solvent for Rick Simpson oil

[BigJohnny]

Acetone toxicity:

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/acetone_addendum.pdf

Make sure it's actually "100% pure acetone," I see they add a 'bitterant' to nail polish remover, something called denatonium. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium Here's a product listing honest enough to state it outright:

"ONYX Professionals 100% Pure Acetone Nail Polish Remover:
<snip>
Ingredients:
Acetone, Denatonium Benzoate."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONYX-Profes...003225?hash=item419c878c59:g:2-4AAOSw9r1V9cKl

Here's Dudadiesel's acetone that contains links to both the MSDS and Certificate of Analysis.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/950ml-Pure-...051925?hash=item51bf502655:g:xGIAAOSw8lBTqGH9

A normal vacuum purge will produce a clean enough product.

Acetone is on the DEA's List II of 'watched' precursors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEA_list_of_chemicals

Actually I just discovered that the place I buy my 5 gallon buckets of ISO also carry 5 gallon buckets of acetone too.
I didn't look into it because I don't really need that much but I'm sure they would have the "good shit" because they're like a marble/tile supply store or something.
I've never used nail polish remover, always picked up acetone from places like home depot.

If I do need some though I'll be heading back to my ISO supplier for sure, it's probably cheap as shit. 5 gallons of 99.9% ISO is only $65

 

[G.O. Joe]

I admire those more who stick to the facts as opposed to their opinions and don't lead gullible brothers and sisters astray.

Slander much?

Attached is a copy of a MSDS clearly supporting my position. Will you be so kind as to show yours refuting it.

Attached is the MSDS for the acetone that people will actually be using. Klean-Strip keeps it real. SkyHighLer already posted most all I have to say. He posts a serious review like that and then you come waving a freaking MSDS?

No MSDS in the history of the MSDS has ever been used as a scientific reference, except by people on the internet who think they mean something, and you know I already went over all that during the dimethyl ether episode.

Real hazard profilers looking for trouble do not find that whatever it is that you're talking about means anything at all, because it doesn't. Sure you have an excuse, people are told that they are supposed to believe what the MSDS says I suppose. For your apparent reference to females, rats did have some bad kids at 11,000 ppm but EPA in the attached 85-page review from 2003 adds: The incidence of fetal malformations was not statistically significantly increased in any exposed group.

Acetone has been a common solvent for 150 years. If there was a problem, maybe someone would have noticed by now? In the real world like where I work there is tremendous occupational exposure to acetone and if there was any real problem then OSHA wouldn't allow 1000 ppm. There is no lower limit for women because that would be uncalled for. Want to compare permissible and recommended limits for acetone and hexane?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Slander much?

How would you best describe your style brother GJ?

Attached is the MSDS for the acetone that people will actually be using.

You appear to continue to make ASS-U-mtions. The debate is acetone, not Klean-Strip.

Unlike Klean-Strip, Science Labs is not a manufacturer, and is and not the only MSDS listing it as a reproductive toxin.

The important things is that NIOSH does, hence my concern.

Klean-Strip keeps it real. SkyHighLer already posted most all I have to say. He posts a serious review like that and then you come waving a freaking MSDS?

No MSDS in the history of the MSDS has ever been used as a scientific reference, except by people on the internet who think they mean something, and you know I already went over all that during the dimethyl ether episode.

Coming from an industrial background I beg to differ. It fell on me and mine to design and install the ventilation systems where acetone was regularly used in our industry, and I had OSHA up my butt if a worker complained, and OSHA very definitely believes in NIOSH, as well as enforce their standards.

The hygienist hung pumps and filters on the employees and measured their exposure. They also required us to exhaust all engineering avenues to meet the standard, before resorting to personal protection.

Real hazard profilers looking for trouble do not find that whatever it is that you're talking about means anything at all, because it doesn't. Sure you have an excuse, people are told that they are supposed to believe what the MSDS says I suppose. For your apparent reference to females, rats did have some bad kids at 11,000 ppm but EPA in the attached 85-page review from 2003 adds: The incidence of fetal malformations was not statistically significantly increased in any exposed group.


Acetone has been a common solvent for 150 years. If there was a problem, maybe someone would have noticed by now? In the real world like where I work there is tremendous occupational exposure to acetone and if there was any real problem then OSHA wouldn't allow 1000 ppm. There is no lower limit for women because that would be uncalled for. Want to compare permissible and recommended limits for acetone and hexane?

Acetone is a common solvent, which we used to remove ink marks, degrease local spots before welding exotic alloys, and to bleed back fluorescent penetrant indications during NDT inspection. When we first started experimenting making plastic pattern glues, we used acetone to dissolve styrofoam cups to produce one that was effective.

It is the ingesting part that my life's experience has me wary of in my simple minded dotage.

I readily confess that I'm not qualified by training or experience to professionally evaluate medical matters, and I infer by the lack of Doctor in front of your name, that you aren't either, sooooooooo I sent our own beloved Dr Kate, Pharm D, licensed compounding pharmacists, an email, and asked her thoughts.

I'll share those with ya'll when I hear back.

Just so any with open ears are interested, NIOSH is very interested in the cannabis industry, now that we are gaining legitimacy. I was in fact part of a group who was invited to join three of their Hygienists, along with others in the cannabis industry, at a gathering in the land of WA, to start their education into the various aspects of our business, so that they can begin writing appropriate regulations and standards for OSHA.

With legalization comes regulation, so if you have employees in your cannabis business, expect the same level of OSHA oversight in how well you take care of them, as the rest of US industries.

 

[live resin]

Nothing is harmful in a small enough dose, and everything will kill you in a sufficiently high dose.

If it's an organic solvent, purge it. I think most ppl here have enough common sense to do that, and not drink or bathe in acetone.

Not to mention, that ethanol most ppl are drinking regularly is going to cause many more negative health effects over the long term than incidental exposure to acetone

 

[pusbag]

Butane works great

Butane works great

I also have used butane. I just winterize cannabis oleo resin and decarboxylate it. Works great with low residual solvent like 6 ppm. If you got a closed loop extractor I think it's the best way to go.

 

[G.O. Joe]

The most selective clean solvent that you can get at a store and is not butane is Bestine heptane, but I get all my heptane from the heptane part of starting fluid.

How would you best describe your style brother GJ?

You appear to continue to make ASS-U-mtions. The debate is acetone, not Klean-Strip.

Unlike Klean-Strip, Science Labs is not a manufacturer, and is and not the only MSDS listing it as a reproductive toxin.

The important things is that NIOSH does, hence my concern.

Style? What?

So your obscure bullshit list is in fact a MSDS and what, yet you're offended by my pre-characterization of it as an obscure, bullshit list? You haughtily offer only more of the same?

Does this imply that it's on some sort of NIOSH list? The entry for acetone in their hazard guide doesn't mention anything scary at all. You'll be happy to know that the Germans do make pregnancy risk group lists for their chemicals and I went that extra mile for you and everyone and looked up acetone. Guess what! It's in Group D!! It means the Germans don't care about your MSDS either. I'll alert them to Dr. Kate.

Coming from an industrial background I beg to differ. It fell on me and mine to design and install the ventilation systems where acetone was regularly used in our industry, and I had OSHA up my butt if a worker complained, and OSHA very definitely believes in NIOSH, as well as enforce their standards.

The hygienist hung pumps and filters on the employees and measured their exposure. They also required us to exhaust all engineering avenues to meet the standard, before resorting to personal protection.

Working in an industrial background currently going through 60,000#/month of acetone, it's funny that you explain that to me. Most of our products are made with acetone as the solvent, which ends up in the atmosphere in compliance with all regulations, and I'm in the thick of it. I've worn those old sucker devices many times and they do suck, but they're looking for exposure to reagents, because everyone knows that acetone isn't anything to be worried about.

They still do care about and monitor the acetone in the air, so the plant doesn't explode. The ventilation system is effective and cheap, yet no one is impressed by the design or installation.

 

[BigJohnny]

The most selective clean solvent that you can get at a store and is not butane is Bestine heptane, but I get all my heptane from the heptane part of starting fluid.



Style? What?

So your obscure bullshit list is in fact a MSDS and what, yet you're offended by my pre-characterization of it as an obscure, bullshit list? You haughtily offer only more of the same?

Does this imply that it's on some sort of NIOSH list? The entry for acetone in their hazard guide doesn't mention anything scary at all. You'll be happy to know that the Germans do make pregnancy risk group lists for their chemicals and I went that extra mile for you and everyone and looked up acetone. Guess what! It's in Group D!! It means the Germans don't care about your MSDS either. I'll alert them to Dr. Kate.



Working in an industrial background currently going through 60,000#/month of acetone, it's funny that you explain that to me. Most of our products are made with acetone as the solvent, which ends up in the atmosphere in compliance with all regulations, and I'm in the thick of it. I've worn those old sucker devices many times and they do suck, but they're looking for exposure to reagents, because everyone knows that acetone isn't anything to be worried about.

They still do care about and monitor the acetone in the air, so the plant doesn't explode. The ventilation system is effective and cheap, yet no one is impressed by the design or installation.

Everything else aside, I'm really curious what industry uses 30 tons/month of acetone.

 

[SkyHighLer]

Acetone makes a nice extraction, but we don't use it because it is listed as a reproduction system toxin.

Now there's something to contest, does acetone easily make a nice extraction?

As I recall it cuts hard, deep, wide, and fast. I'd think you'd have to have good technique to avoid 'green grease,' though the smell should be divine.

 

[G.O. Joe]

Everything else aside, I'm really curious what industry uses 30 tons/month of acetone.

So you see why I have to be vague, although acetone is a high-volume chemical. It's not something you see everywhere and you'd be surprised how few people it takes to run a plant this big, and how casually we hook up to containers up to the size of tanks that can each hold a few train cars of deadly toxic liquids.

From the posts I read here, the internet is so much more fearful than industry that I can't even begin to explain it. We get high exposure to all manner of chemicals in spills and dust alone. Accidents happen and pumps die, so we know what the worst chemicals smell like and we smell them most of the time.

 

[Gray Wolf]

The most selective clean solvent that you can get at a store and is not butane is Bestine heptane, but I get all my heptane from the heptane part of starting fluid.

Ummmmm, also more likely to leave residuals behind in the average extraction lab.



Style? What?

I rest my case.

So your obscure bullshit list is in fact a MSDS and what, yet you're offended by my pre-characterization of it as an obscure, bullshit list? You haughtily offer only more of the same?

What I've pointed out, is that not every "official" source believes that acetone is as salubrious as you present it to be. I didn't write the MSDS, I just bring it to the attention of those who might be interested. Clearly you are not.

Does this imply that it's on some sort of NIOSH list? The entry for acetone in their hazard guide doesn't mention anything scary at all. You'll be happy to know that the Germans do make pregnancy risk group lists for their chemicals and I went that extra mile for you and everyone and looked up acetone. Guess what! It's in Group D!! It means the Germans don't care about your MSDS either. I'll alert them to Dr. Kate.



Working in an industrial background currently going through 60,000#/month of acetone, it's funny that you explain that to me. Most of our products are made with acetone as the solvent, which ends up in the atmosphere in compliance with all regulations, and I'm in the thick of it. I've worn those old sucker devices many times and they do suck, but they're looking for exposure to reagents, because everyone knows that acetone isn't anything to be worried about.

They still do care about and monitor the acetone in the air, so the plant doesn't explode. The ventilation system is effective and cheap, yet no one is impressed by the design or installation.

I've pointed out that neither you or I are doctors, and you reject my industrial experience and MSD data as irrelevant, using an EPA document as support. Good point that neither is specific to the question.

On something as important as babies, I make it a practice to consult with professionals who don't have their ego involved, so that is what I've done.

When I hear back from Dr Kate about her views on the subject she holds her doctorate in, I will report that without alteration or prejudice on this forum, because my ego is not as important to me, as the welfare of those reading this.

Those who are interested are welcome. Those like yourself, to whom only your answer is suitable, is not whom I'm doing it for, so your opinion of her credentials is of little concern to me.

 

[G.O. Joe]

Ummmmm, also more likely to leave residuals behind in the average extraction lab.

Fortunately, heptane, like acetone, and isopropyl alcohol which is metabolized to acetone, in small quantities up to far beyond the threshold of sensory detection, has no known toxic action going on at all in animals or humans, unlike hexane. Heptane is a much better choice than camping fuel or VM&P naphtha, which should never be used at all unless it has been distilled.

Your attempt to set up more slander, a false premise, false dichotomy, and installation of your buddy as arbiter, is categorically rejected. It's not egotistical it's facts and truth, what I guess you call my style. The fingers pointing back at you are accepted, however.

What happened to NIOSH? They are recommending a limit of 600 mg/m3 40 hours a week, because obvious volatile organic overexposure symptoms arise at higher levels. How much acetone will someone breathe in over a week at that concentration? Is NIOSH part of a conspiracy to hide the true nature of acetone toxicity, because they say nothing about reproductive harm? Your MSDS overrules that? Dr. Kate does?

Attached is a copy of a MSDS clearly supporting my position. Will you be so kind as to show yours refuting it.

You appear to continue to make ASS-U-mtions. The debate is acetone, not Klean-Strip.

Unlike Klean-Strip, Science Labs is not a manufacturer, and is and not the only MSDS listing it as a reproductive toxin.

You showed your MSDS and I presented the MSDS for the most available acetone in the country, and you dismissed it with a wave and eyeroll. How is your MSDS valid and mine not, exactly?

Just so any with open ears are interested, NIOSH is very interested in the cannabis industry, now that we are gaining legitimacy. I was in fact part of a group who was invited to join three of their Hygienists, along with others in the cannabis industry, at a gathering in the land of WA, to start their education into the various aspects of our business, so that they can begin writing appropriate regulations and standards for OSHA.

I worry for the PNW even though I've never lived there. Maybe there is a weak beam of light - the new OR law allowing untrained amateurs to pump their own gas, but only in certain situations that will probably never happen again. Gotta start somewhere.

 

[SkyHighLer]

Is ethanol still the only 'socially acceptable' solvent for tincture dilutions? No one afaik is suggesting orally ingesting even a drop of isopropyl, acetone, or hexane, and of course not 'Naphtha'(Coleman Fuel.) And if anyone thinks ethanol is harmless, swallow a shot glass of 100%, swish it around and savor it before swallowing, I love you, Jesus

 

[Gray Wolf]

Fortunately, heptane, like acetone, and isopropyl alcohol which is metabolized to acetone, in small quantities up to far beyond the threshold of sensory detection, has no known toxic action going on at all in animals or humans, unlike hexane. Heptane is a much better choice than camping fuel or VM&P naphtha, which should never be used at all unless it has been distilled.

Your attempt to set up more slander, a false premise, false dichotomy, and installation of your buddy as arbiter, is categorically rejected. It's not egotistical it's facts and truth, what I guess you call my style. The fingers pointing back at you are accepted, however.

What happened to NIOSH? They are recommending a limit of 600 mg/m3 40 hours a week, because obvious volatile organic overexposure symptoms arise at higher levels. How much acetone will someone breathe in over a week at that concentration? Is NIOSH part of a conspiracy to hide the true nature of acetone toxicity, because they say nothing about reproductive harm? Your MSDS overrules that? Dr. Kate does?





You showed your MSDS and I presented the MSDS for the most available acetone in the country, and you dismissed it with a wave and eyeroll. How is your MSDS valid and mine not, exactly?



I worry for the PNW even though I've never lived there. Maybe there is a weak beam of light - the new OR law allowing untrained amateurs to pump their own gas, but only in certain situations that will probably never happen again. Gotta start somewhere.

If you are so sure you are right, why should me referring the question to an expert be a problem for you?

I am referring it to an expert, because exposing a baby to a lifetime of problems, it is too important to fall to interpretation by non professionals such as me and yourself.

Resolving such issues is one of the prime reasons why Skunk Pharm Research has cultivated licensed experts instead of relying on who bellows the loudest.

Sadly you long ago identified yourself as a non reliable resource on things I am specifically trained for, so I know what you are, and long ago learned to recognize your adolescent taunts and bullying style, as simple minded public masturbation.

As I've stated, when I hear back from Kate, I will publish what a licensed compounding pharmacist was taught with regard to acetone for extraction.

At this point I have no idea which way it will go, but those interested are welcome to the information, and I don't care where you stick it GJ, but pose the question.

Are you capable of sticking to the question of acetones suitability, or is that really not your issue?

 

[G.O. Joe]

Acetone works really well, if you evap a dish of acetone there are no residues left behind.

Not only does it work well, it evaporates super fast.

I've used it to winterize before as well as making my own personal oil from saved up bud stems and I've never noticed any kind of taste change from using it.

It's cheap and readily available, especially in Canada where we can't get everclear.

A quick wash on fresh wet buds does sound especially worth testing - if there isn't already ten threads on that. Where I said before I wouldn't use acetone to extract, the thinking was typical style soaking with dried material.

Are you capable of sticking to the question of acetones suitability, or is that really not your issue?

Maybe it's just the gallons of acetone I've inhaled to no other apparent effect ever, but come to think of it, yes I do have a problem when people arguing with me about science avoid science, scientific thought, scientific method, and scientific debate, say they aren't capable of it, and appear to have only the well of lies and slander to go to. I'm funny like that. Can't help you there, but here's how to drop the mic and walk away.

 

[Gray Wolf]

A quick wash on fresh wet buds does sound especially worth testing - if there isn't already ten threads on that. Where I said before I wouldn't use acetone to extract, the thinking was typical style soaking with dried material.



Maybe it's just the gallons of acetone I've inhaled to no other apparent effect ever, but come to think of it, yes I do have a problem when people arguing with me about science avoid science, scientific thought, scientific method, and scientific debate, say they aren't capable of it, and appear to have only the well of lies and slander to go to. I'm funny like that. Can't help you there, but here's how to drop the mic and walk away.

Good to hear you are dropping the mike and walking away GJ, given the bullying trash that comes out of your ego starved mind.

For the rest of ya'll, Dr Kate sends her apologies at being ill and promises her thoughts on Acetone for extraction shortly.

"i! Sorry for not responding earlier...I have been really really sick& on high power antibiotics...mostly all I can do is sleep...

Getting better but I dropped everything for awhile..

I do have some info on acetone but I don't have my laptop with me right now...can you wait until tomorrow night?"

 

[youareaniceguy]

Good to hear you are dropping the mike and walking away GJ, given the bullying trash that comes out of your ego starved mind.

Ooohh the irony!



Is Dr Kate an MD, do, or PhD? What's her credentials in regards to toxicology?

I spoke to a toxicologist who confirms what GJ says is true. He referred me to this document.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofile...wtZsJgo6kcAbJAx3w&sig2=o_v2sFXqlad6W15WH191jg

It mentions possible shortening of menstrual cycles in humans but results were inconclusive and statistically insignificant anyways. Animal trials showed no reproductive effects.

Despite what my contact says I personally wouldn't use acetone, better to err on the side of caution as Gray Wolf is doing here.

 

[BigJohnny]

A quick wash on fresh wet buds does sound especially worth testing - if there isn't already ten threads on that. Where I said before I wouldn't use acetone to extract, the thinking was typical style soaking with dried material.



Maybe it's just the gallons of acetone I've inhaled to no other apparent effect ever, but come to think of it, yes I do have a problem when people arguing with me about science avoid science, scientific thought, scientific method, and scientific debate, say they aren't capable of it, and appear to have only the well of lies and slander to go to. I'm funny like that. Can't help you there, but here's how to drop the mic and walk away.

Soaking is what I was referring to. What I used to do was have a small mason jar with some acetone in it, and when I'd bust up a bud I'd break off the stems and pick out the little stemmy bits and put them in the jar.
That would soak for like a month or two until the jar was full of stems. Then I filtered it and evap'd the acetone.

It would produce the same "green" oil that used to be available back when I was a teenager (remember that shit?! lol) but of a much higher potency than what I'd buy in the past.

I haven't done that for ages now though.

Most recently I've used acetone for winterizing, and in my personal opinion it blows everclear and ISO completely out of the water.
I've had great results using acetone to winterize.... however None of the extract has been tested after a winterization so I can only speak on taste, smell, clarity and consistency.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Ooohh the irony!

Speaking of fragile egoes.

Is Dr Kate an MD, do, or PhD? What's her credentials in regards to toxicology?

Dr Kate is a licensed compounding pharmacologist with a Pharm D. A compounding pharmacologist doesn't dispense pills, they make their own medications.

What continues to be missed, is that we are talking pharmacology, not paint manufacture. What are your pharmacology credentials?

I am firm on my past professional experience, as well as what the MSDS requirements are for industry, but Go Joe did raise doubt, with conflicting EPA information.

Since babies entire lives are at question, as a professional program manager, I did what I have always done professionally, and that is seek the input of those whose profession it is to know the answers I seek.

I have no idea why such professional insight should challenge anyone whose real interests are truth, but I do get it about fragile egoes, that like graffiti and fools faces, always seem to find their way in public places.

As I've noted before, I have no idea what my choice of professionals is going to say, but I can tell you for certain that I won't be getting or passing on pharmaceutical compounding advice from the likes of either you or GJ.

I spoke to a toxicologist who confirms what GJ says is true. He referred me to this document.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofile...wtZsJgo6kcAbJAx3w&sig2=o_v2sFXqlad6W15WH191jg

It mentions possible shortening of menstrual cycles in humans but results were inconclusive and statistically insignificant anyways. Animal trials showed no reproductive effects.

Despite what my contact says I personally wouldn't use acetone, better to err on the side of caution as Gray Wolf is doing here.

Still hanging on for advice from my choice of licensed professionals. Bullying or piling on isn't going to change that, most especially by brothers from whom I have no respect, due to their ongoing BS.

For anyone interested in those unbiased results, stay tuned. For those whose real agenda is personal attack, due to their own personal problems, please consider a life beyond impotent internet kung fu bunny rabbit duels.

 

[Daub Marley]

Wow could we pick anything else more useless to argue about? Toxicity can never be accompanied by a blanketed statement, its merely a general guide. Everyone will react differently to it. There is no right or wrong here and trying to draw that line in the sand is silly. If we talk about humans in groups then you cannot draw that line. You can setup up a statistical relevant zone after enough data, but there is no solid line defining toxicity for groups of people.
GW is just erring on the side of caution. That was his job to find dangers that aren't necessarily noticeable or a concern at the moment. That's part of good risk management because its the things unseen that can cause the most damage. I fully support and appreciate his point of view. I'd rather he be wrong and I follow that wrong advise then he be right and I don't.
GJ is playing devils advocate and explaining the lack of dangers or risk and that's something I certainly appreciate. It's easy to cling to the safe side but to put yourself out there takes balls. Its nice to have someone take this side because in general the cannabis community is hysterical and ignorant when it comes to chemistry. They disregard any chemical that cannot be easily pronounced and are deathly afraid of any potentially harmful chemical no matter how small a dosage they would receive. These people might need to be jolted to change their mindset and using a very curt response to them might be appropriate but not to GW. He's pretty hard to piss off so just soften your tone with him a bit.
So again, there is black and white, no right or wrong here just shades of grey that can be argued about endlessly. Lets let sleeping dogs lie and leave it alone. We'll see what Dr. Kate says, but I doubt it will be anything concrete. Leave it at that...

 

[snake11]

Anyone know off the top of their heads how much fits in a 00 capsule?

.7 filled to the brim