Is civilization about to fall?

[AndreNicky]

Republicans, Democrats both one in the same. Its all an illusion to make you think you have a choice(you don't). If you think otherwise your just a pawn. The only defense most American people have against these people is to stop buying there products and services. Most people refuse to do this then scream for change.

Cut your ties from everything they stand for, stop buying there food, trinkets and doo-dads. Plant a food forest and live how god meant for us to live. Global warming, pollution, world hunger, war, famine, racism, hatred, obesity, disease, cancer it can all be cured with fruit trees

 

[mean mr.mustard]

OK, smart ass...shoiw me an example of Fox News being unfair. Also show me an example of them being unbalanced. See, you are speaking right out your ass.
You have no fucking idea what Fox news presents, other than the perception the left takes on.
I got your idiot right here in my drawers. See, you don't have to explain what I am or what I look like, I know what I am. It is you that has no clue as to how ignorant you look when you take on the party line.

You have absolutely NO evidence to back up your assertions. Or maybe prove me wrong...but for you to think you can simply call idiot and be done with the argument...well, that is the way phony leftists play.

I'm finding it pretty difficult to convince myself you would even listen to reason. I am not the one who is looking ignorant touting party lines. I am not either a democrat or a republican. I've seen you call a lot of people a lot of names. I've seen you make plenty of generalizations that I could hear on nazi am radio.

The last time you asked me for examples you totally ignored them. And as for an example of Fox News being unfair or unbalanced... no news is fair or balanced.

You need to realize you're being fed propaganda and it's coming back out of your mouth before your brain has time to check it out. Don't buy it at face value. Do your research.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

Republicans, Democrats both one in the same. Its all an illusion to make you think you have a choice(you don't). If you think otherwise your just a pawn. The only defense most American people have against these people is to stop buying there products and services. Most people refuse to do this then scream for change.

Cut your ties from everything they stand for, stop buying there food, trinkets and doo-dads. Plant a food forest and live how god meant for us to live. Global warming, pollution, world hunger, war, famine, racism, hatred, obesity, disease, cancer it can all be cured with fruit trees

after reading some of your posts I get the slight idea that you may like fruit a little bit

I try to plant a seed from a fruit tree every other day, have sprouted tons of mango trees like that, amongst other tropical fruit trees. pretty good stuff.
I still need to be able to graft and or root cuttings of some of my favorite fruit trees though.

much peace

 

[cork144]

I'm finding it pretty difficult to convince myself you would even listen to reason.


Do your research.

people are too ignorent to do either unforciantly mustard

tv must be all knowing

 

[nomaad]

I'm finding it pretty difficult to convince myself you would even listen to reason. I am not the one who is looking ignorant touting party lines. I am not either a democrat or a republican.

He's not equipped to have a reasonable discussion. This is the kind of guy who needs to get dropped in a south american slum or north african refugee camp for a week or two... then see if he's ready to employ some reason and some perspective.

Hoosier: If you think that Democrats and Republicans have vastly different political ideologies, you obviously have not studied the entire spectrum of political theory... or you would see how limited the discourse in this country is. but, then again, I doubt anybody who watches Fox News (as their main news source) has. CNN either, for that matter.

Sure...they are quite different when compared to each other just like Fox might have been rated more fair when compared to the other pathetic infotainment/fear outlets in a study that did not include in its comparison any of the more legit (and obscure) news sources out there. By controlling the boundaries of debate about the Reps and the Dems to their own nearly identical ideologies, you confine yourself to the attendant ignorance.

And.. if you need an example of how Fox is unfair, all you have to do is look at their use of the words "leftist" (you still think you know what one is) and "socialist" to define any capitalist who dares cross the line to do anything to mitigate capitalism's ills. As far as I know the only Socialist in the entire US federal government is Bernie Sanders of Vermont. He is a staunch critic of Democrat and Republican supported hyper capitalism. As for the rest of the dems, they are neither leftist or socialist... They might be juuuuust to the left of center, but since capitalism and imperialism are pretty far to the right of center and they are still vehemnetly capitalist.... So... whether they are fair or balanced isn't really the issue. They are just plain... well.. full of shit.

I haven't heard anybody in this thread getting behind the Democrats as you keep accusing them of.

Ask any true leftist... but that would mean finding one... and you've proven yourself too indoctrinated to even know what one is. Nobody here cares to talk about Murtha, as you demand that they do, because we are all of the opinion that the debate between the republicans and the democrats is a joke to begin with. Fox news: joke. CNN: joke. You: big joke because you're not even smart enough to have an ORIGINAL idea... all of yours are just quoted chapter and verse from one of the other jokes. So you're a second hand joke. Congrats. If you're looking for somebody who watches as much CNN as you do Fox and buys into it like the sad robot you are, it looks like you're not going to find it in this thread. (unfortunately, you will probably find too many people who believe Alex Jones like you believe FOx, but that's another debate entirely) As I have stated before, to have the "discussion" you'd like to have so that you can trump their spin with your own could be had at the "wait to be seated" sign at Denny's over a cup of weak coffee and a copy of USA Today.

 

[bkind]

oops

 

[bkind]

In my opinion a true "leftist" is someone with a pure mind and a heart of compassion. Guatama Buddha, Ghandi, Bob Marley...the list goes on you get my point, LOVE. You can't truly judge anyone, because they are just secondary characters in your story. All we can know is what we BELIEVE about someone, probably mostly lies we tell ourselves.

The solution is certainly to start a sustainable lifestyle now! Seeds are the new gold...

hehehe....i'll pose this question again seeing that it was politely ignored...
who owns Fox?

Look what I found, fun facts for class today!

http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...7/b122948.html

In recent years, Australian-born billionaire Rupert Murdoch has used the U.S. government's increasingly lax media regulations to consolidate his hold over the media and wider political debate in America. Consider Murdoch's empire: According to Businessweek, "his satellites deliver TV programs in five continents, all but dominating Britain, Italy, and wide swaths of Asia and the Middle East. He publishes 175 newspapers, including the New York Post and The Times of London. In the U.S., he owns the Twentieth Century Fox Studio, Fox Network, and 35 TV stations that reach more than 40% of the country...His cable channels include fast-growing Fox News, and 19 regional sports channels. In all, as many as one in five American homes at any given time will be tuned into a show News Corp. either produced or delivered." But who is the real Rupert Murdoch? As this report shows, he is a far-right partisan who has used his empire explicitly to pull American political debate to the right. He is also an enabler of the oppressive tactics employed by dictatorial regimes, and a man who admits to having hidden money in tax havens. In short, there more to Rupert Murdoch than meets the eye.

In 2003, Rupert Murdoch told a congressional panel that his use of "political influence in our newspapers or television" is "nonsense." But a close look at the record shows Murdoch has imparted his far-right agenda throughout his media empire.

MURDOCH THE WAR MONGER: Just after the Iraq invasion, the New York Times reported, "The war has illuminated anew the exceptional power in the hands of Murdoch, 72, the chairman of News Corp… In the last several months, the editorial policies of almost all his English-language news organizations have hewn very closely to Murdoch's own stridently hawkish political views, making his voice among the loudest in the Anglophone world in the international debate over the American-led war with Iraq." The Guardian reported before the war Murdoch gave "his full backing to war, praising George Bush as acting 'morally' and 'correctly' and describing Tony Blair as 'full of guts'" for his support of the war. Murdoch said just before the war, "We can't back down now – I think Bush is acting very morally, very correctly." [New York Times, 4/9/03; Guardian, 2/12/03]

MURDOCH THE NEOCONSERVATIVE: Murdoch owns the Weekly Standard, the neoconservative journal that employed key figures who pushed for war in Iraq. As the American Journalism Review noted, the circulation of Murdoch's Weekly Standard "hovers at only around 65,000. But its voice is much louder than those numbers suggest." Editor Bill Kristol "is particularly adept at steering Washington policy debates by inserting himself and his views into the discussion." In the early weeks of the War on Terror, Kristol "shepherded a letter to President Bush, signed by 40 D.c= opinion-makers, urging a wider military engagement." [Source: AJR, 12/01]

MURDOCH THE OIL IMPERIALIST: Murdoch has acknowledged his major rationale for supporting the Iraq invasion: oil. While both American and British politicians strenuously deny the significance of oil in the war, the Guardian of London notes, "Murdoch wasn't so reticent. He believes that deposing the Iraqi leader would lead to cheaper oil." Murdoch said before the war, "The greatest thing to come out of this for the world economy...would be $20 a barrel for oil. That's bigger than any tax cut in any country." He buttressed this statement when he later said, "Once [Iraq] is behind us, the whole world will benefit from cheaper oil which will be a bigger stimulus than anything else." [Guardian, 2/17/03]

MURDOCH THE INTIMIDATOR: According to Agence France-Press, "Rupert Murdoch's Fox News Channel threatened to sue the makers of 'The Simpsons' over a parody of the channel's right-wing political stance…In an interview this week with National Public Radio, Matt Groening recalled how the news channel had considered legal action, despite the fact that 'The Simpsons' is broadcast on sister network, Fox Entertainment. According to Groening, Fox took exception took a Simpsons' version of the Fox News rolling news ticker which parodied the channel's anti-Democrat stance with headlines like 'Do Democrats Cause Cancer?'" [Source: Agence France-Press, 10/29/03]

MURDOCH THE NEWS EDITOR: "When The New York Post tore up its front page on Monday night to trumpet an apparent exclusive that Representative Richard A. Gephardt would be Senator John Kerry's running mate, the newspaper based its decision on a very high-ranking source: Rupert Murdoch, the man who controls the company that owns The Post, an employee said yesterday. The Post employee demanded anonymity, saying senior editors had warned that those who discussed the Gephardt gaffe with other news organizations would lose their jobs." [NY Times, 7/9/04]

Just as Fox claims to be "fair and balanced," Rupert Murdoch claims to stay out of partisan politics. But he has made his views quite clear – and used his media empire to implement his wishes. As a former News Corp. executive told Fortune Magazine, Murdoch "hungered for the kind of influence in the United States that he had in England and Australia" and that meant "part of our political strategy [in the U.S.] was the New York Post and the creation of Fox News and the Weekly Standard."

MURDOCH THE BUSH SUPPORTER: Murdoch told Newsweek before the war, Bush "will either go down in history as a very great president or he'll crash and burn. I'm optimistic it will be the former by a ratio of 2 to 1…One senses he is a man of great character and deep humility." [Newsweek, 2/17/03]

MURDOCH THE BUSH FAMILY EMPLOYER: As Slate reports, Murdoch "put George W. Bush cousin John Ellis in charge of [Fox's] Election Night vote-counting operation: Ellis made Fox the first network to declare Bush the victor" even as the New Yorker reported that Ellis spent the evening discussing the election with George W. and Jeb Bush. After the election, Fox bragged that it attracted 6.8 million viewers on Election Night, meaning Ellis was in a key position to tilt the election for President Bush. [Source: Slate, 11/22/00; New Yorker, 11/20/00]

MURDOCH THE MIXER OF BUSINESS AND POLITICS: James Fallows of the Atlantic Monthly points out that most of Murdoch's actions "are consistent with the use of political influence for corporate advantage." In other words, he uses his publications to advance a political agenda that will make him money. The New York Times reports that in 2001, for example, The Sun, Britain's most widely read newspaper, followed Murdoch's lead in dropping its traditional conservative affiliation to endorse Tony Blair, the New Labor candidate. News Corp.'s other British papers, The Times of London, The Sunday Times and the tabloid News of the World, all concurred. The papers account for about 35% of the newspaper market in Britain. Blair backed "a communications bill in the British Parliament that would loosen restrictions on foreign media ownership and allow a major newspaper publisher to own a broadcast television station as well a provision its critics call the 'Murdoch clause' because it seems to apply mainly to News Corp." [Atlantic Monthly, 9/03; New York Times, 4/9/03]

MURDOCH THE NEW YORK CITY POLITICAL BOSS: The Columbia Journalism Review reported that during New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's first term "News Corp. received a $20.7 million tax break for the mid-Manhattan office building that houses the Post, Fox News Channel, TV Guide and other operations. During Giuliani's 1997 reelection campaign, News Corp. was also angling for hefty city tax breaks and other incentives to set up a new printing plant in New York City. Most dramatically, Giuliani jumped in to aggressively champion News Corp. when it battled Time Warner over a slot for the Fox News Channel on Time Warner's local cable system…Three years into Giuliani's first term, veteran Village Voice political reporter Wayne Barrett asked Post editorial page editor Eric Breindel if the paper had run a single editorial critical of the administration; Breindel, he says, admitted it had not. According to Barrett, the paper pulled off a perfect four-year streak" of not one critical editorial. [Columbia Journalism Review, 6/98]

Rupert Murdoch thinks of himself as a staunch anti-communist. But a look at the record shows that when his own profits are on the line, he is willing to do favors for the most repressive regimes on the planet.

MURDOCH THE DEFENDER OF REPRESSIVE REGIMES: The last governor of Hong Kong before it was handed back to China, Chris Patten, signed a contract to write his memoirs with Murdoch's publishing company, HarperCollins. But according to the Evening Standard, when "Murdoch heard that the book, East and West, would say unflattering things about the Chinese leadership, with whom he was doing satellite TV business, the contract was cancelled. It caused a furor in the press - except, of course, in the Murdoch papers, which barely mentioned the story." According to BusinessWeek, internal memos surfaced suggesting the canceling of the contract was motivated by "corporate worries about friction with China, where HarperCollins' boss, Rupert Murdoch, has many business interests." [Evening Standard, 8/13/03; BusinessWeek, 9/15/98]

MURDOCH THE APOLOGIST FOR DICTATORSHIPS: Time Magazine reported that while Murdoch is supposedly "a devout anti-Soviet and anti-communist" he "became bewitched by China in the early '90s." In an effort to persuade Chinese dictators that he would never challenge their behavior, Murdoch "threw the BBC off Star TV" (his satellite network operating in China) after BBC aired reports about Chinese human rights violations. Murdoch argued the BBC "was gratuitously attacking the regime, playing film of the massacre in Tiananmen Square over and over again." In 1998 Chinese President Jiang Zemin praised Murdoch for the "objective" way in which his papers and television covered China. [Source: Time Magazine, 10/25/99]

MURDOCH THE PROPAGANDIST FOR DICTATORS: While Murdoch justifies his global media empire as a threat to "totalitarian regimes everywhere," according to Time Magazine, Murdoch actually pays the salary of a top TV consultant working to improve the Chinese government's communist state-run television CCTV. As Time notes, "nowadays, News Corp. and CCTV International are partners of sorts," exchanging agreements to air each other's content, even though CCTV is "a key propaganda arm of the Communist Party." [Source: Time Magazine, 7/6/04]

MURDOCH THE ENABLER OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATORS: According to the LA Times, Murdoch had his son James, now in charge of News Corp.'s China initiative, attack the Falun Gong, the spiritual movement banned by the Chinese government after 10,000 of its followers protested in Tiananmen Square. With Rupert in attendance, James Murdoch called the movement a "dangerous" and "apocalyptic cult" and lambasted the Western press for its negative portrayal of China's awful human rights record. Murdoch "startled even China's supporters with his zealous defense of that government's harsh crackdown on Falun Gong and criticism of Hong Kong democracy supporters." Murdoch also "said Hong Kong democracy advocates should accept the reality of life under a strong-willed 'absolutist' government." It "appeared to some to be a blatant effort to curry favor" with the China's repressive government. [LA Times, 3/23/01]

MURDOCH THE HIDER OF MONEY IN COMMUNIST CUBA: Despite a U.S. embargo of communist Cuba, the Washington Post reports, "News Corp.'s organizational chart consists of no less than 789 business units incorporated in 52 countries, including Mauritius, Fiji and even Cuba." [Washington Post, 12/7/97]

From union busting to tax evading, Rupert Murdoch has established a shady business record that raises serious questions about his corporate ethics.

MURDOCH THE UNION BUSTER: The Economist reported that in 1986 Murdoch "helped smash the British print unions by transferring the production of his newspapers to a non-union plant at Wapping in East London." The move "proved to be a turning-point in Britain's dreadful industrial relations." AP reported Murdoch specifically "slashed employment levels" at the union plant and said he would "dismiss the 6,000 striking workers" who were trying to force concessions out of the media baron. The London Evening Standard called the tactics "the biggest union-busting operation in history." [Sources: The Economist, 4/18/98; AP, 1/27/86; Evening Standard, 11/12/98]

MURDOCH THE CORPORATE TAX EVADER: The BBC reported that "Mr. Murdoch's die-hard loyalty to the tax loophole has drawn wide criticism" after a report found that in the four years prior to June 30, 1998, "Murdoch's News Corporation and its subsidiaries paid only $325 million in corporate taxes worldwide. That translates as 6% of the $5.4 billion consolidated pre-tax profits for the same period…By comparison another multi-national media empire, Disney, paid 31%. The corporate tax rates for the three main countries in which News Corp. operates - Australia, the United States and the UK - are 36%, 35% and 30% respectively. Further research reveals that Mr. Murdoch's main British holding company, News Corp. Investments, has paid no net corporation tax within these shores over the past 11 years. This is despite accumulated pre-tax profits of nearly $3 billion." [Source: BBC, 3/25/99]

MURDOCH THE LOVER OF OFFSHORE TAX HAVENS: When a congressional panel asked if he was hiding money in tax havens, including communist Cuba, Murdoch responded "we might have in the past, I'm not denying that." The Washington Post reports, "through the deft use of international accounting loopholes and offshore tax havens, Murdoch has paid corporate income taxes at one-fifth the rate of his chief U.S. rivals throughout the 1990s, according to corporate documents and company officials." Murdoch "has mastered the use of the offshore tax haven." His company "reduces its annual tax bill by channeling profits through dozens of subsidiaries in low-tax or no-tax places such as the Cayman Islands and Bermuda. The overseas profits from movies made by 20th Century Fox, for instance, flow into a News Corp.-controlled company in the Caymans, where they are not taxed." [Source: Congressional Testimony, 5/8/03; Washington Post, 12/7/97]

MURDOCH THE ABUSER OF TAX LOOPHOLES: Even though Murdoch changed his citizenship in order to comply with U.S. media ownership rules, many of his companies have remained Australian, allowing them "to utilize arcane accounting rules that have pumped up reported profits and greatly aided Murdoch's periodic acquisition sprees." IRS officials point out that "U.S.-based companies face U.S. taxes on their offshore subsidiaries in the Caymans and elsewhere if more than 50 percent of the subsidiary is controlled by American shareholders. But that doesn't apply to News Corp., an Australian company." [Source: Congressional Testimony, 5/8/03; Washington Post, 12/7/97]

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

OK, smart ass...shoiw me an example of Fox News being unfair.

Bill Hemmer Accuses Obama "Czar" Of Condoning Statutory Rape

Bill Hemmer reported that Department of Education official Kevin Jennings knew of a "statutory rape" case involving a 15-year-old student but "never reported it." In fact, the student was above the age of consent.

hoosier, here's 9 more, all in one nice convenient link.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/20/the-ten-most-egregious-fo_n_327140.html

​

Also show me an example of them being unbalanced. See, you are speaking right out your ass.

Pick your favorite from the above. I'm sure there's more every day. After all, it's Fox noise.

You have no fucking idea what Fox news presents, other than the perception the left takes on.

Any jar with a lid knows what Fox noise is.

I got your idiot right here in my drawers.

Sorry, have to squint to see something that small. Is that it beside the tweezers and magnifying glass?

See, you don't have to explain what I am or what I look like, I know what I am. It is you that has no clue as to how ignorant you look when you take on the party line.

As a Republican, you are one out of every five Americans or 20%. As a conservative, you are an even smaller percentage because part of the Republican party is moderate. There may even be more moderate Republicans than conservatives. I'll see if I can dig up some info showing conservatives are about 10% or one outta ten peeps in the US.

As a result, the Republican party has jumped the shark. You have folks like Sara Palin and Rush telling everybody the Republican party needs to hunker down and only accept knee jerk, right wing idealogs. Meanwhile, Bob Dole and George HW Bush are big tenters. They'll end up ripping each others ears off. In the meantime, the vast majority of conservatives will create yet another American conservative political party.

You have absolutely NO evidence to back up your assertions. Or maybe prove me wrong

hoosier, you're like the yummybud of political debate. You ask for info, it is provided and you still don't listen or accept. Aside from your political persuasion, (which is a choice) you're wrong almost every time you post when it's about politics. Your references are non-existent, your facts are wrong and when you say shit like "prove me wrong" it's obvious you don't know the truth when you see it.

but for you to think you can simply call idiot and be done with the argument...well, that is the way phony leftists play.

I can see you lying on the couch at the shrink. For every fucked up disorder you own, you declare it's the shrink that's the real dope.



For those that think they can call you an idiot.... you opened that jar first man.

 

[nomaad]

In my opinion a true "leftist" is someone with a pure mind and a heart of compassion. Guatama Buddha, Ghandi, Bob Marley...the list goes on you get my point, LOVE.

Not all true leftists are cartoon characters like the ones you mention above. Those are icons.

The majority of true leftists are real people who fight day to day for justice. Justice for workers and justice for the environment and justice for the victims of imperialism, racism, capitalism. Being a real leftist is about activism and hard work. Not that the people you mention above are not great people who are icons for a reason... I just don't want to let it stand that a leftist needs to hold themselves up to such icons. I am not "pure" but I am a leftist. In fact, if your are both a real person and a leftist you'd have to overcome some of your "impure" instincts, like buying those apples that were shipped from argentina instead of waiting for a more local apple season... Its not easy being green.

The funny part that hoosierdaddy completely misses because of his media diet is that the Obama campaign was a rare stroke of genius for the Democrats in that they used it to completely co-opt the true left (lets call them progressives) that had been gaining influence in the party. Basically, in language that hoosierdaddy may understand, the candidacy of Obama cut M<ichael Moore's balls off. Fearing another stolen election (the evidence for election fraud in 200 and 2004 is well documented) and being wooed by the attractive young black man and how good they all knew it would feel to elect him, the left got right into lockstep behind the party line (capitalism, imperialism and a great smile). For the stalwarts on the vanguard of the left- anyone with any consciousness since WTO:99-, Obama was a disaster. The real left is shattered and it will probably take years to rebuild the cohesion and organization of the early 2000's.

Hoosier: My point is: if it is socialism you hate so much, you should love Obama. He has dealt a blow to the leftists that Fox news has been unable to do. Maybe its because they don't even know what one is.... like you.

Unfortunately, that is not the reason. Fox is run by a propaganda genius of a guy called Roger "Goebbels" Ailes... he's actually smart enough to know what socialism and a true leftist is... But he uses the words wrong every day, on purpose because he knows that the mutts like you, who watch the network (and little else- go find the study where they show that Fox's "news product" consumers are like 10 times more likely to get their information from ONLY ONE SOURCE) will go nuts at the mere mention of the word "socialism" or "leftist" regardless of what is being used to describe. He also knows that if you hear it 28 times, you will actually believe that its true and support whatever agenda goes along with it... That's not a leftist silly, that's a can of dolphin safe tuna.

Anyhow... I gave some thought to why I keep posting here since its so obviously a waste of time... But I think that it is worthwhile... You're being buried under an avalanche of so obviously more developed and thought out opinion that it serves to illustrate how obviously and incredibly ignorant your opinion is.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

When you hear "leftist" from a conservative, it has nothing to do with the literal definition. This special breed of leftist comes from the Reagan era. When Reagan and HW Bush were trying to install right wing dictators in Central America, opposition/nationalist forces resisted.

These opposition forces were given scary names to aid US propaganda. The trouble was that "rebel" and "guerrilla" only went so far. We were rebels against the king and guerrilla is a fighting skill we used to defeat the British. What we needed was a prefix to scare folks that don't know what the word really means. Enter "leftist guerrilla" and "leftist rebel", eventually shortened to leftist. These nationalistic opposition forces weren't necessarily leftist. They simply opposed CIA attempted/installed dictatorships that were identified as extreme right.

Reagan wouldn't have been prez without spreading fear of liberalism, often disguised as "government is the problem" ie Democrat. If it worked to scare domestics away from their own system, it would certainly work to scare them with other countries.

Try to tell Lou Dobbs the correct definition of leftist. He'll give you the same, glazed look as if you had just split the atom in front of his eyes.

In all credit to hoosier, I'm absolutely certain he knows Buddha and Gandhi were leftist. He knows the term doesn't technically apply but it falls in line with the theatrical scare words of the Republican party. It used to be fashionable to bash liberals. Now the political shift favors the left. As soon as we get dumb enough, we'll swing conservative and things get get messed up even more than now.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... The majority of true leftists are real people who fight day to day for justice. Justice for workers and justice for the environment and justice for the victims of imperialism, racism, capitalism. Being a real leftist is about activism and hard work. Not that the people you mention above are not great people who are icons for a reason... I just don't want to let it stand that a leftist needs to hold themselves up to such icons. I am not "pure" but I am a leftist. In fact, if your are both a real person and a leftist you'd have to overcome some of your "impure" instincts, like buying those apples that were shipped from argentina instead of waiting for a more local apple season... Its not easy being green.

That's where extremist capitalistic ideology disagrees. We'll buy those damn apples wherever we want by gawd. If it ain't local we'll burn all the carbon it takes to get em here.

The funny part that hoosierdaddy completely misses because of his media diet is that the Obama campaign was a rare stroke of genius for the Democrats in that they used it to completely co-opt the true left (lets call them progressives) that had been gaining influence in the party. Basically, in language that hoosierdaddy may understand, the candidacy of Obama cut M<ichael Moore's balls off. Fearing another stolen election (the evidence for election fraud in 200 and 2004 is well documented) and being wooed by the attractive young black man and how good they all knew it would feel to elect him, the left got right into lockstep behind the party line (capitalism, imperialism and a great smile). For the stalwarts on the vanguard of the left- anyone with any consciousness since WTO:99-, Obama was a disaster. The real left is shattered and it will probably take years to rebuild the cohesion and organization of the early 2000's.

Bravo, nomad! You just split the atom that glazed hoosier's eyes. Well said.

Hoosier: My point is: if it is socialism you hate so much, you should love Obama. He has dealt a blow to the leftists that Fox news has been unable to do. Maybe its because they don't even know what one is.... like you.

hoosier hates Republicans in the minority. He doesn't hate SS, Medicare, USPS etc. He just hates Democrats calling the shots. All the meaningless words he tosses isn't for our benefit. He assumes if he says it enough, some wayward wanderer might actually see it and believe.

hoosier doesn't actually want his socialistic benefits taken away. He doesn't even know to what degree his life is made better. He just aligns his political philosophy on a few basic elements of a party and ignores anything that has disastrous outcomes.

...Fox is run by a propaganda genius of a guy called Roger "Goebbels" Ailes... he's actually smart enough to know what socialism and a true leftist is... But he uses the words wrong every day, on purpose because he knows that the mutts like you, who watch the network (and little else- go find the study where they show that Fox's "news product" consumers are like 10 times more likely to get their information from ONLY ONE SOURCE) will go nuts at the mere mention of the word "socialism" or "leftist" regardless of what is being used to describe. He also knows that if you hear it 28 times, you will actually believe that its true and support whatever agenda goes along with it... That's not a leftist silly, that's a can of dolphin safe tuna.

Don't forget Karl Rove. Wasn't he the guy that was quoted, "perception trumps reality"? If you say it enough, people will believe it. I've got news for Karl. If I reject the bs coming from my own party, I'm damned sure gonna ignore the other sides bs as well.

Anyhow... I gave some thought to why I keep posting here since its so obviously a waste of time... But I think that it is worthwhile... You're being buried under an avalanche of so obviously more developed and thought out opinion that it serves to illustrate how obviously and incredibly ignorant your opinion is.

You have to consider the me mentality before you can understand conservatism. Maybe when Democrats get evil enough to reference the psychiatric community's opinion that the "me first" element of conservatism is a mental disorder, it will seem less cool to be conservative.

 

[nomaad]

In all credit to hoosier, I'm absolutely certain he knows Buddha and Gandhi were leftist. He knows the term doesn't technically apply but it falls in line with the theatrical scare words of the Republican party. It used to be fashionable to bash liberals. Now the political shift favors the left. As soon as we get dumb enough, we'll swing conservative and things get get messed up even more than now.

are you kidding? he may know now that he's been told (doubt it), but I am absolutely certain of nothing when it comes to somebody capable of quoting Fox news as his source of opinion and information... and then trying to make a case for why its MORE valid than something else. That's pretty amazing. I think you're giving too much credit to the Fox viewership... and too little to the way mass media 9on both sides of the corporate coin) forms opinions.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Yes, I was kidding. Anything I say hoosier/absolutely certain is in jest.

As far as both sides forming opinions, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. If I debate a conservative and fail to persuade them, no harm no foul. If I skew or spin information to fool the next opponent, that's another story.

I'll give an example. The state of Hawaii and the US State Department vetted Obama's citizenship. Somebody made an issue over the fact that Hawaii issues a copy of the short bc that doesn't disclose additional personal info that has nothing to do with vetting candidates. Even though the official procedure was followed to the letter, birthers want Obama to go through an additional level of scrutiny to show their obstinacy.

Are birthers intelligent? The answer may surprise. There are actually two birthers. One doesn't actually believe the bs but finds it an opportunity to express discontent. The other actually believes Obama was born in Kenya. IMO, the discontents are smarter. How much is indeed a mystery.

In closing I don't choose to infer the other side is less educated, even when I get rep to the contrary. I guess I'll never understand being personally insulted and cussed out (but get) positive rep along with it. Doesn't make sense but that's just me.

 

[guest396]

People with your additude will be the first to end up in the fema camps. It is comming. It started with the eu and nafta. Then 911. Big brother is real I used to work for him when i was in the army. I dont think it will come to armed combat with federal forces because most service members will decent before killing their own. But combat between tribal factions over land food and wepons will run amuck untill a new government is formed. Money will b useless. Guns ammo and salt will b the new dollar. Instead of gass fodder for horses will b the next great fuel source as fuel for internal combustion engines will run out as soon as opec quits getting money from north american consumers. America will b divided whites in the north. Blacks in the southeast. And latinos takeing the southwest a whole book has been written on the subject. So keep thinking what you want and I will prepare for reality.

don't know about the racial seperation/seregation being spot on as far as location goes but yeah i can see it happening, as the word is when the shit hits they are going after illegals, many white people are married to non whites and are quite fond of their spouses, i can see this being a problem they will exploite. the thing that suprises me is that no one conciders the Deep Undergound Military BaseS (D.U.M.B'S) the elite have all over. think of the real purpose to be a mile below the ground! war/nuclear (the sword) diease (pestilence) both of which will cause starvation (famine) and the elite have not only underground food stores, but organic nonmodified seed stock as well, stored for this purpose. i don't know who wrote the book but he would need to factor in things like H.A.A.R.P. (weather control) remember katrina? don't think those displaced people just went away. the california fires. its all a control a test. i have so many links to shit that would blow your mind facts you can prove, and if most weren't lulabied to sleep i would post you'd get pissed and WE would do something. i am glad i have faith though as most won't be willing to do a thing. most have been taught (and to a degree rightly so) not to trust anyone. that's why they have operation trojan horse right here on the internet we are to afraid to gather in the streets, so we cackle on the internet like birds. that's where trojan comes in, if you say anything remotely important or significant about any of the new world order puzzle pieces (like the above), most forums have specially placed moderators that then collect your info(isp; whatnot) and add you to the lists of people that are dissenters/terrorists. then your fucked because the military will come door to door for those people without question. no quams or quarells about it. add mass public outcry from both the sick and the well (rampped up lab made swine flu) multiply by X (X in this case most likely equals a dirty bomb placed at a previously decided location by the illuminati/globalist banker elite) equals mass chaos on the north american continent. i don't suppose one of our greatest creditors, China, has unwisely chosen to own (control) some of our major shipping ports and even to the degree that one of their rulers' (china's) sons owns the company that oversees all that comes into the port.

i'll try to put something together for you if i think any of you (even one) shows genuine interest or concern about the things OUR governments has in store for all of US.

OHGEE

 

[SpasticGramps]

Civilizations come and go. We will be no different. One will rise as one falls. It's a cycle that never ends. Until we blow ourselves up. However, I think the concept of mutual destruction is a pretty strong deterrent.

 

[dmt]

Man, fuck yeah! So wtf do we do? Just keep smokin' dmt and become multi-dimensional?

there is more then smoke, support local businesses, use as much "human powered" transportation, eat the freshest cleanest and rawest foods, stop eating meat and wearing leather(hemp prefered), grow as much ganja as possible and help as many people you can grow as much ganja as possible, start any form of meditation discipline, listen to your heart not the mind, stop consuming(buying) trivial material items, STORE YOUR ENERGY , read, stop watching television, get the internet, use water resourcefully, stop drinking and hard drugs, do a shamanistic dose of peyote, peruvian torch, dmt or mushrooms, help others with no expectations of reward, be the change you would like to see in our world, stop taking any form of pharmaceutical drugs, avoid anything artaficial from food to clothes, avoid gmo foods, dont take anything personaly, dont make any assumptions, use your word for creation not destruction and always do the best you can. these amongst other things will help the global dimensional shift occur naturally, at all costs avoid flouride, aspartame and any form of processed sugar from white to corn syrup

 

[oldbootz]

so no more using toothpaste? damn

 

[SpasticGramps]

there is more then smoke, support local businesses, use as much "human powered" transportation, eat the freshest cleanest and rawest foods, stop eating meat and wearing leather(hemp prefered), grow as much ganja as possible and help as many people you can grow as much ganja as possible, start any form of meditation discipline, listen to your heart not the mind, stop consuming(buying) trivial material items, STORE YOUR ENERGY , read, stop watching television, get the internet, use water resourcefully, stop drinking and hard drugs, do a shamanistic dose of peyote, peruvian torch, dmt or mushrooms, help others with no expectations of reward, be the change you would like to see in our world, stop taking any form of pharmaceutical drugs, avoid anything artaficial from food to clothes, avoid gmo foods, dont take anything personaly, dont make any assumptions, use your word for creation not destruction and always do the best you can. these amongst other things will help the global dimensional shift occur naturally, at all costs avoid flouride, aspartame and any form of processed sugar from white to corn syrup

I had cancer. I'm still taking pharmaceuticals. Granted I hate them, but I'll die if I don't take them. What do suggest? You must have something much better to come down with such a broad stroke statement like "stop taking any form of pharmaceutical drugs." I HATE big Pharm more than anyone, but it has its place. You sir, live in LA LA land. Remove your head from your rectum before making statements like that. They do have their place and they do save lives. Oh, I hope you "dont take anything personally."

"avoid anything artificial from food to clothes" Everything artificial. You mean EVERYTHING right. C'mon dude. Seriously.

 

[cashmunny]

Actually I think if civilization does fall it will all start with the sort of hostility between rival camps evidenced in this thread.

 

[nomaad]

I had cancer. I'm still taking pharmaceuticals. Granted I hate them, but I'll die if I don't take them. What do suggest? You must have something much better to come down with such a broad stroke statement like "stop taking any form of pharmaceutical drugs." I HATE big Pharm more than anyone, but it has its place. You sir, live in LA LA land. Remove your head from your rectum before making statements like that. They do have their place and they do save lives. Oh, I hope you "dont take anything personally."

"avoid anything artificial from food to clothes" Everything artificial. You mean EVERYTHING right. C'mon dude. Seriously.

i'm with you on this one, gramps... not that there isn't a lot of value in dmt's suggestions its just not reasonable to reject every thing that technology and science has achieved in the last few centuries because u think it will bring about a "global dimensional shift." what those suggestions (in moderation) will achieve is that, when the shit does go down, you will be better prepared for it. so I am all for it.

my 4 year old has an ear infection and I am going to get him some antibiotics. why? because absolutism of any kind is asinine.