ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Like I said...RC is nothing more than a grain of salt in comparsion to california. If you think that EVERY single one of the 489 cities in california will adopt these extreme measures you are sadly mistaken, or working to try to fear mongering the vote.

The tax RC is trying to create has to be voted in by the people of RC anyways, its not like they can just make up any ridiculous tax number and make it stick, and if they do, they will simply miss the big boat revenue ship and can sit in their economic shit hole and suffer even longer in this recession/depression.

I think even some of the more conservative cities like San Diego will have to bite the bullet and accept the inevitable as many of these tight lipped assholes see the writing on the wall and NEED this revenue sorce to pull their poor decision making asses out of the hole of which they have dug for themselfs.

To vote no on 19 because 1 out of 489 cities in california have proposed such a asinine tax only proves that you have other motives that are soiling your decision.


PS: I had to look up WHERE rancho cordova is because ive never even heard of the fucking place.... and in my opinion they can keep their stance all they like. Just looks like some piece of shit inland conservative town anyways.

 

[mrdizzle]

Born, raised, went to two different colleges, lived in upstate, central and southern NY, Live in Manhattan for 2 yrs as well. $200 dollar an ounce of beaster from the reservation in Massena, brought over the st Lawrence from Canada.

please bro, 70 percent of NY is bone dry, especially in the summer, because it’s easier to smuggle 3 metric tons of herb over a froze river in the middle of January on snowmobile then it is to boat it over in July with HLS waterskiing on your dick. IF you have anything non-beasters its $400 an ounce and you know this. NY outdoor is a joke bro, its not like it floods the gates with endless dank herb, one guys ends up with 3lbs of some ok stuff and the rest is bud rot


maybe you have a friend that sell you his indoor homegrown danks for $220, you a lucky guy

 

[mrdizzle]

its not about if every county in cali will tax like RC, its that every county in cali CAN if they want too, and Im sure there are a few terminally ill patients in RC that would disagree with you

 

[someotherguy]

...

 

[subrob]

just checkin in....cant stay on these threads too long...too many asshole morons...i would lose my mind...again....nice to moniter them though...happy to see the pro19's are still kicking ass...glad most of the anti stuff has finally been knocked down....seems people are starting to realize what the common sense route is...i see the anti's are getting weaker...the quality of thier objections is getting even lower...pretty much still the same shit they are spewing, but mostly the guys who were actually putting forth the effort to try to SOUND intelligent have switched or given up...still a few stragglers, but the pros are pretty much kickin the shit outta whatever drivel is being put forward....morals wins over money anyday...least when it isnt politicians....keep it up guys!

 

[someotherguy]

You completely missed the point I was trying to make, which is we need to pass 19 so that rec users don't need to hide under 215 to enjoy a smoke, thus helping to legitify the mmj scene in California, as well as across the nation.

here we have Big Herb re-explaining the point you missed.

why not compare them? because they are oposites, heroin and alcohol can quickly kill you, even in one sitting, if they don't kill you the enslave you in addiction.

when has cannabis ever been the cause of an over dose leading to death? never, so comparing them is plain wrong and will only add to peoples fear who are ignorant of these matters.



i didn't miss the point, i can totally get with the above statement. i'm just pointing out that you were going over the top in your quest to show the last few no's in this thread, how wrong they are. unless you really do believe that cannabis and heroin are in the same league.

sure there are conservative groups out there that hate the way Cali has made cannabis so easy to legally consume and they hate on the whole med scene. but believe you me those same fucks will vote no on prop 19 regardless if the med program was run strictly or not. the vast majority has come to see that cannabis is basically harmless and a lot of them have jumped at the chance of getting legal. while the rest have friends or family who smoke and have also realized it's no big deal.

and you again demonstrating you don't understand
what he meant.

cannabis is not a medication for pain, by calling it that you are shooting yourself in the foot. but even worse you are doing cannabis an injustice, it has so many functions and effects, it has a spiritual side, a medicinal side which hasn't even been fully comprehended yet and a recreational aspect and not to forget a huge industrial potential. in non of it's guises is it harmful or addictive. it's like comparing homeopathic with antibiotics, just patently ridiculous.

maybe you are bit confused about the larger properties of cannabis because you use it for pain.

again it's like comparing herbal tea for sleeping with valium or what ever. we shouldn't give the impression this stuff is only medicine as the whole point of 19 is for recreational and industrial use.

and again, you still don't get that he was trying
to say that California's laxity with regard to MMJ
has actually made it harder for some other states
to pass MMJ laws of their own.

the point is it is a big deal that you currently have to
sell your integrity to get 'legal'.

i for one find that intolerable, i'd rather risk arrest
than do the cowardly thing and lie and pretend to
have an ailment to get a 'doctor' to give me a
'recommendation'.

piss on that, ...and vote yes on Prop 19.

peace, SOG

my first posting addressed to you, note i don't insult you,
all i do is to state my belief that having to tarnish your
integrity to get 'legal' is no solution.

i totally agree, i wouldn't want to be on some list on the internet as a medical cannabis user, specially not if there was another way to smoke it with out fear.

the it's not a big deal comment was referring to most people knowing that cannabis use is not a big deal. you have to try get the context right when reading peoples posts.

your first posting addressed to me, ...only insulting in
it's condescending tone.

Sigh....your still not grasping it...

I wasn't comparing cannabis to oxycontin. I was making the argument that cannabis makes me feel good and so does oxycontin. Which seems to be the only arugment from the 215 people who try to justify their use, rather than accept what 215 was really for... TERMINALLY SICK AND DYING PEOPLE.

Oxycontin and vicodin or two of the worst possible substances on this earth. I have had too many friends pass away from overdoses from these wretched pills rather it was intentional or not.

The comparison I was making is that people have made up these "symptoms" to get a reccomendation to use medical cannabis. I think its a shame that people have to lie or try to justify their use of mj through some bogus ass medical system.

Now I have seen numerous cases where cannabis has been a miracle plant and TRULY help people in a serious time of need, this is not what im debating.

My debate is with the people who say ALL mj use is medical use, when it clearly is not. You may be able to justify it to yourself with these false claims and a little snicker, but your not fooling anybody.

We need to remove ALL recreational users from 215 so that it is no longer viewed as some joke to califronians and the rest of the country. The continued abuse of 215 will only further prove detrimental to other states who dream of having the legislation that we have in california. It has already done so and I feel that if 19 would have been passed the same year as 215, then we would have had many more states that would have adopted mmj laws rather than look at CA and say FUCK IT we arent going to allow legalization in my state through a false front like "medical" marijuana.

215 has done its deed in the way of removing alot of the social taboo associated with this long prohibited substance, however 2010 needs to be the year that we as a people say NO MORE. Let the truly sick and dying stay with the medical system, that way the people who truly want to help patients can do so without having to do interviews with patients to see who really qualifies to recieve free medication, rather just some kid who wants to get high without getting arrested.

We now have that chance and it sickens me to see these 215 people shoot down 19 when 19 can make 215 more legitimate. And I hear the same rhetoric over and over, "just get a recc. just get a recc." well id rather not have to pay some quack doctor $150 to get a piece of paper that says im allowed to smoke when we have a chance of legalizing marijuana for the huge majority of people in california.

VOTE YES ON 19 TO MAKE IT LEGAL FOR ALL ADULTS TO RESPONSIBLY CONSUME CANNABIS !!!

Big Herb again trying to explain the point you missed.

you seem to be turning things around, to me it's evil to make it so one has to lie to be able to smoke it legally, so i'll blame those who caused this state of affairs in the first place, not those that make the best of the situation they are in. 19 needs the med vote too, even if you hate them for being liars.



wow you really do have trouble understanding what you read don't you? if you look again maybe you will see that i was laughing at some one considering heroin and cannabis to be in the same league, i still think that would be funny if some one truly tried to make this comparison. why not make a poll and see what other think. the whole reason why 19 has to and should pass is that cannabis is a harmless substance.

no its you missing the point, you are incapable of differentiating, discussing or even understanding the finer points in this whole discussion. your answers are always simplistic aiming to win the argument at what ever the cost. i wold guess you are still young and think you know it all and there is nothing left to learn. this will never be my attitude, if that's a problem for you then that's too bad.

my opinion on this thing has evolved and if you really understood the language as well as you'd like to think you would understand my position and how it has evolved since the beginning of this discussion.

its like you have blinded yourself to all the gray areas just because you've made up your mind you are pretending that the gray areas don't even exist. well, i've said before i hope you are right.



it's ok, i have come to see you struggling with your comprehension troubles so i don't hold it against you.



apparently not old chap, that's the whole point.


yeah.....peace out

...and you going on a tear insulting me many times.

as far as i understand it the auther of 215 wrote it the way it's written to make it include as many people as possible. so in reality it wasn't passed only for the terminally ill.

do you realize that many people who you would deny the medical status to, would be using anti depressants or sleeping pills and or alcohol, if they didn't have their cannabis, to me that's still medical use.



well sure it will be great if true recreational users can get off the medical program. one of the convincing points of 19 is that it will stop people having to lie to be safe



if we had 19 or similar on the books i could comprehend that, but while it was the only option, i don't blame anyone who used it. i say again this stuff should be available legally to all and forbidding it was unnatural and evil, so in my view i don't blame anyone who made use of the medical program to enjoy their cannabis without fear of persecution, without fear of swat teams and all the rest of that crap.



again once 19 is on the books i bet most rec users will leave 215 and let their recs run out. i feel certain parts of the country wouldn't join the med cannabis scene no matter what. but yes the situation in Cali might well have put off other places.

you starting to get his point

i see what you are saying here and you make some very valid points. i really do hope this passes, for most of the reasons you and others have been listing and i think the unfair parts will get struck down soon enough as long as we get the foot in the door of legitimacy on the recreational level.

look man, i'm not really even sure what this argument is about. but i noticed that it has become an argument and a pointless one at that.

i seem to be guilty of trying to win said argument too, so i'm calling it a day. specially as we are in agreement about needing 19 passed, and that being the subject of the thread after all.

you are correct i'm most definitely not always right, i don't think i ever actually implied such a thing.

i hope that i will always be objective enough to be able to change my opinion when new facts come to my attention that show me i was wrong, or not seeing the whole picture, or what ever.

in my location it will not be legal after prop 19 passes. wish it were so, although we do have our own legalization schemes underway, which will have that much more chance of passing if Cali passes 19.

sounds like you missed my point too, as in, it was
you who insulted me, not vice versa.

an 'evolved' person would apologize for all the insults as i offered none to you.

peace, SOG

you're a mod here so you have all the power but that
doesn't make you right, YOU insulted me, not the
other way around.

if you can show me anywhere in this thread, hell,
anywhere on this site, where i've insulted you i'll
gladly apologize.

until then though, i've clearly shown how you've
insulted me and only rationalized your behaviour
without once even admitting to insulting me.

i guess i'll look elsewhere for reasoned debate.

peace, and stay safe, it ain't legal yet, SOG

 

[JJScorpio]

Born, raised, went to two different colleges, lived in upstate, central and southern NY, Live in Manhattan for 2 yrs as well. $200 dollar an ounce of beaster from the reservation in Massena, brought over the st Lawrence from Canada.

please bro, 70 percent of NY is bone dry, especially in the summer, because it’s easier to smuggle 3 metric tons of herb over a froze river in the middle of January on snowmobile then it is to boat it over in July with HLS waterskiing on your dick. IF you have anything non-beasters its $400 an ounce and you know this. NY outdoor is a joke bro, its not like it floods the gates with endless dank herb, one guys ends up with 3lbs of some ok stuff and the rest is bud rot


maybe you have a friend that sell you his indoor homegrown danks for $220, you a lucky guy

The beasters is 650 a quarter, and they can keep it all. They even kief it now before selling it if that weren't bad enough.

The Mexi brick even made it here. Thats 400 a quarter and you might better smoke cut grass.

There's a lot of people selling for between 200 and 240 for really good indoor. I see people would rather pay 50 a qt for beasters than 60 for indoor. Makes no sense to me....

As for the outdoor, I know quite a few growers with a few hundred plants in the ground. The late strains are usually hit pretty good with blight, but the early stuff comes along pretty well. This year has been great. If the fall stays dry it will be one of the biggest years NY has seen in a while. Everyone I talk to has plants larger than usual. I have a few that were over 7 foot in mid July and 5 ft across. It's been very warm, sunny with scattered rain so they are doing great here..... The problem is people are sending it South where they get more money for it. I've never seen 400 an ounce here. Maybe in the City....

 

[gaiusmarius]

@ someotherguy

i don't have a scrap more power then you in this section, just for your information, all i can do here is report a post just like anyone else.

like i said my intent was not to insult. my intent was to show you that you were arguing things that i didn't say, do or even imply. in fact you were ridiculing me by pretending a meaning to my words that was never there, implied or other wise. me pointing that out is in no way an insult. call it a clarification of some thing you either misunderstood or added your spin to.

i offered to bury the hatchet, you are the one going on and on.

this is just a discussion after all even if things get heated it's nothing personal, in fact i have managed to spend my years at ic mag without making enemies, it seems a great shame how folks are going to war recently. but even crazier is when you make war on some one who agrees with your main point.

as far as i'm concerned i'm done with this convo.


your re posting all the old stuff and totally ignoring the last post is typical of your selective way of replying.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

its not about if every county in cali will tax like RC, its that every county in cali CAN if they want too, and Im sure there are a few terminally ill patients in RC that would disagree with you

So what would be the alternative? Force these cities into the regulation we put forth?

The reason prop 19 has such a strong chance of passing is BECAUSE it gave the cities the right to do as they wish concerning cannabis, just like we have done so with alcohol. You know there still are dry counties in the united states that dont allow the sale of alcohol...?

If we were to tell the anti-mj cities YOU HAVE TO COMPLY regardless of how the people of your town feel about it...

Then 19 would have had as much chance of passing as a Rush Limbaugh trying to paddle around the world in a canoe...

Again Prop 19 has NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDICAL MARIJUANA, except that it will make 215 more legitimate by removing recreational users (and hopefully lowering the price of medicine for patients).

And I feel as if your forgetting THE MOST IMPORTANT PART of the proposal from RC is that THE PEOPLE OF RC WOULD HAVE TO VOTE IN THE HEAVY TAX..

As far as if it is legal, I believe jed pulled the language of 19 that says cities can not tax personal grows.

But im not a lawyer, im not a judge and im not a CPA. So I will leave the interpretations to the experts.

However, it seems to me that this objection with RC is but a mere grasp at straws and I feel that we will continue to see the opposers of 19 grasp at WHATEVER they can to further spit on our movement to legalize.

So why not just be real? Your not opposed to 19, your opposed to the legalization of marijuana for all responsible adults

Id have much more respect for the opposers if they would just say "My livelihood is growing cannabis and im afraid with legalization I may not have a way to support myself and my family anymore". That is a COMPLETLY LEGITIMATE POINT. But instead you hide behind these false claims and outright lies....

 

[rives]

Born, raised, went to two different colleges, lived in upstate, central and southern NY, Live in Manhattan for 2 yrs as well.

Well, this explains a lot to me about your me-first attitude. I would prefer to think that the majority of native Californians have a little better understanding of how we impact the rest of the country and the responsibilities inherent in that position. I understand and respect the position of people who are trying to feed their families, but a large number of them also can see that this prop is for the greater good.

 

[mrdizzle]

So why not just be real? Your not opposed to 19, your opposed to the legalization of marijuana for all responsible adults

Id have much more respect for the opposers if they would just say "My livelihood is growing cannabis and im afraid with legalization I may not have a way to support myself and my family anymore". That is a COMPLETLY LEGITIMATE POINT. But instead you hide behind these false claims and outright lies....

Im against turning cannabis over to big business elites, I am totally for allow small and mid sized growers to supply california with marijuana and making as much money as they can to feed their families, buy art, blow it at a bar, or pay off student loans, I do not care what they do with the money. I would rather money go to the people than the state and the pockets of few, the same few that wrote this bill with $$$ in his mind. I think prop 215 is great and I find new reason to have an budwiser of weed( please dont come back with a micro-beer argument)

THis is not a legalization bill its a 5x5 grow space bill, thats pretty much the only difference I see from current law. and I truly think it does more to illegitimize medical marijuana than stoners bucking the system. Every state will say " see, it was just a big scam to get it legalized" thats my opinion, sorry if you dont like it.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I think some of you would be better off here:

http://www.patriotsteaparty.net/

That way you can bitch about how horrible taxes are and all that crazy nonsensical bullshit.

This is not an anti tax site. This is a pro legalization site. MJ legalization will not be the catylst for the anti tax movement on ICMAG, so please move on with this bullshit scare tactic...

 

[mrdizzle]

Well, this explains a lot to me about your me-first attitude. I would prefer to think that the majority of native Californians have a little better understanding of how we impact the rest of the country and the responsibilities inherent in that position. I understand and respect the position of people who are trying to feed their families, but a large number of them also can see that this prop is for the greater good.

first off you live in jefferson so native by default

second, Feed my family vs $100 ticket for marijuana possession? there are a lot of people feeding their families, but not for much longer if this bill passes, all the extra tax revenue is going to get spent on foodstamps bro

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Im against turning cannabis over to big business elites, I am totally for allow small and mid sized growers to supply california with marijuana and making as much money as they can to feed their families, buy art, blow it at a bar, or pay off student loans, I do not care what they do with the money. I would rather money go to the people than the state and the pockets of few, the same few that wrote this bill with $$$ in his mind. I think prop 215 is great and I find new reason to have an budwiser of weed( please dont come back with a micro-beer argument)

THis is not a legalization bill its a 5x5 grow space bill, thats pretty much the only difference I see from current law. and I truly think it does more to illegitimize medical marijuana than stoners bucking the system. Every state will say " see, it was just a big scam to get it legalized" thats my opinion, sorry if you dont like it.

It's not that I "dont like it", it's that your opinion is completly flawed in every way and proves to me that you have an hidden motive for keeping people in jail for cultivating and consuming a harmless plant.

19 gives the power to the people. You dont want big biz in your town? Lobby your local represenatives, if they are in big biz's pockets, vote them out.

People have kept wal mart out of their town, so why cant you keep weedmart out of your town?

5x5 is the very minimum of which is allowed FOR ANY PERSON 21 and older. If your a patient under 215, you can continue being a patient and be completly uneffected by the passing of 19. Cities and counties can raise the 5x5 limit, but CANNOT LOWER IT.

What if your town said anyone over 21 can grow as much as they want on their property? Would you still be opposed to 19?

As to your whole "big scam" theory. Other states ALREADY view 215 as just a "big scam" to legalize marijuana. People like you have reaffirmed this view by suggesting everyone "just get a recc", rather than pass a legalization bill that would allow recreational users to smoke with out having to justify their use with a $150 piece of paper.

People will look at the passing of 19 and say "wow, I guess the PEOPLE do want marijuana legalized" and other states will have a much harder time trying to convince people that not only is medical marijuana bad, but that the people dont want MJ legalized, even though california passed it with landslide numbers.

Im putting my money on saying 19 passes with a 78-83% majority.

 

[subrob]

first off you live in jefferson so native by default

second, Feed my family vs $100 ticket for marijuana possession? there are a lot of people feeding their families, but not for much longer if this bill passes, all the extra tax revenue is going to get spent on foodstamps bro

are you talking about you not being able to make a living off canna if prop 19 passes?

 

[someotherguy]

@ someotherguy

i don't have a scrap more power then you in this section, just for your information, all i can do here is report a post just like anyone else.

like i said my intent was not to insult. my intent was to show you that you were arguing things that i didn't say, do or even imply. in fact you were ridiculing me by pretending a meaning to my words that was never there, implied or other wise. me pointing that out is in no way an insult. call it a clarification of some thing you either misunderstood or added your spin to.

i offered to bury the hatchet, you are the one going on and on.

this is just a discussion after all even if things get heated it's nothing personal, in fact i have managed to spend my years at ic mag without making enemies, it seems a great shame how folks are going to war recently. but even crazier is when you make war on some one who agrees with your main point.

as far as i'm concerned i'm done with this convo.


your re posting all the old stuff and totally ignoring the last post is typical of your selective way of replying.

you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

peace, and stay safe, SOG

 

[Guest 88950]

...I realized that all you out-of-state's think that if its legalized in cali, then if you ever get caught growing in say NY, you can use a defense that "its legal in california, so I shouldnt get in trouble"...

you dont know what the "out of staters" think b/c you probably didnt read the whole thread.

all prop19 does for me is give me more ammunition to combat the propoganda regarding Cannabis.

i can argue that since Cannabis is safe enough for legalization then its safe enough to use as medicine.

its easy to tell US to get out of cali's business and do something in our own state but you guys refuse to acknowledge the fact that what Cali does affects the thinking and perception towards Cannabis of those NOT living in Cali.

if you dont want to hear the opinions of those not residing in Cali the go post in your state forum and quit whining..

 

[JJScorpio]

What if your town said anyone over 21 can grow as much as they want on their property? Would you still be opposed to 19?

I think you know the answer to that one. This has absolutely nothing to do with a 5 by 5 area. This has to do with people putting money in their pocket. Tax free money to boot. It's part of the "me" generation. If everyone could grow as much as they wanted they'd be worse off than they are now. Can't say I'd mind putting an extra 50 thousand or so tax free south, but I couldn't do it knowing it was keeping small growers from smoking and growing their own, along with putting the ones in prison that get caught with a lousy half dozen plants.

Oh I forgot, it's already legal. As long as you don't mind lying and selling out to the Govt and having your name registered. Stupid me...

At least KrunchBubble is a man about it and admits why he wants it to stay illegal. These other ones spew all these excuses that make no sense when the truth is they want to keep that tax free money coming in while everyone else pays all the taxes for the priviliges they enjoy..... Life sucks. Adapt.

 

[subrob]

it is amazing to see some of the posts over the last month or so...in addition to dispensary owners hiding behind annonymous characters, i think there must be a SEVERE age diff in the anti and the pro sides....those are the ONLY two explanations for some of the attitudes we are seeing in the community....well, theres always inbreeding and flat out stupidity...but i like to assume the best of cannabis users....

 

[localhero]

from what im hearing rob, alot of dispensary owners are pro 19. they can trade in their fake dr shmocks for those fake dreadlock beanies