ketones in the urine. A metabolic by product, 'ketone bodies' are actually a special kind of carb, and they substitute for glucose at the structures which use it. They have the added advantage of making you feel good- and well fed.

The body cannot store dietary fat, there is no mechanism for transport across the adipose cell's wall, nor can it 'burn' carbs, which actually are toxic in more than the tiny amount required by the brain and a few other structures. The body converts dietary carbs (all convert to glucose as they are absorbed) into body fat. The conversion mechanism requires insulin which is very tissue-damaging. It is correct to say that dietary carbs are the base cause of both heart blockage and diabetes, (not a disease)."

 

[Rukind]

also that pooping chart is ridiculous. If you eat meat a lot more than anything else you wont poop a lot because there isn't much to waste unless you eat a lot more calories than your body wants to use. I use the bathroom about every other day and its solid (not hard really) and not that stinky. I am not even going to go into this, but that is bad science. It is based off of 1 way of eating (the food pyramid? which is bullshit.. eat more grains than anything else, come on?) I feel like shit if i eat mostly grains..

also, i beleive fiber is not needed and in fact i find that, unless its soluble fiber, it just hurts my stomach. I feel a lot better and have better bowel movements by not eating vegetables. I like some fruits and maybe some potato's sometimes.. but that is soluble fiber. I cant help to eat some red bell peppers sometimes, though. Maybe once a week. I feel better if I dont.

i dont know why you think I follow my BM as guidance.. I only put that out there because most people say you need fiber or you will be extremely constipated or have the runs.. not the case


for more information on this way of eating read about Vilhalmur Stefansson
also Uffe Ravnskov has a lot of good information about heart health.

 

[nukklehead]

I understand what you're saying about milk, but yogurt for example has all the lactose already processed by the lactibacillus, so there's only a tiny bit of lacotse remaining in it..

Basically, unless you're 100% native, for example, 100% native american, eskimo, indian, asian, eastern european, etc, it's better to eat a diet with a bit of everything, and everything in moderation, except fresh veggies.

That's the way I see it.

Anyways, for lunch today, we ate handmade ravioli with a fresh tomato and basil sauce, eggplant parmesan and roasted chicken, with red wine to drink..

I may not be eating perfectly, but you know what, I'm happy, my stress is low, and I eat a bit from every food group, and I'm not obese by any manner of means. Food made fresh, little to nothing processed, and a lot of variety, and remember, you have to die.

ill go with that

 

[Aksala]

also that pooping chart is ridiculous. If you eat meat a lot more than anything else you wont poop a lot because there isn't much to waste unless you eat a lot more calories than your body wants to use. I use the bathroom about every other day and its solid (not hard really) and not that stinky. I am not even going to go into this, but that is bad science. It is based off of 1 way of eating (the food pyramid? which is bullshit.. eat more grains than anything else, come on?) I feel like shit if i eat mostly grains..

also, i beleive fiber is not needed and in fact i find that, unless its soluble fiber, it just hurts my stomach. I feel a lot better and have better bowel movements by not eating vegetables. I like some fruits and maybe some potato's sometimes.. but that is soluble fiber. I cant help to eat some red bell peppers sometimes, though. Maybe once a week. I feel better if I dont.

i dont know why you think I follow my BM as guidance.. I only put that out there because most people say you need fiber or you will be extremely constipated or have the runs.. not the case


for more information on this way of eating read about Vilhalmur Stefansson
also Uffe Ravnskov has a lot of good information about heart health.

I'm no longer taking you serious at anything you say....I'm convinced yer just a troll...there is no way you can be as stupid as you sound.

 

[NiteTiger]

Ok, ok, I'm not anti-healthy eating, but some of the phrasing used here is... poor.

First off, those who are claiming the prehistoric diets are not thinking this through all the way. Are you really claiming that prehistoric cultures were more healthy? Really???

Average life span in prehistoric times was about 30 years. We started breeding in our early teens (and I mean EARLY), because 15 was middle age. You sprouted a pubic hair, and you damn well better be able to kill something and drag it home, or else your ass was going to starve to death.

In fact, most of the information we have regarding ancient rites indicates that manhood was indicated by prowess in battle or hunting. Not a damn thing about gathering berries like some WoW quest Not even for the women. Their worth was judged more by the maintenance of hearth and home. Well, that and poppiing out babies like Pez dispensers. If a girl got to 16 without a husband and a child, bad sign.

Thing is, you go out and find one stand of wild rice, and after a days work of processing, you have enough for maybe one day. Very inefficient use of time and energy.

However, you go out and find one deer, and you feed your family for weeks. Bonus, in the time it takes to thresh a field of anything, you can find more than one deer. Score!

Good day hunting, eat for months. Good day gathering, eat for a week... maybe.

You do the math. Because even a caveman can do that math

So, no, vegan is the absolute antithesis of ancient human culture. Especially, pre-agrarian culture.

You point to a shift to agriculture as a bad thing, yet immediately endorse it with your choices. How? Because a vegan lifestyle is not possible without agriculture. You simply would not have the food to survive the winter without incorporating animal products.

Remember, this was before preservatives and the understanding of many food spoilage issues. Stocking up was possible through drying, but even dry foods are susceptible to rot that we simply do not have to deal with today. Next time you're buying your organic veggies in winter, realize that if it weren't for modern agriculture, your vegan butt would starve to death.

You want to talk about evidence? Look no farther than your own teeth. We simply do not have the equipment necessary to meet our dietary needs through plants alone. We do not have the thick enamel, or large molars herbivores need to masticate raw leaves and stalks for nutrition. You can't graze, period.

On the flip side, are we carnivores? No. We do not have the specialized equipment. No fangs or sharp points of a predator devoted solely to meat. In fact, we know for certain that man cannot survive on meat alone. Scurvy, anyone?

No, we're omnivores. We can eat everything. Put us in any eco-system, and we can survive. Nothing but moss on rocks? We can eat that. Nothing but fish? We can eat that.

It's why we're number one on the food chain. Don't believe me? Look at the other large omnivores, bears, for instance. Totally opportunistic omnivores, and absolutely the master of their domains. At least until the no-fang, no-claw, tail-less monkey figured out how to sharpen a stick

The other thing that irritates me about this "diet like a neanderthal, they didn't have cancer" idea is it ignores some pretty glaring facts.

First off, who the fuck says prehistoric humans didn't have cancer? They still had radon and other natural carcinogens in the environment. Was it cancer? No, it was evil spirits. Of course, what you called it really didn't matter to the guy who's got it.

Heart disease? Well, hmmmm, let's think about this one a bit. I could actually agree that maybe prehistoric humans didn't suffer from heart disease. Problem with the argument is that most heart disease becomes a life threatening issue in late middle age, in your 40s to 60s by today's standards.

In prehistoric times, living to 60 was a gift from the gods, and quite surprising. Hell, by the time you were 50, you'd probably outlived most of your generation by more than a decade.

So, did digested fat work differently for early humans? Nah, they just didn't live long enough to have it be an issue

Now, on the flip side, meat wasn't nearly as abundant as today. You wanted a burger, you had to take your sharp stick and square off against a healthy buffalo. I bet a modern human would piss out more weight than they'd gain from the burger in that situation

You didn't have sausage for breakfast, ham for lunch, and steak for dinner. Just didn't happen, unless maybe you were King High Poo-bah or something.

And processed? Not unless you consider drying a process Hand your average person today a few sticks of jerky and tell them that's all the meat they get

So, I'll agree that a change in diet that eliminates most processed foods and most meats is a change for the better. Claiming you're living by prehistoric diets while never touching an animal product is just delusional.

You want the "health" of prehistoric humans? Go exercise vigorously as long as it is daylight. Remember, every waking moment of our ancestors survival was devoted to surviving. Wake up in the morning, and go hike to a river, hoist out ~ 5 gallons of water for each hand, and bring it back. Now make a fire (you did gather firewood yesterday, right?) from rocks. Boil the water (or die from micro-organisms that aren't a modern phenomenon), and add some pine needles for flavor. Ahh, a nice relaxing cup of tea to start your day.

You haven't made it to breakfast and you've probably used more calories than many industrialized humans do in a day.

For breakfast, you're probably eating leftovers, or a gruel of ground nuts and roots, with MAYBE some berries if you've kept the lady happy. Good times. Now, do you want to spend the next few hours hunting, fishing, or fighting? It's one of the three, and you don't always have a choice.

You go live the life of early man, and you'll be in the best fuckin' shape of your life, and you'll die slowly and painfully if you ignore animal-based food sources.

I don't mind people making their own food choices, and I applaud those who can choose an inherently unnatural diet and make it work. It takes an extraordinary amount of discipline and knowledge to do it right.

Thing is, that discipline is something early man didn't have the luxury of developing. Early man was about surviving, period. If there was a food source ignored, you wouldn't be here to have this argument.

I have nothing against sustainable foods, and nothing against those who choose to practice a vegan lifestyle. More power to you! I can say I have yet to meet a vegan I couldn't tempt to the darkside, though Do I think they're weak? No.

I think they're human.

Quit ascribing your modern thinking on a phenomenon only available to our modern culture to prehistoric humans.

It is simply inaccurate, and completely dismissive of the struggles our ancestors faced on a daily basis.

And eggs? One of the best sources of protein available, and you think they ignored that in favor of finding a field of wild soy? HAH!

C'mon guys, inject a tad bit of common sense here. Make your choices, and they're yours, and I can respect that. You're vegan? Awesome. Stand up and tell the world that you're completely dependent on big agriculture for your survival. I support you.

But don't stand up here and claim superiority on false grounds.

You want to say natural non-processed foods are exponentially better for you than processed foods? Amen brother!

You want to say "I'm a vegan because that's how humans were made", then I laugh at you and know you don't have the slightest clue where you fall on the evolutionary chart.

Be natural, but be real at the same time.

 

[NiteTiger]

Ok, that was longer than I meant for it to be.

TL;DR - Vegetarian is an ancient word meaning "bad hunter"

 

[Aksala]

Who was claiming they are vegan because that's how humans were made?

 

[narko]

^^

 

[narko]

Vegetarian is an ancient word meaning "bad hunter"

come on even a cave man dont believe
this bullshit.

 

[High Country]

Don't smoke pot though...cos that will fuck up your lungs.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Certainly, eating better makes your brain bigger and you more intelligent, but changes in your environment affect you.. for example, look at our hobby, the way you feed your plants will make them grow better or worse, but the advantages they gain from being fed well mean that they will produce good quality seeds, but to have the seeds grow well, you have to feed them properly too. They won't grow better than their genes allow, just like humans can't.

Better food means healthier, healthier means more survive, more survivors mean evolution can select for other traits.

Better food is a environmental pressure, just like disease, or a volcano exploding.

If you grow 2 strains together as mothers in a room for like 5 years one sativa and one indica, they will eventually end up on the same flower cycle and start to resemble them selves. I think because the environment is highly controlled, the process speeds it's self up. I have seen that happen. I have even heard that eventually one will Hermie in flower, but have never seen that.

This is why instead of keeping moms, I just take fresh handful of clones from the previous girls, and keep the healthiest few.

 

[Rukind]

I'm no longer taking you serious at anything you say....I'm convinced yer just a troll...there is no way you can be as stupid as you sound.

the only point in arguing is not for victory, but progress. Read my resources if you are interested, if not that is fine. I only want to live a healthy life. I want to find the best way of eating. I know I am not going to live forever but I want to feel good while I am here.

you have no response to my comments and my research so I am a troll? Also, I am stupid? I dont know why you have lowered yourself to insults. This isn't a competition. I guess that shows a lot about the person you are. I can no longer reply to your comments, you are the troll. It is pointless to go on any further. Nothing will be achieved. I recommend about 5 grams of cubensis.

This is why people cannot get a long. I believe the only way for humanity to be successful is to open our minds to all possibilities and abide in harmony with our environment.

------

Back on topic:

Here are some links I like if anyone is interested in understanding my way of eating. I have already posted some of these, I figured I would put them all together in one post. There is a lot of research out there. This is just some of the stuff that got me first interested in this way of eating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uffe_Ravnskov
http://thebear.org/essays1.html#anchor496162
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=287013
http://forum.dirtycarnivore.com/index.php?topic=1100.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVEiYwFvKvU

 

[Rukind]

Ok, ok, I'm not anti-healthy eating, but some of the phrasing used here is... poor.

First off, those who are claiming the prehistoric diets are not thinking this through all the way. Are you really claiming that prehistoric cultures were more healthy? Really???

Average life span in prehistoric times was about 30 years. We started breeding in our early teens (and I mean EARLY), because 15 was middle age. You sprouted a pubic hair, and you damn well better be able to kill something and drag it home, or else your ass was going to starve to death.

In fact, most of the information we have regarding ancient rites indicates that manhood was indicated by prowess in battle or hunting. Not a damn thing about gathering berries like some WoW quest Not even for the women. Their worth was judged more by the maintenance of hearth and home. Well, that and poppiing out babies like Pez dispensers. If a girl got to 16 without a husband and a child, bad sign.

Thing is, you go out and find one stand of wild rice, and after a days work of processing, you have enough for maybe one day. Very inefficient use of time and energy.

However, you go out and find one deer, and you feed your family for weeks. Bonus, in the time it takes to thresh a field of anything, you can find more than one deer. Score!

Good day hunting, eat for months. Good day gathering, eat for a week... maybe.

You do the math. Because even a caveman can do that math

So, no, vegan is the absolute antithesis of ancient human culture. Especially, pre-agrarian culture.

You point to a shift to agriculture as a bad thing, yet immediately endorse it with your choices. How? Because a vegan lifestyle is not possible without agriculture. You simply would not have the food to survive the winter without incorporating animal products.

Remember, this was before preservatives and the understanding of many food spoilage issues. Stocking up was possible through drying, but even dry foods are susceptible to rot that we simply do not have to deal with today. Next time you're buying your organic veggies in winter, realize that if it weren't for modern agriculture, your vegan butt would starve to death.

You want to talk about evidence? Look no farther than your own teeth. We simply do not have the equipment necessary to meet our dietary needs through plants alone. We do not have the thick enamel, or large molars herbivores need to masticate raw leaves and stalks for nutrition. You can't graze, period.

On the flip side, are we carnivores? No. We do not have the specialized equipment. No fangs or sharp points of a predator devoted solely to meat. In fact, we know for certain that man cannot survive on meat alone. Scurvy, anyone?

No, we're omnivores. We can eat everything. Put us in any eco-system, and we can survive. Nothing but moss on rocks? We can eat that. Nothing but fish? We can eat that.

It's why we're number one on the food chain. Don't believe me? Look at the other large omnivores, bears, for instance. Totally opportunistic omnivores, and absolutely the master of their domains. At least until the no-fang, no-claw, tail-less monkey figured out how to sharpen a stick

The other thing that irritates me about this "diet like a neanderthal, they didn't have cancer" idea is it ignores some pretty glaring facts.

First off, who the fuck says prehistoric humans didn't have cancer? They still had radon and other natural carcinogens in the environment. Was it cancer? No, it was evil spirits. Of course, what you called it really didn't matter to the guy who's got it.

Heart disease? Well, hmmmm, let's think about this one a bit. I could actually agree that maybe prehistoric humans didn't suffer from heart disease. Problem with the argument is that most heart disease becomes a life threatening issue in late middle age, in your 40s to 60s by today's standards.

In prehistoric times, living to 60 was a gift from the gods, and quite surprising. Hell, by the time you were 50, you'd probably outlived most of your generation by more than a decade.

So, did digested fat work differently for early humans? Nah, they just didn't live long enough to have it be an issue

Now, on the flip side, meat wasn't nearly as abundant as today. You wanted a burger, you had to take your sharp stick and square off against a healthy buffalo. I bet a modern human would piss out more weight than they'd gain from the burger in that situation

You didn't have sausage for breakfast, ham for lunch, and steak for dinner. Just didn't happen, unless maybe you were King High Poo-bah or something.

And processed? Not unless you consider drying a process Hand your average person today a few sticks of jerky and tell them that's all the meat they get

So, I'll agree that a change in diet that eliminates most processed foods and most meats is a change for the better. Claiming you're living by prehistoric diets while never touching an animal product is just delusional.

You want the "health" of prehistoric humans? Go exercise vigorously as long as it is daylight. Remember, every waking moment of our ancestors survival was devoted to surviving. Wake up in the morning, and go hike to a river, hoist out ~ 5 gallons of water for each hand, and bring it back. Now make a fire (you did gather firewood yesterday, right?) from rocks. Boil the water (or die from micro-organisms that aren't a modern phenomenon), and add some pine needles for flavor. Ahh, a nice relaxing cup of tea to start your day.

You haven't made it to breakfast and you've probably used more calories than many industrialized humans do in a day.

For breakfast, you're probably eating leftovers, or a gruel of ground nuts and roots, with MAYBE some berries if you've kept the lady happy. Good times. Now, do you want to spend the next few hours hunting, fishing, or fighting? It's one of the three, and you don't always have a choice.

You go live the life of early man, and you'll be in the best fuckin' shape of your life, and you'll die slowly and painfully if you ignore animal-based food sources.

I don't mind people making their own food choices, and I applaud those who can choose an inherently unnatural diet and make it work. It takes an extraordinary amount of discipline and knowledge to do it right.

Thing is, that discipline is something early man didn't have the luxury of developing. Early man was about surviving, period. If there was a food source ignored, you wouldn't be here to have this argument.

I have nothing against sustainable foods, and nothing against those who choose to practice a vegan lifestyle. More power to you! I can say I have yet to meet a vegan I couldn't tempt to the darkside, though Do I think they're weak? No.

I think they're human.

Quit ascribing your modern thinking on a phenomenon only available to our modern culture to prehistoric humans.

It is simply inaccurate, and completely dismissive of the struggles our ancestors faced on a daily basis.

And eggs? One of the best sources of protein available, and you think they ignored that in favor of finding a field of wild soy? HAH!

C'mon guys, inject a tad bit of common sense here. Make your choices, and they're yours, and I can respect that. You're vegan? Awesome. Stand up and tell the world that you're completely dependent on big agriculture for your survival. I support you.

But don't stand up here and claim superiority on false grounds.

You want to say natural non-processed foods are exponentially better for you than processed foods? Amen brother!

You want to say "I'm a vegan because that's how humans were made", then I laugh at you and know you don't have the slightest clue where you fall on the evolutionary chart.

Be natural, but be real at the same time.

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