Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[kmk420kali]

I know that certain counties have moratoria on dispensaries and collectives.

I know that is not against the law but it isn't really in line with what people voted for.

That is because of the Legal Gray Area that surrounds D's--
Prop 19 takes most of the gray out--

I am not sure how things will go from here.

Just know that it isn't truly in our hands at a certain level.

Things would be so much easier if we could tell the future!! lol
But yeah...just like the rest of Life...it will be fun to see how it ends up, huh??

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Well I must admit that it's an interesting time.

I'd like nothing more than to see our movement push ahead... as long as we're not taken advantage of.

 

[kmk420kali]

The possession limits and grow space arn't really the thing. I have a much bigger problem with counties being the ones to regulate sales. I would have rather seen sales banned outright unless the state government came up with something. With counties in charge, it'll be a hodge podge of different rules for different people, and likely who will be able to legally grow for commercial purposes under prop 19 will be limited. There is still 215 as lesser limits, but I just don't like the uncertainly of prop 19.

Yes, I see some problems that are surely to arise because of this...but on that, lemme quote myself--lol

Things would be so much easier if we could tell the future!! lol
But yeah...just like the rest of Life...it will be fun to see how it ends up, huh??

I still don't see that as a reason not to support tho...the chances of the "Perfect" Prop ever coming around, and still have a chance at getting voted in, are pretty slim--

 

[vta]

The possession limits and grow space arn't really the thing. I have a much bigger problem with counties being the ones to regulate sales. I would have rather seen sales banned outright unless the state government came up with something. With counties in charge, it'll be a hodge podge of different rules for different people, and likely who will be able to legally grow for commercial purposes under prop 19 will be limited. There is still 215 as lesser limits, but I just don't like the uncertainly of prop 19.

If 19(or any prop for that matter) was designed with the State regulating the sale, that would put it in direct conflict with Fed law. Resulting with it being held up in the courts before it even got started. This version will be in effect Nov 3. The authors of 19 did their homework...this law does not make the State 'regulate' jack, it simply 'allows' 'individual' governments to regulate. The important point here is the since the State is 'not' regulating but rather passing the buck to locals, the law has merit and is lawful. They also thought about what your saying so they included language that allows the State to regulate in the future...but only to expand or increase and not they would not be able to decrease any of the base minimums. That right there can only give us more rights...not less.

Also if you were to expand your thoughts on the matter you would see a bright side to the localization of regulation. Once 19 passes and a multitude of cities setup regulation schemes, time will tell what works and what doesn't. One restrictive law covering everyone and everyplace would have only one result, whatever that would be. But that result would be shown to the world what 'legalization' does. If we have a hundred different 'legal' models to look at and observe, the chances for finding a system that works is increased ten fold. Chances of convincing other States and Countries that legalization works, would be easier as we would have the perfect 'laboratory' to test out different approaches.

 

[dagnabit]

The possession limits and grow space arn't really the thing. I have a much bigger problem with counties being the ones to regulate sales. I would have rather seen sales banned outright unless the state government came up with something. With counties in charge, it'll be a hodge podge of different rules for different people, and likely who will be able to legally grow for commercial purposes under prop 19 will be limited. There is still 215 as lesser limits, but I just don't like the uncertainly of prop 19.

id much rather have control at the local level!!!

local/county millages pass by 10's of votes sometimes!!!! its HUGELY easier to effect change at a county level. dont like how your city/county handle commercial sales? change it! it sure a hell of a lot better than a one size fits all approach you suggest.

 

[CaptainTrips]

It might be easier, that doesn't mean its easy. Just because I don't like the way my county does things, doesn't mean I am going to change things. If it was that easy MMJ dispensarys wouldn't be banned up and down the state.

 

[CaptainTrips]

If 19(or any prop for that matter) was designed with the State regulating the sale, that would put it in direct conflict with Fed law. Resulting with it being held up in the courts before it even got started.

Umm, I don't think so... State law and fed law does not have to conform. If the feds want weed illegal, and a certain state doesn't. It would then be up to the fed to enforce their law. Prop 215 is in direct violation of fed law.

This version will be in effect Nov 3.

Putting the cart before the horse, arn't ya?

 

[dagnabit]

It might be easier, that doesn't mean its easy. Just because I don't like the way my county does things, doesn't mean I am going to change things. If it was that easy MMJ dispensarys wouldn't be banned up and down the state.

complacency is your enemy....
have you run for city council? county commission?how many times have you visited your local county commissioner? have you "contributed" to the right campaigns? how many signatures have you collected on your petitions? think about renting a bus and doing a registration drive. if you gathered every "stoner" you could get your mits on and took them to the polls..... change would happen but the apathetic attitude is a pathetic one (did you see my pun!!!)

Just because I don't like the way my county does things, doesn't mean I am going to change things.

as long as you say that you never will!

but if you think it's impossible at the local level how the flying fuck do you advocate uniform state control?!?!? :huh:

 

[vta]

Umm, I don't think so... State law and fed law does not have to conform. If the feds want weed illegal, and a certain state doesn't. It would then be up to the fed to enforce their law. Prop 215 is in direct violation of fed law.

Show me in 215 where it entitles the State to regulate the sale and distribution. The only thing 215 and 19 have in common is cannabis, otherwise they are 2 totally different laws. Apples and oranges. All 215 does is entitle someone a defense in court...it doesn't even protect you from arrest. And it does not conflict with Federal law. Educate yourself. I'm not sitting here blowing smoke up your ass.

Putting the cart before the horse, arn't ya?

Yeah- you fuking bet I am. I already have a business plan and investors. I won't be left behind in this rush...hast makes wast

 

[Hammerhead]

ya I gotta make sure I get some of your Stock VTA

 

[CaptainTrips]

Show me in 215 where it entitles the State to regulate the sale and distribution.

It doesn't. It's still a violation of federal law. It allows California citizens to legally grow Marijuana for medical purposes. A violation of federal law. The basis for SB/SD counties to fight prop 215. They lost, but not because its not a violation of federal law, but because federal law is not there concern.

 

[vta]

A violation of federal law. The basis for SB/SD counties to fight prop 215. They lost, but not because its not a violation of federal law, but because federal law is not there concern.

They had no basis..that is why they lost.

 

[dagnabit]

Originally Posted by CaptainTrips
Umm, I don't think so... State law and fed law does not have to conform. If the feds want weed illegal, and a certain state doesn't. It would then be up to the fed to enforce their law. Prop 215 is in direct violation of fed law.

ummm i dont think so!

originally posted looooooong before al gore invented the net:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

where does the constitution delegate the power to prohibit a plant?

this will bring about the first SCOTUS challenge on a recreational 10th amendment basis!
and R.Lee is the poor fuck who is going to jail then all the way up the ladder! Lee and the state of california VS. U.S.A. et-all.

he knows it.
we know it.
they know it.
people act like he is going to "lock down" california.. the only "lock down" for R.Lee is "lock down" in fed planes for two weeks w/o a shower(how they did my brother) till he hits a detention facility (where he gets his first lawyer meeting) then bail and MILLIONS taking this all the way to SCOTUS for US!!!!!!! and these stupid knucklehead pissant smalltime growers are screaming NOOOO R.Lee is evil..

no you are...

im sooo sick of this shit!
not a single ANTI is a true mover and shaker..fucking dime bag haters scared they cant sell their fucking 1/8ths...

fuck you.

either you need a forklift or you are a joke..

 

[Hydrosun]

ummm i dont think so!



where does the constitution delegate the power to prohibit a plant?

this will bring about the first SCOTUS challenge on a recreational 10th amendment basis!
and R.Lee is the poor fuck who is going to jail then all the way up the ladder! Lee and the state of california VS. U.S.A. et-all.

he knows it.
we know it.
they know it.
people act like he is going to "lock down" california.. the only "lock down" for R.Lee is "lock down" in fed planes for two weeks w/o a shower(how they did my brother) till he hits a detention facility (where he gets his first lawyer meeting) then bail and MILLIONS taking this all the way to SCOTUS for US!!!!!!! and these stupid knucklehead pissant smalltime growers are screaming NOOOO R.Lee is evil..

no you are...

im sooo sick of this shit!
not a single ANTI is a true mover and shaker..fucking dime bag haters scared they cant sell their fucking 1/8ths...

fuck you.

either you need a forklift or you are a joke..

Quit with the name calling and at least try to carry on an intelligent conversation.

If you don't believe that 215 and all other med laws conflict with the FEDERAL Schedule I laws, then WHY would the DEA raid MMJ locations in the med states?

I can link you to ICmag articles of raids in OR, CA, HI, etc.

The fact that you get so vehement while making misstatements is very perplexing. I think you are doing more harm than good for your side.

Your thoughts that a SCOTUS challenge would work because of Prop 19, DESPITE the fact that SCOTUS has already spoken on CA215 stating in Raich v. Ashcroft (recaptioned Gonzales v. Raich [when John Ashcroft resigned and was replaced by Atty. Gen. Gonzales) that MMJ was ILLEGAL federally because the FEDS had the power to regulate INTERSTATE commerce.

SCOTUS determined that EVEN A PERSONAL garden by Ms. Raich was sufficient to eventually reach the stream of commerce and THEREFORE the FEDS could PROHIBIT IT.

This is crazy but conforms with the SCOTUS decision in Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942). Check this case out and you will see that the SOCIALIST SUPREME COURT determined that a farmer may NOT grow wheat to feed his OWN animals on his OWN land, if it was in an amount greater than the FEDERALLY IMPOSED LIMITS.

Yell and scream as much as you want about this proposition, but don't lie to this community and act as if you are an attorney with a key to over turning 68 years of Supreme Court precedents.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

The ignore function doesn't work when people quote posts...

I was beginning to think things were going decently civil.

 

[Hydrosun]

Sorry for rebroadcasting low-lights.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

It was a good post, save for the fuckfuckityfuckfucks.

I'm interested to see what happens in November.

It's kind of like looking at a car wreck as you drive by... morbid curiosity.

Who would be suprised if 19 passes and the DEA decides to pull California growers into prison one by one?

Mad? Sure!

Suprised? Not at all.

See... it seems ridiculous but we've seen worse.

Call it fear mongering if you like... I just wonder about possibilities.

 

[mullray]

Why do I get the feeling Prop 19 is here to replace Medical Marijuana laws? I know it is not supposed to but everyone I talk to blurs the line...

It may be a feeling bro but it aint factual. Call it paranoia I expect. Med Laws stand - Prop 19 is a different and seperate thing.

 

[mullray]

It was a good post, save for the fuckfuckityfuckfucks.

I'm interested to see what happens in November.

It's kind of like looking at a car wreck as you drive by... morbid curiosity.

Who would be suprised if 19 passes and the DEA decides to pull California growers into prison one by one?

Mad? Sure!

Suprised? Not at all.

See... it seems ridiculous but we've seen worse.

Call it fear mongering if you like... I just wonder about possibilities.

Sure - the DEA are going to be hell unhappy. The pricks are going to have to begin looking for new work if Prop 19 snowballs.

And yep R Lee wil be a major target so respect to him for having the stones with Prop 19.

 

[SacredTHCRitual]

Probably because you haven't read the proposition and instead rely on what people are telling you that may have an interest or motive into keep cannabis illegal.

For someone who's name is "sacred thc ritual" we'd think you would support the freedom of cannabis....

read my other posts and say that again...


I understand you have been fighting with others on the boards about this for some time now so let me just say swords down man..I'm not with the "anti 19" crowd nor do I want cannabis/canna people to stay illegal but I am skeptical and have honest questions...I don't own a clinic or sell to a clinic for profit

so please clear them up for us...

1. Will Prop 19 make it easier to phase out medical marijuana?

I feel everyone should be allowed to use cannabis completely free like if it were rosemary or parsley..With 19 being passed, are we going to see a distancing from cannabis being what it is, a medicine??? or at least in the general view of the public?? to equate it with alcohol and tobacco doesn't look like a medicine anymore...

If this law allows medical users to keep their rights and allows people without medical use to still use it then that's awesome I just wanted to clear up the obvious grey area here...

We are all gonna keep doing what we are doing...a push towards legalization and integration into society has my vote...

please keep good vibes on the ICmag, this is one of the few forums that still bring that vibe so keep that torch lit






It seems like it will have a definite effect...I don't own a clinic or sell to a clinic for profit