Should Government Regulate Cannabis Quality?

[Hydrosun]

Your weed might be v. safe and high quality, but what about less conscientious growers?

Home growers who are not selling any of their product should be exempt.

My state is just dealing with the issue of whether dairy producers can sell raw milk and cheese to the public. The raw milk folks lost. Obviously the producers can use the raw milk products - they just can't sell the public. It should be the same for cannabis.

Pine

No it should be the exact opposite for both weed and dairy. As you mentioned the RAW MILK people lost. The government at the point of a gun has once again interfered with free people WITHOUT any possible harm coming to a third party. Again the government is immoral, not the woman who wants to buy fresh unpasteurized milk, or the farmer willing to produce it.

Land of the Free?

As for the less contentious farmers if they poison you sue them, quit buying their product, and prosecute them for fraud IF they sold their goods fraudulently (i.e. pesticide free, but really loaded with DDT).

 

[Hydrosun]

This is your own interpretation of the Constitution and this view would not be upheld by a court of law.

There is a pretty famous legal case that involved Brown and Williamson suing the FDA, claiming the FDA doesn't have the right to set its own tobacco regulations. The Supreme Court ruled that the FDA cannot set its own regulations and can only regulate in ways authorized by Congress. Part of the reason for this decision is that the FDA historical philosophy was not to regulate out of the scope of Congressional regulations.

Link to details of case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FDA_v._Brown_&_Williamson_Tobacco_Corp.

The implication with respect to your point is that, with Congressional regulations, the FDA would have a right and indeed an obligation to regulate cannabis. If cannabis is being called "medicine" the FDA has an obligation to regulate and doesn't need Congressional regulations.
__________________

There are massive information problems in the cannabis market. For example, it is is not readily obvious to even the highly informed consumer a whether the product has been treated inappropriately with harmful fungicides or pesticides. In this context, it is probably in the growers best interest engage in inappropriate use of fungicides and pesticides because the consumer can't tell the difference and the grower will receive the same price either way.

Cannabis needs to be regulated.

Pine

You are wrong. Until just recently the US Supreme court recognized our freedom to conduct our economic affairs as we saw fit.

The Lochner era is a period in American legal history from roughly 1897 to 1937 in which the Supreme Court of the United States tended to strike down economic regulations mandating certain working conditions or wages, or limiting working hours. The Lochner era coincided roughly with the Second Industrial Revolution and it is possible to think of the actions of the court as mimicking, underwriting and in turn encouraging the economic assumptions-at-large of that era, i.e. laissez-faire economics and classical liberal ideals.

I believe in Botanists interpretation and in freedom for all. I could care less about the silver tongued devils that try to convince you that you are not free to produce as you see fit. They have the might, but have no moral authority. Slavery is against natural law and so is invading the liberties of your neighbor.



PS. The FDA has a many decade history of NOT regulating HERBAL SUPPLEMENTS. My weed is an herbal supplement.

 

[pinecone]

No it should be the exact opposite for both weed and dairy. As you mentioned the RAW MILK people lost. The government at the point of a gun has once again interfered with free people WITHOUT any possible harm coming to a third party.

No you are wrong.

In the case of raw milk and cannabis there are third party concerns.

Just one example - the government pays a most of the health care costs of citizens over the age of 65 through Medicare. If you are unknowingly inhaling or ingesting harmful chemicals for 40 years, and maybe just smoking "safe" cannabis, the expected government expenditures for your future heath care costs are going to be higher.

This, and the information problems, are a strong case for taxing and regulating commercial cannabis.

Pine

 

[Hydrosun]

What about mycotoxins like Aflatoxin-B1, MRL heavy metals etc.That what i meant with quality standards.If it is for yourself and not for others, sure i agree with you, but when you grow for others you must meet sort of HACCP standards so it doesn't have a negative effect for the people who gonna use it.

Well if those bad things you mention exist and harm flowers and herbs they shouldn't be sold for that application. We already have standards and measures for fertilizer and plant food and bug spray. You see agriculture didn't begin with the passing of CA MMJ laws.

The no negative effects standard is impracticable. Weed effects everyone differently and some may be negatively effected (paranoia, dry mouth, loss of concentration) even if the weed is as pure as the Virgin Mary.

Time to re-read Upton Sinclare's "The Jungle" and then ask yourself if the government has removed all safety issues with meat? Let the dumbasses prove they can stop e-coli and the other jobs they are tasked with before adding ANY more regulations.

 

[Hydrosun]

No you are wrong.

In the case of raw milk and cannabis there are third party concerns.

Just one example - the government pays a most of the health care costs of citizens over the age of 65 through Medicare. If you are unknowingly inhaling or ingesting harmful chemicals for 40 years, and maybe just smoking "safe" cannabis, the expected government expenditures for your future heath care costs are going to be higher.

This, and the information problems, are a strong case for taxing and regulating commercial cannabis.

Pine

False arguement. One you didn't mention a third party harmed by the woman drinking milk. TWO because the government steals liberties and creates a collective to steal money from citizens and then do a super piss poor job of allocating health care DOES NOT mean that I am harming a 3rd party by smoking cigs or MJ or drinking beer in my own home.

I don't expect the government to provide me with health care despite the thousands of dollars they haves stolen from me under the guise of Medicare. And their theft doesn't transmute itself into right to control my behavior. I am born free their scheme doesn't change my natural right to do as I please with my body. I can drink the milk, but the fucks threaten to imprison the farmer for selling it to me. You and I have no right to tell the farmer and milk buyer what they should do with their time, money, or diet.

That is the crux of it, we have no right to infringe on others until and unless they harm a third party in the community.

 

[headband 707]

This is going to be a real slippery slop you watch!!!!!

This is going to be a real slippery slop you watch!!!!!

If the Gov gets their dirty paws on this we will regret that .. Not that I'm happy with what Cali is doing now you guys should knock it off !!!!
BUT if the Gov does this they will regulate this right up our butts and we will really regret that..
They will go on and on about our safety and how they have to spend extra money on this that and the other just like they do now and who will pay for that?? lol
After all this time they want ppl to trust them lol, not bloody likely.. Unfortunately I can't see it going any other way.. If we don't then what will happen to all the ppl that use bud now what are they going to do ? How can they stop this medicine? why are they still trying to with our money? This is our tax dollars hard at work here lol..
When you look at the real price of just one carton of cigarettes here in Canada before Tax it's $7.00 after the tax now I think they cost somthing like $48.00 I don't know I don't smoke cigs.. but thats the Govs taxes lol lol lol... peace out Headband707

 

[KarmasWheele]

hyperposting hydrosun......some of what all of you say is right on........
But fact is fact......The only way to get freedom of cannabis and relief of the opression cloaking it...Is to have it regulated and controled......The only way to have it be accepted as medicine......regulated......
not to mention it would stimulate our economy and create a whole new industy....where stoners would be able to actually make a decent living around something they love.....instead of having to do illegal activity or slinging hotdogs on the corner......Clearly the way to change is embracing goverment intrest......
keep your friends close keep your enime's closer........

 

[Hydrosun]

I can't even take seriously anyone who thinks a black market is more beneficial to society than a system of beneficial regulation.

Well I respect you as a grower and member of ICmag, but my life history has taught me that there is NO SUCH THING AS BENEFICIAL GOVERNMENT REGULATION.

I see the government as much more evil than the rest of this community, I don't think a single governmental action is conducted for the benefit of the governed. Despite Mr. Lincolns Gettysburg address, "Government of for and by the people" does seem to have PERISHED from this earth.

Government doesn't regulate the THOUSANDS of additives used in tobacco, and THOUSANDS die each year from tobacco. So if BENEFICIAL government regulation actually existed shouldn't that form of smoke get "Benefited" first?

 

[Hydrosun]

hyperposting hydrosun......some of what all of you say is right on........
But fact is fact......The only way to get freedom of cannabis and relief of the opression cloaking it...Is to have it regulated and controled......The only way to have it be accepted as medicine......regulated......
not to mention it would stimulate our economy and create a whole new industy....where stoners would be able to actually make a decent living around something they love.....instead of having to do illegal activity or slinging hotdogs on the corner......Clearly the way to change is embracing goverment intrest......
keep your friends close keep your enime's closer........

It is just a weed. The GVT doesn't care about the crab grass of dandelions in my yard, why should they care about MJ weed.

I don't want this accepted as a medicine, I want it ignored like ALL other forms of plant life.

I don't want the economy stimulated. I want all humans left free to engage in contract as they see fit. I am quite happy with an economy consisting only on free men producing as they see fit.

I see the only way to change and freedom is RESISTING government intrusion into peoples lives. I will not be embracing the gvt. and if the rest of us would tell them to stay the hell out of our gardens and stash boxes your stoner friend could quit selling hot dogs.

 

[pinecone]

You are wrong. Until just recently the US Supreme court recognized our freedom to conduct our economic affairs as we saw fit.

Yeah - well that is not the current court and the law of the land or the present reality. I wasn't saying things weren't done differently in the past, just that the current law allows EPA regulations and
FDA regulations on food and medicine, and other FDA regulations with Congressional approval.

Pine

 

[Hydrosun]

And I just want us to get back to the freedoms we have lost. I don't think the current reality is moral.

 

[pinecone]

I don't think the current reality is moral

Yeah - but like or not it is the reality. The Supreme Court is not likely to intervene in any of these areas and so there is a legal right for Fed agencies to regulate the way they have been.

Pine

 

[KarmasWheele]

I get your point man.....believe me but it's NOT about what YOU want....it's about whats best.......
tough shit about what you want but like it or not no one is going to just ignore WEED.....if dandilions got ya buzzed and was a whole new way to stimulate economic growth then gov...would be all over it.....
Anyone who dose not support economic growth is Im sorry just dim....better economy = better quality of life for all............

 

[ghostly]

testing?
absolutely!

government testing?
hell fuck no! these guys cant regulate elections fairly, BP, their own DEA, or anything else in a proper manor (come to think of it, our government is pretty good and broken, imo). let the private sector provide testing services to anyone who wants to test.

 

[Hydrosun]

Government intervention does not equal growth in economies or free thought. I understand as pinecone and you are both saying the current reality is the US Gvt. will do what the hell it wants because the US Supreme Courts current interpretation of the commerce clause allows them to do it.

I think the current fed nazis jackbooting into homes, businesses, and individual decisions is wrong. A better economy is a free economy, a controlled economy is not better (unless you are one of the elites controlling). Please don't believe that "Better for All" is in any way connected to collectivism or the government.

I certainly am dim as in a single candle in a sea of collectivists, but every once in a while I see another glimmer of light such as botanist and others like you here on ICmag that discuss and question.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Is it all feasible to think you could have a large indoor, production-line, grow that is bug and disease free without the use of chemicals

 

[pinecone]

Is it all feasible to think you could have a large indoor, production-line, grow that is bug and disease free without the use of chemicals

Of course. But I doubt that the market would provide incentives to do so. Because it is difficult for buyers to tell the difference between the chemically laced bud and the chemically free bud, growers get the same price for good looking chemical laced bud that they do for bud that is chemically free.

Organic labeling and certification would help growers organic cannabis get a higher price for their product, but this involves certification and regulation.

Pine

 

[WaterFarmFan]

Anyone who dose not support economic growth is Im sorry just dim....better economy = better quality of life for all............

This is the bankrupt mantra of the Progressive - That progress, of any kind, is better if it serves the greater good. Our fractional banking system is SUCH a grotesque lie, with more printing presses added daily. You can blow sunshine up your ass, but that does not mean storm clouds aren't gathering like nothing seen on earth before (Great Depression what???)...

WFF

 

[Botanist]

Actually as the laws of man are based on the laws of god and killing yourself is against gods law this is the reason why people who attempt to commit suicide are arrested by the cops and put into psych wards until the Dr is satisfied.

The law, was based off of a philosophy which holds as its foundation that you own your life.

When they spoke of nature and natures God, what the founders where referring to was the recognition of reality. Whether reality was a fluke happening or created by God. what they recognized was that the laws of physics are not to be broken and reason was the only way to identify them.

Justice is the recognition of what is true, what exists and the "law" was based on objective standards of rights and truth. Yes the world has left the law. The law being the recognition of justice and justice being the recognition of what is true. Not the relative truth crap being regurgitated in school and media today, but the truth that cannot be escaped from. The truth that you cannot consume yourself into prosperity, the truth that man must conquer nature or adapt to it to survive. and no amount of guns or tears will buy you an escape from this fact.

Yes man can leave the rule of rational law that recognizes justice but they cannot escape justice. Justice is what wipes out the nation that refuses to except the truth. Justice is why America is in massive debt. Justice is why Greece is burning. And justice is why the regulation of marijuana will fail.

A law the dose not hold mans natural rights above all, is a law that has left justice. Man must have rights in order to properly survive. Without them the wealth of wiser generations will slowly be dwindled away till the parasite of the state dies and man is once again in need of new government. Government that will not drain his life but leave him free to live, produce, and trade within the limits of his own intellect. Only preventing him from using force to enslave the minds of others. Such as you and many others are asking for the government guns to enslave.


check this video out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8PPUZms3aQ&feature=related

 

[SeniorBuzz]

This is the bankrupt mantra of the Progressive - That progress, of any kind, is better if it serves the greater good. Our fractional banking system is SUCH a grotesque lie, with more printing presses added daily. You can blow sunshine up your ass, but that does not mean storm clouds aren't gathering like nothing seen on earth before (Great Depression what???)...

WFF

To say things aren't good is a real understatement.

I certainly hope things change direction because it isn't looking good at all.

I'm not worried about me, but I am worried about everyone else.