Heart Attack Proof...

[AndreNicky]

the kid got mother milk and after she stopped breastfeeding it was forced to become vegan( not that a kid would have any problem with it...). in the beginning i was like wtf this child is gonna starve... now he is 17 years old and nobody would know hes been vegan all his life without him telling.

The true test will be the health of his children. Also if the mom was smart about supplementation her diet might not have been that lackluster, you also have to remember that people tend to lie. Who knows how many animal products she was secretly eating?

 

[narko]

why would she lie about that ? nobody admired her everybody was like wtf. from todays perspective i think it didnt harm the boy because as vegan you can eat just as healthy as an omnivore. its just more stress to do so you really have to think about your diet.

 

[Bacchus]

...
The other factor that the doctor seems to be ignoring (and I'm gleaning this from the original post only) is consumption of highly processed carbohydrates and the role they actually play in higher heart disease rates. Eliminate processed carbohydrates, seriously increase vegetable matter, reduce fatty meat consumption, eat the damn nuts (because it's already been shown that by having yourself about a small handful of nuts daily you can reduce your risk of developing diabetes by about 20%, and diabetes is just as much a health risk, if not more so), and have more veggies.....

Excellent post

Avoid beef feed with corn!!! Not a natural food for them. The drugs they are fed in feed lots to avoid disease and to be able to process these grains are insane.

I do think it is fine to eat animal meat, as long as it was raised on a natural diet for the animal.


thanks for sharing your expierence aksala!!!!

BTW, I think tofu blows donkey

 

[Rukind]

^ man you should distinguish between your personal opinion and truth/reality. i know a vegan ( shes been practicing for over 25 years) who got pregnant. the kid got mother milk and after she stopped breastfeeding it was forced to become vegan( not that a kid would have any problem with it...). in the beginning i was like wtf this child is gonna starve... now he is 17 years old and nobody would know hes been vegan all his life without him telling. sam goes foor the mother. i guess everybody should just eat what he feels like/tastes good/is morally acceptable( thats why you become vegan mostly i guess).
i am vegetarian for 10 years now and i must say my health improved quite alot although i dont think this has anything to do with my eating its more the mind healing.

bout that owsley stanley : google vegan bodybuilding and you will see that vegans are healthy as well.

yeah man I understand there is more ways to skin a cat than just one. This is just from my experience.

The truth is, we have been eating meat for a lot longer than we have been eating vegetables. I didn't say you could not. I know people who do, but they dont look healthy.. Maybe there is some healthy vegans, i just dont know one. I know a lot, though.

The main point I am making is that we have only been eating vegetables oils for a very short time, because it requires a chemical processing plant. You cant squeeze the fat out of soybeans lol

Also we just learned agriculture about 10 to 15 thousand years ago.

When I look at our history, I see that meat played a much bigger role in our food than anything else. Also we have more heart disease and other health issues than ever before. It just keeps rising as we lower our fat intake.

Now Denmark is considering taxing saturated fat products (meat) because they say it makes people fat lol

 

[SeaMaiden]

Excellent post

Avoid beef feed with corn!!! Not a natural food for them. The drugs they are fed in feed lots to avoid disease and to be able to process these grains are insane.

I do think it is fine to eat animal meat, as long as it was raised on a natural diet for the animal.


thanks for sharing your expierence aksala!!!!

BTW, I think tofu blows donkey

But you haven't had my crispy fried tofu.

Seriously.

Avoid other non-corn eating animals that have been fleshed out with it. While you're at it, go ahead and go for the organically raised animals. It's now been proven that it's not only healthier in terms of nutrition, it's healthier because they don't get exposed to the same microbes that animals reared in CAFOs are, and therefore don't require the same degree of treatment.

There's a whole lot more I could say, but I'll save it for now. I mean, I'm pretty crazy, I make yogurt in the microwave.

 

[nukklehead]

My unscientific theory is this... ( FWIW) Genotype and environment have always played a role in evolution .. Come on.. the ice man/african/nordic/eskimo/indian could not have had the same diet.

What I do believe is man has manipulated the food chain and contaminated it.

Where your genes lie ( nordic, indian, anglo, african, chink, spic, cracker, negro..) plays a major part in the diet you "SHOULD" be following based on your ancestry character.....

It is "MAN" who has contaminated the food source.

A diet similar to the indians and irish ( my decendents) is healthiest for me. Keeping the sources closest to nature not contaminated by "MAN" is the key. The more "MAN" fucks with shit the worse it gets.

If you take the above ancestral groups and force them into a "non natural diet" there disease processes will reflect that of the general public.

If you put a non mediterranean on a mediterranean diet it will make no difference ( from an african, middle east, nordic, european perspective) regarding heart disease or other diseases etc.

But due to genetics, a mediterranean or one with mediterranean ancestry will respond appropriately.

Bottom line, unless you follow your ancestry to a T and the diet they followed for ultimate health "minus the integration of MAN"
you will be diseased like everyone else.

In summary if you dont know your ancestry... ( some if you do)
Keep your diet as far away as man made modifications.

Doesnt matter if you are eating raw buffalo on the plains, Fresh seal and whale in the north, Seafood for those populations,
Wild beast in whatever... The closer to nature and your genetic structure the better.

 

[bentom187]

.........

 

[ixnay007]

Pick on me all you want...

I believe Dr. McDougall and Dr. Esselstyn over anything you say...

Also...so you telling me that people who use olive oil daily don't get heart disease?

and you kinda made my point on the genetic thing....because the diet doesn't change my genes....what it does it keep those genes that carry cancer and heart disease from ever exposing themselves in the first place...

Do you realize that people have literally cured themselves of cancer with nothing more than a change to a low fat plant based diet?

So go ahead and "pick on me" with your vast knowledge....

I'll choose to keep doing what I'm doing...down 21lbs and feeling amazing...

No, I'm saying if olive oil was the cause of so many heart attacks, a good part of europe would have much lower population, I'd say maybe it would have been an evolutionary pressure, but most people have heart attacks later in life, well after the time that they have had children. Believe me, olive oil is an integral part of the diet here, and people who eat less red meat, more legumes, fresh veggies and drink moderate amounts of red wine have quite low heart attack rates.

I'm glad that some people have cured cancer that way.. there are plenty of studies that point to insulin as a big part of cancer (most cancers use it as energy) so low carb diets can help, but I wouldn't risk my life on it.

You're down 21 lbs, because you ate like shit, now you are eating much better.

I wouldn't skip the regular testing though, you may be able to reduce your risk of heart disease, but your genes predispose you for it..

 

[Rukind]

My unscientific theory is this... ( FWIW) Genotype and environment have always played a role in evolution .. Come on.. the ice man/african/nordic/eskimo/indian could not have had the same diet.

What I do believe is man has manipulated the food chain and contaminated it.

Where your genes lie ( nordic, indian, anglo, african, chink, spic, cracker, negro..) plays a major part in the diet you "SHOULD" be following based on your ancestry character.....

It is "MAN" who has contaminated the food source.

A diet similar to the indians and irish ( my decendents) is healthiest for me. Keeping the sources closest to nature not contaminated by "MAN" is the key. The more "MAN" fucks with shit the worse it gets.

If you take the above ancestral groups and force them into a "non natural diet" there disease processes will reflect that of the general public.

If you put a non mediterranean on a mediterranean diet it will make no difference ( from an african, middle east, nordic, european perspective) regarding heart disease or other diseases etc.

But due to genetics, a mediterranean or one with mediterranean ancestry will respond appropriately.

Bottom line, unless you follow your ancestry to a T and the diet they followed for ultimate health "minus the integration of MAN"
you will be diseased like everyone else.

In summary if you dont know your ancestry... ( some if you do)
Keep your diet as far away as man made modifications.

Doesnt matter if you are eating raw buffalo on the plains, Fresh seal and whale in the north, Seafood for those populations,
Wild beast in whatever... The closer to nature and your genetic structure the better.

if this is true, why are we all very alike internally? why do plants (like cannabis) use the same types of food no matter where it was found? Cats always seem to be carnivore's to me. Lions, tigers, even house cats.

everything can adapt to its environment, but the make up is the same and should require the same types of food right? the body was built around it.

meat has all the amino acids that a human being needs.

I dont think anything has changed in our evolution in 10,000 years. Considering we have been around longer than 500,000! and we ate meat all the way up until agriculture came out.

Carnivores can eat vegetables too! we aren't the only species that can eat meat and veggies. Carnivores just eat veggies as last resort or just to eat something for the hell of it. My dog eats grass sometimes.

Also, have you ever noticed herbivore's cannot get high on cannabis? Deer eat that shit like crazy and aren't even slightly effected.. give it to a dog or cat and they are fucked up.

 

[wantaknow]

http://hsionlineorders.net/video/HSI_7most_signup_esub_OLP/?pco=LHSIM925&xco=XHSIM925&efo=HSIOP10 listen to this short infomercial its very interesting

 

[Puffaluffagus]

A diet similar to the indians and irish ( my decendents) is healthiest for me. .

So what are some of the things you eat as part of an "Irish diet"?
I'm almost all Irish, so I'm interested in hearing, and maybe trying some of it myself.

 

[SeaMaiden]

That might be the beer and potato diet. Potatoes are a New World food well-embraced by the Irish, right?

No, I'm saying if olive oil was the cause of so many heart attacks, a good part of europe would have much lower population, I'd say maybe it would have been an evolutionary pressure, but most people have heart attacks later in life, well after the time that they have had children. Believe me, olive oil is an integral part of the diet here, and people who eat less red meat, more legumes, fresh veggies and drink moderate amounts of red wine have quite low heart attack rates.

Not anymore. And I personally believe we can thank 'our' incredibly high intake of processed carbohydrates for that. There was a SciAm article I read well over 10 years ago about a study that compared Japanese with Greek HA rates. Greeks eat far more fats than Japanese do, including animal fats, yet have markedly lower HA rates. The difference found in diet was carbohydrates, not fats. They ate equivalent volumes of vegetable matter, too.

I'm glad that some people have cured cancer that way.. there are plenty of studies that point to insulin as a big part of cancer (most cancers use it as energy) so low carb diets can help, but I wouldn't risk my life on it.

You're down 21 lbs, because you ate like shit, now you are eating much better.

I wouldn't skip the regular testing though, you may be able to reduce your risk of heart disease, but your genes predispose you for it..

Me, either. Plus, what about all the studies linking cancer to viruses.

Rukind, did you know that white skin has only evolved in the last 20,000 years or so? Are you familiar with punctuated equilibrium? Why are Native Americans so physiologically tied to their diets, to the point that if they consume western food they're prone to awful diabetes, heart conditions, and overall incredibly poor health? They've only been on the continent for approximately 14,000years or so, so...? How about epigenetics?

 

[Rukind]

That might be the beer and potato diet. Potatoes are a New World food well-embraced by the Irish, right?

Not anymore. And I personally believe we can thank 'our' incredibly high intake of processed carbohydrates for that. There was a SciAm article I read well over 10 years ago about a study that compared Japanese with Greek HA rates. Greeks eat far more fats than Japanese do, including animal fats, yet have markedly lower HA rates. The difference found in diet was carbohydrates, not fats. They ate equivalent volumes of vegetable matter, too.

Me, either. Plus, what about all the studies linking cancer to viruses.

Rukind, did you know that white skin has only evolved in the last 20,000 years or so? Are you familiar with punctuated equilibrium? Why are Native Americans so physiologically tied to their diets, to the point that if they consume western food they're prone to awful diabetes, heart conditions, and overall incredibly poor health? They've only been on the continent for approximately 14,000years or so, so...? How about epigenetics?

Most native americans that i personally know (cherokee) eat mostly meat and even raw eggs sometimes. they also eat vegetables every now and then. I have a lot of cherokee in my blood. My grandmother is full cherokee.

skin pigment can easily change within 20,000 years. that just has to do with where we are located on the equator. I would think that would be a lot easier to adapt too. However our internal organs are pretty much the same world wide. Meat has been our diet forever and its everywhere.

Also like i said, poly unsaturated vegetable oil hasn't even been around for a hundred years.

I am not saying humans cant adapt to any other way of eating but animal fat is the most important food we can possibly eat. I think the human diet is truly a carnivores one.

I am open to change my opinion on this at any time in my life just like anything else. I am very open minded and if i see the evidence proving this wrong ill take it. I just havn't read anything that proves any of this wrong.

I look back through our history and meat is what we had We would dry the lean meat out and boil the fat and mix it together to make pemmican. 1 pound a day is all you needed to survive and travel.

other little foods we found a long the way like nuts and whatever else we could find was a rare item.

we also used every part of the animals even their skins as clothes.

a steak has every animo acid that we need.

I have never felt better in my life. It is working for me and I have tried a lot of different ways of eating. I didn't start this way of eating because of weight. My weight was fine. I did it for better health and it is paying off.

I am not familiar with punctuated equilibrium? what is it?

also what is epigenetics?

 

[SeaMaiden]

Punctuated equilibrium is 'new' theory that ties into Theory of Evolution. It states that at times evolution can occur very quickly, in spurts. Typical evolutionary theory states that changes *only* occur over long periods of time, and that is simply not always the case.

Epigenetics is an area of study that shows that how one's parents and even grandparents lived and ate can affect health of progeny, on a genetic level.

See, people tend to view chromosomes and genetic expression as very black and white, it's either on (expressing) or off. Such is not the case. There are additional switches that factor into expression, and there is what might better be described as a sliding scale of expression.

Melatonin levels in skin changed in direct response to Vitamin D uptake by pregnant women. You cannot give birth to a healthy offspring if you have not been able to synthesize sufficient Vitamin D. This is why dark-skinned women living in extreme northern latitudes can have problems and need to pay special attention to nutrition during pregnancy.

You see, I was raised by a doctor and a dietitian (she has a Master's in her area of specialty), which means I have a decidedly different view of doctors and their words on nutrition. I don't take a doctor's word for it, I go to a food scientist because, as my mother is so often wont to say, "Doctors don't know SHIT about nutrition."

Balance is really the key, and believe it or not we westerners might enjoy a little more health if we made our diet more omnivorous, i.e. ate more bugs. I personally just can't get into the 'crunchy on the outside gooey on the inside' thing. I am a huge fan of escargot, though!

 

[Rukind]

I can see how skin can change pretty quick but not so much diet. Our internal organs would have to change a lot.

carbs you have to convert for energy
beta carotene you have to convert energy
etc..

but saturated fat does not. your body absorbs that natural. no conversion process needed. also liver IS the only source of vitamin A in the world. meat has all the amino acids as well. our brains are made of fat.

idk it just seems to me like thats what i should eat. its also fucking delicious. I cant get enough of my rib eye steaks.

I have been eating more than I used too and I have lost a little weight and look healthier. Also I my attitude is usually calm now and my moods dont swing nearly as much. things are good I must say and im happy I started eating this way. it was hard at first. I still eat sometimes 40 carbs a day if i feel like it. Eventually I want to cut carbs completely.

 

[Aksala]

So how do you figure liver is the only source of vitamin A when I keep seeing so many things that tell me different...

Explain that one to me.

Also beans and lentils have all the amino acids also....

Sure they aren't "complete" proteins but I make sure to have all kinds of different beans throughout the week...

This week we made a 13-bean soup with carrots,potatos,celery,onion and squash in it...

And gotta tell you..it was amazing.

Also nutritional yeast is a complete protein and I eat a little bit of that pretty much everyday....as well as flax seed meal for omega3's...

Bottom line...I'm happy as a pig in shit and my stress levels have never been lower...as well as my blood pressure now sits at about 105/70 and I'm a 36 year old man that weighs 226lbs....

So....what works for you works for you....this is working exceptionally well..

I do love how suddenly everyone is a scientist now and has their own expert opinion...

 

[SeaMaiden]

It's not a matter of our internal organs changing, it's a matter of how our body utilizes (or doesn't) nutrients, on a chemical level. A good example is how one can geographically follow adult milk consumption. Typically whole milk isn't well tolerated by people who aren't of (generally) Nordic or northern Russ extraction. This is a 'genetic', or evolutionary adaption.

Yes, meat has all aminos, and there is good research that shows that exclusively vegan diets can cause problems for some people, but geographic extraction really plays into it. Do you think you could consume, for instance, a diet very high in whale and seal fat, perhaps consisting of nothing but, and remain healthy? Not all things are good for all people, and there are genetic reasons for this. Believe it or not, but between punctuated equilibrium and epigenetics (did your parents or grandparents eat well as children, or did they starve?) much can be changed, this theory of evolution, being a scientific theory, really is that malleable.

Another for instance: People with rheumatoid arthritis should not eat peppers because of how certain alkaloids found in peppers (and some other Solanaceous plant matter) can exacerbate symptoms of RA.

You need carbohydrates to make energy. Fat from animal meat is not energy, it cannot be converted to energy. Neither is protein converted to energy. Gain those carbohydrates from vegetable matter primarily over grain matter and you'll be doing alright. But, if you're like me and you can live on beans and rice, you're still doing alright because you're getting a complete suite of amino acids (the combination forms a complete protein). I wouldn't raise a child or someone with health issues on such a diet, I would definitely include meats, but I would never eliminate carbohydrates entirely.

What do you mean by 40 carbs a day? I apologize, but I don't know what that means.

As long as you're eating fewer calories than you expend on a daily basis, and especially if you've "surprised" your body by making a significant change in diet, and ESPECIALLY if you're a male, you *are* going to lose weight. Period.

I can tell y'all some stuff about fructose, too. Did you know that it's the only sugar the human body never uses for energy? Did you know that it immediately lays it down as fat? Yep. All fructose from all sources, i.e. all fruit. In my world, that was a huuuuuuuge bummer.

 

[Rukind]

So how do you figure liver is the only source of vitamin A when I keep seeing so many things that tell me different...

Explain that one to me.

Also beans and lentils have all the amino acids also....

Sure they aren't "complete" proteins but I make sure to have all kinds of different beans throughout the week...

This week we made a 13-bean soup with carrots,potatos,celery,onion and squash in it...

And gotta tell you..it was amazing.

Also nutritional yeast is a complete protein and I eat a little bit of that pretty much everyday....as well as flax seed meal for omega3's...

Bottom line...I'm happy as a pig in shit and my stress levels have never been lower...as well as my blood pressure now sits at about 105/70 and I'm a 36 year old man that weighs 226lbs....

So....what works for you works for you....this is working exceptionally well..

I do love how suddenly everyone is a scientist now and has their own expert opinion...

All other sources of vitamin A are actually beta carotene. it has to be converted to vitamin A in the body. Apparently it is very inefficient.

I am no scientist I just go with what makes sense to me while keeping my mind open to all possibilities. I am not saying you are wrong or anything so chill. I am just trying to discuss these things that are important to me. I am sure we all want good health, right?

I am not trying to be smarter than you lol

 

[Rukind]

It's not a matter of our internal organs changing, it's a matter of how our body utilizes (or doesn't) nutrients, on a chemical level. A good example is how one can geographically follow adult milk consumption. Typically whole milk isn't well tolerated by people who aren't of (generally) Nordic or northern Russ extraction. This is a 'genetic', or evolutionary adaption.

Yes, meat has all aminos, and there is good research that shows that exclusively vegan diets can cause problems for some people, but geographic extraction really plays into it. Do you think you could consume, for instance, a diet very high in whale and seal fat, perhaps consisting of nothing but, and remain healthy? Not all things are good for all people, and there are genetic reasons for this. Believe it or not, but between punctuated equilibrium and epigenetics (did your parents or grandparents eat well as children, or did they starve?) much can be changed, this theory of evolution, being a scientific theory, really is that malleable.

Another for instance: People with rheumatoid arthritis should not eat peppers because of how certain alkaloids found in peppers (and some other Solanaceous plant matter) can exacerbate symptoms of RA.

You need carbohydrates to make energy. Fat from animal meat is not energy, it cannot be converted to energy. Neither is protein converted to energy. Gain those carbohydrates from vegetable matter primarily over grain matter and you'll be doing alright. But, if you're like me and you can live on beans and rice, you're still doing alright because you're getting a complete suite of amino acids (the combination forms a complete protein). I wouldn't raise a child or someone with health issues on such a diet, I would definitely include meats, but I would never eliminate carbohydrates entirely.

What do you mean by 40 carbs a day? I apologize, but I don't know what that means.

As long as you're eating fewer calories than you expend on a daily basis, and especially if you've "surprised" your body by making a significant change in diet, and ESPECIALLY if you're a male, you *are* going to lose weight. Period.

I can tell y'all some stuff about fructose, too. Did you know that it's the only sugar the human body never uses for energy? Did you know that it immediately lays it down as fat? Yep. All fructose from all sources, i.e. all fruit. In my world, that was a huuuuuuuge bummer.

I read that when we pasteurize milk we destroy the enzyme in it that helps break it down. thats why more people are lactose intolerant.

However, I think some people just naturally dont do well with milk. Personally, I dont see why we should even drink milk. I like it for dairy products but thats about it. I wont drink it.


when your body becomes ketone adapted, you are using fat as energy. I dont eat anymore than 40 carbs (carbohydrates) a day and have more energy than I ever have. Your body naturally uses fat as energy. no conversion process needed.

Soon I want to cut carbs completely.

Owsley stanley didn't eat a carb for over 47 years. There is small amounts of carbs in meat. very little. Your body converts some protein to carbohydrates.

you are literally burning fat as energy. when you eat carbs, it has to convert them to a fatty acid to even use it and most end up on your body. it uses insulin to break it down.. too much insulin causes tissue damage. the day your body stops producing insulin from the damage is when your poking needles in your stomach.

So yes your body absolutely will make energy from fat when you cut the carbs out. Which is what I believe our body's are naturally meant to do. you can live on nothing but steak and healthy too.

Also I am eating more calories than my BMI would suggest. I can eat almost 3000 calories a day in meat and i am still losing weight. I eat about 6 eggs a day with about 4 tablespoons of unsalted butter for breakfast and plenty of bacon. for lunch I have A half pound of hamburger (73/27) and for dinner i eat about a pound of steak. I also have been eating some fruit and small amounts of potato's if the cravings get bad. (i dream of ice cream sometimes lol) Sometimes I eat more or less but i never eat under 2500 calories and I weigh about 145 (5,7)

 

[SeaMaiden]

What you're doing is you're burning your own fat, but what tends to happen first is your body will break down muscle tissues (proteins) first because those are a simpler molecule. Going into ketosis is not a good way to lose weight at all. My assertion was with regard to caloric intake via fat calories.

All I can say about your daily diet is... oh my God. I personally am no longer able to tolerate well that fat level or total consumption of meat, my guts (and bloodwork/overall health) just won't stand for it.

Do you eat no vegetables, but just fruit and potatoes comprise the total plant matter intake at this point? I'm thinking your diet is so high in fat that the food's just sliding right out of you. (JK!)(only 1/2)

I personally feel it's a little misleading to use a single person as an example for what the majority should do in terms of diet. There are so many other variables at play that this is one of those instances where generalizations should apply. Genetics, and epigenetics, are but one of those vast myriad variables exist.