How to break the stereotypes and finally be taken seriously as a movement?

[DiscoBiscuit]

well said, sac

 

[El Toker]

Lol. Insulting those who do campaign for cannabis legalization because you're too lazy to do it? Its obvious that you're just trying to make excuses for your own lack of desire to really give a shit. That's cool. Just don't blame it on others who believe its possible and look for ways to make it happen.
.

Thanks for the long reply. I got bored and skipped all the rhetoric.

This bit jumped out at me, and made it clear that you weren't responding to my post, you were responding to some fantasy post that whipped you up into a frenzy.

If you can't be bothered reading what you're replying to, I can't be arsed either.

 

[baan]

A lot of damage is done within the community itself, because many people think that their way of cannabis is the only way. There are different ways of going about it and everybody understands that, but looking down on others is destructive and not productive. Yet we do this anyway.

I agree that there would be a better chance of legalization if paraders wore suits and whatnot, but the thing is is that this is no offence stoned fairytale. People will parade with their hair in all colors and mangy dreads. If you are concerned about this then organize a parade with polo shirts and suits. I know that job security is an issue, but looking down at other stoners won't help us any - if you disagree with what they're doing, the only thing that will help you is showing that there are stoners who quite frankly are successful, normal looking people.

The issue is that there is no set social norm for dress in America anymore. You can't say that something (relevant to this issue) somebody does is wrong, simply because you don't think it is right. Politeness is the key, because a polite hippy will leave a better impression than an asshole in a suit. However, people will be people, and some might look down at the hippy anyways just because they disagree with his outfits and styles. But the problem lies at its core: how do you convince people that they should accept a guy smoking a doob in his living room?

Well, in America, you have to show that weed smokers are just like everybody else, and capable of functioning in their daily lives. For example a hunter might say "this makes people stupid, and I feel that I risk my life while hunting because somebody will be stoned and stupid." Therefore responsible woodsmen and hunters could change this opinion, and make the holdouts promoting anti-pot look like jerks. The same goes for businessmen: "you can't sell contracts or products looking like an unreputable druggy, you'll loose all my money! You'll be stoned and not able to figure out what you're doing!" Well, the businessmen with respect and successful records would be able to prove that assumption wrong. It's the job, and reputation, security that has this thing by the balls. The turning point will come when the masses don't favor the anti-pot more.

Bringing me back to my colorful hair and hippy reasoning, I don't think that them expressing their opinion is necessarily a bad thing; however, they appeal to the audience that already accepts what they are trying to say. Therefore I think that we need dudes in suits and other professions to come out of the woodwork and begin to change the way that people view stoners.

 

[Easygrowing]

My view on that is-remember-we have all differents law and so on.
But-we-you has to understand-why those, persons there is against MJ-what argument they have..and "then" you-we have got that..it,s our task.for convince those people,s argument for, why they has those task-argument for say NO...

And i know already those "fight" is loosed,and not because-im a looser without no balls..

there is 2 or 3 kind of people,there is using MJ..and one of them,are using those MJ to getting "things" out or instead of MJ...and it,s not good for any community...And mabye we are many,there is only wanna grow and smoke and doing this in peace..
BUT you has to remember-there is still some people-there is using those to getting otheres things instead of MJ...and it,s just a short reason,i can give...and it destroyed it,for many people...sorry for oldschool english and mabye,it sounds-like an "givenupalready" reason...

But it,s a good tread,and tried to give my view on that...

Take care all and good Christmas.

 

[sac beh]

Thanks for the long reply. I got bored and skipped all the rhetoric.

This bit jumped out at me, and made it clear that you weren't responding to my post, you were responding to some fantasy post that whipped you up into a frenzy.

If you can't be bothered reading what you're replying to, I can't be arsed either.

I read what you said many times before replying. When I realized that you actually were insulting those who campaign, unlike you and the "sane" smokers who believe legalization will never happen or don't even want it to, and that you had a deceptive view of recreational vs. medical users, I thought it was appropriate to point that out.

Its fine if you can't think of anything to reply to me on topic and would rather skip reading what I said than face up to the challenge to your views. But don't accuse me of not reading your post.

PS. Just read your post again, and my response seems appropriate.

 

[El Toker]

Its fine if you can't think of anything to reply to me on topic and would rather skip reading what I said than face up to the challenge to your views. But don't accuse me of not reading your post.

If you want to challenge any of my views then go ahead. But if you want me to respond then I suggest you read what I've actually said and credit me with meaning what I say.

The alternative is to trade insults or try scoring points but that's a really boring game that I have no interest in playing.

 

[sac beh]

If you want to challenge any of my views then go ahead. But if you want me to respond then I suggest you read what I've actually said and credit me with meaning what I say.

I already did.

Those who want to slip recreational use under the legal radar by abusing a medical system are not helping. It damages the credibility of genuine medical users and reflects badly on all pot users.

I disagreed with your view of recreational vs. medical users, because how current MMJ programs are setup, the division between the two groups is dishonest. And I disagreed with your view that recreational users supposedly abusing the medical system hurts cannabis advocacy and damages credibility. I don't agree that credibility = respecting the minutiae of MMJ laws which often attempt to limit use to as few conditions and illnesses as possible--not because the science supports this, but because its the correct political decision in order to prevent as many people as possible from having legal access.

I believe filling the MMJ registries with as many people as possible would actually be beneficial to the overall cause of legalization. And I certainly believe that many more people than are currently allowed by approved MMJ conditions should be allowed according to the medical research of cannabis' overall benign character.

The mental leap that the majority have to make to accept the legalisation of cannabis is exactly the same one that they have to make to see an end to drug prohibition across the board. As far as I can tell in the UK and across the rest of the Western world we are a very long way away from this happening.

I strongly disagreed that cannabis legalization is just as difficult as the legalization of all drugs. That's absurd. No other drugs have legal medical programs like those for cannabis.

Campaigning at the moment is a risk that I'm not prepared to take and neither are all the sane stoners that I know. To be honest I think that's what the overwhelming majority of users think. This just leaves centre stage for nieve adolescents, arts students and of course the batshit crazy army of plant worshippers who are guaranteed to turn any pro-cannabis event into the kind of freak show that makes people want to keep cannabis illegal.

And I disagree with the idea that "sane" stoners don't campaign for legalization, and that those who do are how you've described them, namely in an insulting way.

And, in response to the OP question, I find your very divisive attitude harmful to the effort of cannabis legalization being taken seriously. The reason I began posting here is because you were making very divisive and unhelpful critiques of HempKat's view of the benefits of cannabis, which seems contrary to the whole point here.

 

[El Toker]

A lot of damage is done within the community itself, because many people think that their way of cannabis is the only way. There are different ways of going about it and everybody understands that, but looking down on others is destructive and not productive. Yet we do this anyway.

To be honest I don't think that cannabis users are any worse in that respect than any other part of life. I don't think that it can be called a community. I think that most users of cannabis see it as a small aspect of their rounded lives. I don't restrict my social life to tokers my wife has never smoked she prefers alcohol. I feel some affinity for other growers on the basis of a shared hobby but that's a long way from feeling part of a community.

I agree that there would be a better chance of legalization if paraders wore suits and whatnot, but the thing is is that this is no offence stoned fairytale.

If you look back you'll see that those of us who simply aren't up for campaigning still wouldn't go out marching even if everyone was dressed in a top hat and tails. It carries a risk with no chance of success at the moment anywhere in the Western world.

I know that job security is an issue, but looking down at other stoners won't help us any - if you disagree with what they're doing, the only thing that will help you is showing that there are stoners who quite frankly are successful, normal looking people.

The problem isn't me looking down on them. Yes I do think very negative things about white people with dreadlocks, tree huggers, truffers, plant worshippers and the whole bucket load of psuedo scientific bullshit that seems be part and parcel of people whose full time occupation is being stoned. But that's not the problem because I'm already completely against prohibition.

The problem is that pretty much the rest of the world tends to share broadly the same opinion. Most of them are also convinced that cannabis makes people like that. Then whenever the media covers "the cannabis community" they point the cameras at the freak show and their worse fears are confirmed.

The issue is that there is no set social norm for dress in America anymore.

I'm in the UK dude, try to be a bit more inclusive.

You can't say that something (relevant to this issue) somebody does is wrong, simply because you don't think it is right.

There's a huge body of literature on the nature of morality. I favour the perspective that we all create our own definitions of right and wrong etc. suffice it to say, simply because I think that something is right is what makes it right for me.

Politeness is the key, because a polite hippy will leave a better impression than an asshole in a suit.

Absolutely, but the asshole in the suit is much more likely to be able to engage people in a conversation. Can we drop the suit thing? Most people would see someone wearing a business suit to a protest march as a strong indicator of mental illness. I think key is to present as a relatively normal person, a functional member of society.

But the problem lies at its core: how do you convince people that they should accept a guy smoking a doob in his living room?

That's a more interesting question. In the UK I've noticed that there is a lot of tolerance for cannabis smokers. In most work places even the people who don't use cannabis probably have a good idea of who does. Everyone has been to parties or been with groups of friends has at least been around it. Recently our politicians from all three main parties were tripping over each other to confess to the press that they had used cannabis as kids.

The push on this is definitely coming from the right wing media. There's a continuous drip drip drip of misinformation and for the last twenty years the whole "reefer madness" has been rehashed and resold to us. Some people put it down to a conspiracy, I put it down to the fact that there's a very large minority of dim people who just get off on that stuff. It sells papers.

Well, in America........

...

the businessmen with respect and successful records would be able to prove that assumption wrong.

I agree with you there. The fact is that anyone who stays stoned all the time and doesn't have a serious illness will probably in most ways live up to the negative stereotype. But the vast majority of cannabis users use it sensibly like the vast majority of drinkers.

Bringing me back to my colorful hair and hippy reasoning, I don't think that them expressing their opinion is necessarily a bad thing;

If someone wants to stick half a tonne of metalwork in their face and tattoo a cannabis leaf on their forehead, I have no problem with that. As long as they understand that they don't represent me or any of the vast majority of cannabis users.

Therefore I think that we need dudes in suits and other professions to come out of the woodwork and begin to change the way that people view stoners.

I agree, at the moment we're getting a lot of very senior dudes in suits speaking up for cannabis and against prohibition generally. Senior politicians, police, scientists, medics and celebrities have all been stepping up over the last couple of years. They've mostly been slapped down and savaged by the right wing press, but they are managing to chip away at the bullshit slowly. The issue is being debated in the mainstream press. Protest marches by crusties don't help things at all.

 

[HempKat]

If this were any other thread, I might agree with you in criticizing a view that depends on (what seems like) an intelligent design view. But this is a thread about how to resolve disparate personal views into an agreement about cannabis advocacy.

So I'm inclined to give HempKat a more charitable interpretation in this case, and not get hung up on whether or not he believes in something spiritual or intelligent design. It doesn't matter. The facts of the matter you've both acknowledged:

That by design or evolution, we have an endocannabinoid system which plays a role in our biochemistry. And whether by design or evolution we have a plant that acts on this cannabinoid system in such a beautiful way so as to have profound beneficial uses in regulating human biochemistry.

Why not just drop the debate over whether it was "designed" this way or whether its just a happy coincidence (again, given the topic of the thread)?

Let me make it clear that I'm not saying it's intelligent design. I'm saying it's evolution. When I say our bodies are designed to work with marijuana I don't mean some being planned us out this way, I'm talking about functionality. Other drugs affect us by binding to receptors meant for things other then the drug. For example LSD binds primarily to serotonin receptors. Cannabis on the other hand binds to cannabinoid receptors which are meant to bind to cannabinoids.

I did leave it open for people to substitute evolution with God but that's because I recognize that some people believe in God and would be more comfortable thinking of it in "Godly" terms.

 

[sac beh]

Let me make it clear that I'm not saying it's intelligent design.

I personally didn't think you were, but it seemed clear that El Toker did, and that he didn't want to agree with you on the important points because you left it open to an interpretation involving the spiritual.

 

[crazybear]

I really think that it would be best if the people that smoke or do edibles or whatever can get it through the heads of the medical field that for some of us cannabis is better to treat our conditions than pills!
I for one know that cannabis helps me deal with nerve pain/nerve damage better than toxic substances!
I think that people that get a medical card & are just using the system to recreationally use it is going to F**K it up for people that really need it!
Just like all the people that got oxycontin F**KED it up for patients that truly needed it, some places you can't get it prescribed to you even if you really need it!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I think that people that get a medical card & are just using the system to recreationally use it is going to F**K it up for people that really need it!
Just like all the people that got oxycontin F**KED it up for patients that truly needed it, some places you can't get it prescribed to you even if you really need it!

Maybe us recreational users could instead start using all the toxic substances you mention, leaving medical users un-F**KED?

Stereotypes?

 

[HempKat]

I personally didn't think you were, but it seemed clear that El Toker did, and that he didn't want to agree with you on the important points because you left it open to an interpretation involving the spiritual.

Well the clarification was as much for him or anyone else for that matter, as it was for you. I do agree though that the potentially spiritual aspect in my words was what he reacted to. I figure he's like alot of people who have become so disillusioned with religion that anything that even hints at religion makes them bristle.

Personally I don't get that reaction even though I recognize it and understand it to some extent. It's just a matter of a person's personal opinion. So what if a person wants to believe there is some God like being that we never get to see, touch or interact directly with, other then in our minds. One can't really see evolution either, not in real time anyway, nor can you touch it or interact with it directly, other then as a concept in our minds. So what's the difference? My life doesn't change because someone else chooses to believe in God just as their life doesn't change because I choose to believe in evolution.

 

[HempKat]

Maybe us recreational users could instead start using all the toxic substances you mention, leaving medical users un-F**KED?

Stereotypes?

Well maybe just the ones that abuse the medical marijuana system because it lets them buy from a legitimate source where you're not likely to get busted. Those of us who respect that the medical marijuana system is for real patients with real needs and rather then try to scam that system, grow our own or still risk buying it on the street, should just stick with the all natural non toxic marijuana.

Yeah it may be a stereotype but stereotypes are usually based on real people and unfortunately those who scam the medical marijuana system for recreational use, do fit the stereotype.

 

[trichrider]

criminals VS them...know what side i'm advocating...even though i been stereotyped...

 

[crazybear]

Maybe us recreational users could instead start using all the toxic substances you mention, leaving medical users Un-F**KED?

Stereotypes?

Look man I DON'T have a problem with people using pot recreationally , I'm saying people put themselves out there to fight for the right of people that use cannabis for medical reasons & now people are making it look bad that there are people that are absolutely no reason other than to get around the cannabis laws! In my mind that is wrong, because then people that make laws & in force it point to that as a reason to take back the right for medical use! If people are going to use the medical card just to get high at least be a good actor or actress !!!!!!!
I really think cannabis should be legal! Go ahead use all the toxic substances you want! I don't really want any more of that shit! But try & get oxycontin in some places if you really need it & because of assholes using it as hillbilly heroin people that really need it can't get the same thing that will happen if people abuse the laws & can't even F**KING ACT LIKE THEY NEED IT! I know it's not just good for pain but the spirit & mind! But the politicians are just looking for ammunition to take those rights away! Work towards getting it legalized if you can't act to get your meds!

 

[crazybear]

criminals VS them...know what side i'm advocating...even though i been stereotyped...

I'm not trying to sterotype people I'm just pointing out that it was hard enough to get medical cannabis without people F**KING it up for the people that need it for whatever reason! I don't live in a med state so your not stepping on my toes & I could care F**KING less what you do but maybe people could at least act like they need it instead of just looking like a bunch of people that are F**KING over the system!
Been down the road with DRS. & trying to deal with pain & you can't get meds because of people F**KING it up for everybody & I don't mean cannabis!

So by all means F**K it up for people that really need it instead of voting for legalization! I'll be here facing five years or more for growing a F**KING plant! Enjoy!

 

[crazybear]

I guess you guys had to get off the internet to go smoke some good bud that you got with a med card! While I can't get anything in a non-med state!!!!!!! Enjoy!

 

[SpasticGramps]

I agree that there would be a better chance of legalization if paraders wore suits and whatnot, but the thing is is that this is no offence stoned fairytale.

No one was saying people should go to a protest and march in suits lol. I was implying if you want to be a serious special interest group in the sea of special interest groups in Washington you need suits and money.

The issue is that there is no set social norm for dress in America anymore.

I don't know what field you work in, but this is wrong. In the business world there are social norms for work and play. As stupid as you may think they are, these are the people we need to vote YES on legalization so understanding their point of view and life is pretty important IMO.

Politeness is the key, because a polite hippy will leave a better impression than an asshole in a suit.

Eh..... Hippies are polite and suits are assholes? I don't know about all that.

Therefore I think that we need dudes in suits and other professions to come out of the woodwork and begin to change the way that people view stoners.

That's whole point. I believe, as most probably do on this site, that weed is weed and there shouldn't be any difference in "medicinal" or "recreational". That's a bunch of bullshit. But in mainstream America the media presents it as being different. So in the minds of most of the lemmings there is a difference. And when you poll them they support legalizing for medicinal by a great majority, but not so much for "recreational" use.

Once "medicinal" is passed nationally it's just a matter of time before it's completely legalized. And that's how it's being done right now anyway. State by state.

The biggest thing is for all these legal states to start dumping money on Washington and even more importantly the other non-legal state legislatures. The US is just as corrupt as Nigeria. If you want something done here you have to pay to play.

 

[RicoT]

I guess you guys had to get off the internet to go smoke some good bud that you got with a med card! While I can't get anything in a non-med state!!!!!!! Enjoy!

I'm seriously my ass off ..........