Why is medical marijuana so expensive?

[Hydrosun]

Capitalism is allowed to happen for certain sectors of industry but when it come to things like health care then society as a whole needs to compromise so that EVERYONE can be entiltled to health care.

Not everything should be capitalistic. There are certain things like health care that are more important then things like profit.

Canada has better health care then the US and they are more similar to Russia then the US so something must be working right.

you are just wrong CAPITALISM is natural law just like gravity, your collectivism is at the point of a gun. I am NOT entitled to heathcare; if I were I could prove my medical need for 4oz of Purple Kush and 1 keg of Stone IPA and force YOU at the point of a gun to tend my plants and brewery.

If you are entitled to ANYTHING just tell me who is OBLIGATED to give it to you? Do I need to bare a son and enslave him producing for your ENTITLED health care?

There are NO POSITIVE RIGHTS.

I do NOT have a right to a HOUSE
I do NOT have a right to a HI SPEED INTERNET
I do NOT have a right to an EDUCATION
I do NOT have a right to Medical Marijuana
I do NOT have a right to amazing Craft Beer
I do NOT have a right to FOOD

OR FUCKING HEALTH CARE. If I want any of this shit I better get off my ass or pray to god that my FAMILY will provide, because my neighbor has no DUTY to support my delusional ENTITLEMENT.

Peace

 

[Juice_Box]

well put hydrosun

.5 GPW isn't bad at all. It's better than average for dry weed......

JJ you misunderstood what he said. but maybe you could rephrase that in gpw's hydrosun

 

[BIOJenn]

My suggestion is to start teaching some of these patients to grow their own. I know some of them probably are physically unable, but with the help of a family member they might be able to succeed in doing it.

I'm sure it's next thing to impossible with the street price of bud to find a caregiver that's actually going to abide by the rules and turn the bud over to the patient at a reasonable cost. It sounds like a lot of so called "caregivers" are simply using the patient as a cover for them to sell the bud commercially or back to them for commercial prices....

What the hell does being logged into ICmag got to do with growing weed for someone as a caregiver?

And I guess I shouldn't have said 5 min a day. It takes me five minutes to water the plants and then I don't look at them again for 3 days. That's what timers are for.

I've grown this wonderful plant for 30 years now and I get sick of listening to people say how it takes hrs a day to grow great bud. As I said, I go days without looking at them. You don't need to sit there and stare at them to make them grow. I know my rooms, and I know what the temps are going to be with the lights on, and with them off.

Why do so many people say that it takes a great deal of time to grow quality bud? It doesn't.......

I have no problem with a commercial grower charging a good dollar for his product. He's chancing his freedom and his life. But lets not confuse commercial growing to being a caregiver.

Again, a care giver is someone who enters into an agreement with a medically needy person to grow herb for that person and to be compensated for the TIME and EXPENSES he has into the grow. It's also legal in the state they are growing in, so unless your growing 100 plants, your freedom isn't in jeopardy. But caregivers now want the weed to be worth what it is on the street. If you want to sell commercially, so be it.....

ur on point^
if i sign a caregiver to grow for me he should be more then happy to even be growing at all and should kick alittle back to the patient. here in colorado if their isnt any patients their are NO caregivers..us patients are the only reason caregivers can even grow or sprout a seed. how about we take away the whole caregiver thing and only allow patients to grow,smoke,sell etc.

 

[Dankblueberries]

you are just wrong CAPITALISM is natural law just like gravity, your collectivism is at the point of a gun. I am NOT entitled to heathcare; if I were I could prove my medical need for 4oz of Purple Kush and 1 keg of Stone IPA and force YOU at the point of a gun to tend my plants and brewery.

If you are entitled to ANYTHING just tell me who is OBLIGATED to give it to you? Do I need to bare a son and enslave him producing for your ENTITLED health care?

There are NO POSITIVE RIGHTS.

I do NOT have a right to a HOUSE
I do NOT have a right to a HI SPEED INTERNET
I do NOT have a right to an EDUCATION
I do NOT have a right to Medical Marijuana
I do NOT have a right to amazing Craft Beer
I do NOT have a right to FOOD

OR FUCKING HEALTH CARE. If I want any of this shit I better get off my ass or pray to god that my FAMILY will provide, because my neighbor has no DUTY to support my delusional ENTITLEMENT.

Peace

Fuck yeah! I'd give you a point, but I already did!

 

[Dankblueberries]

ur on point^
if i sign a caregiver to grow for me he should be more then happy to even be growing at all and should kick alittle back to the patient. here in colorado if their isnt any patients their are NO caregivers..us patients are the only reason caregivers can even grow or sprout a seed. how about we take away the whole caregiver thing and only allow patients to grow,smoke,sell etc.

This has entitlement all over it.

There are any range of agreements caregivers and patients can come up with, to make both sides win. If you expect all that from your caregiver, find one that is willing to do that agreement. If you can't find one, that's because it is not beneficial for both parties.

 

[Hydrosun]

You could set up one 600 watt digital in their spare bedrrom and grow them all the weed they would need, lol. Do you understand now?

.5 GPW isn't bad at all. It's better than average for dry weed. Make sure to take the time when they are young to let them dry out completely so the roots have to grow to look for water. The better the root system the more weight you are going to get off a plant. Theres plenty of time to over water them when they get older....

I asked about G per SQUARE FOOT PER DAY. I did not mention Watt, but we both know what is good and not. I asked for help to improve.

Anyone could set up 600w or not; I am arguing for freedom. If a person choses to be a caregiver for whatever reason, they are still violating FEDERAL law. The Doctor who recommends MMJ is still violation of federal law by prescribing a SCHEDULE I narcotic.

I go back to my first post, why in a world with the pharma companies running countries would anyone say a bad word about ANY grower of MMJ?

Peace,

 

[Blue Dot]

The Doctor who recommends MMJ is still violation of federal law by prescribing a SCHEDULE I narcotic.

incorrect. That was a pretty big SCOTUS case and since doctors are technically not PRESCRIBING MJ they have the first amendment right to reccomend any treatment they deem necessary.

 

[Hammerhead]

I was just about to say that ^^

 

[southpaw]

It's clear to me that we have essentially good people, and maybe even more importantly, great lovers of the plant, on both sides of this one. Gray area legality is responsible for causing this rift more than either idealized "greed" or idealized "entitlement".

I just hope that most "caregivers" still find a way, in their own way, to both care and give. The small steps that have been taken towards decriminalization were grounded in the morality of providing medicine to the sick. Time goes by and situations change, but the farther people move from that ideal towards the recreational market, with its recreational prices, the greater this divide will become.

Markets are not intrinsically evil, but by nature they draw "together" people with vastly disparate goals and backgrounds. I have my doubts whether the medical movement can withstand this kind of torsion in America's current legal environment. I will be very interested to see how the co-op idea develops as a counterpoint to the demands of the recreational market and the prices they "justify".

 

[Owl Mirror]

Hey Rich can you please point out where in the law that it states patient OWNS each plant grown under their name.

WHO OWNS THE MARIJUANA? per Greg Schmid, an MMMA General Counsel

I just had an interesting conversation with Greg Schmid, an MMMA General Counsel and top notch attorney in Saginaw. He pointed out to me that while caregivers are allowed to cultivate the medical marijuana, the plants themselves belong to the patient. Now if you are both a Qualified Patient and Patient Caregiver, you own your plants but simply manage the plants of any other patients you service.

Who is Greg Schmid ?
http://www.qualifyingpatient.com/
http://www.review-mag.com/archive/470-479/470/Nschmid.htm
http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/node/3555
http://www.schmidlaw.com/

Proposal 1, The Michigan Medical Marijuana Act ~ Author: Robert E. Martin & Greg Schmid

Implementation of Michigan's Medical Marijuana Law By Robert E. Martin & Greg Schmid

Saginaw attorney Greg Schmid is at it again. Last year, his all-volunteer effort to legalize marijuana through Michigan's initiative and referendum process never made it to the ballot, falling well short of the 302,000 voter signatures to qualify. But Schmid is back, and this time he thinks he can pull it off.

I can only assume the author of Michigan's LAW knows what he is talking about regarding this issue.
You might know more than he does.
I'm just going by the person who's efforts brought about our Medical Marijuana Law here in Michigan.

 

[Blue Dot]

WHO OWNS THE MARIJUANA? per Greg Schmid, an MMMA General Counsel

I just had an interesting conversation with Greg Schmid, an MMMA General Counsel and top notch attorney in Saginaw. He pointed out to me that while caregivers are allowed to cultivate the medical marijuana, the plants themselves belong to the patient. Now if you are both a Qualified Patient and Patient Caregiver, you own your plants but simply manage the plants of any other patients you service.

Who is Greg Schmid ?
http://www.qualifyingpatient.com/
http://www.review-mag.com/archive/470-479/470/Nschmid.htm
http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/node/3555
http://www.schmidlaw.com/

Proposal 1, The Michigan Medical Marijuana Act ~ Author: Robert E. Martin & Greg Schmid

Implementation of Michigan's Medical Marijuana Law By Robert E. Martin & Greg Schmid



I can only assume the author of Michigan's LAW knows what he is talking about regarding this issue.
You might know more than he does.
I'm just going by the person who's efforts brought about our Medical Marijuana Law here in Michigan.

Wow, this is how it should be in cali. Wish we had thought of that first.

 

[Hydrosun]

incorrect. That was a pretty big SCOTUS case and since doctors are technically not PRESCRIBING MJ they have the first amendment right to reccomend any treatment they deem necessary.

case site please you know lexus nexus or westlaw bs.

I agree that any and all medical professionals and others are free to express their opinion, but I just dont agree that 1984 has rolled over on this point.


Peace,

 

[Blue Dot]

http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?list=type&type=34

Conant v. McCaffrey
(2000): The government was enjoined by the U.S. District Court in San Francisco from punishing physicians or taking their DEA licenses for recommending medical use of cannabis. The ruling states that physicians have a First Amendment right to make recommendations, but may not aid or abet patients in actually obtaining marijuana.


Conant v. Walters
(2002): The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that the federal government could not punish, or threaten to punish, a doctor merely for telling a patient that his or her use of marijuana for medical use is proper. However, because it remains illegal for a doctor to "aid and abet" a patient to obtain marijuana or conspire with him or her to do so, the court drew the line between protected First Amendment speech and prohibited conduct as follows -- A physician may discuss the pros and cons of medical marijuana with his or her patient, and issue a written or oral recommendation to use marijuana within a bona fide doctor-patient relationship without fear of legal reprisal. And this is so, regardless of whether s/he anticipates that the patient will, in turn, use this recommendation to obtain marijuana in violation of federal law. On the other hand, the physician may not actually prescribe or dispense marijuana to a patient, or recommend it with the specific intent that the patient will use the recommendation like a prescription to obtain marijuana. There have been no such criminal or administrative proceedings against doctors to date.

Maybe not SCOTUS but close enough for gov work.

 

[danut]

I can only assume the author of Michigan's LAW knows what he is talking about regarding this issue.
You might know more than he does.
I'm just going by the person who's efforts brought about our Medical Marijuana Law here in Michigan.

Greg Schmidt is a great attorney. But he didn't have anything to do with writing prop 1 in Michigan.

Greg wrote the previous two attempts at getting the law changed.

The folks at MPP were the ones that wrote the current law.

Greg presents a series of logic that, he believes, concludes that the patient owns the plant.

This is not the same as the law explicitly stating the patient owns the plant.

In fact, if a patient has a caregiver, the patients ID card says right on it they can NOT have plants.

I asked you to show where it says directly in the law itself. You are unable to do so because your statement is in error. Such a clear statement does not exist in the law.

When a caregiver owns plants, they are owned for the benefit of the patient. That doesn't instantly transfer ownership.

I've read plots by patients where they intend to rip off a caregiver by using that logic. Con the caregiver into raising up plants and then just before harvest they would demand their plants from the caregiver. Expecting to have the ability to demand the plants free of charge.

 

[JJScorpio]

It would seem, unless the caregiver is also a med patient, that by law they can't have ownership of the plants. So answer me how it would be legal for the caregiver to have ownership by law?

I think we're getting way off track here anyways. But to finish this discussion I would have to assume that the caregiver and patient would have had to enter into some type of an agreement prior to the grow beginning.

My initial question on why MM was so expensive was regarding the 20 to 30 a G and 60 dollar eighths that dispensories are charging in Cali. I didn't know caregivers in other States were also getting caught up in the street price of bud.

 

[danut]

It would seem, unless the caregiver is also a med patient, that by law they can't have ownership of the plants. So answer me how it would be legal for the caregiver to have ownership by law?

I think we're getting way off track here anyways. But to finish this discussion I would have to assume that the caregiver and patient would have had to enter into some type of an agreement prior to the grow beginning.

My initial question on why MM was so expensive was regarding the 20 to 30 a G and 60 dollar eighths that dispensories are charging in Cali. I didn't know caregivers in other States were also getting caught up in the street price of bud.

The "problem" only exists in places where the laws of supply and demand still exist.

I can't be a caregiver in MI because of a felony conviction. But my wife can be.

I interview prospective patients for her.

People that start out asking who owns the plants are people that we refuse to work with. They have started out showing that we could expect to have problems with them.

Some patients have need for larger supply than others do. If a cancer patient wants to try the Simpson process, they require one pound of material. Someone else may only require a quarter ounce per month.

Some folks can afford to pay for their medicine. For others it is very difficult to afford. Yet, for them, this medicine produces much better results than anything our health system can provide.

Most of the caregivers in MI do not charge street prices. Those that do find themselves without patients to grow for.

Some caregivers charge according to a sliding scale. This becomes a problem when those that can afford it expect to pay the same price as someone on SSI would pay. Then the whole operation sinks. It can't function if you can't pay the bills.

There is an expectation, by patients, that their new caregiver will have medicine from the very moment they have reached an agreement with a caregiver. Where does that medicine come from? Did the patient own those plants? Of course not. How did the caregiver get it? They bought it off the black market to be able to provide to the patient.

I never talk about the price that patients pay. Doing so would undermine relationships that other patients have with their caregivers.

The relationship between these two parties is THEIR agreement.

 

[Owl Mirror]

The "problem" only exists in places where the laws of supply and demand still exist.

I can't be a caregiver in MI because of a felony conviction. But my wife can be.

I interview prospective patients for her.

People that start out asking who owns the plants are people that we refuse to work with. They have started out showing that we could expect to have problems with them.

Some patients have need for larger supply than others do. If a cancer patient wants to try the Simpson process, they require one pound of material. Someone else may only require a quarter ounce per month.

Some folks can afford to pay for their medicine. For others it is very difficult to afford. Yet, for them, this medicine produces much better results than anything our health system can provide.

Most of the caregivers in MI do not charge street prices. Those that do find themselves without patients to grow for.

Some caregivers charge according to a sliding scale. This becomes a problem when those that can afford it expect to pay the same price as someone on SSI would pay. Then the whole operation sinks. It can't function if you can't pay the bills.

There is an expectation, by patients, that their new caregiver will have medicine from the very moment they have reached an agreement with a caregiver. Where does that medicine come from? Did the patient own those plants? Of course not. How did the caregiver get it? They bought it off the black market to be able to provide to the patient.

I never talk about the price that patients pay. Doing so would undermine relationships that other patients have with their caregivers.

The relationship between these two parties is THEIR agreement.

I wasn't aware Michigan's Law allowed for sub-contracting out the growing of marijuana under a caregiver agreement. How does that work ? I didn't realize the caregiver role could be a joint effort with those who are strictly forbidden to participate. Legally, YOU are not to have anything to do with the plants or final product, right ?

 

[Marywanna]

Caregivers in Michigan think that 200.00 is some kind of bargain price. So you grow it for pts that already spent 150.00 to go to a Dr and get approved,then another 100.00 to the State for your card. Many ,if not most, of these pts are on disability or SSI.....and cannot afford this. So much for compassionate CGs. Nobody expects meds for free. But why gouge the very people that need it the most? BTW legal card holders can purchase the meds from wherever they want to. They are legal but the seller unless they are a CG,is not.CGs pay nothing to the state to grow,they just find pts,up to 4,and are able to grow 12 plants per pt. JJ you sound like a responsible CG to me.

 

[JJScorpio]

The "problem" only exists in places where the laws of supply and demand still exist.

I can't be a caregiver in MI because of a felony conviction. But my wife can be.

I interview prospective patients for her.

People that start out asking who owns the plants are people that we refuse to work with. They have started out showing that we could expect to have problems with them.

Some patients have need for larger supply than others do. If a cancer patient wants to try the Simpson process, they require one pound of material. Someone else may only require a quarter ounce per month.

Some folks can afford to pay for their medicine. For others it is very difficult to afford. Yet, for them, this medicine produces much better results than anything our health system can provide.

Most of the caregivers in MI do not charge street prices. Those that do find themselves without patients to grow for.

Some caregivers charge according to a sliding scale. This becomes a problem when those that can afford it expect to pay the same price as someone on SSI would pay. Then the whole operation sinks. It can't function if you can't pay the bills.

There is an expectation, by patients, that their new caregiver will have medicine from the very moment they have reached an agreement with a caregiver. Where does that medicine come from? Did the patient own those plants? Of course not. How did the caregiver get it? They bought it off the black market to be able to provide to the patient.

I never talk about the price that patients pay. Doing so would undermine relationships that other patients have with their caregivers.

The relationship between these two parties is THEIR agreement.

Asking "who owns the plants seems like a very legitimate question to me. I don't see the problem.

I think if you have a Felony conviction you're not supposed to be involved in the process. If someone were to complain your wife might lose her right to do this.... It would appear that you are doing it through her name....

 

[JJScorpio]

Caregivers in Michigan think that 200.00 is some kind of bargain price. So you grow it for pts that already spent 150.00 to go to a Dr and get approved,then another 100.00 to the State for your card. Many ,if not most, of these pts are on disability or SSI.....and cannot afford this. So much for compassionate CGs. Nobody expects meds for free. But why gouge the very people that need it the most? BTW legal card holders can purchase the meds from wherever they want to. They are legal but the seller unless they are a CG,is not.CGs pay nothing to the state to grow,they just find pts,up to 4,and are able to grow 12 plants per pt. JJ you sound like a responsible CG to me.

It sounds to me that most CG are circumventing the Law here. I think the most responsible and legal way for this to be accomplished would be for the patient and CG to agree on a price per grow. Be it 5 ounces or 2 pounds, the CG would be paid for the grow and the patient would own the plants. I don't see it being legal for the CG to hold the finished product and sell ounces to the patient. That's where the commercial aspect again gets mixed up with the CG aspect....