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schwagg
is there a smiley for blowing smoke up our rears?
Vegan Organics with Professor Matt Rize
- Thread starter Matt Rize
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U
unthing
I quess not. Another thing that came to my mind is cannibal cannabis, as in terms extracting good stuff and composting the rest to fertilizer.
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Yankee Grower
Yuch...and I thought Milorganite was bad stuff...lol. I'd say very abnormal to be kind.
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Yankee Grower
Heavy metal tests are cheap but pesticide screens can be very expensive. One test I have run each year costs me $600+. What are they looking for?
Seriously,If anyone doesn't think it's lame then you haven't trimmed enough herb. I'm the fastest and cleanest trimmer I've ever met,and I started fuggin' hating it years ago...nowadays I would much rather pay the local family kids who need a job.
But yeah,anyway..has anybody checked into the products mentioned to see how organic or "vegan" they actually are?
New customers/victims and more corners to turn?
Seems all I can find are advertisements and msds on the bioblaster....no mention of ingredients anywhere. I assume it's just what we already use in a much more expensive form.
Anybody else find anything about what it is exactly?
Anybody else find anything about what it is exactly?
C
CT Guy
Matt,
MM's post is on page 7, post #101. It might serve you well to go back and read through the posts that you missed, as people have brought up very good questions and information.
I know you don't think very highly of Mr. Fista, but he's shared a lot of excellent information on here and is highly knowledgeable. We all learn from each other. I hope you can hear the criticisms with an open mind and be willing to share from a position of equality rather than authority. There's growers in here that have been around for 30 or 40 years, some have been growing since before I was born. And to be fair, Mr. Fista raised some very good points.
It sounds like you grow and teach quite a bit and have some experience yourself. Let's make this thread about sharing that experience in a friendly manner without talking down to anyone.
Personally, I don't think there's any one perfect way to grow plants. You can have guidelines and recommendations, but ultimately your soil mix, weather (if outdoors), water source, temps, and local ecology will all affect the health and growth of your plant. What is "dialed in" for you might not be the best route for someone else.
I get the vegan thing in the sense of keeping out bad ingredients, but I'd have no problems using EWC from horse manure in my soil mix. From a microbial perspective, it's an excellent choice. I wouldn't use guanos for other reasons, but there were some good points made on that subject earlier in the thread. I don't think that the quality of the end product would be diminished in the slightest by using these products, and the only proof I've seen is your word that people like it better.
I'd really like to see what else you have to share on the subject as well though....
Cheers,
CT
MM's post is on page 7, post #101. It might serve you well to go back and read through the posts that you missed, as people have brought up very good questions and information.
I know you don't think very highly of Mr. Fista, but he's shared a lot of excellent information on here and is highly knowledgeable. We all learn from each other. I hope you can hear the criticisms with an open mind and be willing to share from a position of equality rather than authority. There's growers in here that have been around for 30 or 40 years, some have been growing since before I was born. And to be fair, Mr. Fista raised some very good points.
It sounds like you grow and teach quite a bit and have some experience yourself. Let's make this thread about sharing that experience in a friendly manner without talking down to anyone.
Personally, I don't think there's any one perfect way to grow plants. You can have guidelines and recommendations, but ultimately your soil mix, weather (if outdoors), water source, temps, and local ecology will all affect the health and growth of your plant. What is "dialed in" for you might not be the best route for someone else.
I get the vegan thing in the sense of keeping out bad ingredients, but I'd have no problems using EWC from horse manure in my soil mix. From a microbial perspective, it's an excellent choice. I wouldn't use guanos for other reasons, but there were some good points made on that subject earlier in the thread. I don't think that the quality of the end product would be diminished in the slightest by using these products, and the only proof I've seen is your word that people like it better.
I'd really like to see what else you have to share on the subject as well though....
Cheers,
CT
Matt Rize
Member
Lunch break, sticky fingers
Lunch break, sticky fingers
I mentioned earlier that I am on a crew that busts out gardens. All by yourself... dude... I'd come up to trim with you just so we can swap veganics ideas.
More Matt Rize system of growing using liquid and powdered plant based organics to come... after work yall.
Lunch break, sticky fingers
well i want to talk vegan organics
ps:
that sucks, i only grow outdoors so im swamped from mid september to mid november every year. all by myself.
I mentioned earlier that I am on a crew that busts out gardens. All by yourself... dude... I'd come up to trim with you just so we can swap veganics ideas.
More Matt Rize system of growing using liquid and powdered plant based organics to come... after work yall.
Matt Rize
Member
The beauty of GC/MS and HPLC
The beauty of GC/MS and HPLC
They are looking for everything!!! There are hundreds of cannabinoids, terpenes, dozens of common garden toxins, molds, mildews, ect.
The beauty of GC/MS and HPLC
They are looking for everything!!! There are hundreds of cannabinoids, terpenes, dozens of common garden toxins, molds, mildews, ect.
Like in the first few minutes of The Life of Brian where the masses and crowds are looking for a sign from the Messiah Brian?
"He's given us a sign! It's his sandal!"
"No! It's his water gourd!"
"No! It's his staff!"
I can see the Canna crew and FatBoy Mike with his 'Advanced' team running through the streets of Vancouver across the Lion Gate Bridge into what's known as the Simpleton Section with their devotees and minions screaming for the next watered-down version of soluble potash.
At least they're consistent if nothing else.
What is it with the Canadian Snake Oil Association and the utter fascination with K2O anyway? Soluble Potash (K2O) and it's always, always @ 3% - perhaps Professor Matt can enlighten the dumb-ass American organic growers.
CC
After digging through all available info. on the net and the Website......MM's post pretty much covers my question....it's like a maze of secret BS that keeps guys like us from uncovering the fact that most of us already employ what they most likely use.
A whole portion of the horticulture industry is about secreting away and obfuscating horticultural science then bottling and branding it as proprietary solution
then again look at the people they are marketing to
a whole segment of people that would rather pay for a solution than simply understand the dynamics and create it for themselves
then again look at the people they are marketing to
a whole segment of people that would rather pay for a solution than simply understand the dynamics and create it for themselves
"hundreds of cannabinoids"!?! Citation please! You really need to get better about referencing dubious claims you make.
I know of many cannabinoids, but not hundreds. Basically that lab will test for the secondary metabolites most cannabis growers are interested in, however, for quantitative results they need standards of all those secondary metabolites. I know of a source (outside the US) for standards of THC, CBD, CBN, CBC (see below); but not for CBG, THCV, etc, etc. Standards from US sources are usually not pure (even though they claim they are[1]) and they are schedule 1 thus need DEA approval for lab use, and as was shown in the raided Colorado lab, the DEA is not OK with cannabis testing labs using US sourced standards (in the case I am referring to the lab simply applied for DEA approval and got raided!).
Any real lab would want to order from a source with >98% purity or make their own standards using TLC extracting from silica, or some other methods. However, using in-house created standards means there is no outside verification of standard quality/purity, thus ANY results from such a lab are not valid because we can't know for sure they are on the up and up (like is the case with claims made by Sam Skunkman, who I do not trust). I have doubts that lab uses quality schedule 1 standards (i.e. >98% purity), just like Dr. Hornsby who doesn't use good standards; thus his quantitative data is very flawed!
A good source outside the US for cannanbinod standards is Echo Pharmaceuticals. Using that source it's probably possible to order into Canada/Mexico and then ship from Canada/Mexico to US under DEA radar: http://www.echo-pharma.com/products-services-echo-pharmaceuticals.html
A better option for US based labs that want to source cannabinoid standards without doing so illegally (either via. the source above or in-house creation) is to use non-schedule 1 sources that are DEA-exempted. A source for such cannabinoid standards of very high purity is Cerillan. They sell standards of many cannabinoids, but those labeled as "NMI" are not DEA-exempt. Most labs in the US would be wise to use Cerllian as a source for cannabinoid standards if they want to have legit results, otherwise I wouldn't trust the lab as far as I could throw it, including SteepHill lab. Unless it has DEA approval to use true schedule 1 cannabinoid standards such as those from Sigma-Aldrich. Here is DEA-exempt cannabinoid standards from the US: http://www.cerilliant.com/shoponline/product_cat_list.aspx?text=cannabinoid
[1] For those who trust Sam Skunkman is telling the truth...
Where did you get standards? Please elaborate after you read my post about sourcing standards.
I tried to email them to ask what the ingredients are and to ask for references to peer-reviewed studies they (should be) using as a basis for their claims, but alas, they seem to be as dumb about creating a website as they are about creating a product. Their 'contact us' from is broken LOL: http://www.biocanna-organics.com/site/contact_us.php
@ Matt:
Can you please ask Kyle Kushman to come here and post in this thread about some of the open challenges/questions people have put to you? It seems like what you are posting is hearsay from Kyle and I think maybe Kyle should answer the challenges/questions you seem unable or unwilling to answer.
That said, I doubt Kyle will come here as I am sure he would be torn a new one for the many un-proven and flat out wrong claims I read on his veganics website. Just because he writes for HighTimes does not make him a guru, IMO he is far from a guru...
Can you please ask Kyle Kushman to come here and post in this thread about some of the open challenges/questions people have put to you? It seems like what you are posting is hearsay from Kyle and I think maybe Kyle should answer the challenges/questions you seem unable or unwilling to answer.
That said, I doubt Kyle will come here as I am sure he would be torn a new one for the many un-proven and flat out wrong claims I read on his veganics website. Just because he writes for HighTimes does not make him a guru, IMO he is far from a guru...
CT Guy has pointed it out but as if you did not notice it....come on!
I agree, Spurr....what a crappy time consuming website Biocanna has. At the advice of OMRI, I emailed Canna to request the NPK analysis.
AladdinSane
Member
That's because you did lol!
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