Next time you're wandering around the Olympic forest areas, find the right fungi and you'll see thousands of these hopping around - seriously.
Spikes and Layers?
- Thread starter all natural
- Start date
is this a good place to debunk sub's "supersoil" hot bottom-layer method?
Probably but I'd advise against it unless you want to be labeled a 'hater' - I'll supply you with a hanky if needed though!
haha what would the hanky be for?
..and I believe everything they say..because I read it in a magazine.
See what those damned magazines did...unbelievable.
No other plant on Earth gets this kind of BS applied to it as if fact....opium poppies...nope. Perhaps the thing is cannabis is such a tolerable plant that it can take a truckload of abuse before it dies...how would anyone know that any of this is what cannabis NEEDS when it can take so much BS from humans??..(except those of us who have actually planted cannabis in native ground with no additional additives and had them be perfectly healthy and high yielding cannabis plants)...probably because we carried it with us for thousands of years and it became tolerant to our BS.
Over it..party on Wayne.
To wipe the tears and mucous running down the face of your interlocutors.
Couldn't hurt - public health issue and all
They took the children's bread
Gave it to the dogs
They took the children's bread
Gave it to the dogs
Making so many people's lives so hard
Children's Bread - Jimmy Cliff "Rebirth"
OMFG.....sure it will 'work'...but yet another made-up agricultural action to grow a plant that can tolerate this very BS.
A human being really has to fuck shit up on a grand scale not to be able to grow cannabis in just about anything...hence the hydro-store paradigm.
The soil I build mostly resembles a rich diverse mostly deciduous forest where the biological actions are played out through the years. Only thing is that I'm FORCING this plant to deal with my BS...so I push it through non-stop cycles and exhaust nutrition from my recycled soil that must be replaced. These plants are not having natural life cycles where they put their own organic matter back into the soil every cycle...which in itself is un-natural in an indoor potted plant environment.
"I'm just mimicking nature"...hardly...I'm just allowing the natural processes to actually be allowed to work in the soil without my human BS getting in the way.
De-bunkin yo~
S
SeaMaiden
Human beings fuck up on a grand scale on a very, very regular basis, Gascan.
Just sayin'....
Just sayin'....
Human beings fuck up on a grand scale on a very, very regular basis, Gascan.
Just sayin'....
Wurd.... incompetence is rampant and spreading faster than a slime mold.
put some hydrozyme on that.
Funny...could buy hyglow-zyme or make your own EM-1....or a lacto bacillus culture would be just as effective....for free.
Yes of course, however this is not the usual course of events in nature and as I understand it this method is meant to mimmick natural growing to some degree.
If organic matter degrades underground then there are a different set of organisms feeding on it than at the surface. Many times this is not detrimental to the surrounding plants but it can be devastating if all of the nitrogen or other nutrient is used as fuel for this degradation.
In natural circumstances organic matter is dropped or falls onto the soils surface. At this level there are creatures including fungi and bacteria which are equipped to take full advantage of this location to feed. Through this feeding the material is degraded (broken down) much more rapidly than if buried.
Some exceptions to this are dead stumps and the associated organisms but we are talking annual vegetation here. However I guess there is some parity if we consider dead roots left intact.
Anyway the organisms at the surface have translated the nutrients placed on the surface into a nutrient form which can be rapidly devoured by the next set of microorganisms below them and so on to the ryzosphere where the nutrients are delivered to the roots.
I'm not saying this is the only way which roots derive nutrients but it represents the majority in a living soil.
Similarly there are deep dwelling organisms which can pass up minerals from lower rock/stone.
That you apparently need to place into the spike, blood, guano and other nitrogen materials with a high solubility ratio seems to indicate not relying on the life of the soil for nutrient delivery. I do not know what all purp is but assume all purpose fertilzer. Is this not a step away rather than a step towards the philosophy of living soil? Not saying that it is not organic but perhaps not keeping with the title TLO or whatever.
I am interested and would like to do a trial maybe with tomatoes just to see.
As far as big lumps on the soil/ground in nature, I concur with Gascan that if something in nature survives intact in one place the plants proximal to it die back for a year or so. If you observe a cow pie that is dropped in a meadow it causes a lack of grass growth except for a few inches away surrounding it. This ring of growth is caused by the soluble leach coming from the manure. The same can be said for piles of horse apples (hmmm....must be lunch time soon).
However once these 'piles' have been dried by the air and sun, attacked by beetles and worms and fungi and bacteria/archaea they rapidly degrade into living soil nutrients and the grass abounds.
Farmers speed up this process by chain harrowing which breaks up the manure a spreads it around the meadow.
There are different ways of utilizing a living soil. Some like Gascan remix their soil periodically, whereas I have prefered (yes laziness has something to do with it) building a larger body of soil and mixing it only once and then just topdress and plant for at least several years.
With the layer method, is it re-layered prior to each new planting? If so is there a logic to this?
J
jerry111165
But in the meantime, sure the hell ain't nuthin' gonna grow there until that dead animal is completely gone, either.
So, again, until that "spike" is totally and completely composted ain't nuthin' gonna grow in that spot, either, and for the relatively short life span of a marijuana plant I ask again - how could that possibly be good? It seems like a common sense thing to me.
To each his/her own.
Jerry
Amber Trich
Active member
nice post MM 
i dont think this method is necessarily trying to mimmick nature, but it does use natural things and utilize microbes
other sources of underground compost could be vole or gopher holes they probably have nest material and food scraps down there plus wastes and maybe dead ones
when you say that is a step away from living soil philosophy do you mean because it is a purchased premixed item? otherwise its made from things that would normally be used to amend/topdress/remix living soil
so there is an initial hot time of die back but then things boom.. that is like the spike.
by the time the root is in the vicinity things are apparently ready to boom
i think the layers are usually remade each time. at one point though i think rev was recommending taking cross sections from a composting soil tote and moving that into the flowering container with layers intact
the use of amendments on the floor of the container seems to keep the roots from ringing around the bottom of the pot.. so they can pretty big in a small container
i dont think this method is necessarily trying to mimmick nature, but it does use natural things and utilize microbes
other sources of underground compost could be vole or gopher holes they probably have nest material and food scraps down there plus wastes and maybe dead ones
I know what you mean but the spikes themselves rely on living soil, otherwise they will burn roots/leaves
yeah all purp being something like foxfarm 555 or coast of maine all purpose
when you say that is a step away from living soil philosophy do you mean because it is a purchased premixed item? otherwise its made from things that would normally be used to amend/topdress/remix living soil
so there is an initial hot time of die back but then things boom.. that is like the spike.
by the time the root is in the vicinity things are apparently ready to boom
i think the layers are usually remade each time. at one point though i think rev was recommending taking cross sections from a composting soil tote and moving that into the flowering container with layers intact
the use of amendments on the floor of the container seems to keep the roots from ringing around the bottom of the pot.. so they can pretty big in a small container
Amber Trich
Active member
the spike itself really doesnt take up much volume of the container
J
jerry111165
I'd rather just use Jobes Fertilizer Spikes anyhow - and hey! We have those Jackalopes up here in Maine! We must, anyhow, they're hung up in all the local country stores.
Did somebody mention Subcools Super Soil?
J
Did somebody mention Subcools Super Soil?
J
Jerry
That explains why there's so many Jackaloupes out in the Oregon countryside at 'Mom's Eats' and 'Good Food Diner' out in Pendleton - it's to make Mainians feel at home.
Heck they named Portland after Portland, Maine so this is just another step to greet our old neighbors.
Touching isn't it?
That explains why there's so many Jackaloupes out in the Oregon countryside at 'Mom's Eats' and 'Good Food Diner' out in Pendleton - it's to make Mainians feel at home.
Heck they named Portland after Portland, Maine so this is just another step to greet our old neighbors.
Touching isn't it?
I have trouble making the comparison but if it works for you and you are happy...why not?
I guess one thing I find disturbing to me is that nobody has presented the reasoning behind the method outside of injecting fertilizers to the plant. To me that's kind of samo samo but someones trying to put a twist on it to make it new and sellable. I could be completely full of it. Perhaps there is all kinds of logical research behind it and I just have not seen it.
It kinda reminds me of veganics, which also works..apparently.
As far as moving steps away from natural growing maybe I can explain it like; you've got Masanobu Fukuoka (one straw) who does not even use compost who is very close to natural growing; you've got me (& Jay?) who uses [vermi]compost and raw organic matter but does not remix/reamend the soil regularly getting a step away from natural growing, you've got Gascan who uses [vermi]compost and remixes and reamends regularly who one could say is a tiny step further, etc. etc.
If I am not mistaken most fertilizer companies strive to create a balanced NPK nutrient product (or one or the other; veg/bloom). Some say they have a product which is already in plant available form. I don't know if those you mention do or don't. I have not used a fertilizer for over 12 years so I'm out of the loop.
Jeez folks, I'm not defending the method, I'm just trying to find a common ground with nature
I'm well aware of the zone of death around high nitrogen deposits, I was just trying to point out that "spikes" do seem to happen out there..
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question for sam the skunkman on the original haze
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