Structures of Fear, Anger, and Desire!

[spiralofeyes]

southflorida: By fundamentals I mean the actual challenges that I face. The problems the monkey,the machine,the THOU,in that art thou faces. I found myself stumbling on my philosophical ballast. Mentally I understand that observer and the observed are the same stuff,because observation springs equally from that which is observed and that which observes. But that realization in and of itself doesn't get me anywhere,unless I retire to a monastery or cave. Which was a real alternative at one point... I don't doubt that I'm the problem here,not the philosophy. But I have to deal with that problem. My wings were poorly engineered,and were dragging me down.So I ditched them,and settles for walking. Dig? I might try flying again at a later time. But right now,I'm quite content with the delusion I'm currently utilizing. Not attached to,mind you.Content with for the time being.I am no longer complety sure of ANYTHING at all. I operate with maybe logic. And that comes from my previous practices,for sure. So it wasn't all for naught,I guess

sso Bro,we are in agreement.Gotta take care of the beast,cause we ARE the beast(but not only the beast).I think I went wrong when I tried denying the beast. Gotta use it to get to know it. And a lot of my ambivalence for the subject these days,stems from that.
Philosophy is a thing for comfy chairs,full bellies and good company. Which is why I even engaged in conversing with you guys. Cuz your part of my worldwide circle of smoke buddies,and you seem like clever dudes. There are no Answers. but we sure as hell can get to know each other while we brandish our chosen facet of it.

 

[Fly by Night]

White and flabby is no way to live...this is wut I ponder homies! Borderline SBW

 

[spiralofeyes]

It's good to see you still don't take shit seriously,man.

All the peace

 

[southflorida]

White and flabby is no way to live...this is wut I ponder homies! Borderline SBW

View Image

fuck...now I've gotta get my ass off the couch and go stuff my face after seeing all that delicious grub

 

[sso]

oh ive been munching candy all along.

didnt actually get pissed earlier, just feel strongly about it, talking big like my wife says (oh she loves to talk big, right in my ear. )



hmm, hey , for anyone inclined to exercise without doing much, you can just flex your muscles, tense and untense them and stretch.

this keeps them pretty much in shape, even if you are mostly just lying on your ass.

5 min a day or whenever you remember it. (i usually dont bother with that long, but im probably a special case, didnt do shit, literally for 2 years, just lying in bed, depressed as fuck, then ran up a mountain with my bro and beat his ass (he´s working a very physical job and is all muscled.)

ok back to lethal weapon 1

 

[southflorida]

By fundamentals I mean the actual challenges that I face. The problems the monkey,the machine,the THOU,in that art thou faces. I found myself stumbling on my philosophical ballast. Mentally I understand that observer and the observed are the same stuff,because observation springs equally from that which is observed and that which observes. But that realization in and of itself doesn't get me anywhere,unless I retire to a monastery or cave. Which was a real alternative at one point... I don't doubt that I'm the problem here,not the philosophy. But I have to deal with that problem. My wings were poorly engineered,and were dragging me down.So I ditched them,and settles for walking. Dig? I might try flying again at a later time. But right now,I'm quite content with the delusion I'm currently utilizing. Not attached to,mind you.Content with for the time being.I am no longer complety sure of ANYTHING at all. I operate with maybe logic. And that comes from my previous practices,for sure. So it wasn't all for naught,I guess

we all do the best we can with what we've got in each present moment...for example...i'm lazy as fuck...and i do very little...lol...but it is not so much the doing that matters

...it is the being...what you are...not what you do!

what you do is a reflection of who you are...and in and of itself action and physical stuff matters very little...but don't tell anyone that I told you this, because otherwise they might turn into lazy-asses like me, and then who is going to do all the work in this world?

I'd suggest that when you have the time read the three posts in this thread that I wrote about happiness. It might help you in some way, or maybe confuse you even more...lol...your choice...here's the link

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=246092

either way, be happy, and do what you truly love, if you do the second, I'm sure you will have more of the first.

 

[southflorida]

lethal weapon 1 is a killer ass movie...actually they are all quite good, which is rare for sequals.

 

[southflorida]

Stephen Marley - Inna Di Red

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TU2G0x-mrM


I didn't get no sleep at all last night
My shoulders were as heavy as lead
I felt something was just not right
I had to roll a little spliff for my head
So I took a walk inside
Talked to I, I self
Trying to ease these pains of mine
Oh Jah give I strength

And if a egg, natty inna di red
And if a egg, natty inna di red
Rasta inna it, natty inna di red
And if a egg, natty inna di red

Yeah, yah yah
Yah, yah

Eh, Now I'm in a irie place
now I'm in a irie space
Now I man can I ditate
Free ourselves from all that hate
Now I'm in an irie state
Now I man can I ditate
Free ourselves from all that hate
Bless them with Jah love and grace

And if a egg, natty inna di red
And if a egg, natty inna di red
Rasta inna it, (egg), natty inna di red
And if a egg, natty inna di red

Yeah, yeah

Eh, I didn't get no sleep at all first night, no
My shoulders we as heavy as lead
I felt Something was just not right
Had to Roll a little zig for my head
Yeah
So I took a walk inside
talk to I, I self
Free I from this frame of mind
Oh Jah give I strength

And if a egg, natty inna di red
And if a egg, natty inna di red
Cmon man and if a (egg), natty inna di red
And if a egg, natty inna di red

Yeah, yah yah
Oh, yah, yah,yah, yah

None shall escape Jah judgment
Jah judgments gonna call on you
Red eye, red eye, red eye
Red eye, you're gonna turn to blue
None shall escape Jah judgment
Jah judgments gonna fall on you
Red eye, red eye, red eye
Red eye, you're gonna turn to blue

Yeah, yah, yah
Yah, uah
Yah, yah

Outro (Kids):
So when we call him Rastafari
what shall we contend with
Watch how weak heart tremble
Heathen nah like Jah name

 

[bombadil.360]

structure of hubris. another possible thread title, depending on your take and all

 

[southflorida]

structure of hubris. another possible thread title, depending on your take and all

how you've been bombadil?

you do know that what we see in the world is a reflection of our own beliefs and assumptions...in other words...interpretation...and the meaning provided by this interpretations is always based on the perspective of the mind doing the interpreting.

 

[bombadil.360]

hello southflorida,

I was trying to make a crack at the thread with my structure of hubris comment, dunno if it came out right

the world is as it is, regardless of one's interpretation or lack of; the world does not change according to one's beliefs. The truth is solid and unchanging, absolute, it has always been what it is. beliefs, interpretations, perceptions and all sorts and kinds of phenomena, do not affect the basic foundation of reality.

a good example would be that regardless of your beliefs or interpretations, you need to look after the well being of your biological organism; wether you like it or not... in the same vein, regardless of our beliefs and assumptions that may lead us to self-delude ourselves in all manners and ways, *we will remain bound to the inevitable fate which binds us all with no discrimination and which is called death.

there's no reflection of our interpretations that can make this truth of the world go away.

logically speaking, this whole 'the world is a reflection of our interpretations' is called solipsism, which is an inmature stand at best, and quite a self-damaging one at worst.

peace

 

[southflorida]

hello southflorida,

I was trying to make a crack at the thread with my structure of hubris comment, dunno if it came out right

depends on who was interpreting that comment, but for me personally, I had to look what that word (hubris) meant...

...and after looking it up, yes I thought it was quite funny

the world is as it is, regardless of one's interpretation or lack of; the world does not change according to one's beliefs. The truth is solid and unchanging, absolute, it has always been what it is. beliefs, interpretations, perceptions and all sorts and kinds of phenomena, do not affect the basic foundation of reality.

there's a difference (distinction) between "what is" and "what appears to be to us personally" - you seem to be saying that they are one and the same...and they are not.

as human beings we don't know "what is" and have no way of knowing, especially taking into account our limited sensing apparatus.

here's a quote from my post in this thread so that my lazy (hubris) ass doesn't have to write it all over

IN-DIRECT PERCEPTION:

All appearances of being real are derived from the interpreted perceptions that constitute our experience. All are dependent upon the limitations of the sensing apparatus and the limitations of the interpretation that we give to the data that our senses collect.

The filters placed between us and the un-experienceable reality lie beyond our perception in the non-physical, and they are what make our perceptions limited and in-direct. I have a thread about this in my profile, if this ever interest you.

Here is an example how our senses work.

We think we see an object, but what we actually perceive is a portion of the light energy that has interected with the object, not the object itself.

Next, we must interpret this received pattern of light data.

What we see is a function of the object, the attributes of the light that impinged on it, how that particular light interacted with that particular object, how the sensor (eye, optic nerve) interacted with the light coming coming from the object, how we generated and interpreted the resulting optic nerve data, and finally how we integrate this interpreted information with the rest of our experience and belief.

There are no less than five processes occuring between the object itself and our sense of reality of that object. Each process has its limitations, dependencies, random components, variations, and error sources.

Our reality is the result of these imperfect processes working and interacting together. All our other senses go through similarly complex processes. This is only the tip of the iceberg...so i would think twice about our reality being physical. Looks more like our reality is virtual and digital, at least that is my perspective, based on observing how our perceptions and sense apparatus works.

taking all this into account, my theory is that we are hallucinating 24/7/365

a good example would be that regardless of your beliefs or interpretations, you need to look after the well being of your biological organism; wether you like it or not... in the same vein, regardless of our beliefs and assumptions that may lead us to self-delude ourselves in all manners and ways, *we will remain bound to the inevitable fate which binds us all with no discrimination and which is called death.

there's no reflection of our interpretations that can make this truth of the world go away.

you seem to be 100% absolutely sure that what you perceive is "what is," that is not so, what you actually perceive is "what appears to be to your personal perceptions."

these are two different domains, one can be perceived, interpreted, and a meaning can be provided to it, the other is unknown, at least from a perspective of a human being's in-direct perceptions

logically speaking, this whole 'the world is a reflection of our interpretations' is called solipsism, which is an inmature stand at best, and quite a self-damaging one at worst.

no, it is an observation of how my own mind works in my own direct, and first-hand experiences

solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist.

that has nothing to do with the way our mind works, instead it is a belief and assumption that one's mind is the only one...lol

and btw anyone that believes that, actually has a valid belief, because it can't be proven that this experience is not a hallucination that one is having, similar to a dream

i personally don't have this belief, but I can understand how one can hold a belief like that

you see, fundamentally we don't know anything and have no way of knowing, especially taking into account how our senses work, and how our mind interprets everything

all we ever do is believe and assume, including stuff like water is wet, rocks are hard, we were born, we will die...all 100% beliefs

 

[bombadil.360]

hello southflorida,

your stance does indeed fall into the category of solipsism; specially when you re-assert that 'we are basically hallucinating 24/7'. this is classic solipsism.

also, solipsism is not just a philosophical idea confined to the intellectual world, in fact, it can be an actual experience for a given individual who is more than attracted to absolute subjectivism.

we can all agree that is possible to 'hallucinate' due to one's own beliefs and interpretations; however, concluding that such is the basic nature of reality is where the mistake that causes solipsism lies.

peace

 

[southflorida]

hello bombadil,

if we make a clear distinction between "what is" and "what appears to be there to each of us personally" then we can grasp that everything that we perceive in our experience is a hallucination.

we cannot perceive "what is" because it lies outside of our perceptions, let's just say that it is the unknown phenomena that our sense organs convert into "what appears to be to each of us personally" on a moment to moment basis.

and, while the majority of intellectual objects (trees, water, rocks, etc) appear similar to the majority of folks perceiving it, the experience that each sentient being is having is unique for them.

i'm calling them intellectual objects because the intellect confirms that they are objectively there (but in reality only seem to be there).

being objects, like being, consciousness, awareness, etc...at least in the Western culture seem to be something that don't even exists, most believe these to be fairy tales and delusions

...what's funny is that these same people go to church and believe in a God that creates everything...lol...in an attempt to avoid responsibility for the fact, that they are the ones creating their realities themselves

the basic nature of reality (what is) is something that is impossible to perceive or talk about, since it lies outside our perceptions

you are probably talking about the nature of our personal perceptions (what appears to be to us personally)...

...and taking into account how our organs of perception function, I'm not even going outside the box saying that each of us is hallucinating our personal and first hand experience on a moment to moment basis.

the only thing standing in the way of accepting this is cultural beliefs and assumptions that what we observe if objective physical reality, and everything outside of it is unreal, as in doesn't exist...lol

 

[bombadil.360]

how r u southflorida?

again, when you state that: "... in an attempt to avoid responsibility for the fact, that they are the ones creating their realities themselves"

this expresses pure solipsism, you may find more info on such view under 'subjective idealism' as well.

the flaws with it are many and well documented; another example would be that regardless of beliefs and culture, we react to many situations in the same way i.e: jelousy kicks in when another tried to make his/her the object of your love and/or likes.

or anger in the face of wrong-doings, whether actual or perceived.

this suggests that our original awareness is not tabula rasa, but pre-infused before birth.

another great argument that defeated solipsism is the fact that the natural
world (water, rocks, trees) were already here before any human awareness could have been needed to make them manifest; an argument that empirically shatters solopsism to say the least, and which proves the actual objectivity of nature.

be good!

 

[bombadil.360]

Can't see what I just posted... gonna repost to see if it appears:

how r u southflorida?

again, when you state that: "... in an attempt to avoid responsibility for the fact, that they are the ones creating their realities themselves"

this expresses pure solipsism, you may find more info on such view under 'subjective idealism' as well.

the flaws with it are many and well documented; another example would be that regardless of beliefs and culture, we react to many situations in the same way i.e: jelousy kicks in when another tried to make his/her the object of your love and/or likes.

or anger in the face of wrong-doings, whether actual or perceived.

this suggests that our original awareness is not tabula rasa, but pre-infused before birth.

another great argument that defeated solipsism is the fact that the natural
world (water, rocks, trees) were already here before any human awareness could have been needed to make them manifest; an argument that empirically shatters solopsism to say the least, and which proves the actual objectivity of nature.

be good!

 

[mrcreosote]

thought experiment:

Your foot is stuck on the train tracks and I'm looking at the tracks riding in the train. The same coming 'event' will be viewed by both you and I from our different perspectives. Unless you free your foot in the next 3 seconds, I can extrapolate the results. You, on the other hand, choose to see a different 'reality'.

Are the forthcoming results dependent on your perception of reality or will you be subject to a basic physical law about 2 objects occupying the same space?

Hint: The train is not interested in what you believe.

 

[southflorida]

I'm good bombadil...what have you've been up to? Where's Carlos Castenada, is he still trying to get rid of his self-importance?....lol...yeah Don Juan was my favorite mofo, I even went to Mexico in 1991, when I was 21, because I wanted to find someone like him, so that he can teach me some of that wisdom, and to have some of that wonderful "smoke" and peyote. That whole endeavour didn't turn our too well, when I got to the first bus stop inside El Paso, Mexico, some old Mexican man told me to take my gringo-ass back home, because I wouldn't last long there.

Don't know why, but I listened to him, went back to El Paso, Texas, and from there on a greyhound to Phoenix, Arizona, where I lived for two crazy years. Crazy because I was smoking base, dropping acid, and a bunch of other drugs, while supporting it with activities, that weren't exactly "legal."

I understand what you're saying about the actual objectivity of nature, but this is from the view of cultural beliefs and assumptions, not from the Big Picture, but from the little picture. Even Einstein, in the 60's came to the conclusion that the true nature of everything was based on an information-based energy field.

But, in my opinion, it is not important if this reality is real or a hallucination, what matters is the choices that we're making on a moment to moment basis.

This is what life is really all about. Making choices, learning from them, and becoming better human beings (more loving, fearless, humble, compassionate, etc).

This is primary, everything else is secondary.

At least that has been my observation based on first-hand experience and the contemplation of those experiences over many years.

Peace!

 

[southflorida]

thought experiment:

Your foot is stuck on the train tracks and I'm looking at the tracks riding in the train. The same coming 'event' will be viewed by both you and I from our different perspectives. Unless you free your foot in the next 3 seconds, I can extrapolate the results. You, on the other hand, choose to see a different 'reality'.

Are the forthcoming results dependent on your perception of reality or will you be subject to a basic physical law about 2 objects occupying the same space?

Hint: The train is not interested in what you believe.

I will need a large dose of morphine

To keep this physical reality "real" there is obviously a rule set, which is our physics. If there was no such thing, people couldn't focus on what is important, and would be wasting time with all kinds of BS happening....like in dreams, which is an experience similar to ours here, only with different rule-sets (physics).

My point, is that whatever occurs in our perceptions is in-direct, because our sensing apparatus doesn't perceive what is actually there in reality, the "what is" but instead perceives "what appears to be" to us.

This is the distinction that I keep making over and over, and few people are willing to admit that this is so.

"What is" and "what appears to be" are two different domains.

In the "what appears to be" my foot would be choped off, in the "what is" domain I wouldn't know what happens, because that is outside of our human perceptions.

 

[bombadil.360]

yo southflorida!

that's a crazy story about Mexico, wtf... probably a drunk and resented individual; have met too many, being from latin america and all, got to witness similar things.

but you know what, if want to wax Castaneda style, we could say what that guy told you was an omen, and that you would not have been able to find a path with a heart over there at that time.

or maybe he was a reflection of your inner world? hehehe, just fucking with you a bit

btw, Castaneda paased away several years ago.

not sure if I enjoyed his later books as much as the first three, journey to ixtlan being my favorite, and his last real book the active side of infinity was very enjoyed as well... but the whole soap opera like books in-between left tons to be desired.

but harking back to the topic at hand, you say that: "My point, is that whatever occurs in our perceptions is in-direct, because our sensing apparatus doesn't perceive what is actually there in reality, the "what is" but instead perceives "what appears to be" to us."

this reminds me of when I thought that since we are only able to physically perceive a tiny bit of the electromagnetic spectrum, that this meant that we only get a glimpse of the whole due to the perceptual limitations of our biological organism; however, today I think that what we in fact perceive with this biological apparatus is not to be considered under such erroneous terms, since afterall, it is these senses all that we have and there is simply no other way for us to make sense of anything else.

that is, the info your senses provide you with (as well as all technological extentions of them) do in fact provide you with all there actually is; like the truth of a beautiful woman which is her beaty smacking you in a sense of aesthetics that transcends all beliefs and cultural conditionings.

what is more interesting to me nowdays in the area of perception, is to turn this awareness that allows us to perceive back on itself. to use it to look back at this primal animator that also is making my heart beat atm without any willful effort on my part. to see that I did not create this vital energy breathing life into me; nothing more humbling for us idiotic apes if u were to ask me.

peace and good health!