Should Government Regulate Cannabis Quality?

[elmanito]

The only thing they deserve is the product of their own thought. They have a choice to buy organic, fresh, moldy.

The consumer has the right for good quality marijuana and the grower must meet the standards to ensure that quality.Nobody wants to have mouldy cannabis.If the consumer wants to have organic than the grower must to be certified to meet those organic quality standards and not what you now have in several dispensaries or coffeeshops.

Like i said earlier in this thread as grower you can meet the standards of AHPA as example without any involvement of the government.Standards of the FDA is just a joke.MRL FDA for PCB in fish is 2000 ppb, while Cali Prop 65 MRL is 90 ppb.

In Holland a recent survey of coffee shop Cannabis found half had fungicides on them.

It was not fungicide, but a pesticide Vertimec what they found a lot.

Namaste

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Great post Botanist!

SeniorBuzz: Did you mean to copy paste a new article into this thread? Perhaps you should haves started an new thread on this one?

It was a related article on mmj laws, and I did submit it for a thread, but in the meantime, while waiting for the thread to be approved. I wanted to have the article available for discussion.

why wait for the coming legislation which will soon require testing

why not decide what the growing standards are going to be, and agree to be held to them

the way to deal with this situation is to become pro-active and take charge of your own destiny, rather than have others do it for you.

I think if growers understood their rapidly narrowing options, and the odds against their future, then they could easily decide how to save this for themselves, and save their communities in the process.

Operate it just like a business

Who wants to work at MMJ Plant #1
the world's largest known production-line indoor grow

 

[Botanist]

The consumer has the right for good quality marijuana and the grower must meet the standards to ensure that quality.Nobody wants to have mouldy cannabis.If the consumer wants to have organic than the grower must to be certified to meet those organic quality standards and not what you now have in several dispensaries or coffeeshops.

Like i said earlier in this thread as grower you can meet the standards of AHPA as example without any involvement of the government.Standards of the FDA is just a joke.MRL FDA for PCB in fish is 2000 ppb, while Cali Prop 65 MRL is 90 ppb.
[/img][/url]

No! The consumer has no "right" to good quality bud. The consumer has a right to want good, organic, purple bud or what ever. The industrialist has every right to grow what he wants. If he wants to make money he will grow what the consumer wants. He does not gain permission to grow from the consumer, He does not grow weed for the consumers sake. The grower only has to be certified to meet government standards but he does not live or grow for the government or the consumer.
Government standards seem to have drastic consequences. It gives people an artificial peace of mind. It has raised an entire generation of mindless consumers unwilling to think because they have been told the government will do it for them.

Has the government done a wonderful job thinking for you? All the stamps of approval they have from automobiles to milk, Has this prevented disaster? No, but it has in fact hindered production, raised costs, lowered quality and all for the sake of peace of mind, or lake of consumer mind.

We have done a wonderful job of sacrificing mans ability to live bit by bit.

Government produces all order,
under anarchy there is no government
therefore anarchy is chaos

in Washington there isn't any plan
with feeding david on page sixty four
it must be accidental that the milk man
leaves a bottle at my door

it must be accidental that the butcher
has carcasses arriving at his shop
the very place where, when i need some
meat
i accidentally stop

my life is chaos turned miraculous
i speak a word and people understand
although it must be gibberish since words
are not produced by governmental plan

now law and order, on the other hand
the state provides us for the public good
thats why theres instant justice on demand
and safety in every neighborhood.

this man i never saw before
at 3 am breaks down the door
to tell me my aspirin is lsd
it says right there on the bottle
acetylsaliylic acid
i tell you doctor honestly
it seems like someones after me

i don't think fighting is what im made for
but this lottery ticket i never paid for
sold by a pusher known as sam
has won me a ticket to Vietnam
a twelve months expenses paid tropical
vacation
with a funeral free from a grateful nation
but the doctor says i need therapy
for thinking someone is after me

and then there are things i just can't ignore
like the little man in our bedroom door
says well be in jail by the end of the night
unless we turn over and do it right


doctor doctor come and see
theres really someone after me

then he asks as he rips off the sheet
for our marriage license and tax receipt
says you need a license to shoot at a duck
how come you think its free to ----
who so blind as will not see
the state! the state! is after me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc7oZ9yWqO4

 

[WaterFarmFan]

Most restaurant's kitchens are not open/visible to the customer/public, and as such, there's little in the way of accurate information to be gleaned about what goes on in them -- you can not always tell from the dining area/service area what the kitchen is like or what practices take place in the kitchen. This is the very reason there are health inspectors with the power to enter and inspect the premises -- to do so on the public's behalf because the public can not.

Your analysis is naive -- adhering to proper hygiene practices requires more expense for the owner. It costs more for cleaning supplies, for proper training of staff, for ongoing monitoring of staff, etc. The reason many restaurant's don't adhere to proper practices is because it saves them money. There is always the drive for business to keep overhead costs down and often times the temptation is too great to, say, use a product that should have been thrown out two days ago. It's clear you've never worked in the industry. I spent 10 years in the industry and am very glad to know that there are health inspectors and regulations in place.

I certainly understand the need for food safety, as I put myself through college waiting tables. Some of the nastiest things I have ever seen in my life were at restaurants (mostly fine dining), and they usually involved getting ready for a health inspection. It is naive to think that owners don't game the regulation system.

You are right that people cut corners, but those type tend go out of business rather quickly. Health inspections make people THINK everything is safe, but that is only an illusion. An inspector might be at the restaurant 1/1000 of the time it is open for business. I am not claiming the concept of inspections is bad, but I am trying to get people to realize that regulation is not the end all be all.

There will always be smart and dumb people. When we try to protect the weak in society through overreaching laws, it is the strong and most productive that are hurt the most. There has to be a natural balance because government intervention always screws up the equilibrium...

WFF

 

[Hydrosun]

why wait for the coming legislation which will soon require testing

why not decide what the growing standards are going to be, and agree to be held to them

I'll set my own standards, if by some miracle if miracles my stuff is stuck under the bug mans microscope it will be found to be just the way I like it. If that is not good enough or radiated enough or treated enough or diluted enough for the man, I don't give a shit.

My standards are better than the governments. If the government doesn't regulate home grown tomatoes than they will be no more able to regulate home grown weed.

I'm not naive enough to believe they won't have their nose in warehouse grows that take out business licenses, nor am I naive enough to think that government involvement will improve the quality of weed available.

But before you worry about the quality of product coming from registered warehouses shouldn't you worry about the DEA kicking in their doors?

Anyone who complies prior to federal legalization is just asking to be slammed. And as we see with LA CA trying to comply with local authorities can get your businesses doors shut at whim by the government.

So pass all the rules you want my stuff will never be registered.

Maybe you should concentrate on educating consumers on how they can grade and test their own weed. They make home piss tests, I bet we could get home weed analysis kits if there really was a need to test weed. Which brings me back to the best way in the world to test weed..... off to my bong.

 

[elmanito]

My standards are better than the governments. If the government doesn't regulate home grown tomatoes than they will be no more able to regulate home grown weed.

Just for curiosity, what are your quality standards than???

Namaste

 

[Hydrosun]

Just for curiosity, what are your quality standards than???

I like to make this. So for me if it isn't super premium I don't want to grow or smoke it. The hash bucket gets all the sub-par plants and buds.



So I need top shelf genetics, GH & B'Cuzz line of hydroponic nutes (breaking all organic rules here), a really nice bloom enhancer, flushed for at least a week at the end so the plant ends up sitting in under 100PPM water for a few days before chop, and dried nicely for a few days (humidity controlled if possible).

That is how I garden, and when I smoke weed that isn't my own I like to know the grower; but I let my pallet be the judge.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

It was not fungicide, but a pesticide Vertimec what they found a lot.

I saw that study also, the study I referred to was done earlier.
But anyway the problem is the same, poison on the Cannabis being sold to consumers, and they have no idea.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

No! The consumer has no "right" to good quality bud.
The consumer has a right to want good, organic, purple bud or what ever.
The industrialist has every right to grow what he wants.
If he wants to make money he will grow what the consumer wants. He does not gain permission to grow from the consumer, He does not grow weed for the consumers sake.
The grower only has to be certified to meet government standards but he does not live or grow for the government or the consumer.

The trouble with your type of thinking is it don't fix anything.
It don't lead to legalizing Cannabis so 800,000 arrests a year stop.
It does not prevent spraying Cannabis with poisons to increase profits.
All it does is give homage to your personal ideology, while not changing anything in fact.
I want change, and I am more then willing to trade regulating Cannabis to achieve the goal. Remember there will be no regulation of personal home growing for personal use.
It is the big commercial growers that need regulations, just like beer or wine producers.

-SamS

 

[cateros]

Well you all have to remember for agricultural products they hire the people who know the product as well as it can be known to ensure its safety ,quality and purity so if cannabis is legalized and regulated for safety and quality they are going to have to hire experts in these fields so basically they are going to have to hire long time growers like Jorge Cervantes and Ed rosenthall and there like to administer and staff a division that tests the quality of cannabis .

 

[cateros]

Maybe you should concentrate on educating consumers on how they can grade and test their own weed. They make home piss tests, I bet we could get home weed analysis kits if there really was a need to test weed. Which brings me back to the best way in the world to test weed..... off to my bong.

Actually you can purchase a home cannabis thin layer gas chromatography kit that will judge the level of thc vs other cannabinoids for you .The price I saw listed was 130$ for 10 test kit actually found the link so here it is http://www.whish-seeds.com/content/cannalytics-cannabinoid-test-kit

 

[cateros]

Government has no role in protecting your life. Only a role in protecting you right to life, liberty, property.
!

Actually as the laws of man are based on the laws of god and killing yourself is against gods law this is the reason why people who attempt to commit suicide are arrested by the cops and put into psych wards until the Dr is satisfied.

 

[pinecone]

No! The consumer has no "right" to good quality bud. The consumer has a right to want good, organic, purple bud or what ever. The industrialist has every right to grow what he wants.

This is your own interpretation of the Constitution and this view would not be upheld by a court of law.

There is a pretty famous legal case that involved Brown and Williamson suing the FDA, claiming the FDA doesn't have the right to set its own tobacco regulations. The Supreme Court ruled that the FDA cannot set its own regulations and can only regulate in ways authorized by Congress. Part of the reason for this decision is that the FDA historical philosophy was not to regulate out of the scope of Congressional regulations.

Link to details of case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FDA_v._Brown_&_Williamson_Tobacco_Corp.

The implication with respect to your point is that, with Congressional regulations, the FDA would have a right and indeed an obligation to regulate cannabis. If cannabis is being called "medicine" the FDA has an obligation to regulate and doesn't need Congressional regulations.
__________________

There are massive information problems in the cannabis market. For example, it is is not readily obvious to even the highly informed consumer a whether the product has been treated inappropriately with harmful fungicides or pesticides. In this context, it is probably in the growers best interest engage in inappropriate use of fungicides and pesticides because the consumer can't tell the difference and the grower will receive the same price either way.

Cannabis needs to be regulated.

Pine

 

[pinecone]

Just wanted to drop in and let you guys all know how the Wonderful federal bureaucracy are treating the Amish and there agricultural products.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/features/green/2010/06/epa_leans_on_amish_farmers_in.html
Good thing the nanny state is protecting me from the evil Amish!

Even the flippen Amish are to industrialized for the EPA. What kind of screeching cave people do they look to turn us into?

Do private property rights give the Amish or anyone else the right to pollute in ways that affect public property, public water ways and private property held by others?

If you don't mandate that farmers follow proper regulations with respect to permitting, manure management, and runoff management they are going to continue to pollute at high levels.

Link to PBS Frontline episode about the clean water act and the, the Chesapeake Bay, and the Puget Sound: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/poisonedwaters

One of the points of the episode is that the Chesapeake is being polluted and gravely damaged by run off from chicken farm in the watershed and that this is gravely affecting the quality of the water, the livelihood of fisherman and crabbers, tourism, and recreation. The point: these chicken farmers impose a large cost on everyone else.

Pine

 

[elmanito]

I like to make this. So for me if it isn't super premium I don't want to grow or smoke it. The hash bucket gets all the sub-par plants and buds.



So I need top shelf genetics, GH & B'Cuzz line of hydroponic nutes (breaking all organic rules here), a really nice bloom enhancer, flushed for at least a week at the end so the plant ends up sitting in under 100PPM water for a few days before chop, and dried nicely for a few days (humidity controlled if possible).

That is how I garden, and when I smoke weed that isn't my own I like to know the grower; but I let my pallet be the judge.

What about mycotoxins like Aflatoxin-B1, MRL heavy metals etc.That what i meant with quality standards.If it is for yourself and not for others, sure i agree with you, but when you grow for others you must meet sort of HACCP standards so it doesn't have a negative effect for the people who gonna use it.

Namaste

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Do private property rights give the Amish or anyone else the right to pollute in ways that affect public property, public water ways and private property held by others?

If you don't mandate that farmers follow proper regulations with respect to permitting, manure management, and runoff management they are going to continue to pollute at high levels.

Link to PBS Frontline episode about the clean water act and the, the Chesapeake Bay, and the Puget Sound: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/poisonedwaters

One of the points of the episode is that the Chesapeake is being polluted and gravely damaged by run off from chicken farm in the watershed and that this is gravely affecting the quality of the water, the livelihood of fisherman and crabbers, tourism, and recreation. The point: these chicken farmers impose a large cost on everyone else.

Pine

information of this type doesn't get enough exposure....we are contaminating the planet and ourselves at the same time.

Chicken farms, pig farms, cattle feed pens....some really nasty stuff

along with all of the prescription drugs that are becoming part of our water supply

we can all work to change this

 

[Pythagllio]

They make the Amish put brake lights on their buggies in PA and you know they don't like that.

People are totally strange. They seem to have forgotten that it wasn't a very uncommon thing for someone a couple of hundred years ago to sit down to a meal, and pass away from food poisoning.

But it's a silly argument. It's not like there's any chance that cannabis won't be regulated if we can get it legal, so I'm not sure why we're discussing it anyway. I can't even take seriously anyone who thinks a black market is more beneficial to society than a system of beneficial regulation. All legitimate complaints wrt regulation are specifically complaints about unfair application of regulations. Society is learning, but still has a way to go. But it is absurd in the extreme to think that things would be better if people were left to whatever mischief they can think up.

'Here, have some Avid coated cannabis, no bugs!'
'yeah, it's got a bit of aspergillus in it, but the levels aren't that high!'
'I cooked the fertilizer myself in my makeshift garage lab, absolutely nothing organic involved!'
'I imported the insecticide from Mexico, you know the US won't let you use the good stuff, some crap about not being fit for human consumption. Fuck a bunch of regulations.'

Oh right, that's the world in which I want to be a consumer.

 

[Hydrosun]

The trouble with your type of thinking is it don't fix anything.
It don't lead to legalizing Cannabis so 800,000 arrests a year stop.
It does not prevent spraying Cannabis with poisons to increase profits.
All it does is give homage to your personal ideology, while not changing anything in fact.
I want change, and I am more then willing to trade regulating Cannabis to achieve the goal. Remember there will be no regulation of personal home growing for personal use.
It is the big commercial growers that need regulations, just like beer or wine producers.

-SamS

You are dead wrong about what Botanist suggested. He said we are all free people allowed to grown and smoke as we see fit. NOTHING in his posts suggests that 800,000 arrests per you could continue.

Perhaps you are paying too much attention to your personal ideology and not reading / listening to what others are saying.

Also government regulations ALLOW poison to be sprayed on food, tobacco, and flowers, so it seems like your solution will not achieve the chem free weed you desire.

Leaving home growers alone and focusing on large registered operations is a good test of safety / quality; but I'd put my stuff and my ICmag friends up against the government approved weed any day.

 

[pinecone]

Leaving home growers alone and focusing on large registered operations is a good test of safety / quality; but I'd put my stuff and my ICmag friends up against the government approved weed any day.

Your weed might be v. safe and high quality, but what about less conscientious growers? Should we just trust them?

Home growers who are not selling any of their product should be exempt.

My state is just dealing with the issue of whether dairy producers can sell raw milk and cheese to the public. The raw milk folks lost. Obviously the producers can use the raw milk products - they just can't sell the public. It should be the same for cannabis.

Pine

 

[Hydrosun]

Actually as the laws of man are based on the laws of god and killing yourself is against gods law this is the reason why people who attempt to commit suicide are arrested by the cops and put into psych wards until the Dr is satisfied.

If it were really against GODS law (how funny) why doesn't IT stop someone from killing themselves?

If nature were really based on some cloud riding freak wouldn't it be illegal for Lemmings to kill themselves too? Why for then would a just God allow thousands of lemmings to run off a cliff to their death?

The answer is Natural Law has very little to do with the Judeo-Christain philosophy. Some nations think suicide and honor killings are proper, if there truly was a GODS law wouldn't these nations know of their infractions?

The laws of man are based on the philosophies and personal biases of the men who wrote them. How else can you explain ZERO law regarding cannabis WORLD wide until the last 100 years. Did God suddenly decide this weed was bad.

Come on now there has to be greater truth you can turn to.