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solvent for Rick Simpson oil

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
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It's nail polish remover. Nearly every human female on the planet is going to be coming into contact with it. It's non-toxic according to common consensual authority, if you or anyone you know has the genuine authority to edit Wikipedia, get to it...

"Health information[edit]
Acetone has been studied extensively and is generally recognized to have low acute and chronic toxicity if ingested and/or inhaled.[38] Acetone is not currently regarded as a carcinogen, a mutagenic chemical or a concern for chronic neurotoxicity effects.[37]

Acetone can be found as an ingredient in a variety of consumer products ranging from cosmetics to processed and unprocessed foods. Acetone has been rated as a generally recognized as safe (GRAS) substance when present in beverages, baked foods, desserts, and preserves at concentrations ranging from 5 to 8 mg/L.[38]

Toxicology[edit]
Acetone is believed to exhibit only slight toxicity in normal use, and there is no strong evidence of chronic health effects if basic precautions are followed.[39]

At very high vapor concentrations, acetone is irritating and, like many other solvents, may depress the central nervous system. It is also a severe irritant on contact with eyes, and a potential pulmonary aspiration risk. In one documented case, ingestion of a substantial amount of acetone led to systemic toxicity, although the patient eventually fully recovered.[40] Some sources estimate LD50 for human ingestion at 0.621 g/kg; LD50 inhalation by mice is given as 23 g/m3, over 4 hours.[41]

Acetone has been shown to have anticonvulsant effects in animal models of epilepsy, in the absence of toxicity, when administered in millimolar concentrations.[42] It has been hypothesized that the high-fat low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet used clinically to control drug-resistant epilepsy in children works by elevating acetone in the brain.[42]

EPA EPCRA Delisting (1995). EPA removed acetone from the list of "toxic chemicals" maintained under Section 313 of the Emergency Planning and Community Right to Know Act (EPCRA). In making that decision, EPA conducted an extensive review of the available toxicity data on acetone and found that acetone "exhibits acute toxicity only at levels that greatly exceed releases and resultant exposures", and further that acetone "exhibits low toxicity in chronic studies".
Genotoxicity. Acetone has been tested in more than two dozen in vitro and in vivo assays. These studies indicate that acetone is not genotoxic.
Carcinogenicity. EPA in 1995 concluded, "There is currently no evidence to suggest a concern for carcinogenicity". (EPCRA Review, described in Section 3.3). NTP scientists have recommended against chronic toxicity/carcinogenicity testing of acetone because "the prechronic studies only demonstrated a very mild toxic response at very high doses in rodents".
Neurotoxicity and Developmental Neurotoxicity. The neurotoxic potential of both acetone and isopropanol, the metabolic precursor of acetone, have been extensively studied. These studies demonstrate that although exposure to high doses of acetone may cause transient central nervous system effects, acetone is not a neurotoxicant. A guideline developmental neurotoxicity study has been conducted with isopropanol, and no developmental neurotoxic effects were identified, even at the highest dose tested. (SIAR, pp. 1, 25, 31).
Environmental. When the EPA exempted acetone from regulation as a volatile organic compound (VOC) in 1995, EPA stated that this exemption would "contribute to the achievement of several important environmental goals and would support EPA's pollution prevention efforts". 60 Fed. Reg. 31,634 (June 16, 1995). 60 Fed. Reg. 31,634 (June 16, 1995). EPA noted that acetone could be used as a substitute for several compounds that are listed as hazardous air pollutants (HAP) under section 112 of the Clean Air Act."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone#Health_information

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_Galactica

"In many of the more relaxed civilizations on the Outer Eastern Rim of the Galaxy, the Hitchhiker’s Guide has already supplanted the great Encyclopaedia Galactica as the standard repository of all knowledge and wisdom, for though it has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate, it scores over the older, more pedestrian work in two important respects.

First, it is slightly cheaper; and second, it has the words "DON'T PANIC" inscribed in large friendly letters on its cover.

— Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (1979)"

You did bring your Tao Li? :ying: :biggrin:

For comedy relief, a professional, unreal line of bs,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJKdh1KZ0w
 
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Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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So, the answer some of ya'll have been waiting for, from Dr. Kate, Pharm D, and anti-climatic. They didn't list concerns as a reproductive toxin, which is more to the point of this discussion.

Here is what Dr Kate had to say:

On the mend. Heading to Corvallis today for the Medicinal Marijuana Research task force meeting!!

I always associate acetone with paint thinner and nail polish remover...yucky smell...and I'm always nervous about its flammability!

I can't find much evidence in any of my botanical extraction handbooks that it is used to extract botanicals on the regular. My Handbook of Pharmaceutical Excipients says:

"Acetone is used as a solvent or cosolvent in topical preparations and as an aid in wet granulation. It has also been used when formulating tablets with water-sensitive active ingredients, or to solvate poorly water-soluble binders in a wet granulation process. Acetone has also been used in the formulation of microspheres to enhance drug release. Owing to its low boiling point, acetone has been used to extract thermolabile substances from crude drugs"

So, sounds to me like it might be good at getting more of the heat-sensitive mono, sesqui, and di-terpenes out of the cannabis....and more of the carboxylic acids...

As for safety, it says: "acetone is considered moderately toxic, and is a skin irritant and severe eye irritant. Prolonged inhalation may result in headaches. Inhalation can also cause conjunctival irritation, respiratory system effects, nausea and vomiting"

As far as I can tell we can safely ingest it in small amounts and we probably do all the time...it's on the FDA list of inactive Ingredients Guide...seems to me it's more of a danger to the processor who has to handle the acetone!

Hope that helps!



 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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So what are your thoughts on acetone?

Those continue to change, but I personally still won't be using it for extracting botanicals for medical patients.

You can note from Dr Kate's input, that the pharmaceutical industry isn't concerned about its use (within FDA standards unstated), though they haven't chosen it as a prime solvent for botanical extraction, despite its ready availability.

Her last statement fits in with my own previously stated experience using it industry. It is mandatory that the MSDS be available for every chemical used in an industrial site, and OSHA enforces the exposure standards if you have employees.

We had to exhaust all engineering resources to meet those standards, before they would allow us to simply rely on personal protection.

The Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration is who is charged with insuring the employer responsibly addresses the health and safety of all US employees.

Sooooo, how did we do it for acetone? We added ventilation that kept the concentration below regulated levels and legally used in our industrial process.

We used downdraft tables in small booths and a push pull system in the larger booths. We used a capture velocity of 100 surface feet per minute, as per Industrial Ventilation, A Manual of Recommended Practice, by The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienist.

I used the 17th Edition, and table 4-1 to pick that 50 to 100 SFM required and generally followed the guidelines in the above industrial ventilation design bible, for the booths and ducting design.

So now you've heard from multiple sources, each with a piece of the puzzle. Pharma, occupational safety, EPA, and other. Time to decide for yourself if acetone is for you.

As far as extracting with it, beyond trying to see how well it worked and its limitations, I never spent time trying to refine the process, for reasons I've alreaded stated. I simply cut the bottom out of a 2-liter selzer water bottle, and packed it with material, before pouring ambient temperature acetone through it, watching for color.

The brother who made a nice acetone extract was Agnostic Taoist, whom as I recall used a pour through and likely where I got the idea back then, though I don't know what temperatures he used or a whole lot of details from that far back.

He is still a member, though conspicuous in his absence since late 2015. I PMed him asking him to join us, but am tongue in cheek on a quick response.
 

BigJohnny

Member
so in other words using acetone for winterizing is basically fine. As long as it's purged out (which seems to happen very easily), but don't use it for extractions, which I wouldn't do anyway.
 

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
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As I've stated previously in this thread, acetone's a good solvent, just needs to be properly purged, but I was reminded with the recent terrorist attack in Belgium, acetone is used by bomb makers to make TATP.

"The chemical name acetone peroxide is most commonly used to refer to the cyclic trimer triacetone triperoxide (TATP; synonyms, tri-cyclic acetone peroxide, TCAP; peroxyacetone), obtained by a reaction between hydrogen peroxide and acetone in an acid-catalyzed nucleophilic addition, although various further monomeric and dimeric forms are possible.[citation needed]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone_peroxide

That and the fact that acetone has been singled out on the DEA's watch list of precursors means I for sure won't be ordering it from eBay etc.
 

Lowman

Member
Couldn't those of us without access to 190 proof....just get the 150 proof and run it through a home countertop distiller before using it for extraction? Less water...less extraction of the unwanted parts.
 
T

Timm

So is there any safe way to make RSO? What is the best solvent to use

I can get 99% food grade iso.. any good?
 

PDX Dopesmoker

Active member
I tried acetone in a couple batches of RSO I made in the 1990s when I lived near the Mexican border and had infinite free weed. As far as I remember it worked fine, about the same as Everclear, but it wasn't as cost effective. The flavor and effect were similar to Everclear oil and the evaporation was much quicker. We also tried gasoline (heptane-octane mix, 87 rating because the mid grade and high test has added cleansers) on a batch. It was much, much cheaper (under a dollar a gallon back then) but tasted "funny" and scared the shit out of us with respect to fire danger. We'd had one small alcohol fire in the kitchen previously so we evaporated the gas batch in a large cooking pot floating in a kiddie pool in the back yard of our "lab".
 

GainGreene

Member
True Story

True Story

A family friend took the RSO(the exact way described in his video on YouTube)whom had terminal cancer and was to undergo surgery in 2months from that time. He really enjoyed the first week and went hard in the paint consuming large amounts of the oil which really is more of a tar. Needless to say he was like a happy grinning zombie, this put him on his ass and he really needed to be looked after. It says to start with a rice grain size piece but homeboy was chewing on dime size pieces. We figured the more the better as time is of the virtue and it puts you in a deep sleep which is where the healing comes in.

Fast forward 3weeks and my mans skin color has improved his face is no damn lie 10years younger looking. The best I have seen him in a decade! :woohoo: I was blown away at the transformation of our amigo. He was complaining of the lack of taste from the oil blah, blah, blah. It is highly recommended to eat as good as possible organic raw juicing etc. So I promptly took him to the bathroom mirror and had him take a good look at himself gave him a pat on the back and he pressed on. Got to finish the batch.

Surgery day... The doctors all standing around him with his chest wide open to remove tumor but that bitch was goooooone! :wave: They just sowed him rite back up and that was the end of that. This is a real story and I just wish a few other close ones could have been saved as well.

Our friend is still out and about! Big ups to Mr Simpson for his efforts and sharing the knowledge to help others and not try to profit of this amazing plant.
 

sadpanda

Member
from https://www.medicaljane.com/2014/02...t-is-the-best-cannabis-oil-extraction-method/
(referenced study in full - http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2013_01_1.pdf)
In the naphtha extract, based on GC peak areas, the content of naphtha residue was roughly similar to the total content of terpenes remaining in the extract.
yyyuck!
I read somewhere else that naphtha gets a better cannabinoid extraction than ethanol/Everclear, but obviously ethanol still does a very good job, and without any carcinogen fears so you can sleep peacefully at night :D so using ethanol instead of naphtha is a no-brainer for me, in more ways than one!
 

0zymurgy

New member
Couldn't those of us without access to 190 proof....just get the 150 proof and run it through a home countertop distiller before using it for extraction? Less water...less extraction of the unwanted parts.

Just make sure you get the New Zealand modified one that produces 92% in one run. Not the standard stock water distiller ...which gets you only 85% ABV.
 

I wood

Well-known member
Couldn't those of us without access to 190 proof....just get the 150 proof and run it through a home countertop distiller before using it for extraction? Less water...less extraction of the unwanted parts.

Just make sure you get the New Zealand modified one that produces 92% in one run. Not the standard stock water distiller ...which gets you only 85% ABV.



Yes, it is a bit of a pain in the ass. Even with a water distiller two or three runs through will get you over 90%,
The still can also be used to recover 70-80% of alcohol used, before evaporating the rest in a different vessel.
 

PDX Dopesmoker

Active member
Is ethanol still the only 'socially acceptable' solvent for tincture dilutions? No one afaik is suggesting orally ingesting even a drop of isopropyl, acetone, or hexane, and of course not 'Naphtha'(Coleman Fuel.) And if anyone thinks ethanol is harmless, swallow a shot glass of 100%, swish it around and savor it before swallowing, I love you, Jesus

Read this & had to look up LD50 for the various listed substances with surprising results

Isopropyl alcohol - LD50 (oral dose in rats) 5045 mg/kg
Acetone - LD50 (oral dose in rats) 5800 mg/kg
Ethanol - LD50 (oral dose in rats) 10600 mg/kg
Hexane - LD50 (oral dose in rats) 28710 mg/kg
 

sadpanda

Member
interesting LD50's, but keep in mind it's only one metric - it doesn't take into account (for example) if it gives you other health complications or carcinogenicity or if it causes blindness etc etc
 

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
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interesting LD50's, but keep in mind it's only one metric - it doesn't take into account (for example) if it gives you other health complications or carcinogenicity or if it causes blindness etc etc

My easy answer for where to start,

"I. INTRODUCTION

This is the companion document for the International Conference on Harmonisation of Technical Requirements for Registration of Pharmaceuticals for Human Use (ICH) guidance for industry Q3C Impurities: Residual Solvents (1997), which makes recommendations as to what amounts of residual solvents are considered safe in pharmaceuticals."

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/Guidances/UCM073395.pdf

And if you keep pushing G.O. Joe will come up with something like this he tossed out a while back... choose your download, the one I choose has the file identified as, "Urben P.G. (ed.)-Bretherick's Handbook of Reactive Chemical Hazards 2 vols set-AP (2006).pdf"

http://golibgen.io/search.php?search_type=title&search_text=Bretherick&submit=Dig+for
 

G.O. Joe

Well-known member
Veteran
Sorry I was just going to say again use the distillation equipment on the naphtha. If that's not totally clean, there are some chemical treatments that will make it so.

I start at toxnet.
 

Pastelero

Active member
Just use Everclear!
Never use Naphta, imho Rick Simpson got his cancer from using this as his favorite solvent!

He started with hemp oil to treat a concussion and the resulting headaches, ringing in the ears and trouble sleeping.
Some may find it interesting that the man who claims hemp oil cures cancer developed skin cancer after using hemp oil for several years.
 
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Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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Read this & had to look up LD50 for the various listed substances with surprising results

Isopropyl alcohol - LD50 (oral dose in rats) 5045 mg/kg
Acetone - LD50 (oral dose in rats) 5800 mg/kg
Ethanol - LD50 (oral dose in rats) 10600 mg/kg
Hexane - LD50 (oral dose in rats) 28710 mg/kg

The issue with Hexane is not its toxicity, but that our liver turns it into 2.5 Hexane dione, which is a carcinogen. Long term studies of chronic exposure to hexane by the printing and shoe repair industry, showed significant effects.
 
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