Old School White Widow

[RoyalFlush]

Afghani, Pakistani, Moroccan and most of the other legendary hash types were/are made with screens and it would be real hard to find seeds in those but hand rubbed would be the only technique where it would be possible. I think the hard part (with the Ingemar story) is to believe that he found both South American (Brazilian) and Indian seeds in hand rubbed hash. He used to state on his “white widow web” that very linage for the Widow. He also said he grew it with mango trees and it had a mango flavor due to that fact. He also said he grew and bred outdoors. Does mango trees do well in Holland?

I think the problem with the MrNice side of the story is that things changed. It's not that hard to see why it could but they seem to still say everything is done the “exact same way”. I have not grown the modern Black Widow so I can't say for sure but the Great White Shark and the Shark Shock won't show the same expressions in smell, flavor and high. Even the description has changed on it where it used to be Super Skunk x White Widow in the 90s and now at MrNice it's Widow x Skunk.

I had the luck of getting gifted some really old seeds in 2014 and tried to germinate them but the only one that would still grow (not frozen all those years) was this lone Great White Shark seed from Greenhouse 1997. it was very different from the Shark Shock of 2011 which I grew in 2014 along that lone GWS. There was nothing of the old Super Skunk and nothing from the old Widow in those new SS seeds. I am not saying it was not good weed but it was smooth, earthy and pretty bland to the boring side where the old seed was really loud in both smell and flavor. Acrid and rancid with huge resin heads and the effect was very akin to the old Super Skunk with a warm heavy stone. The flavor was a mix of the Super Skunk and Widow with a kind of stickiness to the smell. Nothing sweet at all. The high was also quite powerful where the new version (4 different females) were all pretty dull.

I can't really say that Shantibaba says that there were any clones before the seed version but it's a bit odd to talk about it like that though. If it was in fact from his seeds I bet he would have said so, I would. But he keeps the door open for a whole other version of Widow it seems. Hard to tell, he's not really being very specific or precise using “sort of thing” and “stuff” to yada-yada over bits of the stories he tells.

Very informative, thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[MoS]

Wite Widow is a classic no doubt, used it for years as my bedtime smoke, heavy dense flavoured smoke that puts you out like a light, if the pheno is the indica leaning one of course...

 

[Cvh]

Can somebody show me a picture of handrubbed charas with seeds in them?
I can't find any. I just want to see a picture of it to know if it can exist or not.

 

[Cvh]

So Ingemar now found 2 seed in the hand rubbed hash and breed stabilized it for 6 years but has only a clone only plant yep very believable

That's what he claims. He also writes on his website that his Ingemar's White Widow is a Brazilian X South Indian.

So he must have also gotten some handrubbed hashish from Brazil too then.
I never knew Brazil made and exported handrubbed hashish and not only that but with seeds in them.

Link to the White Widow from Ingemar sold under his label the DeSjamaan.
It clearly says on his listing: Brazilian X South Indian

https://sjamaan.com/en/white-widow-de-sjamaan-cannabis-seeds.html

 

[funkyhorse]

Hi there
I understand Fighting Buddha is burmese sativa but it seems to lean to blueberry according to Chimera
How is fighting buddha related to White widow?

PS

If you want to have fun with Brazilian genes try some of Chimera's fighting buddha offerings....

That will also help everyone find another piece of the puzzle that is WW


Blueberry x Brazilian will have ya happy laughing, and staring out your key-hole at the same time (or these days on your iphone security cameras lol).

Fighting Buddah (Burmese Sativa x DJ Short Blueberry) 55-65 days

A classic example is Chimera's Fighting Buddha. This Burmese cross has heavy Blue line traits(foxtailing, purple stem...)." - Red from Legends Seeds
The pollen inputs from DJ were selected by me from a set of plants DJ chose from the selection run that pre-dated the TBB, F13, GK, etc releases. These inputs came as cuttings, not pollen.
The male known as B130 was but one of the plants who contributed pollen for the Chimera/DJ Short joint projects.
I did make an S1 generation from B130. None of the plant from this generation have been used for any seed release.
I hope that clarifies,
-Chimera
There were more B130 plants in the room than any other pollen donor. If I had to estimate I'd say that %70 of the seeds fom this batch were from B130 pollen. Other pollen donors included the B133 mother of Old Time Moonshine, B25 (the mother of grape krush) and B144(?) (the mother of TBB). I'd have to dig up my notes to see which other plants contributed pollen.

-Chimera

 

[Cvh]

Lets see, Ingemar had his cut way back in 1987, which he named it *Arnhem’s Wonder*(1989 High Life Cup champion) at the time, Shanti didn't create his version until the 90's.

Sooo did Shanti also invent a time machine to go back to 1987 and give Ingemar a WW cut?

Can you point me to link a link where this Arnhem's Wonder is the High Life Cup Champion in 1989? (I can't seem to find it). Thank you.

Also if possible a link to some info about this strain and it's lineage?

 

[RoyalFlush]

Can you point me to link a link where this Arnhem's Wonder is the High Life Cup Champion in 1989? Thank you. (I can't seem to find it).

Very difficult to find, since some of it didn't go on record.

Also if possible a link to some info about this strain and it's lineage?

Yea, just watch the video with shanti, he could somewhat explain it to you if you're capable of critical thinking.

TheDarkStorm is from that part of the world, maybe he could share his thoughts on it.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Hi there
I understand Fighting Buddha is burmese sativa but it seems to lean to blueberry according to Chimera
How is fighting buddha related to White widow?

This was my mistake and edited for no further confusions. I thought I had remembered it being brazillian been 10 or so years since I popped it and it was around same time I did GHS MNS and FD's widows.

 

[HalfArsedFarmer]

My 2 cents.


The Dutch, Ingmar, Henk of DP & luk of Paradise will tell you Ingmar had WW before Shanti did.


They maybe be correct in saying he had something called this.
The WW that won the cups in the 90's was from GHS.



I grew out packets of De Sjamaaan seeds as I got a deal of bulk due to them not selling in a buddies shop along with a second seed banks stock called tiki seeds. I've also grown out Dp's version & the paradise version too looking for that pungent baby puke pheno that made you go weak...



I grew out 100's of these widows & widow crosses and there was nothing like the weed that was bought back from the time at the time WW was kicking ass & taking names.


I'm still to find that girl to this day although I did buy some Nirvana Black widow as they seem to have hooked up with Shanti on this if I take whats on their web site as what I think it means.

They're also half the price of buying them from Shanti which I find strange but this is the only other seed bank to call it BW now not WW, add to this they are only in reg form which isn't something Nirvana do anymore like most banks its fems or fuck off...


In conclusion I don't care who had a plant called what first, the one that fucked us all up was from the GH & Shanti was their breeder.

 

[star crash]

...

 

[Cvh]

Very difficult to find, since some of it didn't go on record.



Yea, just watch the video with shanti, he could somewhat explain it to you if you're capable of critical thinking.

TheDarkStorm is from that part of the world, maybe he could share his thoughts on it.

From which minute does Shanti starts talking about this Arnhem's Wonder? Could you also provide some more info about the cups info and other info about this strain you were talking about? Can you back up your post, or not?

You mean my part of the part of the world? I'm here, and always was. Great to know TheDarkStorm is from the same region as me.
I hope you are as well and not just posting from across the pond...

 

[texasjack]

In all honesty i have never seen a seed or parts of a seed in any hash i smoked.I never got more than a few oz of hash at a time but a mate did he got lots never heard of seed in hash.

Hand rubbed hash would crush any seed that made its way to the persons hand that processes of hash making is not going to give you viable seed at best you may see parts of what was once a seed .

Back in the day you could always find a few seeds in kilos of hand rubbed hash

"Even the traditionally hand-rubbed hashish is now produced to achieve quantity rather than quality. It takes one day to a careful hashish rubber to produce half a tola (about 5 grams) of the very best quality charas or 10 grams of high-quality charas but a day of hasty and heavy hand-rubbing can deliver up to 50 grams of low-quality charas with seeds full of vegetal debris."


Finger hash or Indian charas
Finger hash is one of the oldest ways to make hash, and it requires no technology whatsoever. Our ancestors were making finger hash, especially in India, long before we had any inkling of solvents or solventless or blasting!

Finger hash is made by rubbing fresh buds between the thumbs or between the palms of the hand. After some laborious rubbing, the oily, THC-rich coating of marijuana buds collects on the palms. It is then scraped off. And when I say laborious, I really mean it. I was rubbing some charas with some ladies in India. After four hours, they were hosting at least three grams of hash on their fingers, while I was scraping off a lousy gram.

It is usually dark green in colour, almost black, and has a very squidgy texture. In colder temperatures, it can solidify and become less soft to touch. You should not find any seeds or plant material inside a good quality finger hash.

 

[mexweed]

the BOEL didn't find the seeds for the afghani in the hash, they either got them from the Tokhi brothers or they got some of the weed the hash was being made from and it was seeded

 

[RoyalFlush]

My 2 cents.


The Dutch, Ingmar, Henk of DP & luk of Paradise will tell you Ingmar had WW before Shanti did.


They maybe be correct in saying he had something called this.
The WW that won the cups in the 90's was from GHS.



I grew out packets of De Sjamaaan seeds as I got a deal of bulk due to them not selling in a buddies shop along with a second seed banks stock called tiki seeds. I've also grown out Dp's version & the paradise version too looking for that pungent baby puke pheno that made you go weak...



I grew out 100's of these widows & widow crosses and there was nothing like the weed that was bought back from the time at the time WW was kicking ass & taking names.


I'm still to find that girl to this day although I did buy some Nirvana Black widow as they seem to have hooked up with Shanti on this if I take whats on their web site as what I think it means.

They're also half the price of buying them from Shanti which I find strange but this is the only other seed bank to call it BW now not WW, add to this they are only in reg form which isn't something Nirvana do anymore like most banks its fems or fuck off...


In conclusion I don't care who had a plant called what first, the one that fucked us all up was from the GH & Shanti was their breeder.

Exactly.
Ingemar has his version and Shanti has his.
Early GHS Shanti version is the one everone is looking for.

 

[RoyalFlush]

From which minute does Shanti starts talking about this Arnhem's Wonder? Could you also provide some more info about the cups info and other info about this strain you were talking about? Can you back up your post, or not?

You mean my part of the part of the world? I'm here, and always was. Great to know TheDarkStorm is from the same region as me.
I hope you are as well and not just posting from across the pond...

Nothing wrong from being across the pond. The internet is a powerful tool, heck I could read your Local news, find out exactly where you live, where you work, ect.. all online from this side of the planet (not that I will do that).

Shanti states Ingemar won a cup with his (Ingemar) version of white widow unders the name Arnhem's wonder. It's pretty hard to find HL info but Shanti confirmed it's existence. Now CVH I get a feeling that you somehow think these strains are the same, when all along I've been saying their not, there could be a possibility that shanti bx Ingemar's clone and made it better but that would be pure speculation with no hard evidence.

Arnhem's wonder cut = Ingemar White Widow version
Original Green House Seed White Widow = Shanti Version

 

[texasjack]

the BOEL didn't find the seeds for the afghani in the hash, they either got them from the Tokhi brothers or they got some of the weed the hash was being made from and it was seeded

Correct. BOEL brought in the hash etc. Some were friends of classics. He talks about them on his classic seeds thread somewhere on here.

When classic got outa nam all he did was surf the world and collect seeds...he rub shoulders w those guys many times. do a search on here you can probably find it.

The seeds i know that came outa kilos of hash per classic seeds were in Hawaii. they were growing fields of Afghani from seeds came outa black hash. Some surfers from cali brought in a boat load of killer mex. They planted those mex seeds in w the afghanis and that was Maui Wowie.

Classic seeds Afghooie - Afghani from hash seeds x Maui Wowie. I have some Afghooies going now.

Classic might be back on the forum in the future you should talk to him about BOEL he has some cool stories. he said some of the stuff in the book is wrong.

He had a stroke but is finally recovering. He is making seeds as we speak. NL#1,Romulan,Korean Skunk...some others i forget what all he said.

 

[RoyalFlush]

Correct. BOEL brought in the hash etc. Some were friends of classics. He talks about them on his classic seeds thread somewhere on here.

When classic got outa nam all he did was surf the world and collect seeds...he rub shoulders w those guys many times. do a search on here you can probably find it.

The seeds i know that came outa kilos of hash per classic seeds were in Hawaii. they were growing fields of Afghani from seeds came outa black hash. Some surfers from cali brought in a boat load of killer mex. They planted those mex seeds in w the afghanis and that was Maui Wowie.

Classic seeds Afghooie - Afghani from hash seeds x Maui Wowie. I have some Afghooies going now.

Classic might be back on the forum in the future you should talk to him about BOEL he has some cool stories. he said some of the stuff in the book is wrong.

He had a stroke but is finally recovering. He is making seeds as we speak. NL#1,Romulan,Korean Skunk...some others i forget what all he said.

I would be more interested if he crossed that NL#1 to the Original PNW Hashplant like Nevil did.

Moe how are your WW's doing?

 

[Cvh]

I think the hard part (with the Ingemar story) is to believe that he found both South American (Brazilian) and Indian seeds in hand rubbed hash. He used to state on his “white widow web” that very linage for the Widow. He also said he grew it with mango trees and it had a mango flavor due to that fact. He also said he grew and bred outdoors. Does mango trees do well in Holland?

Mango trees don't grow here.

And of course if you grow weed next to mango trees it takes up the mango fruit scent.
Or was it not? I forgot. Lol.

 

[texasjack]

I would be more interested if he crossed that NL#1 to the Original PNW Hashplant like Nevil did.

Moe how are your WW's doing?

I have classics NL#1 x G13 but not PNW HP.

Kagyu made a buncha crosses w classics NL#1. I think he did 1 cross w HP? Check coastal seeds he might still have some for sale.He is a good guy. I sent him a cut of NL#1 x G13 but i dont know if he cross it w the pure NL#1

I dont have any WW going now. WW x Romulan is on my list to make seeds...these seeds are getting real old.Thats why this WW thread caught my eye. how about you? how are your WWs doing?

Anyway hope all you guys find the WW yall are looking for. Take care.

 

[Maple_Flail]

why has nobody keyed into the fact both Shanti and Ingmar say its been worked for several years before release.

is it so unplausable that these guys were all the same camp, same time, same place, differnt directions and idoligies, and the falling out goes deeper than so far mentioned.
how many clones that are not suposed to get out, got out? if the pair are line working thing, then ya chances are you've find a cutting within the line that is the fire and start breeding around it to stabilize its expression

no body has brought up what generations these offerings are. not that I'm aware of spesifics.

i've only had experiance 1 pack to 1pack MRN vs GHS. didn't find the widow I was getting in the early 2000s but the MRN seemed closer(unfortunately this was before i was interested in keeping males, atleast some of their pollen in storage), the GHS widows were all yeild and Hair all fairly samey in a muted widowish vein. (TBF the GHS widow was aquired from a canadian seed bank in the late 2000s)

its seems more prudent to find out who is producing the vein of Widow you prefer. it seems if you want to get a spesific thing, you may want to look for a line worked 3rd party version... if you want a genetic back bone the clear choice is MRN.

The White seems to have taken over in trendy breeding where Widow normal would be used.

Pitty.. anyone know which version went into making Moby Dick?(dinafems version i think is the one i've been seeing in shops)