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Vegan Organics with Professor Matt Rize

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Matt Rize

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Welcome fellow (and future) vegan organic indoor gardeners. I'll begin by saying I've been working on a revolutionary growing system with ganja guru Kyle Kushman. He calls it Kushman's Indoor Veganics and it includes all aspects of gardening.

And secondly, I am not a vegan, nor do I promote a vegan diet for humans. I get my meat from the farmer's market, and I support local ranches, eff fast food. Sorry, I digress.

It's all about the medicine. We are literally making medicine for sick people, often people with severely compromised immune systems. So getting rid of the animal sources removes the risk of any animal pathogens being transmitted to the immunocompromised patient. Remember my beautiful canna-friends, sick people often consume the Cannabis raw as juice.

Vegan organics (aka plant based organics) is also about reproducing nature. In the wild plants feed off of the soil. Soil nutrition is mostly broken down plants, with a little rock and animal origin. So are you starting to see the idea? Broken down plants=good, rocks=okay in small amounts, animal origin=okay in small amounts, chemical=no way!
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With the theory out there, let's go to practice. Vegan is showing up on all sorts of labels these days, but the word itself means little. Most chemy nutes are technically vegan. What I am talking about when I say veganics, or vegan organics, is plant-based organic nutrition

That brings us to my personal favorite nute company in the world, BioCanna. Who else has the balls to directly label the product this way? I've never tested their chemy lines but have read great reviews. The BioCanna line is the backbone of veganics, and on a level all its own in the nute world. Don't you just love the smell of Vega and Flores? Yum, like molasses and soy sauce. If you are on a budget the BioBoost can be foliar fed, but both is better . One thing to note is that advanced gardeners will have to feed heavy and possibly supplement N in veg and P/K in flower for peak results. The BioCanna website has lots of great info about the special process of plant fermentation and extraction used to make this unique line of nutes. They are sourcing from all over the world to make the best vegan organic plant-extract nutes.

Then there is the media situation. I want to talk about Bio Terra Plus, BUT it's not available in the US (cali for sure) right now. ARGH! The Bio terra plus is on a level all its own right now in the media world. The price reflects that too...but it is amazing. I've read that someone said to break it up, NO WAY, you are paying for the chunks. Research soil aggregate structure. The diversity in the soil leads to microclimates. Microclimates lead to diverse microbe and beneficial fungi populations. Diverse populations lead to pH buffering, nitrogen fixation, root symbiosis, and overall pathogen resistance.

Now I have to address perlite. Yes, the terra plus holds a lot of water. I can see how feeding more often in a lighter mix might make it easier to push nutes. I made the decision to go all natural, and perlite is not part of that. My grandmother taught me how to water soil that holds too much water. We'll get to water later.

To explain more: perlite is dead space in the microbial world. For me, it is not about feeding more, or more often. It is about maintaining a healthy root zone, and feeding both the roots and the microbes. The microbes in turn eat and their "poo" feeds the plants while I'm waiting to water again. By the time full roots have developed I'm watering my medium sized plants (in 4 gallon pots filled with terra plus straight outta the bag) about every-other day, just right IMHO.
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Some tips i've learned along the way (3 vegan runs complete):
- feed heavy, supplementation will be needed for advanced gardeners
- brew microbe teas, low NPK so no worries
- feed microbes, in the brewer and in the soil.
- IMHO and according to the microscope, BioBoost cuts flower time 3 to 10 days depending of course.
- feed all mixed nutes asap and flush your res/hoses/wand or whatever you top feed with
- oh yeah, top feed the bio canna line. too thick to drip or flood/drain.
- don't flush until the last week or two. no residues from veganics.
- no worries with a vegan garden. don't have to wash hands after, non-toxic nutes!
- also, if in the budget, the BioBoost can be used in small amounts at any time after flipping.
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The beauty of paradoxes. Smoke is generally an irritant. But come take a huge chalice rip of some veganics with me and you will experience what I can only begin to describe. I call it the "delayed one cough or no cough" reaction, more of a gasp than cough. The left over veganic resin is different from organics as well, visibly more oily.

A) smoke can be cooled to "not hot" temps really easily these days; diffusion stems, cooling coils, ect. Coughing is then a response to oxygen deprivation or particulate matter. i forget that people don't all filter their smoke. d'oh.
B) pure hash is more of an oil than plant matter. the particulates are so tiny from vaporized oils that coughing is from heat. try a completely cooled hash rip of veganics and you will see why I started this thread.
 

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Matt Rize

Member
Veganics and Bird Poop

Veganics and Bird Poop

Now I'll paint a picture...

Imagine yourself in Jamaica. Yeah mon, right down by da beach bwoi! You are chilling have a great time, rum punch in hand, in the shade, by the waves. Alright then, paradise. Yes-I. Now you see a seagull fly by and think 'hope it don't sh*t on me'. Back to paradise.

Then you go home and feed that bird shit to your plants. That bird went straight to the closest dump to feed. It ate human excrement, medical waste, dead people, who knows what! Then someone collected its poo, called it Jamaican seabird guano, and sells it in the stores. No thanks man, that sh*t ain't ital.
 

Matt Rize

Member
Veganics and getting rid of perlite

Veganics and getting rid of perlite

I'm not a big fan of perlite for a few reasons, but I always seems to use a little.
First is that it is not natural.
Second is the irritant factor. The dust from that stuff is wicked to mucus membranes, and sick old people's skin can't deal with it. No debate there.
Third: you know you've been trimming and seen a piece of perlite on a bud once and a while. i don't like that. there could be perlite inside the flowers.
Fourth is the idea that perlite is a neutral media in terms of beneficials. Microbes don't thrive on perlite surfaces.
 

Matt Rize

Member
Veganics and Earth Worm Castings

Veganics and Earth Worm Castings

My take on earth worm castings simplified: good if the worms were not fed sh*t

Earth worms inhabit the soil. The microbe populations in their guts breakdown soil and in turn feed the worms. This is kinda like the microbes in our soil feeding our plants. Very cool. Phylum Annelida rules!

The microbes in mammalian digestive tracts, especially omnivores like birds, are WAY different that the microbes in castings. Earth worm gut colonies are similar to normal soil colonies.

Are worm casting less of a "poo" than mammal leavings, I argue "yes". The same way omnivore poo is more "poopy" than herbivore poo.

Worm casting are in fact a broken down version of top soil. Soil can harbor the same pathogens as poos, but not nearly in the same concentrations. In addition, the biomagnification that can occur with mammalian diets does not apply to castings, which is basically just dirt that has been blindly passed through a simple gut.

For these reasons I say castings are "on" (IMO). If you trust the source, and what they have fed the worms used to produce the castings, then go for it. Earth worm casting can be an amazing natural product that work synergistically with PLANT BASED NUTRITION!
 

Matt Rize

Member
Veganics and Molasses

Veganics and Molasses

So a little babble about feeding your microbes molasses (or whatever you use), which I know I'm going to get called out for. Just part of what I'm into, not technically a vegan thing.

The relationship between plants and microbes are symbiotic. The microbes do all sorts of things in the rhizosphere, we don't have to cover all that. Simplified: the microbes/fungi feed the roots and, in a way, expand the root surface area exponentially. The plants in turn feed the fungi/mirobes with photosynthetic products, that is the other side to this symbiotic relationship.

Normally, in nature, that is beautiful: ying-yang, give-take, natural cycle of things. But in our indoor container environments, I will argue (technical for IMO), that feeding the microbes directly allows the plant to keep more of its photosynthetic products for itself. This allows the plant to benefit from the symbiotic relationship without forcing it to give back it's fair share.
 

jaykush

dirty black hands
ICMag Donor
Veteran
i wouldn't use even a little animal origin material and call it vegan, that's kinda silly. sounds like veganics needs plant extracts and things like that.

ive been growing completely "veganic" for years now. best buds for the cheapest price and the least impact(except for building fertile soil asap)
 

habeeb

follow your heart
ICMag Donor
Veteran
bio-canna is a good product. I would like them to start dropping there chemical lines, and focusing more on "safe" "clean" products.

I do admit it is strange to have a company making chemical nutes, then making a wonderful vegan product. life is full of oddities indeed.


another good thing to do is save there bottle ( or recycle it ) for other nutes, or I find the smaller bio boost bottles great for shaking up the vega and flores nutes, in the smaller container it is 10 times easier. I believe the bottom stuff is alot of N , so mix it good..

also check out there canna talk for good Q & A about there products. every article I see a question about bio-canna..
 

guest2012y

Living with the soil
Veteran
damn i feel like i just read a commercial.
I was vibin' out on that as I was reading it too schwagg. Sorry matt,just brutally honest types around here. I use fish bone meal,crab shell meal,and a tiny bit of fish hydrolysate. That would officially exclude me from being a vegan organic grower. However,I would still say my product is top notch "food grade" organic and the folks that use my medicine for treatment are appreciative that I use the products I do considering they are environmentally and animal conscious types. The few animal parts I use are by-products from the ocean rather than a chemi-corn fed antibiotic/pesticide/hormone laced animal slaughtering facility where that blood and bone are rendered for use by "organic" fertilizer companies.
Vegan's cool.....not knockin' it one bit.
 

Matt Rize

Member
i wouldn't use even a little animal origin material and call it vegan, that's kinda silly. sounds like veganics needs plant extracts and things like that.

ive been growing completely "veganic" for years now. best buds for the cheapest price and the least impact(except for building fertile soil asap)

Yeah, vegan is such a strict term when applied to food. And I know some who call themselves vegan but eat honey (it gets complicated). I prefer to use plant based organics. And Europe calls it stock-free organics. Thanks to everyone for contributing.

http://www.stockfreeorganic.net/images/standards.pdf
 

CannaExists

Paint Your DreamStrain
Veteran
Really entertaining read! As the above fella said, you might want to focus more on why Veganics is good, and less on why using animal products is bad, but nevertheless, I enjoyed your insight.

I am doing a vegan grow myself, sans the fact that I'm using my own shit, and I eat cheese here and there... it's raw organic cheese though yaknowsayin? Other than the humanure, the soil mix I used is comprised of rock dusts and organic plant meals. I have started collecting a diversity of weeds and flowers, drying them, and turning them into unparalleled plant nutrition. Here's my grow by the way:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=190679

Buddah bless!
 

MrFista

Active member
Veteran
Yep, I read a commercial.

Professor Matt? Professor of?

Professor... Please direct me to papers in which mammalian pathogens are hosted by plants in particular cannabis.

Worms diets are the microbes that break everything else down. They eat loads of nasty shit and make it safe/r. Their gut is simple? Digestive system with mouth, oesophagus, crop, gizzard, intestine with typhlosole infolding, anus... all portions of this system excluding mouth and anus surrounded by dorsal and ventral blood vessels and wrapped in connecting vessels in each segment along the body length. Looks pretty well set up to me. No cloacum as they don't need bacteria etc to help digest, they let microbes do the work externally, and then digest them. A worms diet is half digested rotting putrescent shit.

If I removed the 1/4 tsp of guano I put in my flowering tea do I get to be veganorganic.

Vegan - a vegetarian who is so weak from malnutrition they can't say the whole word.

That was a pretty good joke. Offended? :laughing:
 

Matt Rize

Member
Humanure...

Humanure...

I am doing a vegan grow myself, sans the fact that I'm using my own shit, and I eat cheese here and there... it's raw organic cheese though yaknowsayin?

You just blew my mind. I had no idea that people use humanure on Cannabis. Can I ask... outdoor?

Thanks for contributing. Bless up!
 

Matt Rize

Member
Stock Free Standards Part 5

Stock Free Standards Part 5

"5. Supplementary nutrients

5.1 Permitted soluble fertilisers and alginates for supplementary purposes only
(a) Supplementary tonics created on the holding e.g. Comfrey tonics, nettle tonics and
herb tonics e.g. camomile and tansy
(b) Compost teas created on the holding
(c) Dried seaweed meal
(d) Liquid seaweed and other commercially available foliar feeds suitable for organic
systems that are free from animal inputs
(e) Commercially available compound fertilisers and liquid feeds suitable for organic
systems that are free from animal inputs

5.2 Permitted fertilisers for supplementary purposes only
(a) Phosphate sources (Cadmium content less than or equal to 90mg/kg of P205);
• Natural rock phosphate (e.g. Tunisian rock phosphate);
• Calcined aluminium phosphate rock (e.g. Redzlaag) where soil pH > 7.5.
(b) Potassium (potash) sources:
• Wood-ash (from wood not chemically treated after felling) from the registered
holding
(c) Calcium-magnesium sources:
• Dolomitic limestone
• Gypsum - calcium sulphate
• Ground chalk & limestone
• Epsom salts (for acute magnesium deficiency)
• Magnesium rock (including Kierite)
(d) Clays (e.g. perlite and vermiculite).

5.3 Mineral must only be used in cases of acute shortage because the products are
quarried from non-renewable resources and are transported over long distances.

5.4 Restricted fertilisers
(a) Sulphate of potash - only where exchangeable K levels are below index 2 (100mg/litre)
and clay content is less than 20%, following soil analysis
(b) Sulphur
(c) Calcium chloride - for bitter pit in apples
(d) Industrial lime from sugar production
(e) Natural rock potash - providing it has a relatively low immediate solubility in water and
low chlorine content
(f) Trace elements
• Stone meal (ground basalt)
• Boron, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, cobalt, selenium, zinc.

5.5 Prohibited fertilisers
(a) Any animal by-product of livestock or fish origin
(b) All synthetic fertilisers including: nitrochalk, Chilliean nitrate, urea, muriate of potash,
potassium chloride, superphosphates, kanite and fibrophos
(c) Slaked lime, quicklime
(d) Lithothamnium coralloides and phymatolithon calcareum forms of calcified seaweed."

This is from the link a few posts back.
 

Matt Rize

Member
Reviews

Reviews

all I know is that the veganics ultrasour is deeeeelish.

Here goes a discussion that I had no part in about the smoking quality of some vegan organic flowers. To quote the person: "...i mean i actually smoked some of the stuff grown with it and its substantially smoother and a cleaner high."

The guy who tried it liked it. I can't make this non-sh*t up.

https://tokecity.com/forums/archive/index.php4/t-37978.html

And another review of some vegan organic herb: "Their herb was hands down the smoothest, best tasting herb I've ever had..."

"http://www.*********.com/forums/f6/kyle-kushman-veganic-project-23109"

post edit: it won't let me link, d'oh. new here.
 
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