CALIFORNIA VOTERS ONLY--SHOULD CANNABIS BE LEGALIZED AND TAXED AND REGULATED?

[Smoke Buddy]

Yea, I have. I'm unemployed right now. It's your own fault for wasting 2 years looking for a job. You could have went back to school. That's what I'm doing. It doesn't take me 2 years of sitting on my ass to realize that. This isn't about you and me.

This bill will effect California but it will effect the country as a whole. I think people in California can't see far enough to realize just what an opportunity they have here.



Thousand of people will become 'jobless' because of this bill.. ok. Hundreds of thousands go to jail every year!

If you grow pot and sell it for a living then you are lazy. I have no problem with people who grow and sell as a form of supplemental income.

Start a real business. YOU can be the one that creates jobs. Instead of sitting around and waiting for something to happen like you have for the last 2 years.

Ya'll keep saying Cali this Cali that. This is bigger than you and me. Think of this country as a whole. Until you do that, and see how many people are being punished all over this country. How many people are being kidnapped,killed, etc because of the illegality of cannabis. You are to narrow minded to see that in order to help the majority the minority will have to comprise. Then you are no help to the legalization movement in this country.

LOL... Again, you have no clue what you are talking about. The thousands that will lose their jobs will lose their homes and property too in many cases. There are NOT hundreds of thousands going to jail here for weed. There are about 20 percent of the cannabis related arrests that go to jail. The rest are 100 buck fines misdemeaner TICKETS! The guys who went to jail will still go under the proposed law.... Im getting tired of these unexplained numbers you guys keep using. 800,000 is for the entire country.
I did start my own business in 2005. Im not going to explain anything about it to you because you arent actually interested in the other point of view it seems. Lazy? Ive never been called that before. And YES, this is about Cali, not your state. Why dont you guys work to get decriminalization, mmj and then legalization like WE have? IMO, you have a very skewed view so Im done trying to discuss it with you. Good luck with your job hunt.

 

[SmilinBob]

Don't assume. You don't know the work I do to help my state.

I see California voters are happy the way things are in their state. They are unwilling to help a nation because their state is 'good'.

We are happy. Why would we make a sacrifice to help the majority of cannabis users throughout the country.

Good bye

Please PM me and clue me in since I'm so clueless. Because I keep reading the same response from all of your no voters.

Good luck with your job hunt.

Thank you. You too.
Unless this was meant to be sarcastic then .... you

 

[Smoke Buddy]

No, not sarcastic Bob. I actually respect what you are saying other than the snide comments about me being lazy and wasting 2 years,, just so laughable but hey you're entitled to your unfounded assumptions. I dont think I attacked you personally at all did I?
Anywho, really do wish you well with your job search and your crusade to legalize.. Now go do it in your state.

 

[drymouth]

I’m sick and tired of hearing about “800 thousand people go to jail” thing, maybe those 800 odd some people shouldn’t of been playing around with weed in the first place if there just going to cry about it… Man the fuck up! And take responsibility for your actions! If you got your hands in something illegal whether it be smoking to selling or breeding or anything illegal for that matter be prepared to take a hit. When I stared in this biz I was already ready to take a long vacation if need be. Very simple principles "if you don’t want to go to jail, don’t fucking break the law!" 800 odd something people go to jail…. Please…. And for anyone questioning me…. I’ve been to prison not “jai” but not for weed if ever I get caught (knock on wood) I won’t be like “oh we got to make a bill, free the people holler medical” fuck that! I put myself here. “do the crime do the time!” What ever happen to that saying? Now its “we need a bill, tax it, oh I’m medical” fuck all that! I know people in federal prison right now in prison for this and there the most anti government people ever! Either way it goes were getting fucked from every angle by the gov they want to tax it and send us to prison! Dam aint life grand!

I know someones going to get on here and tell me I'm Ignorant, wake up, I'm selfish....
quite frankly I don’t give a fuck! It’s us against them that’s how it’s been in my neck of the woods since way back when. Making this bill is like making a deal with the gov and for anybody thats been in custody before knows what making a deal with the gov means.

 

[pimpjuice]

-

 

[ocean_grown]

...so evidentally, my response to a members post in my visitor board was too long...so i guess i will post it up here....


why should i chill out? because your not going to vote? being against the taxation of an agricultural product, and the view that anyone who thinks this is a gateway law is as ignorant as those who view cannabis as a gateway drug, proves that you are a detriment to the cannabis community, and really, that you just arent very smart. now, normally, i would take the time to try to change your mind, bring you around to the side of righteousness, but we are out of time, and if you are going to publicly voice your opposition to begining the process of legalizing cannabis, then fuck you, im gonna call you out and do my best to use you as an example of the stupidity and gullibility of potheads. "BUT I CANT IN GOOD CONSCIOUS VOTE FOR SOMETHING I AM AGAINST REGARDLESS OF THE MORAL IMPLICATIONS IT MAY HOLD FOR OTHERS"---first of all, that sentence makes no sense, but the real issue i have with it is your absolute, self serving, disgustingly short sighted, selfish attitude. we, as a group(cannabis users) are worse off w people like you amongst us. you are either for the movement or against it and i will treat you accordingly.
---in case you havent figured it out...i dont mind being called an asshole...but being called ignorant and being compared to the people who believe cannabis to be a gateway drug kinda pisses me off a little bit....

How does that sentence not make sense? I disagree with Cannabis being used to fuel a government which I disagree with fundamentally. I do not believe that people need any kind of governing power to live in a civil manner and I resist that power at every opportunity. I am not against this bill because I am a dealer who is afraid of losing profit, I am against this bill because it represents a power which I am against gaining a foothold on the future of the Cannabis industry. What will you say if and when I am right and the industry becomes completely controlled by government/corporate interests? You tend to look at the possibilities from a more positive perspective, I am trying to sound an alarm so to speak and get people to look at the bill a second time and think objectively about whether or not they agree with the words in the document before they jump on the bandwagon. I hope I am wrong. I hope this bill passes and we can all live in a stoner paradise, but life has taught me to not try and fix what isn't broken.. We got a great thing already so I am very cautious of letting government try and regulate what it now has little if any control over.

I understand this can be a subject which would evoke a lot of passion in someone, but really the insults are unnecessary; they do nothing to further your argument and only make me take your posts less seriously. I am against this bill because I am against the taxation of cannabis and the limitation of growers, I am 100% for the legalization of Cannabis that IS prop 215 and would have been for that other bill, AB or whatever it was, which would have released all nonviolent CA pot prisoners and was actually legalization. In my eyes this bill going up in November is just another tragic example of the furthering of corporatism and state control.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I’m sick and tired of hearing about “800 thousand people go to jail” thing, maybe those 800 odd some people shouldn’t of been playing around with weed in the first place if there just going to cry about it… Man the fuck up! And take responsibility for your actions! If you got your hands in something illegal whether it be smoking to selling or breeding or anything illegal for that matter be prepared to take a hit. When I stared in this biz I was already ready to take a long vacation if need be. Very simple principles "if you don’t want to go to jail, don’t fucking break the law!" 800 odd something people go to jail…. Please…. And for anyone questioning me…. I’ve been to prison not “jai” but not for weed if ever I get caught (knock on wood) I won’t be like “oh we got to make a bill, free the people holler medical” fuck that! I put myself here. “do the crime do the time!” What ever happen to that saying? Now its “we need a bill, tax it, oh I’m medical” fuck all that! I know people in federal prison right now in prison for this and there the most anti government people ever! Either way it goes were getting fucked from every angle by the gov they want to tax it and send us to prison! Dam aint life grand!

I know someones going to get on here and tell me I'm Ignorant, wake up, I'm selfish....
quite frankly I don’t give a fuck! It’s us against them that’s how it’s been in my neck of the woods since way back when. Making this bill is like making a deal with the gov and for anybody thats been in custody before knows what making a deal with the gov means.

I'm glad your so content with going to prison, but I'm not. I believe everyone should be able to grow with out fear.

 

[ocean_grown]

I just re-read this thread.. So far I am very upset at the way the anti-Prop 19 arguments have been responded to. It seems that every good point against the bill gets ignored and is just responded to with "800,000 people, come on man". You want this to be a discussion, I assume, as this is a forum.. I suggest you look back and pick apart the arguments against Prop 19 more thoroughly as there is some meat to this discussion which is being pushed back on the table, so to speak.

Interesting thread, amazing how many seem ignorant to the restrictions and taxes which are mainly what the proposition is composed of.. Or maybe your attentions were caught at the word "legalization"? I would recommend as responsible voters you all go back and take one more look. Wolf in sheeps clothing I say..

 

[icon]

Anything natural should'nt be illegal

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

This exactly what I don't want! This will drive every mom & pop out of business. What's your stake in this Sam, already stashed enough away?

I want to stop the arrests of over 800,000, plain and simple.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

lol man ur the biggest nut job in here.yes he will be the only person to get the recreational permit.you are all over trhe place this bill in no way will stop 800,000 people from going to jail and if you thank so plez tell me HOW. we are years and years aways from big ag doing anything to grow mass pot so get over ur idea that this is anything but money.read the bill tell me how it helps any1.GET OFF THIS BILLS NUTTS ITS NOT A GOOD BILL IT HELPS ONLY RICH PEOPLE PS PLEZ TAKE Richard LEES NUTTS OUT UR MOUTH

You are a fool spreading fear and lies.
Do you have any plan to stop the over 800,000 arrests a year in the USA?
If this passes big Agri-Biz will jump on it, and the path to full USA legalization is pretty clear.
I will not waste my time trying to convince you as your mind is already made up, isn't it?
As for having Richard Lee's Nutts in my mouth, please come tell me this in person in Amsterdam and I will happy to let you know how I feel about internet trolls like you, man up, or shut up dude....
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

SAM are you even from Cali?

Yes I am a California voter, are you?

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

AMEN!

I'm guessing Sam has already made a fortune off herb, he's been around for a long time. You living out your golden retirement years Sam?

I never sold herb at inflated prices to make a fortune, or sold herb at all, let me know if anything else I have done is wrong?

-SamS

 

[cannaboy]

the only good bit of the bill I can see after months of trying to pull it apart and find a loop nobody can plug up,, the only thing I see helping is the fact that the police can no longer have the powers that be to bust on the street and go home tear down a room jail and remand the medicanal user and let him go months later after the courts free them,, this bill stops you having this problem!!!!!! they no longer can take the piss!!!!!


you all still can take the piss just grow carefully not going over numbers or your 25?? how many square feet and watts are you allowed and plant no's..

If you are over the limit then the bill nolonger applys so it will piss off a few people ...

If all that will sell dope wise is your beloved clones then don't give them to dick's or big buisness this is where sam got puncked lasttime, if they don't have it they can't sell your special stuff there will always be a blackmarket,,, keep your stuff, seeds will be legal in the usa soon but sam will have his 20 fingers and toes in everything... 40 years very well spent if you want to ask me.. If he wasn't a doctor thats way older than me I would have liked to have met him in the 70's and 80's he is an inspiration for us all..

Fuck big agri buisness nobody needs it if you grow live a meek life and grow food..

There all fucked if we don't all pay tax the big rockafella's don't and if all the population didn't it would be funny the news would,,

 

[cannaboy]

If you read all the posts in this thread it is real clear that the new Tc2010 does not affect medical users under 215. Or read the Tc2010 initiative yourself to be clear.

-SamS

Sam please pm me or post a link to this proposed initiative..

I am very interested in the matter,,

 

[binaryfission]

Sam please pm me or post a link to this proposed initiative..

I am very interested in the matter,,

interested enough to use google?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

No joke, use google.

or,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_19_(2010)

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/1972calmjprop.htm

http://www.normlsc.org/wordpress/?page_id=1078

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I have explained my reasons several times in this thread but basically it is because I believe Cannabis should be normalized and brought into mainstream society.
I am tired of millions of people having their lives destroyed because they smoked a joint.
I have fought for Tax and Regulation all my life as I believe it is the only way to normalize Cannabis.
Bring big biz and big agriculture into the trade and government to tax and regulate.
This is the way any normal product like alcohol or cigaretts, to food and gasoline and clothing are produced and sold.
Almost everyone here on this site buys products from big agriculture, big business, as well as pays taxes and buys products regulated by the government.
I want Cannabis so normalized that it is treated the same as all other normal products.
I realize this will take a while to achieve, so we need to start now.
Remember no one will make you buy Cannabis if you want to grow your own, like growing your own veggies, fruit, making your own beer, or wine, but lets be honest, how many people that drink make their own beer and wine? I guess maybe .01%. After Cannabis has been legal a decade and people are used to buying from their local retailer, I don't expect many people will be motivated to grow Cannabis indoors under lights, I know of no one that grows grapes under lights to make their own wine, or very many people that even make their own beer. Even less that grow their own tobacco.
I do know quite a bit of people that grow their own veggies, and I guess at least some of these people just might continue to grow Cannabis if legal, but not to make money, just because they want something that may be harder to find like Bio-Dynamic Organically grown veggies or Cannabis.

-SamS

 

[ratdawgie]

Clarification

Clarification

"Does not increase taxes or reduce quantities for medical cannabis patients." (from impact section of http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.p...zation_Initiative_(2010)#Impact_if_successful )

Better yet Sam... after PMing him please comment further on this thread (as I am a PM challenged newbie to forums, etc.)

I am still in the decision stage of this matter. I have commented on other thread(s) in various "states of mind" re: this initiative... I am a current legal MM patient and only do a small grow for my own needs.

I am trying to make up my mind on how I will vote on the Prop. The issue of how it would affect the current status of MM law will probably be a deciding factor.

Currently the pro's from my perspective:
A further movement away from draconian laws re: arrest, seizure, etc.
Removal/ reduction in the violent criminal element that has been rising in the state re: pot production.
A baby step toward further improvements in pot laws, and a huge example to the rest of the country re: changing the national mindset.
Maybe save $150/ year on the cost of a script.

Currently the cons from my perspective:
Many locals who make a modest living by their grows... their lifestyles will be turned upside down. I am not talking here about the large commercial and out-of-country cartels tearing up public lands and killing folks for $$.
The 18-21 year olds...wtf? I get that it's easier to pass the law this way and that legislature can change this later (NORML's hope) but I have doubts it will happen anything close to timely.
The way the law leaves each municipality to make their own regulations... read off the news link on icmag re: Shasta county sheriff using federal drug $$ re: pot to augment his budget. This money should be used entirely toward meth eradication, an absolute scourge in Shasta and surrounding counties. Also each DA and Sheriff form these N. CA counties has their own redneck bias against pot... reference Butte County DA's comments after a recent massive raid on local clubs.... Ramsey stating" the way he "reads" the current law is exchange of $ for MM is not allowed.. ludicrous.
The 25 sq. foot thing: can someone please tell me what they will measure?? Canopy, footprint, is this up for DA/ Sheriff interpretation? Cuz CA LEA ain't longhaired liberals in N Ca... they are really unevolved, redneck leaning good ol' boys who delight in "reading" laws in a way that allows them to screw with folks.

Rambling on. Bottom line, if the law initiates what it says it will AND doesn't touch current 215 and 420 law, then I'll prob. vote in favor and you'll see my vote in the poll. I will console the "good" but probably illegal moderate local growers by helping them move to adapt to the new scene.

If not, I will prob. vote against.

Forgive me for being "Polly-Anna" here (and rambling), but like most other issues, there is more than two possibilities of mindset to adopt here. With a concerted effort, all MM level users AND the local growers could unite their cause and begin to drive this process in a direction that might benefit both, by becoming involved in how their particular municipality will "regulate"... and get a jump on that "argument to be" NOW, with level headed advocates speaking to local governments about creating an evolved approach to creating their zoning and tax laws/ policies. The CA county (dare I say N CA county) who creates the most workable, evolved, and level headed approach to these issues will reap not only a couple of years of $ income to government AND $ advantage to local growers; it will ALSO be a model for other counties to adopt language for their laws, thus affecting all of us statewide and in many ways nationally.

I'm telling you: make YOUR county the GO TO place with evolved regulations creation. The whole growing world will still be turned upside down I know, but you'll grab a couple years of advantage while other counties are fumbling with their approach AND illustrate, by example, how the rest of the state/ county needs to think/ behave. I'll take my response off the air... lmao.

 

[ratdawgie]

Apology

Apology

Sorry Sam.. while I was typing you were already responding... thanks for those additional links.

Still seeking the answer in those re: will current MM scripted folk still have the same rights and numbers allowed as now: plant numbers, etc.

Also noted is 18-21 yr olds (and younger if I read correctly) can still be scripted MM users and not go to jail.

This line baffles me... everything I have read so far seems to prohibit (in proposed law) sharing of cannabis between individuals.. yet I now spot this:

(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.