What's new

Light controller w/timer for small kit DIY

If you are running over 600 watts in your system, you should really consider using a lighting controller. Running an HID light on a household (yes, even the ones they sell at your local grow shop) timer is asking for trouble.

A typical household timer, rated for a 15 amp load contains a small light duty relay. While on the surface, everything seems like it should be OK. the timers 15 amp rating exceeds the 9+ amps your 1k hps draws. Problem is the type rating.

There are two types of electrical loads, resistive and inductive. an HID lamp is an inductive load. the 15 amp rating on your timer represents a resistive load. Placing an inductive load on this relay, will cut it's rating by at about 50% and also drop it's MTBF (mean time between failures) drastically.

Will it work? Yes! the question is how long, and when it fails what happens?

Worst Case, start a fire, melt and short your timer and possibly take out your ballast and lamp or stick on leaving your lamps on beyond the desired time.

To solve this we use light controllers with relays and trigger cables. Great if you're running 4 lamps and 30+ amps but what if you just want to run your 600-1000 watt lamp SAFELY.

Personally, I won't run anything over a 400 on a household timer. Looking for a better timer yielded lots of expensive timers but ALL had the same crappy little relay with a fancier package.

So here's a fairly simple way to build a timer that really is rated for 15amps.

so here are the basic parts all sourced from lowes for about 50 bucks.
1 120v duplex socket
2 deep wall boxes
2 face plates w/correct cutouts.
1 in wall timer
1 30 amp 120v coil mechanical relay (10 bucks on ebay about 30 online)
12/3 cable with male connector


picture.php



First thing we want to do the knockouts, screw the boxes together and install the timer leaving their tails in the junction box. Install power cord and strain relief. Prep all cables.

picture.php


Here on our incoming HOT we have Y'd off. this connection will go to the relay and the Y will provide power to the timer.

picture.php


Here we are taking the incoming neutral and connecting it to our outlet, we are able to Y off of the outlet to give the timer it's neutral as well as the neutral needed to energize the relay coil.

picture.php


Incomming ground and timer ground are tied together at the outlet.

picture.php


Here's where it gets a little tight. We have our hot and neutral that were Y'd off of our incoming 120V powering the timer, we also have a red lead coming out of the timer. this is our timer switched power. We connect it and the neutral to the coil inputs of our relay. Our incomming hot wire is connected to the load side of the relay and our HOT going to our outlet is connected to the other.

picture.php



Here's everything put together and ready to safely switch your 15amp inductive load.

picture.php


You can also wire a trigger cable to plug into into a timer instead of using a built in timer.

I will get a diagram made that will make things a little easier to follow.
 

ExoSteve

Member
1-My timer is 15A rated resistance AND tungsten. Tungsten is what I need to run my 1000w ballast I think...!?!

2-Safer to mess with electricity when we do not know this?

3-This one is good??
http://www.growsmarthydroponics.com/Sentinel-Digital-Intelligent-Lighting-Controller-2_p_11757.html I don't exactly understand the use of the temp shutdown of it...!?! How it can know the of my lumatek ballast?

Maybe this one for the same price? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sentinel-HPH...822?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb815df76

Thank you!
 
1-My timer is 15A rated resistance AND tungsten. Tungsten is what I need to run my 1000w ballast I think...!?!

2-Safer to mess with electricity when we do not know this?

3-This one is good??
http://www.growsmarthydroponics.com/Sentinel-Digital-Intelligent-Lighting-Controller-2_p_11757.html I don't exactly understand the use of the temp shutdown of it...!?! How it can know the of my lumatek ballast?



Maybe this one for the same price? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sentinel-HPH...822?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb815df76

Thank you!

Those are nice timers, I don't know if they use a contactor or HD relay inside. The high temp shut off is a nice feature.
The second is great if you need the capacity.
 

ExoSteve

Member
What is the temp shut down feature exactly? The timer get too hot...it turn off?

EDIT : The timer has a temp detector that we put in the growroom and at a certain temperature de light is shuted down.

These are safer than my heavy duty Woods timer?
 

rives

Inveterate Tinkerer
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Exo, tungsten is incandescent lighting. It is hard on switch or relay contacts because, when cold, it is very close to a direct short and the inrush current is very high. As the element warms up (almost instantly) the resistance of the element changes to a very high state, limiting the current to a much lower value. As Budley said, HID lighting would be considered an inductive load.

The temp sensor is in case your fan fails and the temperature in your grow area gets too high from trapped heat.
 

ExoSteve

Member
Thank you Rives! So I would buy the sentinel 2 timer without worrying about trouble?

My timer is only rated for resistive and tungsten ... so I should not use it with my 1000w HID?
 

rrog

Active member
Veteran
I have a main 200A panel, running to a basement sub panel. I installed a dedicated 20A breaker. Using 10-3 copper, I ran 15-20' to my hidden grow "room." So all 120v.

I have hospital grade outlets, and ran more 10-3 to all outlets. I used a lot of copper since it seemed like a good idea.

I'd be plugging my controller into one of these outlets. Hope that's OK. I'd like to be able to control a 600w and a 1000W HPS and my little 60W UV-b.

I hate the idea that I'm running that 600W with a grow timer. You would think that basic controllers would be available more cheaply. What the hell, I like building stuff.
 

rives

Inveterate Tinkerer
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Thank you Rives! So I would buy the sentinel 2 timer without worrying about trouble?

My timer is only rated for resistive and tungsten ... so I should not use it with my 1000w HID?

The Sentinel 2 looks like a very nice timer, but I cannot find any detailed specifications for it (even on the Sentinel web site). I would assume that it would be fine for your application because that appears to be their target market, but it would be best if you contacted them at the following address and ask if it is suitable.

[email protected]

You might be able to find more information on your timer at the manufacturer's web site. Usually, the "break" rating on contacts for an inductive load is about half of the resistive rating. Where a tungsten load is hard on the contacts during the "make" cycle (the contacts closing), inductive loads are hard on the "break" cycle (the contacts opening) because the magnetic field from the coil saturation makes the current want to keep flowing.
 
You might be able to find more information on your timer at the manufacturer's web site. Usually, the "break" rating on contacts for an inductive load is about half of the resistive rating. Where a tungsten load is hard on the contacts during the "make" cycle (the contacts closing), inductive loads are hard on the "break" cycle (the contacts opening) because the magnetic field from the coil saturation makes the current want to keep flowing.

That's the best description I have read between the two, thanks.

Ok, I'll do a DIY on a relay box w/o the timer, Just a trigger cable. And yes, DIY is really the best way to go. This is all basic wiring that can be done cold (no power).

I would only trust the sentinal if it specifiaclly addresses this issue. There are dozens of timers sold in this little industry of ours that claim to be designed for our purposes that have the same tiny relay.
 

ExoSteve

Member
thank budley! I'll maybe use the DIY light controller depending on the sentinel answer!

EDIT : The only in wall timer I find are 1000w 8A tungsten/resistive ... its the same crap as an home timer...!?!?

Greners.com said that the sentinel is safe to run with a 1000w lumatek @ 120v. I asked them if problem can occur because of EMF and they didn't answered that. Here is there answer "
There is no comparison. Equipped with a photo-sensor for use of day/night cycles for fans and hydroponic equipment, High Temp protection, data logging, remote temperature probe and a built in circuit breaker for maximum protection, this is in no way similar to a 24 hour timer. The Sentinel is both built better, provides more features and better control. There is no issue with using them with any magnetic or electronic ballast. "
 
thank budley! I'll maybe use the DIY light controller depending on the sentinel answer!

EDIT : The only in wall timer I find are 1000w 8A tung..snip...sten/resistive ... its the same crap as an home timer...!?!?

Greners.com said that the sentinel is safe to run with a 1000w maximum protection, this is in no way similar to a 24 hour timer. The Sentinel is both built better, provides more features and better control. There is no issue with using them with any magnetic or electronic ballast. "

You can use any timer when you are using an external relay. The internal timer is simply providing 120v to the coil of the relay. The power that your light is drawing doesn't pass thru the timer, only the external relay.

I agree the sentinal is more than a timer and has great features, but if it has a 15A relay in it, then your still in the same boat.

I will do a simpler to build external relay. It will plug into your 15-20amp outlet, then plug your light into it. It will have a small trigger cable that will plug into your timer. Very simple, easy to build and effective for us guys don't need 240V range plug amounts of power.
 

rrog

Active member
Veteran
I don't even know if I'm running 110 or 120. Don't know if the dryer is 220 or 240.
 
110-120 are the same. we call it 110 even though there should be 120V. It fluctuates. same w/220-240

If your US based your 110-120v and 220-240v. Most of the rest of the world is 220.
 

ExoSteve

Member
I will do a simpler to build external relay. It will plug into your 15-20amp outlet, then plug your light into it. It will have a small trigger cable that will plug into your timer. Very simple, easy to build and effective for us guys don't need 240V range plug amounts of power.

Thanks!! I understand now!! :) So, I take any in wall timer + the parts you mentionned and I'm saved? :)
 
Thanks!! I understand now!! :) So, I take any in wall timer + the parts you mentionned and I'm saved? :)


It will work. It is really easy to just wire a relay with a trigger cable that plugs into a timer. then any old timer will do. I will do a DIY on this as well. Everyone has a timer laying around.

Makes for an easier project. Things get tight in there with the inwall timer, relay and outlet.
 

ExoSteve

Member
Inductive Loads include power drills, electric mixers, fans, sewing machines and vacuum cleaners. Relays that are going to be subjected to high-inrush inductive loads, such as an AC motor, will often be rated in horsepower, rather than in volts and amps. This rating reflects the amount of power the relay contacts can handle at the moment the device is turned on (or switched).

AC or DC – This affects the contacts circuit of the relay (due to EMF) and the timing sequencing and may result in performance issues in the switching capacity of the relay for different load types (i.e. resistive, inductive, etc.).

EMF from my ballast can distrub the good operating of my relay?

They are A LOT of 30amp relay. I don't know which one I would choose...!!!??!?!?

My wire should be gauge number ?????

Gauge size of the timer wires matter?
 
Top