CALIFORNIA VOTERS ONLY--SHOULD CANNABIS BE LEGALIZED AND TAXED AND REGULATED?

[bluekush]

so if I don't have a med card and I grow outside the 5x5 area are you saying they won't arrest me? I'm just wondering because if you stay within your med card guidelines for the most part you will be fine and 800,000 is nationwide not california I know you guys are on your good of the nation kick butg if other states want tax and regulate maybe they should do something about it not just wait for california to pass a bad bill so they can get a better one here a link that jack the grower posted had some valid points worth a look.
http://vimeo.com/12524582

http://m.youtube.com/watch?client=mv-google&v=dLpHwDJDR-s

http://m.youtube.com/watch?client=mv-google&v=X8WzBE_Hdr8

 

[Sarcasm]

Greed controls those who argue against the legalization of marijuana.

But it isn't legalization.

 

[F_T_P!]

But it isn't legalization.

Correct, it is Tax and Regulate, giving the government and corporations the power to control the cannabis industry.

If it were legalization, the rules for cannabis and roses would be the same.

 

[subrob]

...so evidentally, my response to a members post in my visitor board was too long...so i guess i will post it up here....


why should i chill out? because your not going to vote? being against the taxation of an agricultural product, and the view that anyone who thinks this is a gateway law is as ignorant as those who view cannabis as a gateway drug, proves that you are a detriment to the cannabis community, and really, that you just arent very smart. now, normally, i would take the time to try to change your mind, bring you around to the side of righteousness, but we are out of time, and if you are going to publicly voice your opposition to begining the process of legalizing cannabis, then fuck you, im gonna call you out and do my best to use you as an example of the stupidity and gullibility of potheads. "BUT I CANT IN GOOD CONSCIOUS VOTE FOR SOMETHING I AM AGAINST REGARDLESS OF THE MORAL IMPLICATIONS IT MAY HOLD FOR OTHERS"---first of all, that sentence makes no sense, but the real issue i have with it is your absolute, self serving, disgustingly short sighted, selfish attitude. we, as a group(cannabis users) are worse off w people like you amongst us. you are either for the movement or against it and i will treat you accordingly.
---in case you havent figured it out...i dont mind being called an asshole...but being called ignorant and being compared to the people who believe cannabis to be a gateway drug kinda pisses me off a little bit....

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

so if I don't have a med card and I grow outside the 5x5 area are you saying they won't arrest me? I'm just wondering because if you stay within your med card guidelines for the most part you will be fine and 800,000 is nationwide not california I know you guys are on your good of the nation kick butg if other states want tax and regulate maybe they should do something about it not just wait for california to pass a bad bill so they can get a better one here a link that jack the grower posted had some valid points worth a look.
http://vimeo.com/12524582

http://m.youtube.com/watch?client=mv-google&v=dLpHwDJDR-s

http://m.youtube.com/watch?client=mv-google&v=X8WzBE_Hdr8

First of all I would say the over 800,000 Americans arrested are our mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, and neighbors, this has to be stopped.
Second the Cannabis arrests in California were higher then in any other state, this is under prop 215. Over 80,000 arrests for Cannabis in California last year. If you fool yourself into thinking you are safe think again...
We need to begin the process to Tax and Regulate nation wide, starting with California.

I did watch the 3 videos, but was not impressed, full of misinformation. Dennis who I have known for more then 35 years, needs to stick to medical Cannabis, and leave recreational to those that care about the issue. (stopping the arrests)
The president of California Cannabis Inc, needs to read the initiative before he comments on it, his lack of understanding is a joke.
All the people who oppose the Tax and Regulate initiative, when do you plan to stop the over 800,000 arrests yearly in the USA, and how? Don't you think enough is enough?

-SamS

 

[jescowhite]

I have fought for 45 years to have Cannabis brought into the mainstream, and I understand the easiest way may well be to give big biz a piece of the pie, to grow and sell Cannabis, and government a piece by taxing and regulating the industry like they do with alcohol. I want Cannabis to be brought into the mainstream.
I know that if Cannabis is taxed and sold legally people will not go to jail for growing a personal supply at home. I also suspect few people will grow at home after a decade of legal Cannabis at the 7-11. Maybe about the same that make their own beer or wine, less then .01% of drinkers.
To me the real decision growers need to make before they cast their ballot in November is do they care more about their personal income then the 800,000 plus arrested each year?
I would find it more then unbelievable if the reason the initiative fails by a few % is because of Cannabis growers in the state not wanting to lose their income. For growers to join ranks with the cops, prison guards, prohibitionists, federal government jerks from the DEA and NIDA, to defeat the initiative would be really a sad day for Cannabis, and me.
So lets hear, if you are a California voter and grower, just why you will support or not support the Tax and Regulate initiative this November?

-SamS

7-11 cannabis sounds pretty crappy. I hope it never goes that mainstream. I'd rather not see it taxed & regulated. Getting arrested for cannabis isn't the end of the world, you could say it's the cost of doing business, in california, colorado anyone who wants to smoke legal can easily do so if they choose.

 

[Neo 420]

7-11 cannabis sounds pretty crappy. I hope it never goes that mainstream. I'd rather not see it taxed & regulated. Getting arrested for cannabis isn't the end of the world, you could say it's the cost of doing business, in california, colorado anyone who wants to smoke legal can easily do so if they choose.

 

[cpower]

look Richard Lee put 1.5 mill of his own money to get this bill going its all about money not about helping people.he will be the only person to get the permit to sell weed in oakland "non medical cannabis" thats alot of money he will make..its alredy worked out money money money any1 that thanks diff is lost in space

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Correct, it is Tax and Regulate, giving the government and corporations the power to control the cannabis industry.

If it were legalization, the rules for cannabis and roses would be the same.

to yiu I say. read this again

MOST IMPORTANT POINT I HAVE MADE IN THIS THREAD. and I am being nice again too. the caps are for joy

oh I have to make this point. Is is about what I like to call "the magic zone of being limited to states rights, at first."

There is a beautiful thing I just realized about this whole situation if cali legalizes. (All REAL Big businesses make in the billions each, not even the biggest pot shop is close to that, so dont consider blue sky and cali growers that went to Colorado big business) ACTUAL BIG BUSINESS CANT TOUCH THIS MARKET. It would fuck them. This market is designed for people with less money, just by default. all the old horrible laws and propaganda agaisnst pot made it this way. All large corporations obey FEDERAL LAW, and most international. They also listen to old people. They wont touch it. They have to much to risk financially, and image wise, to put a dime up on the gray market. This is due to the fact that it is way to much to money and time to invest in to something that isnt set in stone in law or social acceptance. They are already hurting to bad in the current world market to risk it. We must spin this to or advantage. Make our weakness our strength. Just like in greco roman wrestling

This leaves the door open for us to create our own system based on quality and small growers. Cali will be like Amsterdam. There will be a few big shops chains like Bull dog, and Green House, but there will be plenty of room for you small growers. The Big chains will be blue sky and what not, but this is capitolism and there will always be small business. Even in The Jet engine business their are small competitive folk. Why? they are always on the cutting edge, and hve some very nice artisan product.

The hash, and hemp market will explode too, opening up room for even more new small nitch grows. custom hash blends will be like secret recipes.

A legalized cali market would be the best thing you ever experienced.

we must do it like this. please read my whole thread it is full of good stuff and if we can get people on board in cali, and colorado it will be great for the small grower. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=143213

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

7-11 cannabis sounds pretty crappy. I hope it never goes that mainstream. I'd rather not see it taxed & regulated. Getting arrested for cannabis isn't the end of the world, you could say it's the cost of doing business, in california, colorado anyone who wants to smoke legal can easily do so if they choose.

I wonder if you have any idea what is really going on?
Over 800,000 arrests a year, 3/4 for simple possession.
These people were not in the biz, they were simple smokers get it?
California leads the nation in state arrests, did you even know that? Over 80,000 last year.
As for 7-11 Cannabis being crappy, where do you buy your beer or wine? Is it pretty crappy?
I am trying to end the arrests, what is your goal?
I can't wait for it to go mainstream, I have fought for this for over 40 years.
I am amused at the shortsighted, self serving people trying to fight the Tax and Regulate bill to protect their livelihood, or whatever.
It all comes down to what is best for them and them alone.
What about the over 800,000 arrested?

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

look Richard Lee put 1.5 mill of his own money to get this bill going its all about money not about helping people.he will be the only person to get the permit to sell weed in oakland "non medical cannabis" thats alot of money he will make..its alredy worked out money money money any1 that thanks diff is lost in space

So to be clear you are saying that Richard Lee will be the only one allowed to grow recreational Cannabis for resale? Even in Oakland today there are many other medical Cannabis producers besides Richard, wise up, your fears are affecting your judgement. You are the one truly lost in space.
What is your plan to stop the over 800,000 arrests? Any plan at all, or are you to busy wringing your hands over the Tax and Regulate bill to have any plan to stop the Cannabis arrests? Typical.....
Wait until Richard has to compete with big agriculture and big biz, you have no concept of the real costs to produce Cannabis, and growing under lights, like Richard does, will be history when real agriculture starts growing Cannabis on a commercial level in the central valley.
I hate to think so but maybe you and the other NO's are just ignorant and blind, I am starting to think so...

-SamS

 

[jescowhite]

Wait until Richard has to compete with big agriculture and big biz, you have no concept of the real costs to produce Cannabis, and growing under lights, like Richard does, will be history when real agriculture starts growing Cannabis on a commercial level in the central valley.
I hate to think so but maybe you and the other NO's are just ignorant and blind, I am starting to think so...

-SamS

This exactly what I don't want! This will drive every mom & pop out of business. What's your stake in this Sam, already stashed enough away?

 

[cpower]

lol man ur the biggest nut job in here.yes he will be the only person to get the recreational permit.you are all over trhe place this bill in no way will stop 800,000 people from going to jail and if you thank so plez tell me HOW. we are years and years aways from big ag doing anything to grow mass pot so get over ur idea that this is anything but money.read the bill tell me how it helps any1.GET OFF THIS BILLS NUTTS ITS NOT A GOOD BILL IT HELPS ONLY RICH PEOPLE PS PLEZ TAKE Richard LEES NUTTS OUT UR MOUTH

 

[cpower]

Hash Zeppelin....IM WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ITS JUST BS TO THANK A SHITTY BILL LIKE THIS IS NOT FOR MONEY JUST CALL IT WHAT IT IS AND DONT FAKE THE FUNK DONT LIE TO PEOPLE ...MONEY!!!!

 

[Travieso]

SAM are you even from Cali?

 

[SmilinBob]

First of all I don't live in California so I didn't vote on your poll SamS.

The people voting yes, thank you. You see the bigger picture. That in the world today you have to make compromises to get what you want.

People voting no are doing so for a couple of reason, from what I've read.

They don't want big biz to grow cannabis. Get your head into reality. Think about this country as a whole. If it's ever legal for you to grow it then it will have to be legal for them too.

People say they want to be able to grow as much as they want whenever/where ever/ etc. Everyone wants that!! In this country we are way past doing what we want. Getting our freedom back is a bigger issue than cannabis legalization, and it shouldn't be thrown into the mix in this issue. That is a another issue all in itself, and all it is going to do is help reverse the cannabis legalization that is moving across our country.

Some people say it will make things worse. How? Please explain!

People say big business will put mom and pop out of business. Some people will lose their pot growing business due to bigger companies without a doubt. They will survive. Hell, get a real job, maybe one of the thousands legalization will bring to the table.

Legalization will bring negatives with it as well as positives. But if you believe that the negatives outweigh the positives then you have really no heart in helping this country as a whole, and all the people who suffer everyday because cannabis is illegal.

(Off the top of my head)
Positives of legalization:
Less violence/killing related to the high prices(illegality) of marijuana.
Decrease in people going to jail for marijuana.
Increase tax revenue for our states.
More money stays in this country, instead of to drug cartels to fund terrorists.
Increase in legal marijuana businesses which means more jobs for our citizens.
Decrease in your tax dollars get invested into shutting you down.
Decrease in tax dollars to house marijuana related 'criminals'.
Increase tax dollars for schools, police, roads, etc.
Less focus on marijuana means more focus on hard drugs/real criminals.

Negatives:
Big biz taking away from family businesses.
Regulations.



I tried real hard to think of some negatives. If you can think of some negatives that will outweigh the positives then PLEASE let us know..

Edit
--
Stop with the childish remarks and name calling. Makes your look silly, and doesn't help your side of the argument(discussion) one bit. Present your opinions, and facts. Those are the things that help you get what you want. Wether it be legalization or not.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

First of all I don't live in California so I didn't vote on your poll SamS.

The people voting yes, thank you. You see the bigger picture. That in the world today you have to make compromises to get what you want.

People voting no are doing so for a couple of reason, from what I've read.

They don't want big biz to grow cannabis. Get your head into reality. Think about this country as a whole. If it's ever legal for you to grow it then it will have to be legal for them too.

People say they want to be able to grow as much as they want whenever/where ever/ etc. Everyone wants that!! In this country we are way past doing what we want. Getting our freedom back is a bigger issue than cannabis legalization, and it shouldn't be thrown into the mix in this issue. That is a another issue all in itself, and all it is going to do is help reverse the cannabis legalization that is moving across our country.

Some people say it will make things worse. How? Please explain!

People say big business will put mom and pop out of business. Some people will lose their pot growing business due to bigger companies without a doubt. They will survive. Hell, get a real job, maybe one of the thousands legalization will bring to the table.

Legalization will bring negatives with it as well as positives. But if you believe that the negatives outweigh the positives then you have really no heart in helping this country as a whole, and all the people who suffer everyday because cannabis is illegal.

(Off the top of my head)
Positives of legalization:
Less violence/killing related to the high prices(illegality) of marijuana.
Decrease in people going to jail for marijuana.
Increase tax revenue for our states.
More money stays in this country, instead of to drug cartels to fund terrorists.
Increase in legal marijuana businesses which means more jobs for our citizens.
Decrease in your tax dollars get invested into shutting you down.
Decrease in tax dollars to house marijuana related 'criminals'.
Increase tax dollars for schools, police, roads, etc.
Less focus on marijuana means more focus on hard drugs/real criminals.

Negatives:
Big biz taking away from family businesses.
Regulations.



I tried real hard to think of some negatives. If you can think of some negatives that will outweigh the positives then PLEASE let us know..

Edit
--
Stop with the childish remarks and name calling. Makes your look silly, and doesn't help your side of the argument(discussion) one bit. Present your opinions, and facts. Those are the things that help you get what you want. Wether it be legalization or not.

I dont think you are really seeing the big picture. The job Market here is toast. The jobs growing weed for Philip Morris will most likely be made up of migrant immigrants not us degreed techys. The only way many people are making a living is to grow excess weed. This economy is a result of the politicians greed. Now they want the only industry holding up many thousands of peoples lives. I just love that "go get a real job" comment. What an insensitive comment. I know so many people here losing everything because there are not enough real jobs. You ever look for a job in a 17% unemployement atmosphere? No, Thats what I thought. Thats what the rate is in my county. I have been looking for 2 years and I have a solid resume. Its not just me, loads of peeps are in the same boat. So NO I am not for turning over my favorite industry to big biz and the government.

By the way, What a bunch of bullshit these continuing comments about 80K people arrested in cali for weed. They wrote over 60K 100 buck misdemeaner tickets here in 2009. Like a J-walking ticket. The remaining 20% that DID go to jail, still will under the proposed legislation. So I cant support putting all the small guys all the way out on the street in favor of the big guys making a ton of money and the gov taking over.

 

[SmilinBob]

You ever look for a job in a 17% unemployement atmosphere? No, Thats what I thought.

By the way, What a bunch of bullshit these continuing comments about 80K people arrested in cali for weed.

Yea, I have. I'm unemployed right now. It's your own fault for wasting 2 years looking for a job. You could have went back to school. That's what I'm doing. It doesn't take me 2 years of sitting on my ass to realize that. This isn't about you and me.

This bill will effect California but it will effect the country as a whole. I think people in California can't see far enough to realize just what an opportunity they have here.

This economy is a result of the politicians greed. Now they want the only industry holding up many thousands of peoples lives.

Thousand of people will become 'jobless' because of this bill.. ok. Hundreds of thousands go to jail every year!

If you grow pot and sell it for a living then you are lazy. I have no problem with people who grow and sell as a form of supplemental income.

Start a real business. YOU can be the one that creates jobs. Instead of sitting around and waiting for something to happen like you have for the last 2 years.

Ya'll keep saying Cali this Cali that. This is bigger than you and me. Think of this country as a whole. Until you do that, and see how many people are being punished all over this country. How many people are being kidnapped,killed, etc because of the illegality of cannabis. You are to narrow minded to see that in order to help the majority the minority will have to comprise. Then you are no help to the legalization movement in this country.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

LOL! Well I hope you find a job soon.
If other states want to legalize and tax they should go ahead and do it.
I dont give a shit that you want us to carry your water.
Go back to school? Really? And what industry is hiring once I graduate.. (again)? Dude, there are no industries hiring recently graduated 50+ year old men. I have a solid education and almost 30 years experience in a field that crosses over many industries. I have applied for over a thousand jobs, written several hundred custom cover letters. I possess letters of recomendation from director level mentors from 2 fortune 500 companies and have litterally thousands of contacts and many good friends in the industry I was in. I have networked my ass off. Problem being nobody is hiring. Small biz cant grow and big biz is frozen solid for hiring. I have a couple leads that may pan out doing labor at a low payscale so Ill probably be "working" soon. In 2 years I have had 4 interviews. The last one the guy told me he had 400 resumes from 1 ad and did 12 phone inetrviews then 6face to face. So I was in the top 6 of 400 but still no job.

 

[igrowone]

we're having rough times all over the country, it does suck, no question
but thinking large business will swoop in because of this bill seems a stretch
DEA is alive and well, nothing big is going to be allowed as long as they have federal law(and funding) on their side, no way in hell, not for a while anyways
and that is what will give the small operator a golden age of growing, for a while, not forever
federal action will determine when the 'big business age' of weed will arrive, and that's still a ways out there