How to break the stereotypes and finally be taken seriously as a movement?

[divided]

Breaking the stereotype will never happen.

Thanks Cheech & Chong, thanks all modern day pot movies, thanks to "normal" people who are too scared and self concious to be seen with a "hippy," thanks to 20 somethings fucking up the medical scene, thanks to growers willing to jail their peers than lose a little money (19), thanks to a lot of things.

It's always the "not me" attitude. Who's going to start it? Not me. Who's going to lead? Not me. Who's going to campaign? Not me. Who's going to try and educate people? Not me

We made our bed, so lets lay in it you dirty greasy stinky hippies.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Breaking the stereotype will never happen.

Civil Rights laws went a long way toward societal tolerance. There are still those who lead a segregated lifestyle but it's personal choice as opposed to institutional. IMO, MJ laws would also go a long way to force society to accept even when they personally choose not to partake in MJ.

But I also feel like it's a third rail politically. So in that regard, it won't happen overnight. Maybe when we're convalescents we can puff one legally.

Thanks Cheech & Chong, thanks all modern day pot movies,

agreed - but it says loads for the masses that allow themselves to reject such a valuable resource.

thanks to "normal" people who are too scared and self concious to be seen with a "hippy,"

I've got to get out more. Wasn't aware shit like this happens.

thanks to 20 somethings fucking up the medical scene,

This is the one I'm curious about. How does an illegitimate card (apparently from a legitimate doctor) fuck up the medical scene? Just asking...

Does it make med users appear less legit? Does the neighbor's "suspect" back ache keep the legit med user from medicating? If no, overall acceptance of legit mmj patients will happen with more users, not less. We'll always have elements that give any controlled substance and themselves a bad image. Why would pot be any different?

Does the suspect card jeopardize all med users with future laws banning their right to medicate? Potential neo intolerance laws might be directed at mmj as a whole.

thanks to growers willing to jail their peers than lose a little money (19), thanks to a lot of things.

I'm not sure anti-19 growers want incarceration. We all play the same game and run the same, relative risk. At least to a degree. I wouldn't personally be against anyone for exercising their right to vote. For what it's worth, if I lived in Cali I would have voted yes.

It's always the "not me" attitude. Who's going to start it? Not me. Who's going to lead? Not me. Who's going to campaign? Not me. Who's going to try and educate people? Not me

I agree we need more participation and a fast track strategy. Unfortunately I primarily work and provide. I can participate as a contributor but don't have time and resources to lead. Like any illegal grower, I regret even the thoughts of getting busted. But I've also seen decades of pro lobbying and pro public service messages. I guess I'm a little too realistic for folks that want to press the issue harder.

We made our bed, so lets lay in it you dirty greasy stinky hippies.

IMO, government and religion made the bed. Law abiding (white) folks got home from church and drank their cocktails and popped their little yellow pills while minorities (and poor whites) were busted puffing. Decades of this gets mom & pop, the Jones and half the neighborhood against something they might not understand.

Some stoners give pot a bad name but IMO, we're a pretty benign group as a whole.

 

[baan]

agreed - but it says loads for the masses that allow themselves to reject such a valuable resource.

I've got to get out more. Wasn't aware shit like this happens.

Some stoners give pot a bad name but IMO, we're a pretty benign group as a whole.

The campaigns nowadays focus on the young people, basically saying 'stay away from these people or you will live in a cardboard box'. They twist everything up to portray it as bad, because everybody knows you won't keel over dead or insane from a joint. It's misinformation and scare tactics, and it's targeted at the middle school and high school level. To the degree of teachers singling out students when they aren't in school and rienforcing their negative qualities while associating cannabis ('drugs') with these people. Didn't hear this first hand, but I didn't have any reason to know this either, and no reason to doubt it.

No one was saying people should go to a protest and march in suits lol. I was implying if you want to be a serious special interest group in the sea of special interest groups in Washington you need suits and money.

Ok understood.

I don't know what field you work in, but this is wrong. In the business world there are social norms for work and play. As stupid as you may think they are, these are the people we need to vote YES on legalization so understanding their point of view and life is pretty important IMO.

I fully agree on all points, although I had made an oversight and should clarify - some fields will not require standard dress, and others will but will not reach into personal life dress standards. Especially among younger generations, dress standards vary wildly, with what some people consider fancy would only make the trash pile of others.

Eh..... Hippies are polite and suits are assholes? I don't know about all that.

That wasn't how I intended that to read... I meant to say that a dreadlock hipster who was polite to people would leave a better impression than a clean-shaven guy in a suit who was a complete jerk. And vice versa. I can't make a generalization like that without appearing, well,

That's whole point. I believe, as most probably do on this site, that weed is weed and there shouldn't be any difference in "medicinal" or "recreational". That's a bunch of bullshit. But in mainstream America the media presents it as being different. So in the minds of most of the lemmings there is a difference. And when you poll them they support legalizing for medicinal by a great majority, but not so much for "recreational" use.

Once "medicinal" is passed nationally it's just a matter of time before it's completely legalized. And that's how it's being done right now anyway. State by state.

The biggest thing is for all these legal states to start dumping money on Washington and even more importantly the other non-legal state legislatures. The US is just as corrupt as Nigeria. If you want something done here you have to pay to play

 

[divided]

Civil Rights laws went a long way toward societal tolerance. There are still those who lead a segregated lifestyle but it's personal choice as opposed to institutional. IMO, MJ laws would also go a long way to force society to accept even when they personally choose not to partake in MJ.

To give one point to the "movement," I agree with your last sentence and I think what you're talking about there is happening already with the MMJ laws. My cynicism can not stop me from seeing this as a good thing.

But before that, from a federal/top down view it is still an institutional policy to look down your nose at the "stoners." Even though we've had all the MMJ states pop up within the last 14 years or so, we've still got DARE class and all that BS giving the institutional view. IE, one of the health officials in the UK got fired for giving an alternate POV, it's written into the US Drug Czar's job description, that sort of thing. The social view, as well as, the institutional view is what we're talking about changing.... if it's possible, and how we can. We can't ignore the institution's ability to shape the social view.

agreed - but it says loads for the masses that allow themselves to reject such a valuable resource.

This is perfect, thank you for mentioning this because I think this is the biggest issue and one I didn't elaborate on in my first post.

I don't think they "allowed" themselves as much as they were told to, via the institutional machine... and no one has stepped in, and proclaimed loudly, that what the institution is saying is some half truth, manipulated BULLSHIT... and said it in the right way. We don't need to appeal to stoners. Stoners are stoners because they already see the usefulness in cannabis. We need to appeal to the rest of the culture that we excluded when we became the "counter-culture."

We just can't just exclude them anymore. We have to understand that they have been lied to and they believed it. We have to quit faulting them for that and look at them as potential allies. We have to appeal to their sense of truth and justice. That's pretty fucking American if you ask me, though a lot of politicians wouldn't agree with it <--- to the politicians, not you my disco lovin brother

I've got to get out more. Wasn't aware shit like this happens.

You don't have to go anywhere, it's happening in this thread!! We've got the "professional" stoners who are snubbing the "expessive" stoners, and refuse to be seen with them or take up a common cause because they just can't have that "freak show" taint their image.

People don't even know what the feck the word "community" means, that it can be as simple as having the same goal... like cannabis being legal.

We can't even agree that we ARE a community. We share a common interest in weed, its usefulness, and I'd imagine; the desire to see the herb be freed. People in this very topic, instead of starting where we agree and work from there, are belittling each other for differing opinions... on something as simple as hairstyle to the fact that we are hardwired as creatures of this Earth to have cannabinoids in our system!!

We've got weed smokers debunking the weed smokers about smoking weed! It's MADNESS.

For people who desperately want the world not even to adopt our way of thinking but just to be tolerant of it, we can't even be tolerant of each other!

We're fucking doomed with this kind of division.

This is the one I'm curious about. How does an illegitimate card (apparently from a legitimate doctor) fuck up the medical scene? Just asking...

I was only alluding to the sect of medical card holders that hold it solely to make money. Mostly immature and greedy brats who look at MMJ not as an opportunity to provide medicine but a get rich quick scheme.

The "ballers" getting their "hustle" "on."

Even in documentaries they find these young pups doing just that, and the put them on the air talking about it all being a business business business that's all it is business business business... that is fecking RUINING us when it comes to the squares.

A square isn't going to look at that kid talking about MONEY and say "what a good little boy, I see it now, he's providing MEDICINE!" .. what they are actually thinking is "SEE! I fucking knew it, damn stoners are just trying to make dealing legal!!!!"

And when it comes down to it, these are the same kids who can't tell you a god damn thing about the plant itself, its history, how we got here, how it got here, and why it IS so powerful... but they can tell you EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO KNOW about how to get the most for your "bow."

THAT... is what I mean by the 20 somethings fucking up the medical scene.

I mean fuck, we've all got I eat, I understand this... but the ability for some of these kids to see something outside of themselves would be beneficial for the movement ... and for their betterment as human beings for that matter.

Where you said if we had "more" MMJ card holders it would be better for the movement and create acceptance... NO it most definitely will not, not if they're 22 year olds with their cap backwards and their pants sagging.

Think of a 50+ year old square who actually HAS back problems, or their body DOES ache, the people who actually HAVE been through some shit... do they look at this little boy and think "YES, by god, he needs medicine!" YEAH RIGHT.

And what's worse...THAT IS OUR VOTING CLASS! Those are the people who actually do get off their asses, as old and dusty as they are, to go vote. Their opinion is the one that matters... and that's a large portion of my argument. We don't appeal to the people who matter, and we never will with that kind of shit.

We need all the little kids to stop signing "fuck the police" and "dollar dollar bills ya'll." I mean shit, sing it in your house if you want to while you're counting your money but they need to seriously learn how to use their inner "Clark Kent" if you know what I mean.

I'm not sure anti-19 growers want incarceration. We all play the same game and run the same, relative risk. At least to a degree. I wouldn't personally be against anyone for exercising their right to vote. For what it's worth, if I lived in Cali I would have voted yes.

That's exactly what they voted for, incarceration. And no offense to you, but I don't subscribe to the idea that this has anything to do with their right to vote.

I don't think anyone is against letting people vote, but I'm sure as fuck against giant egos, insecurities, lack of skills to procure money besides turning on the power switch to an automated hydroponic system, and dollar signs blinding them from the rest of the world. Like these people gave a FUCK about anything political before their money was on the line.

Every MMJ cardholder in it for the wrong reasons and their mother turned into a Political Science major as soon as they thought they were going lose their chance at getting rich.

Think they realllly give a shit about the political process and getting active? PFFFTTT! No, they don't.

I am all for participation, but this is also another point of "seeing something outside of yourself." These people that couldn't give two fucks about the rest of the world, the future, or anything else but themselves and their interests...

I agree we need more participation and a fast track strategy. Unfortunately I primarily work and provide. I can participate as a contributor but don't have time and resources to lead. Like any illegal grower, I regret even the thoughts of getting busted. But I've also seen decades of pro lobbying and pro public service messages. I guess I'm a little too realistic for folks that want to press the issue harder.

You started off well and then end with the defeatist attitude. No offense man, I appreciate the discourse and what not... but this defines "not me" attitude.

Instead of figuring out what we can do, we are talking about what we can't do and why we can't do it.

(I know I am doing exactly what I'm riled up against but if no one says it then no one is going to notice that this is a fucking problem.)

You know why people bought into Obama's "YES WE CAN!" bullshit? Because at it's core, that is the only way to change things. It resonates true in people because there is an ultimate truth in that. When you make up your mind to do something, you fucking DO IT. As an aside, people bought it because they thought he meant it... my analogy ends there, let's just say that lol

But imagine if we, as a movement, meant it??

IMO, government and religion made the bed. Law abiding (white) folks got home from church and drank their cocktails and popped their little yellow pills while minorities (and poor whites) were busted puffing. Decades of this gets mom & pop, the Jones and half the neighborhood against something they might not understand.

Some stoners give pot a bad name but IMO, we're a pretty benign group as a whole.

I think both groups are responsible, and we suffer from the same complacency and disinterest that the "squares" do/did.

It's like we collectively can't be bothered to have a part in a better future.

"Why have a better future when we can have a mediocre right now?" <---- too many people, stoners and not, believe this.

We haven't changed it, so we must deal with the consequences until we do.

We are indeed a benign bunch, but to make it worse we are a DIVIDED bunch as well....

 

[gingerale]

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