Vegan Organics with Professor Matt Rize

[AladdinSane]

A whole portion of the horticulture industry is about secreting away and obfuscating horticultural science then bottling and branding it as proprietary solution

Bingo. And as long as people keep buying it, they will succeed in this scam.

 

[AladdinSane]

I get the vegan thing in the sense of keeping out bad ingredients

Anytime someone tosses out the term "vegan" I generally find something more productive to study, like the effects of jabbing toothpicks up my nose.

I grow organic for one reason, I find it easier and cheaper than other methods, totally discrete, and it's more lenient on my labor and attention.

I'm highly skeptical that worms eating lettuce, digesting it down to simple molecules, and pooping it out produces a "safer" or "less bad" product than eating cow poop and digesting it down just the same. Especially considering that cow poop is just vegetables that have been pre-chewed already. Maybe lion poop....

I think the whole trick with these sorts of snake oil salesmen is getting you to accept the (false) premise that vegan is safer. Once they get that hook in your lip, and you start conversing with them from that premise, you've been had.

 

[Yankee Grower]

[1] For those who trust Sam Skunkman is telling the truth...

Cannabinoid analysis is not as easy and straight forward as you may think. While oil analysis of 75-85% is not unheard of it is very difficult for a lab that does not do Cannabinoid analysis on a regular basis to get it right. First of all they need standards to calibrate the GC. And where do they buy the standards? Sigma-Aldrich is the most commonly used, but when I got THC from them they claimed it was 98% pure, I tested it and in fact it was 86% pure, so anyone that used the standard will have wrong results. The same with the standards from the NIDA or the UN, I analyzed both and they were both less then claimed purity. I made my own standards in the end and had them confirmed by the two top labs working with Cannabinoids in the world. At least my results were dependable.

So Sam tested the standard from Sigma-Aldrich against what to determine the Sigma Aldrich standard was only 86% pure?

He made his own standards? Well...maybe he should sell his standards to Sigma-Aldrich...lol. Yeah I've purchased standards from SA, worked with an organic chemist who used to make some standards (helped him in his lab for about 6 months and had his own GC Mass Spec and HPLC) and did other stuff like make drug pre-cursors, I test with labs regularly...blah blah. Sam the Chemist I guess.

I had the opportunity to talk to Philippe Lucas from VICS in British Columbia about 5 years back about THC testing and said the standards can be had pretty easily.

 

[spurr]

So Sam tested the standard from Sigma-Aldrich against what to determine the Sigma Aldrich standard was only 86% pure?

Bingo! That was my thought too. He claims he used HPLC to make his standards, which is doable, but he does make lots of claims he doesn't back up with proof, so, buyer (reader) beware I guess. It seems like a chicken before the egg conundrum.

He doesn't name the labs he used to test his homemade standards that are the "two top labs working with Cannabinoids in the world" and that makes alarm bells go off in my (sometimes) overly critical thinking mind. He not only claims he has made standards for the usual cannabinoids, but also for CBG, THCV, CBDV, CBGV, etc., etc. Yawn...

He made his own standards? Well...maybe he should sell his standards to Sigma-Aldrich...lol.

Yeah I've purchased standards from SA, worked with an organic chemist who used to make some standards (helped him in his lab for about 6 months and had his own GC Mass Spec and HPLC) and did other stuff like make drug pre-cursors, I test with labs regularly...blah blah. Sam the Chemist I guess.

What grates on me is his indignation when he's honestly and intellectually challenged about his unsubstantiated claims. He will cite his "over 100,000" tests of cannabis/cannabis extracts with his GC; he's a busy boy! He seems to always revert to using the fallacious 'argument from authority' when challenged. But don't ask for proof or you'll get in trouble! (I am writing from experience about getting in trouble when asking him for proof on a different topic than his claims about his mastery of quantitative cannabinoid testing, lol)

I had the opportunity to talk to Philippe Lucas from VICS in British Columbia about 5 years back about THC testing and said the standards can be had pretty easily.

In Canada? That's good to know, in the US it's not easy for cannabis specific labs. The only reason I wrote about Dr. Hornsby is his claims of something like > 35% THC in cannabis he tested...his numbers are really high (no pun intended) to the point of disbelief IMO.

Very cool you have done this type of work, you are lucky and a rare person, nice to hear of your experience. I am curious for your thoughts about the DEA-exempt standards from Cerillan I wrote about above, thanks.


Some Sam Skunkman quotes:

1. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=687346&postcount=71

I do not know genentech but they do not sound like they have done hundreds or even thousands of analysis for Cannabinoids, I have done over 100,000. Yes I own a state of the art GC an HP 6890 with 2 injection ports and an auto sample tray with about 100 samples. You need the 2 injection ports to seperate THC from the other Cannabinoids as well as seperating CBC from CBD. One column will not do both. And yes I own 2 HPLC's one is analytical one is a small production unit.

Don't count on me bringing standards to the USA, it is illegal and I will not even think of it. All Cannabinoids are illegal in the USA even the ones that do not get you high. Here in Holland only THC is controlled, but it is easy to get a license if you are doing legit work. The other Cannabinoids standards besides THC can also be ordered for about $2,000+ a gram each here in Europe.

The sample that was 3% butane could you taste the butane?
The way you make your own samples is to have a production HPLC and have the results confirmed by GCMS. Of course you will need a herbal source of the Cannabinoids to extract them from and that is not so easy, as most pot grown in the USA has little to none of the other Cannabinoids like CBD, CBC, CBG, THCV, CBDV, CBCV, etc. I have standards of them all.

-SamS

2. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=685450&postcount=68

Misturemike,
Cannabinoid analysis is not as easy and straight forward as you may think. While oil analysis of 75-85% is not unheard of it is very difficult for a lab that does not do Cannabinoid analysis on a regular basis to get it right. First of all they need standards to calibrate the GC. And where do they buy the standards? Sigma-Aldrich is the most commonly used, but when I got THC from them they claimed it was 98% pure, I tested it and in fact it was 86% pure, so anyone that used the standard will have wrong results. The same with the standards from the NIDA or the UN, I analyzed both and they were both less then claimed purity. I made my own standards in the end and had them confirmed by the two top labs working with Cannabinoids in the world. At least my results were dependable.

As for the butane, the levels I found were much less, all less then 1%, but I do not want any butane in anything I smoke. 3% is a hell of a lot of butane! I suspect that any oil made with solvents will have trace amounts of solvent unless the oil was professionally cleaned up in a real lab.

The THC % I was refering to were for dry sifted resin, the 40% oil I refered to was just as an example to show how crazy the Dutch law is that 40% THC oil is a serious crime while 70% THC hash is ok.

-SamS

3. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1448560&postcount=16

The first bold below is from Jack D Ripper, the second larger bold below is from Sam. I find it funny how he's a 'pot calling the kettle black'! I have yet to see his results, unless he means data from his *ahem* company...

Also below he states he himself didn't test the standards from SA, he sent them to be tested "by three different highly respected labs that have worked with Cannabis for decades, it came back as 86% pure THC." I guess he worked with 3 labs, not 2, like he claimed above. Foot in mouth much Sam? Just sayin...

Analysis of THC and the related Cannabinoids is not quite as easy as most folks think. If you have a GC/MS it is easier, but most labs have trouble finding pure standards of the Cannabinoids to calibrate their GC. Without pure standards all the results are bogus. When I first ordered Cannabinoid standards from Sigma they sent me a standard they said was 98% THC, I had it tested by three different highly respected labs that have worked with Cannabis for decades, it came back as 86% pure THC. That is problem number one. The next problem is lack of experience with the people doing the analysis, every new lab that does Cannabinoid analysis screws it up at first. And I do mean every one!

So if a lab says 98% THC my first question is which lab? And how long have they been doing Cannabinoid analysis?
BTW, I have seen bubble hash that was 50-70% THC tested on my GC, as well as dry sift that was 70% THC tested on my GC. The dry sift was so pure it could not be smoked on a screen regardless of how fine the screen was, the resin just melted and ran right through the screen.

I have seen oil that was only 25% THC.

I have seen red oil and honey oil that was 90% THC, as well as 99% THC made synthetically. The 99% THC was as clear as water, no taste or smell, thick as epoxy.

My lab has done thousands of Cannabinoid analysis, and confirmed the results with other labs.

Jack D Ripper,
"Anyone claiming 60% purity bubble hash probably doesnt have their own GC/MS equipment."

60% THC bubble is no big thing...

As you would know if you had your own GC....

"but aparently, for some big $$$ NORAC Pharma will synthesize THC with 99.6% purity that can be shot intravenously.... ever tried to mainline your oil?"

Also, FYI, THC is not blood soluble, and can not be injected.

"so after doing honest research, Ive come to the conclusion that bubble hash and BHO are probably a lot less potent than you think... but Id like to be proven wrong, because 98% pure THC would be a VERY good thing."

I have tried pure THC and you are wrong it is not as subjectively as potent as 60% THC dry sift, believe me you do not want pure THC. You are guessing without any experience.

"I guess we come from different backgrounds, Im a scientist at heart and I dont blindly accept bogus explanations from authority. I do honest research, and draw my own conclusions."

If you are a scientist at heart, where is your research and results?

gordonliu,
"marinol is only legal because it is 99.9% pure, and that purity is only available through a synthetic route, when THC is so different from whatever else is in the pot, that 99.9% purity is easy to obtain."

Marinol is not 99.9% pure it is 95%+ and it is mixed with sesame oil that knocks it way down to just a couple % in the capsule.
And it is possible to make 99% THC from a natural source, it is just very hard and expensive. The first step is to use plant materials with only THC and none of the other 66 Cannabinoids, then the rest is a lot easier.
-SamS

 

[Matt Rize]

You guys are too funny.

You guys are too funny.

I'll try to cover the jokes one by one.

I don't work for Canna, or HN, or any other nute company.

I live in a place where I have zero outdoor garden space. I wild harvest (usually illegal here because of environmental protections, or on private property). I poach kelp and other sea plants. And I get tea supplies from my friend's ranch.

I don't work for or represent Steep Hill lab, but they are the major testing facility here. Really, you just wish you got paid to run herb through the GC/MS. They claim a 1.5% accuracy for general cannabinoid tests, and .5% with increased sample size (repeated tests).

This is my thread, not Kyle's. These ideas are mine. You wish he would come on here so you can insult him from behind the screen like a lil beeyatch. If you want to argue with him, take his class at OU or attend one of his free public speaking events.

Are we really arguing over the definition of guru? Really? Doesn't that one dude call himself god.... This is the 'professor' thing all over again...

I grow organic for many more reasons than it is easy and cheap. In fact, those not factors that I really consider right now in my system. I'm going for quality, and the response has been overwhelming since I made the switch to PLANT BASED ORGANIC NUTRITION.

"Many" cannabinoids is more accurate than "hundreds", obviously another semantics fan. The point being that there is much more than THC/CBD going on in your body/head.

And I'm sure I've missed something... but it was just some flaming.

I'll go back through, there is much I have skipped over. Time is in short supply this time of year.

 

[Matt Rize]

Great contribution, thread related.

Great contribution, thread related.

bio-canna is a good product. I would like them to start dropping there chemical lines, and focusing more on "safe" "clean" products.
I do admit it is strange to have a company making chemical nutes, then making a wonderful vegan product. life is full of oddities indeed.
another good thing to do is save there bottle ( or recycle it ) for other nutes, or I find the smaller bio boost bottles great for shaking up the vega and flores nutes, in the smaller container it is 10 times easier. I believe the bottom stuff is alot of N , so mix it good..
also check out there canna talk for good Q & A about there products. every article I see a question about bio-canna..

Thanks for the tips. I also save/reuse the small bottles.

 

[Matt Rize]

Thanks, another great thread contribution.

Thanks, another great thread contribution.

Really entertaining read! As the above fella said, you might want to focus more on why Veganics is good, and less on why using animal products is bad, but nevertheless, I enjoyed your insight.

I am doing a vegan grow myself, sans the fact that I'm using my own shit, and I eat cheese here and there... it's raw organic cheese though yaknowsayin? Other than the humanure, the soil mix I used is comprised of rock dusts and organic plant meals. I have started collecting a diversity of weeds and flowers, drying them, and turning them into unparalleled plant nutrition.
Buddah bless!

While I'm not big on the humanure, I applaud your efforts. We've been coming up with new names to use for ganja grown using human excrement: Jack #2, Chocolate Chunks, Soured Diesel, Blue dingleberry, Green Asscrack... I could go on

 

[Matt Rize]

Big up the coot

Big up the coot

Matt Rize
Where is this list from? NOT MY LIST, THE LINK WAS POSTED EARLIER.

RE: OMRI - their 'listing' is only meaningful in the grow store paradigm. Given some of the products that they've listed is beyond bizarre and proves that their business model of charging for a listing based on a company/individual's gross sales is enough for me to shun their organization as well as their listings. Look at the review process that they detail on their web site, i.e. where's the doctoral candidates? Professors? Industry professionals? Pretty lacking overall. YOU ARGUE MY POINT, AGREED.

RE: Perlite - pumice is preferred with horticulture growers in the Pacific Northwest. In paticular the organic crowd. Lots of reasons but the main one is that it's the same price, it doesn't float to the top and works very well in a thermal compost process. It comes in 3 sizes, small (1/8"), medium (1/4") and large (1/2") and runs about $4.60 per 1 c.f. around these parts. It's mined at 2 locations in Oregon - Redmond/Bend District and the Klamath Falls Basin down south on the California border. MANY THANKS, GREAT INFO, EFF PERLITE

Thanks for contributing.

 

[Tela]

what do the veganics crew use for pesticides and fungicides out here in the bay?

 

[Matt Rize]

Bio-dynamics: I host a CSA for a biodynamic ranch.

Bio-dynamics: I host a CSA for a biodynamic ranch.

The area of organic farming called 'bio-dynamics' is an interesting study. There are state, national and international organizations which promote this fairly small segment of organic/sustainable farming.

Vegan organics is also a fairly small segment of the organic/sustainable farming world. I DO NOT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING IN THESE LINKS...AND THEY DO NOT REPRESENT ME.

"Their presence on fresh produce is not uncommon. Salmonella, E. coli O157:H7, Campylobacter jejuni, Vibrio cholerae, parasites and viruses can contaminate produce through raw or improperly composted manure,..."

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09369.html

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Histoplasmosis:
"The fungus can be found naturally in soil but is more abundant in areas that are rich in bird and bat guano (Aufderheide 199 such as around farms, chicken coops, and in caves."

"Warm blooded flying mammals such as bats, however, can carry the disease (although further research documenting the manifestation of symptoms in bats could not be found) and excrete the organism in GUANO"

"Birds can spread the fungus directly by carrying it on their wings, feet and beak, and provide fertilizer for the growth of the fungus through their excrement. Because of this nutrient rich fertilizer, areas with strong bird populations are more likely to harbor actively growing H. capsulatum. Bats are unique carriers of histoplasmosis because they can carry it in their mammalian systems and excrete it in their guano. Bat guano is an ideal medium for the growth of histoplasmosis spores,..."

http://www.squidoo.com/Histo

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"What is the biggest negative consequence of collecting guano?

Loss of biodiversity. In bat caves in particular a large variety of invertebrates and fungi live on the guano and it is reduced in population as a result of collection. Bats also do not like to be disturbed and it does reduce their population as the collectors interfere with their breeding cycle. It is almost impossible to collect guano commercially without disturbing the host species."

http://www.funtrivia.com/en/subtopic...no-309829.html

I love bat guano, prefer it way over bird or fish. Just pointing out that animal products can have positive and negative sides.

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"Removal of Jamaican Bat Guano damages Jamaican Caves; Jamaican Bat Guano should never be used for commercial purposes; Jamaican Bat Guano is sold as an organic fertilizer by unscrupulous retailers, that will be used in growing Ganja; Jamaican Bat Guano should never be bought or sold; Jamaican Bat Guano contains paleoclimatic records; Jamaican Bat Guano contains fossils; removing Jamaican Bat Guano will result in the elimination of the Jamaican bats that produced the deposits; Jamaican Bat Guano can carry histoplasmosis and can be hazardous to your health. To summarize, if you buy Jamaican Bat Guano you are helping to destroy the bat caves of Jamaica."
http://www.jamaicancaves.org/jamaican_bat_guano.htm

and

"Bat guano, often used as an organic fertilizer in the production of marijuana, is usually mined in caves, and is associated with a corresponding loss of troglobytic biota and diminishing of biodiversity. Guano deposits support a great variety of cave-adapted invertebrate species, which rely on bat feces as their sole nutrient input. In addition to the biological component, deep guano deposits contain local paleoclimatic records in strata that have built up over thousand of years, which are unrecoverable once disturbed.

The greatest damage caused by mining to caves with extant guano deposits is to the bat colonies themselves...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano

Or this one here: which explains how important your sourcing be for guanos. can be good, can be bad.

http://planet.earthclinic.com/garden...ertilizer.html

NEXT: BAT GUANO

07/21/2010: ECP Staff writes: "To be certain that your bat guano is organic, safe, and is collected through bat-friendly harvesting practices (particularly important now, as white-nose syndrome sweeps across US bat populations), you can look for a few indicators. Unfortunately, the word "organic" in this case is very unreliable. However, the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) certifies organic fertilizers, including guano. Likewise, any company that sustainably harvest bat guano fertilizer is likely to make a BIG DEAL ABOUT IT ON THE PACKAGING <."

07/20/2010: ECP writes: "Guano was more or less the first large-scale commercial fertilizer, before the chemical fertilizers hit the market. It was also something of an environmental hazard itself, as whole islands were stripped mined for guano and ecologically insensitive guano collection methods still harass bats to death in their own caves. However, properly sourced bat guano is aged for antiseptic safety and collected sustainably from bat caves when bats are away from the cave on seasonal migration. A variety of bat guano fertilizers exist with different NPK ratios, but guano is generally high in nitrogen and often high in phosphorus as well. "

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"Seabirds in the Arctic act as “funnels,” concentrating toxic chemical compounds collected from elsewhere and carried in their excretions into “hot spots” in terrestrial Arctic ecosystems, on land and in freshwater lakes"

http://www.geotimes.org/sept05/NN_birdpoop.html

 

[Matt Rize]

I'm not the only one thinking about trophic levels and bioaccumulation of metals. This is not a study as to whether marine birds are biovectors (they are), this is a look at potency related to diet. http://www.pnas.org/content/107/23/10543.abstract

"We investigated whether seabirds that feed at different trophic levels vary in their potency as biovectors of metals, which can bioaccumulate through the marine foodweb....We show that the seabirds carry species-specific mixtures of metals that are ultimately shunted to their nesting sites. For example, sediments from the tern-affected pond recorded the highest levels of δ15N and the greatest concentrations of metals that are known to bioaccumulate, including Hg and Cd. In contrast, the core from the eider-affected site registered lower δ15N values, but higher concentrations of Pb, Al, and Mn."

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"The birds, it seems, are eating carrion, squid, and other marine animals from POP-contaminated seas. The flyers then return to their coastal home and deposit their contaminated prey—in the form of excrement—in local ponds, which see their POP levels skyrocket as a result."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...14_arctic.html

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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/30/wo...11200&emc=eta1

On exploitation of natural resources:

“We are recovering some of the last guano remaining in Peru,”

"There might be 10 years of supplies left, or perhaps 20, and then it will be completely exhausted,” said Mr. Ropón, referring to fears that the seabird population could be poised to fall sharply in the years ahead. It is a minor miracle that any guano at all is available here today,..."

In reference to harvesting methods and safety in Peru:

"Many go barefoot, their feet and lower legs coated with guano by the time their shifts end in the early afternoon. Some wear handkerchiefs over their mouths and nostrils to avoid breathing in guano dust, which, fortunately, is almost odorless aside from a faint smell of ammonia."

About the possibility of running out of peruvian seabird poop:

"Uriel de la Torre, a biologist who specializes in conserving the guanay cormorant and other seabirds, said that unless some measure emerged to prevent overfishing, both the anchovetas and the seabirds here could die off by 2030"

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If you don't believe me, here is another thread from Dr. VonDank about vegan organics.

VEGANICS with DR. VonDank: is he really a doctor? who the eff cares...
http://www.rollitup.org/organics/248826-veganics-dr-vondank.html

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From: http://www.goveganic.net/spip.php?article53

"Animal-based fertilizers, like manure and blood meal, often come from animals that were not raised organically. They may have been exposed to chemicals, GMO feed, hormones, and antibiotics. Veganic growers can maintain fertility on their own holding using completely organic plant-based techniques, ensuring that the entire cycle of agriculture is 100% organic.

There are growing concerns about chemicals used in food production and contaminants found in the food supply. Choosing to grow food organically is a step in the right direction, because substances like pesticides, herbicides, and GMO’s are not intentionally added to the farmland. Unfortunately, these substances can still make their way to organic fields. While organic farmers are permitted to use animal-based fertilizers like manure, blood meal, and bone meal, these fertilizers may be contaminated with substances that are CONTRARY to the aims of organic agriculture.

For example, when farm animals are fed pesticide-tainted food, certain pesticides BIOACCUMULATE in the bodies of the animals, resulting in animal-based fertilizers that still contain pesticides. Bone meal has been implicated in the spread of mad cow disease, causing some people to become wary of bone meal used in vegetable agriculture. Antibiotics that are given to farm animals can be found in the animals’ manure, and certain antibiotics are actually absorbed by vegetables, causing concern about antibiotic resistance (see the University of Minnesota studies, published 2005 and 2007).

For farmers and gardeners who would like to grow cleanly-sourced organic food, the fertility in veganic agriculture is maintained using plant-based techniques, with minimal use of off-farm inputs. This can be cheaper and less energy intensive than importing organic animal products from neighbouring farms, and by producing your own sources of fertility, you can ensure that the production cycle remains COMPLETELY organic."

Also from same site, but from the consumer's perspective.

"Eating 100% organic food
Organic food is frequently grown using animal waste, but these animals have often been exposed to pesticides, chemicals, antibiotics, and hormones (except for a small number of farmers who source their manure from organically-raised animals or raise animals on their own farm). In veganic agriculture, because the food is grown using organic plant-based techniques, it’s possible for the farmers to keep the cycle of agriculture 100% organic.

There are growing concerns about chemicals used in food production and contaminants found in the food supply. Choosing organic food is a step in the right direction, because the farmer is not intentionally adding substances like pesticides, herbicides, and GMO’s to the farmland. Unfortunately, however, these substances can still make their way to organic fields.

Organic farmers are permitted to use animal-based fertilizers like manure, blood meal, and bone meal, but these are not necessarily sourced from organically-raised animals. Many organic farms, especially large-scale operations, amend their fields with animal by-products from conventional factory farms and slaughterhouses.

The by-products of these animals can be contaminated with substances that are contrary to the aims of organic agriculture. For example, when farm animals are fed pesticide-tainted food, certain pesticides bioaccumulate in the bodies of the animals, resulting in animal-based fertilizers that still contain pesticides. Bone meal has been implicated in the spread of mad cow disease, causing some people to become wary of bone meal used in vegetable agriculture. Antibiotics that are given to farm animals can be found in the animals’ manure, and certain antibiotics are actually absorbed by vegetables, causing concern about antibiotic resistance (see the University of Minnesota studies, published 2005 and 2007).

For consumers who would like to eat cleanly-sourced food, talk to local organic farmers about how they fertilize their fields, or phone the companies whose exports you purchase. Some small farmers do make the effort to get animal products from organically-raised animals, but you’ll find that many farms are fertilizing their fields from contaminated sources.

In veganic agriculture, farmers use plant-based techniques, and are encouraged to produce as much fertility as possible on their own land, which minimizes the chance of contamination. We recommend that concerned consumers get involved and actively engage with local farmers, to promote these techniques for creating a clean food supply."

 

[Matt Rize]

Or this page is interesting: http://www.friendsofanimals.org/acti.../veganics.html

"There’s nothing new about embracing biodiversity and using decomposing plant matter to grow plants. It’s the very basis of natural growth. The best example is the forest, whose fertility comes from the accumulation of plants on the surface, without anyone working the soil and without artificial additions of animal manure"

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All sorts of vegan-organic organization exist worldwide. It is also known as stock free organic farming, and "green" organics.

http://www.veganorganic.net/links.htm

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Here goes more on vegan organic gardening. Something about horse manure, which I was asked about earlier.

http://www.flyingbeet.com/veganic.html

"In 2007 The University of Minnesota completed an empirical study of our "crazy" Veganic claims (see below), and guess what? We were proven RIGHT!

Organic crops grown using factory farmed manures and offal are now PROVEN to take up the toxic products used in those factory farms! People buying USDA Certified Organic products and thinking they are avoiding the chemicals that poured onto factory farms (and into confinement factory-raised animals) are being horribly fooled....And if USDA Organic isn't that choice, then what is?

"Research by the University of Washington last year gives more credibility to our nutty purist ideals. Broad-Leaf weed herbicide was applied during reconditioning of a hay pasture. The hay grew over months, and the roots soaked up the herbicide (just like non-organic carrots were found last year to soak up other broad-spectrum herbicides even two years after application). Months of rain and baking sun didn't break the herbicide down... the hay was harvested, sat in a barn, was slowly fed to horses... where the herbicide BIO-ACCUMULATED in their bodies and was then passed in their manure."

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http://www.vegforlife.org/health_veganic_farming.html

"Although organic farmers avoid pesticides, synthetic fertilizers and genetically modified crops, many still use animal manures and slaughterhouse byproducts like bone, blood and fish meal. Animal agriculture byproducts can be contaminated with toxic chemicals, antibiotics and disease-causing bacteria, spoiling the whole point of organic agriculture. However, a growing trend in organic farming, called “veganic farming,” is bringing about some big changes in the way food is grown. Combining organic farming methods with vegan philosophy, veganic farmers are cultivating a better way to grow safe, healthy and animal-friendly food."

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Another group for plant based nutrition: http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyl...gardening.aspx

"All life ultimately depends on plants, and the plants do not have to be wastefully passed through an animal in order to work. Those who say that animals are an essential part of agriculture have been conclusively proved wrong by the commercial growers who use animal free techniques and by government sponsored research into the subject. Animal based agriculture is in fact harming the world's environment."

 

[Matt Rize]

Bio-film

Bio-film

what do the veganics crew use for pesticides and fungicides out here in the bay?

We do a routine bio-film application for PM prevention.

I only treat for pests when I first get cuts, and I use all sorts of oils. I like to switch it up. Can't speak for the other guys.

So you have smoked some of the crew's veganics...

post edit: wow, 2,000+ views in three days...

 

[Matt Rize]

Medicating with Prof Rize

Medicating with Prof Rize

"HAHAHAHA" rize

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C8-tMEk6T4

No cough example requested by rollitup folks. Flowers and full-melt (45-160) Blackberry Kush. I normally use a bee-line wick, but just did the lighter for the video. You are invited to play along.

 

[Matt Rize]

Every fool thinks they know the one true path...

Every fool thinks they know the one true path...

Sorry if everyone upset you for trying to help, but this forum is dominated by true veganics and the way has already been paved. Thats why Jay is a mod on this side. He's taught many of us to use what natures given us instead of companies forcing upon us.

... or that they know how to grow the "best" herb ever. We could debate all day about what best means to us, as gardening choices are all a matter of perspective.

But we all walk our own unique paths in life. This is the way.

Thanks for contributing.

 

[Matt Rize]

Really dude?

Really dude?

What's your website so I know where to buy all this great stuff? Do you offer any discounts?

I have nothing to sell. Paranoia just perpetuates negative stereotypes sir.

 

[spurr]

I'll try to cover the jokes one by one.

I don't work for or represent Steep Hill lab, but they are the major testing facility here. Really, you just wish you got paid to run herb through the GC/MS. They claim a 1.5% accuracy for general cannabinoid tests, and .5% with increased sample size (repeated tests).

Please respond to my question about how you sourced standards for your extensive use of GC at your 'university'. This goes to your credibility which effects the credibility other claims you make...

This is my thread, not Kyle's. These ideas are mine. You wish he would come on here so you can insult him from behind the screen like a lil beeyatch. If you want to argue with him, take his class at OU or attend one of his free public speaking events.

Then why represent it as you and Kyle in your first post? Let me quote you: "Welcome fellow (and future) vegan organic indoor gardeners. I'll begin by saying I've been working on a revolutionary growing system with ganja guru Kyle Kushman. He calls it Kushman's Indoor Veganics and it includes all aspects of gardening."

Which is it? Your system or Kyle's system as you wrote above? Or are you one in the same? Are you Kyle? I am not insulting you by challenging the claims you make, please understand the difference. Insult is to call you a jerk, that is not what I have done.

Ps. No thanks, I will pass on Kyle's and your class, but if both of you want to pay me I am sure I can teach you both lots of things and correct lots of misunderstandings both of you apparently have. I am sure lots of other folks here could do the same for both you and Kyle.

Are we really arguing over the definition of guru? Really? Doesn't that one dude call himself god.... This is the 'professor' thing all over again...

No one is arguing the definition of "guru", I am stating Kyle is not a guru. This again goes to your credibility...

"Many" cannabinoids is more accurate than "hundreds", obviously another semantics fan. The point being that there is much more than THC/CBD going on in your body/head.

How about 66 cannabinoids? Sound more accurate to you? This again goes to your credibility here, you make many wrong claims, do not offer citations and then get upset when you are challenged intellectually on an academic level; that is not the actions of a professor! You wrote one of your main actions was testing Blueberry with GC, yet you still have not told me/us how you sourced standards. It's all about credibility, and IMO you have zero right now.

And I'm sure I've missed something... but it was just some flaming.

It is not flaming, no one here has flamed you in the last 10 or so pages. Challenging you on claims you made is NOT flaming.

 

[spurr]

We do a routine bio-film application for PM prevention.

I only treat for pests when I first get cuts, and I use all sorts of oils. I like to switch it up. Can't speak for the other guys.

So you have smoked some of the crew's veganics...

post edit: wow, 2,000+ views in three days...

Biofilm!?! Do you even know what biofilm is? It's not a product. IIRC, biofilm was first discovered when scientists wondered how bacteria can hold onto rocks in fast moving water in a stream. Biofilm is created by microbe colonies...

 

[Matt Rize]

Another reply because I care...

Another reply because I care...

as for worm castings vs bat guano - worms will eat pretty much anything - including meat
NOT IF YOU FEED DON'T FEED THEM MEAT...REALLY?

bats will eat a specific known diet - usually fruit or insects, and bat guano is actually also eaten by beetles and is therefore insect castings.
ISSUES WITH BATS ARE ALSO ENVIRONMENTAL. Also see post 74.

so really bat guano is more potentially much more reliably 'vegan' than EWC. POINTLESS, EVERYONE CAN MAKE EWC, FEW CAN MAKE GUANO... SOURCING
VG

Nice try, thanks for contributing.

 

[VerdantGreen]

thanks matt, but you already responded to that post and i responded to your response - my guano source is both ethical and eco friendly.
could i also point out that responding within a quote from another member is confusing as to who has written what.

VG