2012 Legalization Effort Starts

[dagnabit]

, Monsanto, Dupont, Phillip Morris, Bayer, Marlboro whatever from growing commercial pot here and flooding the market.

can we stop with this line of hyperbolic bullshit?

not a single multinational business entity listed would jeopardize the billions of dollars they make for the chump change to be offered if cali passes a recreational law.
the current anti business executive branch would cream in its collective pants at the chance to tear down ALL of the aforementioned corporations under r.i.c.o. statutes just to pander to their base.
honestly you dont believe dupont's board of directors would allow the company engage in manufacture of a schedule I narcotic?
you cant be that naive...

 

[hazy]

I have no shame at all. When I read sams posts I always wonder how much that old fart made in the 70's till now growing. What? Like enough to retire.

But even then I bet he would have preferred legalization.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

not a single multinational business entity listed would jeopardize the billions of dollars they make for the chump change to be offered if cali passes a recreational law.
the current anti business executive branch would cream in its collective pants at the chance to tear down ALL of the aforementioned corporations under r.i.c.o. statutes just to pander to their base.
honestly you dont believe dupont's board of directors would allow the company engage in manufacture of a schedule I narcotic?
you cant be that naive...

^this is correct.

also, addressing price drop; the price of really good weed wont drop too 200 a pound. only outdoor mass produced crap will. finely grown customized breeds and hash blends will be highly sought after. LOOK AT WINE, AND CIGARS!!!! I have drank old French wine that cost over 5g's a bottle. I have drank at least 100 NEWLY PRODUCED California wines that were over 400 hundred dollars a bottle, and they are not even very good imho. So don't be fooled into thinking you will be poor. When you can reach a larger customer base with out fear of persecution then you can make much much more money.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

can we stop with this line of hyperbolic bullshit?

not a single multinational business entity listed would jeopardize the billions of dollars they make for the chump change to be offered if cali passes a recreational law.
the current anti business executive branch would cream in its collective pants at the chance to tear down ALL of the aforementioned corporations under r.i.c.o. statutes just to pander to their base.
honestly you dont believe dupont's board of directors would allow the company engage in manufacture of a schedule I narcotic?
you cant be that naive...

true, they are waiting for federal decrim. But what about the 4 giant oakland warehouses? and the berkeley warehouses? Do we really need that? Obviously the the commercial factories were ready to rock.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^those are tiny compared to what real corporate industry would bring.

 

[dagnabit]

true, they are waiting for federal decrim. But what about the 4 giant oakland warehouses? and the berkeley warehouses? Do we really need that? Obviously the the commercial factories were ready to rock.

ok so those would lock up a little less than 1/10 of 1% of the demnd in oakland..
the quality will suffer for the massive quantity and boutique growers will still be in high demand..

any other unfounded fears you wanna try to regurgitate?

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

ok so those would lock up a little less than 1/10 of 1% of the demnd in oakland..
the quality will suffer for the massive quantity and boutique growers will still be in high demand..

any other unfounded fears you wanna try to regurgitate?

consarnit, i mean dagnabit. 1/10 of 1%... i would like that cited, and most likely will still refute that number (especially if it came from www.outofyourass.com). What's with the tone? I'm here to debate and discuss and mean you no disrespect. Did I offend you somewhere? If so I apologize. Are you angry about 19, because honestly, it was tragically flawed and I took a neutral stance on the forums due to conflicting interests. Speaking of conflicting interests... interesting there is no disclaimer rule on here hmmm?

post edit: i guess that link goes somewhere, lol, please DO NOT FOLLOW THAT LINK.

 

[dagnabit]

consarnit, i mean dagnabit. 1/10 of 1%... i would like that cited, and most likely will still refute that number (especially if it came from www.outofyourass.com). What's with the tone? I'm here to debate and discuss and mean you no disrespect. Did I offend you somewhere? If so I apologize. Are you angry about 19, because honestly, it was tragically flawed and I took a neutral stance on the forums due to conflicting interests.

post edit: i guess that link goes somewhere, lol, please DO NOT FOLLOW THAT LINK.

its just all the same bullshit i debunked a thousand times over...
prohibition is flawed...
the status quo is seriously flawed!!!
the attitude of keeping prohibition based on haterisim and pure fearmongering is "seriously flawed"

what do you think rick lee can produce?
100 lbs a day?
of
A+++?
really? you think that much top shelf?
lets run with that..
if he makes 100lbs a day of superior pot to every other grower on the planet...
how much market share is left?

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

its just all the same bullshit i debunked a thousand times over...
prohibition is flawed...
the status quo is seriously flawed!!!
the attitude of keeping prohibition based on haterisim and pure fearmongering is "seriously flawed"

what do you think rick lee can produce?
100 lbs a day?
of
A+++?
really? you think that much top shelf?
lets run with that..
if he makes 100lbs a day of superior pot to every other grower on the planet...
how much market share is left?

okay, take 100 lbs a day, times 8 for the other spots, can't say its just one. then LA does it and we can call it 12, then up north goes for it and its up to 16, 20, 24. You see where this goes.... I'll dig up the actual numbers, I remember reading the estimates.

Small farmers producing tobacco = great
Big tobacco = horrible
Mircobrew=great
Commercial beer = horrible

But look at the market for horrible beer, it's huge. Yay cali schwag?

http://www.baycitizen.org/marijuana/story/oakland-council-say-yes-industrial-pot/

“You want to be the Silicon Valley of cannabis?” asked entrepreneur Jeff Wilcox, who wants to build a 7.4-acre marijuana production complex producing 21,000 pounds of pot annually. “If Oakland wants to do this, you’ve got to start, because other people are going to.”

This is about the latest rewrite of the oakland plan:
http://www.baycitizen.org/marijuana/story/oakland-rewrites-pot-farm-plans/

Written up by City Council member Desley Brooks, the changes are meant to assuage legal concerns over the original plan, which would have allowed for four huge pot farms capable of producing mountains of marijuana.

Berkeley is also responding to the warnings by slowing its plans to permit six 30,000-square-foot growing operations in the warehouse district there, Berkleyside reports

.

One of the biggest proponents for the new law, Wilcox had planned to build a 7.4-acre complex that could produce over 21,000 pounds of marijuana a year. Under the new changes, he would have to get a dispensary permit to be able to grow. (thom: which is easy!)

“I’m committed to this,” he said. “I’m going to see this through.”

eff yeah he is going to make to make it happen. all of our $$$!!! so again: better numbers or cite or something. 21.000 lbs per year from one of the MANY factories is of concern to me. theoretically we, for now, until you cite something... we will say 20,000 lbs from 20 factories... that is 400,000 lbs/year flooding the shit out of the market. eff that. cali is already flooded. let CO do it first, that's what I say. Again, I'm talking about CA, not federal deregulation, which we all favor.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Shame you don't see the consumers as the little guys in the equation, all patients and recreational consumers should have the right to buy Cannabis at real non-inflated prices, why should they pay higher pries to support the lifestyle of inefficient farmers that can't make a profit selling a agricultural crop for a few hundred dollars a kilo, one that costs considerably less to produce if open to real competition? You seem to think that growers and sellers are owed something? I believe in real open capitalist competition, let the best and cheapest be the winner. I do believe supporting high Cannabis prices by keeping Cannabis illegal is not good for Cannabis or the end consumers, only the growers and sellers. Without the consumers there would be no commercial growers, or sellers.
-SamS

Every small farmer I know is against legalization. I think the reason this is true is because cannabis is illegal, which is a bad thing in theory, but happens to be the biggest asset to small farmers in MMj states. It keeps Rich Lee, other big money canna-players, Monsanto, Dupont, Phillip Morris, Bayer, Marlboro whatever from growing commercial pot here and flooding the market.

I mean Sam... everyone of us medical cannabis producers is a small farmer. There are thousands of small farmers in the MMj scene here in CA. We dominate, because we can't be undercut by effing big ag big biz (no offense intended). This is the rare occasion when government repression works out for the little guy due to conflicting federal and state laws.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I also doubt much legal Cannabis will be grown indoors under lights, not when you can produce the same quality outdoors or in greenhouses in the right environments. How much of the worlds wine crop is grown indoors under lights to produce a higher quality? Any? Why not? If you think outdoor grown is not as good it is because the grower did a poor job or tried to grow in an environment unsuitable for that variety of Cannabis. I know I can grow the very best outdoors or in greenhouses, I have done it for years, and the product was preferred over indoors by consumers, the same clones by the way.
-SamS

 

[MadBuddhaAbuser]

^this is correct.

also, addressing price drop; the price of really good weed wont drop too 200 a pound. only outdoor mass produced crap will. finely grown customized breeds and hash blends will be highly sought after. LOOK AT WINE, AND CIGARS!!!! I have drank old French wine that cost over 5g's a bottle. I have drank at least 100 NEWLY PRODUCED California wines that were over 400 hundred dollars a bottle, and they are not even very good imho. So don't be fooled into thinking you will be poor. When you can reach a larger customer base with out fear of persecution then you can make much much more money.

Shame you don't see the consumers as the little guys in the equation, all patients and recreational consumers should have the right to buy Cannabis at real non-inflated prices, why should they pay higher pries to support the lifestyle of inefficient farmers that can't make a profit selling a agricultural crop for a few hundred dollars a kilo, one that costs considerably less to produce if open to real competition? You seem to think that growers and sellers are owed something? I believe in real open capitalist competition, let the best and cheapest be the winner. I do believe supporting high Cannabis prices by keeping Cannabis illegal is not good for Cannabis or the end consumers, only the growers and sellers. Without the consumers there would be no commercial growers, or sellers.
-SamS

Two Great points from two great members. I personally don't have the luxury to be in a hip med state with clones and such all over the place. Fortunately I do get to smoke all sorts of those strains, just cant go to a store for them. I find it revolting that people who were once persecuted under the same screwed up laws(growers and smokers) who happened to be in a half-legal state, decide they wont go for full legalization. To fucking protect their money. disgusting. you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Like Hash and Sam say, if you can grow the best shit, you will still be getting the best prices. and your market will open up exponentially, so you can get more people to be getting the best shit. It only really hurts if your game isnt up to par. With legalization, I wouldnt have to pay $60 an eigth for some $40 an eigth shit. And I would be able to just go up to one of you guys randomly to try and find exactly what I want. It wouldn't be such small circles.

 

[bentom187]

i wish to introduce a concept, of karma, i give my weed and seeds away to make others as fortunate as me.do you know what i get in return ? happy people surrounding me and people that would like to see me happy.. money is shit requesting it is BS and giving it away makes more people concious of charity to make others happy.
if you expect things in return your gonna be dissapointed, your charity will make the world better tho including "yourself" if your concerned that much.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

why should they pay higher pries to support the lifestyle of inefficient farmers that can't make a profit selling a agricultural crop for a few hundred dollars a kilo,

Sam, in all honesty. It costs $200 to 300 per pound (420 to 640ish per kilo) just to trim it!!!! Then we go to man hours and small farms. Can we talk real here? I would love to have an honest discussion without the exaggerations. Small farms, our current set up, do not operate at the numbers you quote.

Think about it. The medical cannabis industry is supporting tens of thousands of, well let's be honest, hippies and counter culture folks. The ladies trim, the dudes grow it. We all are happy. It's hard to mess with that.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Hard to argue with,
-SamS

i wish to introduce a concept, of karma, i give my weed and seeds away to make others as fortunate as me.do you know what i get in return ? happy people surrounding me and people that would like to see me happy.. money is shit requesting it is BS and giving it away makes more people concious of charity to make others happy.
if you expect things in return your gonna be dissapointed, your charity will make the world better tho including "yourself" if your concerned that much.

 

[kmk420kali]

I mass produce outdoor (Greenhouse) weed...and was told by the guys who were testing it...(for mold, bugs, THC content) that it was the best outdoor they had seen all Season--
Ya just gotta try at it--
Guess what...I was (am) a pro 19 guy!!
Viva Legalization!!
If you can't make $$ without not having to work...Sorry--

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Two Great points from two great members. I personally don't have the luxury to be in a hip med state with clones and such all over the place. Fortunately I do get to smoke all sorts of those strains, just cant go to a store for them. I find it revolting that people who were once persecuted under the same screwed up laws(growers and smokers) who happened to be in a half-legal state, decide they wont go for full legalization. To fucking protect their money. disgusting. you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Like Hash and Sam say, if you can grow the best shit, you will still be getting the best prices. and your market will open up exponentially, so you can get more people to be getting the best shit. It only really hurts if your game isnt up to par. With legalization, I wouldnt have to pay $60 an eigth for some $40 an eigth shit. And I would be able to just go up to one of you guys randomly to try and find exactly what I want. It wouldn't be such small circles.

I'm not against legalization for me, I'm rich (physically, mentally, and spiritually lol). I don't sell my medicine, y'all wish!
I only run 2400 watts and InI smoke all that MAN! Actually, I turn most of it to 'resin' and smoke THAT man! It's everyone else I speak for, because they are my friends and we sit around the trim table and argue this all day.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I was referring to un-manicured don't you think I know the real costs of producing, be it a pound or a ton? Lets get real, what about the consumers, the patients remember them? The real little guys that you seem to forget, don't they deserve the right to buy Cannabis at the cheapest rates? Or they should pay higher prices to support all the present growers and sellers, regardless of the fact Cannabis can be grown much cheaper and sold much cheaper if legalized fully? That is the real question.
-SamS

Sam, in all honesty. It costs $200 to 300 per pound (420 to 640ish per kilo) just to trim it!!!! Then we go to man hours and small farms. Can we talk real here? I would love to have an honest discussion without the exaggerations.

Think about it. The medical cannabis industry is supporting tens of thousands of, well let's be honest, hippies and counter culture folks. The ladies trim, the dudes grow it. We all are happy. It's hard to mess with that.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

I also doubt much legal Cannabis will be grown indoors under lights, not when you can produce the same quality outdoors or in greenhouses in the right environments. How much of the worlds wine crop is grown indoors under lights to produce a higher quality? Any? Why not? If you think outdoor grown is not as good it is because the grower did a poor job or tried to grow in an environment unsuitable for that variety of Cannabis. I know I can grow the very best outdoors or in greenhouses, I have done it for years, and the product was preferred over indoors by consumers, the same clones by the way.
-SamS

I agree that commercial cannabis will be (imo should be) dominated by outdoor... and if federal things change the world class terroir that we have here will be no doubt of significance. I <3 CA outdoor dry sift... that's what everyone I know smokes, it's not a secret in CA that outdoor dry sift is king. Greenhouse? sometimes, only in the winter rains... it was 72 and sunny this week. We consider the off season greenhouse crops to be inferior in resin. You know more than I about growing here outside so I won't go on.

In terms of resin production: Is no greenhouse ideal if the weather is ideal? Or do the advantages (misters, lights, fans, light depo) of greenhouse yield the best resin?

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

I was referring to un-manicured don't you think I know the real costs of producing, be it a pound or a ton?

pardon the obvious confusion. I figure on the commercial level it will be cheaper to trim (because they will hire illegal mexicans, "not that there is anything wrong with that").

Lets get real, what about the consumers, the patients remember them? The real little guys that you seem to forget, don't they deserve the right to buy Cannabis at the cheapest rates?

yes, they should. what about the farmers? the communities? the economy of the region? I don't want all these hippies back on the street begging me for a dollar. And what about the care and love? The love the we pass on to our products as small organic farmers. IMO diversity is at risk as well. I think our current legislation is EXTREMELY beneficial for small breeders... diversity is exploding here, the world class breeders are joining the MMj communities. High CBD (10%ish) varieties are abundant and being discovered often because of the current set up we have. This is good for patients.

Sam, don't jump on me for this, BUT why can't everyone grow their own, or get it from friends? Why do we have to let big biz in? They have most everything else. And yes, I worked with patients on the daily at the dispensary. I know that many are very sick and need cheap meds and "caretaker growers". The dispensary has a group of such patients who get free medicine. I donate to this supply.

Or they should pay higher prices to support all the present growers and sellers, regardless of the fact Cannabis can be grown much cheaper and sold much cheaper if legalized fully? That is the real question.
-SamS

I do not think the price of the highest grade organic soil grown indoor will change that much... uh let's get really real. 95+% of MMj gardens go to out of state markets already. 19 would have made it 99%. That's the big not-so secret. I don't take part in this. I am WAY too exposed. But I argue for my friends.

I can sum the feeling up like this: "I've got this thing and it's fucking golden... and I'm not giving it up for fucking nothing." blago

It's not federal degregulation growers are opposed to, when did we go there? it's CA legalization. Huge difference. note the thread title and general discussion revolving around CA.