Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[Hydrosun]

NOT. It Seems a no vote for 19 = continued prohibition,continuing the status quo(see I actually used that term correctly), and removes NO prison penalties.

Saying that prop 19 supporters endorse prison times is another prohibitionist spin tactic. Doesnt work with us, dont insult our intelligence or your credibility is shot and is along the lines of the reefer madness folks. Dont be that guy.

You are just off your nut if you think throwing growers under the bus for the sake of micro gardeners is a step forward.

Prop 19 affirms by majority vote TERRIBLE law. As it stands now we are oppressed by an immoral law that has NO support from this community.

You seek to lend community support to this continued scheme of IMPRISONING growers.

Passing 19 may make it better for the CONSUMER but it does so at the expense of PRODUCERS and it asks this community to lend moral sanction to the imprisonment of humans over a flower.

History has shown that most immoral comprises fail. I view prop 19 as an immoral compromise and a violation of every human's unalienable rights to privacy and the pursuit of happiness; therefore I can't endorse it.

 

[BigBudBill]

You are just off your nut if you think throwing growers under the bus for the sake of micro gardeners is a step forward.

Prop 19 affirms by majority vote TERRIBLE law. As it stands now we are oppressed by an immoral law that has NO support from this community.

You seek to lend community support to this continued scheme of IMPRISONING growers.

Passing 19 may make it better for the CONSUMER but it does so at the expense of PRODUCERS and it asks this community to lend moral sanction to the imprisonment of humans over a flower.

History has shown that most immoral comprises fail. I view prop 19 as an immoral compromise and a violation of every human's unalienable rights to privacy and the pursuit of happiness; therefore I can't endorse it.

You are not really good at the spin. You are not half the spin doctor MeanMustard or Dizzle are. I would be willing to bet, that right now, your spin has cost you any credibility you thought your opinion was worth. Told you not to be THAT guy. Dont insult people's intelligence and then try to spin it as 19 is prohibition. I mean at least try the "it's decrim, not legalization spin", that at least has some vague attempt at saying not all growers are legal. But man...really? :
" I view prop 19 as an immoral compromise and a violation of every human's unalienable rights to privacy and the pursuit of happiness; therefore I can't endorse it." haha. Thanks for that, I havent laughed that hard since I first saw a lil Doogie clip.

 

[Hydrosun]

You are not really good at the spin. You are not half the spin doctor MeanMustard or Dizzle are. I would be willing to bet, that right now, your spin has cost you any credibility you thought your opinion was worth. Told you not to be THAT guy. Dont insult people's intelligence and then try to spin it as 19 is prohibition. I mean at least try the "it's decrim, not legalization spin", that at least has some vague attempt at saying not all growers are legal. But man...really? :
" I view prop 19 as an immoral compromise and a violation of every human's unalienable rights to privacy and the pursuit of happiness; therefore I can't endorse it." haha. Thanks for that, I havent laughed that hard since I first saw a lil Doogie clip.

Your discourse is about me personally, as opposed to the proposition you support.

Then you go on to discuss others opinions and styles but you refrain from discussion my moral objection.

Perhaps your bill will be a step forward and not a backwards step that retards the movement, but you have no way to know this for certain so you resort to ad hominem attacks.

Your stance seems to be "Seperate but equal" is better than how we are treated now so let's just roll with that. Years earlier the "Missouri Compromise" was great because now there wouldn't be any NEW slave states. Before that the "Mason Dixon Line" was perfect because at least north of the line no slaves would be born. The original version of The US Constitution was OK even though it allowed the slave trade it did phase out new slave importation.

The entire reason this poll has two YES options is because the language of your proposal is so reprehensible that even those in favor of the smallest crumb thrown our way will be holding their noses in disgust as they vote yes.

The spin seems to be coming form the side that wants this oppressed community to be pragmatic and submissively accept the food our master gives us as opposed to our natural rights.

Even if prop 19 is a step forward it falls way short, of the freedoms you and I are enjoying in the privacy of our own homes (smoking weed, growing weed, and debating freely on the internet). So vote yes and be happy with a small step, but don't forget the cause.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

You are just off your nut if you think throwing growers under the bus for the sake of micro gardeners is a step forward.

Prop 19 affirms by majority vote TERRIBLE law. As it stands now we are oppressed by an immoral law that has NO support from this community.

You seek to lend community support to this continued scheme of IMPRISONING growers.

Passing 19 may make it better for the CONSUMER but it does so at the expense of PRODUCERS and it asks this community to lend moral sanction to the imprisonment of humans over a flower.

History has shown that most immoral comprises fail. I view prop 19 as an immoral compromise and a violation of every human's unalienable rights to privacy and the pursuit of happiness; therefore I can't endorse it.

It will be better for the consumer, but it wont be any worst than it is for the producer.

Remember when 215 said you can only have 3 plants flowering and 3 plants vegging? Now you can grow as much as you want....

19 can be the same way. Your guaranteed a 5x5 no matter what, but if you lobby your local reps these limitations can be increased.

If you want change, work for it. Thats what makes giving local counties control so great. It is much easier to effect change at a local level.

Would it not be easier to get these increases once marijuana is "legalized" in CA, compared to shooting 19 down and rewriting another proposition which allows everyone to grow as much as they want with no regulations?

It will be easier to cross the river of prohibition on stepping stones, rather than try and jump it in one attempt.


EDIT::: Are you really trying to make the case that the prohibition of MJ is that the same or worst than what blacks had to face during slavery and the civil rights movement?

Hydro, I really am becoming sickened to all these analogies you continue to misuse. To say that today's america is that of hitler's nazi germany or that mj prohibition is that of the black's civil rights movement is a serious disrespect for those who suffered and died during these times.

I try to not attack people, but im incredibly disgusted by these statements.

 

[dagnabit]

What offenses besides HASH POSSESSION and a micro grow does this bill REMOVE prison penalties?

Will the current ICmagers who grow in CA with OUT a med card still be felons?

It seems a vote for prop 19 = continued prohibition and the status quo as regards MANY ICmag growers.

The only difference is now not only do the squares endorse imprisoning growers, but so does every prop 19 supporter. Thanks guys.

so you say hash and legal growing are not more freedom?

hmmmmmm...

before 19 hash and growing are illegal

after 19 hash and growing are legal

damn 19 and its prohibition!!!

but your "morals" are questionable..
i dont see you wanting 215 repealed...

 

[dagnabit]

Passing 19 may make it better for the CONSUMER but it does so at the expense of PRODUCERS

how?

and it asks this community to lend moral sanction to the imprisonment of humans over a flower.

how many patients have been released because of 215?

History has shown that most immoral comprises fail. I view prop 19 as an immoral compromise and a violation of every human's unalienable rights to privacy and the pursuit of happiness; therefore I can't endorse it.

history hath shown that mankind are more disposed too suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they have become accustomed.

you are suggesting that the current form of evil is sufferable and should not be abolished?

 

[dagnabit]

I havent laughed that hard since I first saw a lil Doogie clip.

y/w

 

[dagnabit]

It will be better for the consumer, but it wont be any worst than it is for the producer.

Remember when 215 said you can only have 3 plants flowering and 3 plants vegging? Now you can grow as much as you want....

19 can be the same way. Your guaranteed a 5x5 no matter what, but if you lobby your local reps these limitations can be increased.

If you want change, work for it. Thats what makes giving local counties control so great. It is much easier to effect change at a local level.

Would it not be easier to get these increases once marijuana is "legalized" in CA, compared to shooting 19 down and rewriting another proposition which allows everyone to grow as much as they want with no regulations?

It will be easier to cross the river of prohibition on stepping stones, rather than try and jump it in one attempt.


EDIT::: Are you really trying to make the case that the prohibition of MJ is that the same or worst than what blacks had to face during slavery and the civil rights movement?

Hydro, I really am becoming sickened to all these analogies you continue to misuse. To say that today's america is that of hitler's nazi germany or that mj prohibition is that of the black's civil rights movement is a serious disrespect for those who suffered and died during these times.

I try to not attack people, but im incredibly disgusted by these statements.

remember in an attempt to justify a position i believe he advocated a 50 y/o sleeping with a teenager as acceptable (if that was not hydro im sorry!!!! i cant remember who that pedo was but it was a "anti 19" type again if it was not you hydro SORRY

 

[Hydrosun]

It will be better for the consumer, but it wont be any worst than it is for the producer.

Remember when 215 said you can only have 3 plants flowering and 3 plants vegging? Now you can grow as much as you want....

19 can be the same way. Your guaranteed a 5x5 no matter what, but if you lobby your local reps these limitations can be increased.

If you want change, work for it. Thats what makes giving local counties control so great. It is much easier to effect change at a local level.

Would it not be easier to get these increases once marijuana is "legalized" in CA, compared to shooting 19 down and rewriting another proposition which allows everyone to grow as much as they want with no regulations?

It will be easier to cross the river of prohibition on stepping stones, rather than try and jump it in one attempt.


EDIT::: Are you really trying to make the case that the prohibition of MJ is that the same or worst than what blacks had to face during slavery and the civil rights movement?

Hydro, I really am becoming sickened to all these analogies you continue to misuse. To say that today's america is that of hitler's nazi germany or that mj prohibition is that of the black's civil rights movement is a serious disrespect for those who suffered and died during these times.

I try to not attack people, but im incredibly disgusted by these statements.

If you have personally been in the can or have family / friends that have been in the can over this flower, then perhaps you can see the analogy. A day of slavery is a day too many, being hunted or intimidated into submission is not freedom.

Have far less of us been imprisoned or killed for MJ as compared to other human rights abuses through history? YES, but that does stepping stones moral or the analogy invalid.

I hope you are correct that CA will have less weed related arrests and imprisonment and this is a steeping stone. And you are possibly correct that this will be a boon for all CA producers, because post 19 is going to be the wild wild west for a while as the feds and localities figure out what to do.

It will be fun to watch, and I hope the passion continues after the vote and we do something about all those in this community that have or are facing BS charges and felony criminal records because of this flower.

 

[BigBudBill]

It will be better for the consumer, but it wont be any worst than it is for the producer.

Remember when 215 said you can only have 3 plants flowering and 3 plants vegging? Now you can grow as much as you want....

19 can be the same way. Your guaranteed a 5x5 no matter what, but if you lobby your local reps these limitations can be increased.

If you want change, work for it. Thats what makes giving local counties control so great. It is much easier to effect change at a local level.

Would it not be easier to get these increases once marijuana is "legalized" in CA, compared to shooting 19 down and rewriting another proposition which allows everyone to grow as much as they want with no regulations?

It will be easier to cross the river of prohibition on stepping stones, rather than try and jump it in one attempt.


EDIT::: Are you really trying to make the case that the prohibition of MJ is that the same or worst than what blacks had to face during slavery and the civil rights movement?

Hydro, I really am becoming sickened to all these analogies you continue to misuse. To say that today's america is that of hitler's nazi germany or that mj prohibition is that of the black's civil rights movement is a serious disrespect for those who suffered and died during these times.

I try to not attack people, but im incredibly disgusted by these statements.

I would bet he is a Holocaust denier too. POS

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Remember my crazy statement that 2012 was the year for california, oregon, nevada, washington, and colorado? well i have already posted the link to the oregon iniative. Now it seems that my crystal ball is better than most because look at this.
http://blog.mpp.org/uncategorized/p...um=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogmpp+(MPP+Blog)

2012 has always been the year. Now I have proof on two of the 5 states that I told you about. If you wait a little longer I will prove the other 3. I will keep you updated. keep arguing amongst yourselves.

 

[BigBudBill]

An immediate family member did time for what would be legal under 19. FUCK you for wanting THAT prohibition continued by wanting people to vote no on 19, and justifying what THEY did to my family. There's your slavery.
Your analogies suck.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Remember my crazy statement that 2012 was the year for california, oregon, nevada, washington, and colorado? well i have already posted the link to the oregon iniative. Now it seems that my crystal ball is better than most because look at this.
http://blog.mpp.org/uncategorized/p...um=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogmpp+(MPP+Blog)

2012 has always been the year. Now I have proof on two of the 5 states that I told you about. If you wait a little longer I will prove the other 3. I will keep you updated. keep arguing amongst yourselves.

Herer tried to pass legalization for the last 20 years. Just because you have something written holds no value if you cant raise the capital required to run a campaign. Hell, if one of the most famous stoners couldn't raise the required 100k to make the ballot, how in the hell is some nobody going to raise the funds without dipping into their own pockets like R.Lee has done and if 19 fails after Lee dumping millions of dollars into it, you think someone else is going to be quick to jump on that train? I certainly dont.

 

[dagnabit]

An immediate family member did time for what would be legal under 19. FUCK you for wanting THAT prohibition continued by wanting people to vote no on 19, and justifying what THEY did to my family. There's your slavery.
Your analogies suck.

18 months with the fldoc
3 years probation and $11,529.00 in assorted fees
thousands in stolen property by LEO
watching my non smoking wife dragged off in cuffs

priceless!!!
all preventable by 19..hydro wants to keep whipping me till i say toby i guess...

well through all that.. IM STILL KUNTE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!!

but like i said 215 did not free a single patient..hydro's moral compunctions are selectively applied at best and completely fabricated most likely...

 

[dagnabit]

Remember my crazy statement that 2012 was the year for california, oregon, nevada, washington, and colorado? well i have already posted the link to the oregon iniative. Now it seems that my crystal ball is better than most because look at this.
http://blog.mpp.org/uncategorized/p...um=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogmpp+(MPP+Blog)

2012 has always been the year. Now I have proof on two of the 5 states that I told you about. If you wait a little longer I will prove the other 3. I will keep you updated. keep arguing amongst yourselves.

what about the mayan calendar!!!@!!!!

 

[dagnabit]

Remember my crazy statement that 2012 was the year for california, oregon, nevada, washington, and colorado? well i have already posted the link to the oregon iniative. Now it seems that my crystal ball is better than most because look at this.
http://blog.mpp.org/uncategorized/p...um=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogmpp+(MPP+Blog)

2012 has always been the year. Now I have proof on two of the 5 states that I told you about. If you wait a little longer I will prove the other 3. I will keep you updated. keep arguing amongst yourselves.

thats not a link to a bill or prop.. its an oped?!?!

 

[BigBudBill]

Remember my crazy statement that 2012 was the year for california, oregon, nevada, washington, and colorado? well i have already posted the link to the oregon iniative. Now it seems that my crystal ball is better than most because look at this.
http://blog.mpp.org/uncategorized/p...um=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogmpp+(MPP+Blog)

2012 has always been the year. Now I have proof on two of the 5 states that I told you about. If you wait a little longer I will prove the other 3. I will keep you updated. keep arguing amongst yourselves.

As much as I would love to reach the same conclusion as you, this:
"when you’re thinking about supporting a statewide initiative, as MPP is considering doing in Washington state for the November 2012 ballot."

Is not what I would consider proof.

It says they(MPP) are considering thinking about sponsoring a 2012 statewide initiative.


Maybe it will happen,maybe it wont. But I sure aint voting no on 19 because someone is thinking about considering sponsoring an initiative in WA st. Sorry.

 

[dagnabit]

18 months with the fldoc
3 years probation and $11,529.00 in assorted fees
thousands in stolen property by LEO
watching my non smoking wife dragged off in cuffs

priceless!!!

ohhh i forgot the 11-15 spent learning how to use a slingblade while a guy with a shotgun "supervised" my progress.

 

[BigBudBill]

ohhh i forgot the 11-15 spent learning how to use a slingblade while a guy with a shotgun "supervised" my progress.

Damn that would be a great Yes on 19 commercial.

 

[BigBudBill]

See, I think the no voters that are growers attempting to maintain the status quo dont realize that enough of us have had enough(meaning us or family in US prison system) and we smell bullshit a mile away now. They can try to throw whatever pitch they want, it aint gettin past us. Years of hearing the lines and preparing retorts have got us to the point that no ANTI's will debate in a public forum. NONE. NOT-ONE-SINGLE-ONE-OF-THEM.

Let me say it again.

Years of hearing the lines and preparing retorts have got us to the point that no ANTI's will debate in a public forum. NONE. NOT-ONE-SINGLE-ONE-OF-THEM.

There is a reason:

"The weed be lettin you know" -Smokey

At this point, it really feels as we have a bunch of little Anslinger Jrs running around trying whatever possible to protect what they have going on.
And they will be remembered for what they said here after the vote.

"Aint no runnin from...
Karma. Aint no runnin"