Spikes and Layers?

[ClackamasCootz]

I got mine at Naomi's in Portland, Or.

all natural

At the other store they carry this soil and it's made down in Southern Oregon. They are unique among soil companies in that they produce their own thermal compost and they have a modern, concrete floor, heated vermicomposting operation. This soil costs the same most of the gunk at a grow store - it's made with the same components you have available at either store.

I've used both of their humus products (compost & worm castings) and they're very solid. Not the best but definitely a good option. This is the potting soil I would recommend to new MMJ growers that are complete novices on growing anything.

Just something to consider perhaps......

CC

 

[ixnay007]

The idea of layers is pretty old, I remember hearing about lasagna beds years ago:

http://www.google.com/search?q=lasagna+beds

They're a simple no till implementation, just add a few layers during the year, and the bed will remain well viable.

It's not that far from reality either, in nature a plant has the top layer with leaf mold, topsoil, then further down it's less rich, and finally underneath there's the mineral layer.. top dressing by any other name.

I think if he's promoting something similar, it's not a bad idea, but as with soil mixes, or no till beds, you need to provide time for the microflora to break down the ingredients.

 

[supermanlives]

spikes work just fine.

 

[spurrsbrotha]

Okay you guys, I've been reading this thread and I give up. What is spikes and layers? I understand the term layers, as in layers of different soil substances, aggregate and organic matter (also as Ixnay described) but spikes?? The only spikes which come to mind are those mickey mouse nutrient spikes which are sold for feeding fertilizers over time.

This can't be it surely...!? It can't be synaptic spikes...right?

I could understand the use of layers for setting up a long term living soil bed or bin which would degrade and mix naturally over time but I cannot see it making sense in small container growing....well at least less sense than a preponderance of compost etc. throughly mixed.

 

[supermanlives]

take stick make hole . i use soda bottle cut to make funnel pour in ferts. sometimes you need a chopstick to make ferts go down . remove funnel cover with soil or not and water.make several noles around plant. you just made your own fert spike . and they work well if done right

 

[spurrsbrotha]

take stick make hole . i use soda bottle cut to make funnel pour in ferts. sometimes you need a chopstick to make ferts go down . remove funnel cover with soil or not and water.make several noles around plant. you just made your own fert spike . and they work well if done right

Hmmm...interesting but hardly based on true living soil, at least not in my text book.

What sort of fertilizers do you pour down there? I thought soil microorganisms worked from the top down and the bottom up.

If these fertilizers are not in ionic form is there not a danger of the microbes burning up too much nitrogen (or______?) to degrade these materials?

 

[all natural]

all natural

At the other store they carry this soil and it's made down in Southern Oregon. They are unique among soil companies in that they produce their own thermal compost and they have a modern, concrete floor, heated vermicomposting operation. This soil costs the same most of the gunk at a grow store - it's made with the same components you have available at either store.

I've used both of their humus products (compost & worm castings) and they're very solid. Not the best but definitely a good option. This is the potting soil I would recommend to new MMJ growers that are complete novices on growing anything.

Just something to consider perhaps......

CC

Yes I have used the vital earth seabird guano and always wanted to get the compost and mega worm but the price kept me away. I had been using 4 corners worm castings but my last bag was really wet and the clumps smelled anaerobic. So I bought some castings from Naomi called Ground Up worm castings which are supposed to be a better grade than the 4 corners.

Right now i have a bunch of soil that is basically rev's 2.1 mix then i added a bag of 4 corners potting soil to water it down some. I have added denali gold humus, that bag of worm castings from 4 corners, black gold soil conditioner, chicken manure, rice hulls, pumice, sand, black gold horticulture charcoal. So it is a pretty funky mic right now. Your suggestion has me thinking maybe I should rebuild a new soil using some of those Vital Earth products as a base. But I have 50 pound bags of humates and other stuff I bought for rev's mix so maybe I could incorporate those into the new mix. I dont know, it has got me thinking tho, so thanks !!

 

[Amber Trich]

Hmmm...interesting but hardly based on true living soil, at least not in my text book.

What sort of fertilizers do you pour down there? I thought soil microorganisms worked from the top down and the bottom up.

If these fertilizers are not in ionic form is there not a danger of the microbes burning up too much nitrogen (or______?) to degrade these materials?

organic matter breaks down underground

the spikes generally have enough nitrogen to sustain themselves

an example would be a 1 part blood, 1 part kelp, 2 parts all purp
or 1 part kelp, 1 part soybeanmeal/seabird guano, 2 parts all purp there are tons of variations usually organic stuff over mineral except for whats in the all purp

the soil has to be active enough to break the spikes down before the roots get to them

 

[jerry111165]

Sounds like a gimmick to me. What happens if and when these "spikes" aren't broken down quickly enough? Your roots end up touching raw blood meal? How can that possibly be good?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Sounds like a gimmick to me.

Do ya think? the entire premise is based on misinformation by 'The Rev' that this silliness is an attempt to duplicate 'what goes on in nature' - really? I wonder how farmers would (or could) deal with their annual soil test - must take a f*cking week to get enough samples from the 'spikes & layers' out there in the north 40

Ya gotta love grow store science - forget science how about how things work in the real world?

CC

 

[ixnay007]

It depends on what you view as natural, also what your "spike" is made of..

One example of a spike with a lot of nitrogen would be a dead animal, or a pile of predator poop, pretty damn hot for a while, concentrated in one area, and for sure as it decomposes, the nutrients are going to head down pretty directly, due to gravity and rain.

Certainly, out there in nature, there's nobody stirring up your compost, or mixing aeration ingredients, or any of the other things we do..

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Certainly, out there in nature, there's nobody stirring up your compost, or mixing aeration ingredients, or any of the other things we do..

How about earthworms? That's what they do 'out there in nature' in conjunction with the microbes - break down organic matter.

CC

 

[ixnay007]

How about earthworms? That's what they do 'out there in nature' in conjunction with the microbes - break down organic matter.

CC

In a certain sense, yes, but they're not going to distribute it with any regularity, they're just going from food source to food source. If one wants to stretch the time scale (seasons or years) yeah, things do get mixed up. It's not the same sort of mixing we're used to, a dead squirrel will probably benefit the plants closest to it's grave, whereas in our grows decomposed materials are usually distributed as evenly as possible

 

[Gascanastan]

Sorry for the neg rep Coot..my thumb slipped on my goo goo phone...clearly meant to pos rep that one!!!

Silly indeed....in nature big globs of blood seldom occur. When I used to hunt and shoot deer with high powered rifles the blood that spilled was never in 'spikes'...and if the animal laid there more than 5 minutes bleeding the 'layer' was soon found by predators which literally ate the freaking dirt with that blood. I find it externally difficult to buy that outside of a grizzly attacking a lame or sick animal and making a bloody mess of it that blood 'spikes and layers' exist at all....much less greensand....bonemeal,bat guano,etc.....Bullshit. Blood spikes...really?

Even after gutting the animal..those very guts are eating by predators and scavengers within a day or more realistically hours.

Nowhere in nature are these things occurring...even dead animals destroy any plant growth around them for at least a year...seriously...ever find a grizzly killed elk in the wilderness of Montana...take a closer look....I have...several times....nothing grows where that animal was shredded and it's juices leached into the soil....nothing...notta...ziltch...at least for a year or more. Then after all that fat and rotting tissue has FULLY been broken down do the first grasses make there entrance.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

In a certain sense, yes, but they're not going to distribute it with any regularity, they're just going from food source to food source. If one wants to stretch the time scale (seasons or years) yeah, things do get mixed up. It's not the same sort of mixing we're used to, a dead squirrel will probably benefit the plants closest to it's grave, whereas in our grows decomposed materials are usually distributed as evenly as possible

"around these here parts' dead animals are eaten by other critters - like raccoons, owls, crows, mammals, etc.

I guess that things move differently in the People's Republic of Orygun.

I've hiked in the Oregon forests for over 25 years and the number of dead animals that I've seen lying on the forest floor would total less than 5 and those were deer carcasses.

 

[Gascanastan]

"around these here parts' dead animals are eaten by other critters - like raccoons, owls, crows, mammals, etc.

I guess that things move differently in the People's Republic of Orygun.

I've hiked in the Oregon forests for over 25 years and the number of dead animals that I've seen lying on the forest floor would total less than 5 and those were deer carcasses.

I've been in the 'woods' all my life.....even the shed antlers don't last long at all.....squirrel's and porcupines love to eat them...calcium. Nothing out there that is available nutrition just laying around ever stays around for longer than a couple days.

Another thing that I would call BS to next to spikes and layers would be Bigfoot...again....all my life in the HEAVY wilderness of the lower 48 and NEVER a track or sign. Oh and I can track and hunt baby~

Even when the salmon run and get their bodies drug up on the shores of the rivers and into the bushes surrounding the streams by coyotes,bears and other scavengers..NEVER last long...Eagles,crows,seagulls,etc,etc....all play a part in that cycle.


Poop...bear scat,dear,elk,moose,caribou....NONE of this animal waste stays around for long...bugs eat it...and other animals. The only shit that you'll see laying around is canine....dog,wolf,coyote,fox. Cougar shit is also attractive to bugs....

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I've seen Bigfoot. I know Bigfoot. I lived with Bigfoot - until the divorce that is.

 

[Gascanastan]

I've seen Bigfoot. I know Bigfoot. I lived with Bigfoot - until the divorce that is.

Yeah..that chick taught me how to incorporate blood spikes in my in-cave hand woven grass smart pot potted huckleberries.....man. Outta control daddy....mimicking nature....hardly.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

GC

Ever seen on of these?

 

[Gascanastan]

GC

Ever seen on of these?

View Image

Clearly a naturally evolved mammal for the plains....the antlers are protection against predators...and they use them to spar for females during the rut.

When they die they automatically bury themselves so they make a 'layer' of nutrition for the plants....man....then the 'Indians' used to come along and poke sticks into the ground and fill it with the rotting flesh,blood,etc....for 'spikes' for the plants....man.