Republicans and marijuana

[Babbabud]

The topic is Republicans and MJ. If we continue to make it conservative against liberal and not about MJ then i could see this large thread being closed. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. Lets see if we can work MJ back into this convo.
thanks

 

[Texicannibus]

I was raised to be independent and self reliant, too.

I was also raised to be willing to help those who need help.
I was raised to look at my neighbor with empathy, not resentment or suspicion.

Governments making laws restricting the activities of it's citizenry is as old a reality as the idea civilization itself... You act like we used to be free and not we're not. The US hasn't ever been free according to your standards.

Because you see handouts as the only way to help people does not make it true. I believe in helping people up. I believe in a sense of community. If you make it comfortable for the poor then why would they strive to become better off.

freedom is always a trade off for security. I think my and your freedom ends when it comes in conflict with another persons. Thats called libertarianism. I think if you want to kill yourself that should be just fine.. its your body your life...

Basic understanding of rights (natural rights) is required to understand my political philosophy. Even though Im not religious I believe that nobody can give or take away rights.

 

[Texicannibus]

The topic is Republicans and MJ. If we continue to make it conservative against liberal and not about MJ then i could see this large thread being closed. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. Lets see if we can work MJ back into this convo.
thanks

I agree I apoligize if Ive pulled this thread off the rails. I think the republicans stand for religion much more than conservatism. I stated this earlier just want to make it clear. They take marching orders from the right(religious) instead of sticking to there supposed political stances (small govt). The parties both of them are a joke each are going the same direction granted to different places...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I see nothing as the only way to do anything, ever.

There is always more than one way to skin a cat. Sometimes people just need a little help. I know people who work their ass off 70 hours a week and can barely keep their family fed. Some people aren't in a position to be able to supplement their income growing cannabis.

Distrust and caution are the parents of security... They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security... He that's secure is not safe. -- Ben franklin

I agree that the answer lies not in trusting a party blindly, but I also maintain that on the whole, legal cannabis is not a freedom republicans are likely to grant.

 

[Texicannibus]

Thats one of my favorite quotes , the founding fathers was truely brilliant although flawed (we all are). Sorry I dont buy the 'work hard and barely make it' line. Where there is a will there is a way is what I say. I dont supplement my income by growing cannabis I grow for myself and friends/family (dont sell). I run a small business and it stays as successful as Id like it to be. People go through hard times and those hard times harden us into who we are. Ive hit bottom and climbed my way back up. It made me a better person.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

Of course all this is IMO


There is a division in the Republican Party..the neocons and the Ron Pauls. Most of us here would prolly stray towards the Ron Paul side. Real limited government, real liberty, really following the constitution....

true, cant lump all red into one side. republicans are made up of super right wing fanatics, ultra conservatives, and a bunch of people who just want states rights and hate liberals....

i prefer to call myself libertarian but since i hate the Dems so much i have to vote republican...

also not everyone is for the legalization of weed especially those who make a living in the black market..

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Cannabis is not a party issue. Now, many may want you to feel that the Democrats own it, but that is far from the truth. The truth is that no political party has adopted cannabis.
It is not a party line thing anyway...no matter how some may want it to be. It is a personal thing that goes past party affiliations. That is the part that I think is hard for may to understand.
Many here want to throw stones at the republicans for us not having freedom with cannabis, thing is... it is not a party, but a societal taboo that has to be overcome. A taboo that belongs to no political party.

The TEA Party is not a formal party at all. Many may not even know that the thing stands for Taxed Enough Already. And for the information of some, on average about 20% of TEA Party affiliates identify themselves as registered Democrats.

Freedom is what it is all about, and freedom is the only thing that will allow people to be people, instead of state controlled and owned subjects.
Maybe there are more republican politicians than democrat that have fought the fight, but I dare anyone to put up a democrat as a champion of the cause. There are no champions of the cause in Washington right now. So, play the blame game all you want to, you are helping nothing by pointing out political lines in the sand that simply don't exist.

And IME, we better damn well hope it isn't this administration that legalizes pot, because they will do nothing but tax the fuck out of it...and will control it as they want to control everything else in out daily lives. Before you know it the gene pool will be completely fucked up by the Gov.
But then maybe folks have more faith in the Govt that I do and could point out a government controlled entity that is ran well, well funded, and truly helps people? Welfare, medicade and medicare? The Post office? Hmmm...wait, they run the IRS pretty well, yes?

If it is freedom you champion, then the conservative stripe is the one to wear no matter the party.
If it is government control you crave, keep your X's in the Democrat squares.
Only those in denial or drunk on the kool-aid can disagree with this.
I personally am a bit sick of being controlled by others, but maybe you democrats enjoy it?
Hell, you must enjoy it...you back everything they do no matter what...even if it is blatantly ignorant with historical proof of it...you back it up because you have chosen sides. And I also suspect many back up this current admin because they simply don't know better. I won't call these people stupid, just tremendously ignorant.

 

[stink.whistler]

...

Maybe there are more republican politicians than democrat that have fought the fight, but I dare anyone to put up a democrat as a champion of the cause. There are no champions of the cause in Washington right now. So, play the blame game all you want to, you are helping nothing by pointing out political lines in the sand that simply don't exist.

...

It took a Democratic majority congress & Democratic President to finally allow Medical MJ in DC, even though the people there had voted it in years ago.

Sure, many/most Democrats are as lame as Republicans on any MJ related issue - but it almost always seems to be Democrats that actually get anything positive done on the MJ issue.

 

[facelift]

I'm voting republican in the Governors race this November even though the democrat said he thinks people should have access to all medicines to ease pain and suffering, (paraphrase), while the Republican candidate is opposed to MMJ laws.

We have a serious corruption problem in Illinois and it's emitting from the democrats. While electing a republican will only put a new brand of corruption into the state house, the present cycle would come to an end. A cycle that includes the selling of a senate seat.

Most recently, the democratic central committee is handpicking a candidate for Lt. Governor. This is being done because the Governor forced or encouraged the winner of the Lt. Governor primary to back down because he was damaged goods and was in the governors way to election.

I'm upset because there was and still is plenty of time to have a special election to allow the people to once again choose who they want as candidate for Lt. Governor. So my vote for the anti MMJ candidate is more about cleaning up the current state of affairs than to stop the rally for MMJ.

As for me, I'm an independent conservative and an anti-socialist. I'll vote for players from both major parties, and even a few green party candidates.

Yes. I am a Palin fan...

 

[hoosierdaddy]

More often than not bills in congress are voted against for reasons other than the title of the legislation.
How many times have we seen a politicians commercial advertising the fact that their opponent voted against something...like "the children"? Take for example a bill proposed to provide extended care and services to disadvantaged children in inner cities. Sounds like one that if fought against would make one look like a pretty mean person who doesn't care about poor kids. But when the facts are know, it may be that piece of legislation carried several other provisions and earmarked funds that would also go into law, but had absolutely NOTHING to do with providing services to kids. And it just may be that the bill would be voted down simply because of the extraneous provisions and baggage it carries.
But the facts of why the bill was voted against won't be told by the political opposition, but rather they will scream how that nasty mean person voted against helping the children.

The facts do not matter to partisans and their lemmings.


EDIT
You know I bet lots that there has been legislation put together knowing full well it wasn't going to be passed by design. Craft a bill with a heart string pull title...and fill it full of chaff and fat spending on something else...knowing full well that it won't pass a vote. That way you can put together politican adds attacking your opponent in the upcoming election.
That would be tactics straight out of the Saul Alinsky shaped minds of those in power at the moment.

Many should take the time to read some of Alinsky's shit. Very enlightening.
I suggest "Rules for Radicals". It will give us all insight into why head and disco make the arguments they do. They are simply following the Alinsky model.

 

[stink.whistler]

The facts do not matter to partisans and their lemmings.

Yep. Quite true.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

LMAO... so you don't believe there is a demographic that works their ass off and barely eeek by??

You should really get out more.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I know that some folks may work their ass off and get very little pay for it. But we have to first look at that person has the opportunity to better themselves, or are they simply stuck where they are and being kept down by someone?
Just what keeps the hard worker from moving on to a better paying job? In my experience, the hard workers DO get advancements and better deals. Those that do not advance do so for many reasons, but it has nothing to do with their opportunities.
You cannot show me where the opportunities do not exist in this nation.

Many do their jobs, but as far as working their asses off...that is a subjective thing. I guarantee you that the work I do would be so out of the question for most people that they wouldn't even consider trying it, let alone be one of the harder workers. Nor would that majority even have the skills to give it a try. Many find it "working their asses off" just to show up to work. Others actually do work harder than their counterparts, and those people are normally advanced in some fashion or another.
If not, there is nothing that says you have to stay there...in fact you are in the wrong profession if there are no advancement opportunities and you want to advance.
Many will sit back and bitch about this sort of thing their whole career, but they won't get off their fat asses and make something else happen.

Many have no fucking clue what hard work is, and have NEVER worked their ass off.
I would say the majority of those able bodied folks who get assistance from the govt do not and or don't want to work their asses off.
Even people that do work their asses off at their job, will find that the next job is so demanding that they couldn't even attempt it.
Most times a persons job is a direct reflection of what they are ready to put out.

Which job is it that they make you stay at? You know...the one that you cannot leave or advance? The one that keeps you stuck there?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Isn't unemployment awfully high right now?
Do you really think people can support themselves and their families with a minimum wage which is below the poverty line?

By working their asses off... I mean such as laying sod in 100 degree summer heat, crawling through the shit in the crawlspace underneath someone's rotten bathroom plumbing, tying rebar, and the like... I am not refering to lazy asses who stand around drawing time and watching others work.

You act as though everyone who wants a better job can just go get one... Seems like a large disconnection from the real world.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Well, the real world of today is a bit out of sync right now. I was told that we would not see more than a national average of 8%, but it looks like that has been blown out of the water long ago.
And the current admin is hampering employment by the policies they are trying to enact.
See, you can't keep going to the well for free...it will run out eventually.
And what the left wants to do is head back to the well of the wealthy business owners to satisfy their socialistic programs. What the left fails to understand..over and over again...is that employment of us all is tied to the success of the employers. You hamper their ability to make money, and the first to see the consequences are the bottom tier people.
Just like the mandate for a minimum wage. It is bullshit. It hampers employers from hiring according to the free market, and causes them to hire less people just to pay others a measly bit more. The business man knows who he can hire and what they will work for, and the government needs to realize that they do far more harm than good by getting involved. They ignore the facts that are right in front of them, and have lemmings to continue the fight. Lemmings that surely don't understand economics and the free market system. OR...perhaps these folks do indeed understand the free market, but their motivation is far from helping the free market subsist? Perhaps the real motivation of these leftists is to see the fall of the free market and a government controlled state put in place?

No matter their motivations, they are going against sound economic principles and are causing far more harm than good.

And yes head, a person CAN go out and get a better job than he has. There is no question about that at all and there isn't one thing you can bring to the table that could prove otherwise. It is just that simple. I think YOU need to get off the platitudes and start seeing the real world for what it is. Also, you should really do yourself a favor and study up on economics 101. You and the majority of the left obviously know fuck all about it.

You know...if we were to put our fiscally responsible hats on...we would cut government spending by 50% for two full years. And there would be no additional spending or bills passed until our debt and our currency became more sound. At that juncture (2 years passes by like it was nothing) the world would see us as the economically sound superpower that we can be, and the money would come to us in a whirlwind. Investors from all over the world are looking for a sound place for their money, and most want it to be the US simply due to our track record when things are favorable for business here.
Thing is...the world looks at us and sees Obama and the socialists moving in and trying to ruing the free market...and they will have no motivations at all to re-invest in US held concerns.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

what a pantload of a post.

I bring to the table the dozens of people I know of personally who are unable to find work in their field or stuck in the job they have because there is no better opportunity available.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

The free market is to blame for their inability to find work or to advance at their job.
And the free market responds to forces that work both for it and against it. At present, the Govt. is placing forces on the market that are not friendly to business growth and as a result, employment also responds accordingly.

This is a perfect example of how the marketplace responds to stimulus..both of the positive and of the negative sorts.
Lessen the constraints on business, and legislate with a business friendly mindset, and the employment numbers will rise as well as the overall health of our nation. It has been proven time and time again it works. It has also been proven time and again how legislating against the free market increases unemployment and hampers the overall health of our nation.
Show me ONE example of a economically successful nation that uses the Keynsian form of economic model, and I will show you a nation of people that are not free and exist only for the state. Problem is...when the people are not free, and the state rules...there is no success. And you can't show otherwise.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

If you think the high unemployment right now is a result of anything other than a cascading effect resulting from banking deregulation, then you need to do more homework. There may have been other factors since then but the deregulation in the financial sector was the "primum movens" of the financial crisis and economic downturn.

Unrestricted growth leads to a bubble that has to pop.


Seems like you might be stuck in trickle down reaganomics?

I absolutely agree that business must be successful in order for the rest of us to be successful... but when the average CEO makes 100X what the average employee makes surely you admit there is some disparity. Surely you must realize that Prosperous employees buy more goods and services and help make business more profitable.

The people actually building and maintaining the infrastructure and producing goods and services only deserve a minute fraction of the compensation that the manager or accountant make?

 

[SpasticGramps]

There may have been other factors since then but the deregulation in the financial sector was the "primum movens" of the financial crisis and economic downturn.

Unrestricted growth leads to a bubble that has to pop.

#1 cause without a doubt. We were totally sold out to the FED (ie Wall Street, they are ONE entity). We've let Wall Street create a black market that only a few people have real access too. It's no different from criminal gangs in the drug black market. Why we would expect anything other than a criminal monetary policy designed to exploit the people at every turn? What do they care? They are above the law.

The deregulation has been going on for decades now. Both parties in power are complicit.

They want to put Regan on the $50 bill.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Da gipper on a fitty, who woulda thunk? Makes me wanna barf too.