How to break the stereotypes and finally be taken seriously as a movement?

[El Toker]

No I don't think that because I don't think gold fish have cannabinoid recptors. You're the one trying to make that case. I'm just playing along with your little fairytale what if's and saying that if in fact goldfish have cannabinoid receptors then they too were created by evolution or God (whichever you believe in) to use marijuana.

I know what you're saying. I'm not sure that you grasp what I'm saying.

If you want to believe in a supernatural being and psychic powers and magic fine. That ends all debate because you just can't argue with blind faith and wishful thinking

However, what you're saying about evolution makes absolutely no sense at all. That simply isn't how evolution works.

 

[crazybear]

I can't understand people that say that they are religious & god made everything & that it was put on this earth for our use & then don't want people to use cannabis for medicine or any other reason just another sign of being total hypocrites!

I believe in evolution & mother nature & try & treat people with respect!

 

[HempKat]

sorry but that's stoned fantasy without a shred of evidence or logic to back it up.

There's plenty of evidence, even the same wikipedia page that told you cannabinoid receptors exist in mammals birds and fish back that up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Of course, I've seen lots of nature documentaries showing goldfish jumping out of ponds and flipping themselves slowly toward the nearest growth of Marijuana.

Goldfish manufacture endocanabinoids, they don't have to puff. It's a stretch to suggest humans and cannabis didn't evolve to commingle because goldfish don't jump.

 

[El Toker]

No I don't think that because I don't think gold fish have cannabinoid recptors.

In that case I give up . I pointed you toward the relevant wikipedia page

Here's a link to the specific paragraph in case you are struggling to understand what you're reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid#Cannabinoid_receptors

goodnight.

 

[HempKat]

I know what you're saying. I'm not sure that you grasp what I'm saying.

If you want to believe in a supernatural being and psychic powers and magic fine. That ends all debate because you just can't argue with blind faith and wishful thinking

However, what you're saying about evolution makes absolutely no sense at all. That simply isn't how evolution works.

Try rereading what I said because in one post I clearly state that personally I don't believe in God at least not in the traditional sense. I believe there is a natural force out there that people call God but I don't believe this force has any consciousness or specific plan for us.

You on the other hand seem to have an irrational fear or dislike for anything that even hints at God. Well sorry but the vast majority of the world thinks differently then you. Since I'm more concerned with expressing my opinion to the vast majority rather then getting it across to one individual who wants to split hairs over terminology. I referenced God, get over it.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

In other words, humans didn't just partake to weed because it treats a condition or causes euphoria. Whether they recognized or not, the direct similarity to our physiological process is what makes mj so attractive, IMO.

 

[HempKat]

In that case I give up . I pointed you toward the relevant wikipedia page

Here's a link to the specific paragraph in case you are struggling to understand what you're reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid#Cannabinoid_receptors

goodnight.

Yeah same page I linked to moron, now show me where it says goldfish have cannabinoid recptors.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Cannabinoid receptors

Before the 1980s, it was often speculated that cannabinoids produced their physiological and behavioral effects via nonspecific interaction with cell membranes, instead of interacting with specific membrane-bound receptors. The discovery of the first cannabinoid receptors in the 1980s helped to resolve this debate. These receptors are common in animals, and have been found in mammals, birds, fish, and reptiles. At present, there are two known types of cannabinoid receptors, termed CB1 and CB2, with mounting evidence of more.[3] In recent study it has been found that humans have these receptors as well.

 

[HempKat]

In other words, humans didn't just partake to weed because it treats a condition or causes euphoria. Whether they recognized or not, the direct similarity to our physiological process is what makes mj so attractive, IMO.

Well now that's not true necessarily. What motivated the humans to partake may in fact have been euphoria or that it treats something. Wether they were or weren't attracted to it for those reasons though, marijuana is still something our bodies are designed to interact with specifically.

 

[HempKat]

Cannabinoid receptors

Before the 1980s, it was often speculated that cannabinoids produced their physiological and behavioral effects via nonspecific interaction with cell membranes, instead of interacting with specific membrane-bound receptors. The discovery of the first cannabinoid receptors in the 1980s helped to resolve this debate. These receptors are common in animals, and have been found in mammals, birds, fish, and reptiles. At present, there are two known types of cannabinoid receptors, termed CB1 and CB2, with mounting evidence of more.[3] In recent study it has been found that humans have these receptors as well.

Yeah I saw that but it doesn't say Gold Fish or all fish. it just says that cannabinoid receptors have been found in mammals, birds, fish and reptiles.

 

[sac beh]

I know what you're saying. I'm not sure that you grasp what I'm saying.

If you want to believe in a supernatural being and psychic powers and magic fine. That ends all debate because you just can't argue with blind faith and wishful thinking

However, what you're saying about evolution makes absolutely no sense at all. That simply isn't how evolution works.

If this were any other thread, I might agree with you in criticizing a view that depends on (what seems like) an intelligent design view. But this is a thread about how to resolve disparate personal views into an agreement about cannabis advocacy.

So I'm inclined to give HempKat a more charitable interpretation in this case, and not get hung up on whether or not he believes in something spiritual or intelligent design. It doesn't matter. The facts of the matter you've both acknowledged:

That by design or evolution, we have an endocannabinoid system which plays a role in our biochemistry. And whether by design or evolution we have a plant that acts on this cannabinoid system in such a beautiful way so as to have profound beneficial uses in regulating human biochemistry.

Why not just drop the debate over whether it was "designed" this way or whether its just a happy coincidence (again, given the topic of the thread)?

 

[sac beh]

Mother Nature designed the human endocannabinoid system for use with the cannabinoids of cannabis.

OR

Due to a series of evolutionary selections and gene developments, humans have an endocannabinoid system and cannabis has phytocannabinoids which effect the the former's system in useful ways.

If we drop the question of how these results came about, we can conclude that the two interpretations agree in spirit, and we can find creative ways to combine our perspectives into a more powerful community position on cannabis advocacy. Because in the end, HempKat's view doesn't differ from the scientific view on the practical points that are important to us, namely the effect that phytocannabinoids can have on the endocannabinoid system.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Well now that's not true necessarily. What motivated the humans to partake may in fact have been euphoria or that it treats something. Wether they were or weren't attracted to it for those reasons though, marijuana is still something our bodies are designed to interact with specifically.

You're right... should have added and etc.

 

[johnipedestran]

SuperSizeMe said it best on page one.

The reality is that many of us are "professionals". Meaning we have a straight life that has little or no crossover into our growing/smoking life. Because of the geographic location of our residence or because of our chosen work we need to maintain a level of separation and secrecy regarding what we do for fun. Most long term growers will have a very small set of close friends that know what they do. Expanding the awareness to parties outside that cirlce is inviting disaster.

peace
jip

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Yeah I saw that but it doesn't say Gold Fish or all fish. it just says that cannabinoid receptors have been found in mammals, birds, fish and reptiles.

Another good point... These receptors are common in animals doesn't specify goldfish.

 

[trichrider]

a nationwide co-op? statewide? unions...?

doesn't seem to be but a dozen or so peeps willing to forego the backbiting baloney over personal choices.
professionals who won't out themselves, others being called 'crazies' over medical use, even some categorized by choice of attire; all have one thing in common...we choose to use or grow an illicit substance...making us all criminals.
I don't enjoy this sign hanging 'round my neck. I do not wish to be arrested or even tossed for using marijuana in whatever form, this treatment is a form of slavery.
until most of us can agree to disagree it will just be headbanging.

 

[crazybear]

SuperSizeMe said it best on page one.

The reality is that many of us are "professionals". Meaning we have a straight life that has little or no crossover into our growing/smoking life. Because of the geographic location of our residence or because of our chosen work we need to maintain a level of separation and secrecy regarding what we do for fun. Most long term growers will have a very small set of close friends that know what they do. Expanding the awareness to parties outside that cirlce is inviting disaster.

peace
jip

This plus as is shown by so many that want to argue about one thing or another instead of coming up with solutions as to how to get us taken seriously!

 

[El Toker]

There are two very distinct issues on the legalisation of cannabis. I'm sure that the majority of people do support it being available to individuals with a serious illness who would benefit from it.
Then there's the issue of allowing it for recreational use which unfortunately does not have the same kind of public support.

Those who want to slip recreational use under the legal radar by abusing a medical system are not helping. It damages the credibility of genuine medical users and reflects badly on all pot users.

The mental leap that the majority have to make to accept the legalisation of cannabis is exactly the same one that they have to make to see an end to drug prohibition across the board. As far as I can tell in the UK and across the rest of the Western world we are a very long way away from this happening.

Campaigning at the moment is a risk that I'm not prepared to take and neither are all the sane stoners that I know. To be honest I think that's what the overwhelming majority of users think. This just leaves centre stage for nieve adolescents, arts students and of course the batshit crazy army of plant worshippers who are guaranteed to turn any pro-cannabis event into the kind of freak show that makes people want to keep cannabis illegal.

 

[sac beh]

There are two very distinct issues on the legalisation of cannabis. I'm sure that the majority of people do support it being available to individuals with a serious illness who would benefit from it.
Then there's the issue of allowing it for recreational use which unfortunately does not have the same kind of public support.

Those who want to slip recreational use under the legal radar by abusing a medical system are not helping. It damages the credibility of genuine medical users and reflects badly on all pot users.

What damages the credibility of medical cannabis use and the ability of all pot users to use it are 1) the prohibition laws in general, 2) states' MMJ laws which create scientifically dishonest definitions of "medical" vs. "recreational" use, along with definitions of allowed conditions and illness which severely underestimate marijuana's benign character. It is not the fault of supposed "recreational" users abusing the "medical" system. After all, it is up to a person and his/her doctor to decide what is medically acceptable for him/her, not up to you or the state (although both believe it is their job).

The ethical fault for prohibition laws and restrictive medical programs doesn't belong to users, recreational or medical. If you believe that a war, for example, that your government is participating in is unethical, and you decide to protest that war by opting out of taxes or other behavior that contribute to your government's participation, I'm not going to blame you for the war simply because you are damaging the government by abusing the tax system.

The mental leap that the majority have to make to accept the legalisation of cannabis is exactly the same one that they have to make to see an end to drug prohibition across the board. As far as I can tell in the UK and across the rest of the Western world we are a very long way away from this happening.

Its obviously not the same mental leap. You must view the majority of people as complete idiots incapable of being educated about the obvious differences between cannabis and other drugs. Others here might agree with this view I guess, but I find the majority of people very open to hearing the case for cannabis, regardless of their political views. Plus, that view is completely impractical, because it is highly unlikely that we will see the complete end of drug prohibition. But there is a great chance of ending prohibition of cannabis in many areas!

Campaigning at the moment is a risk that I'm not prepared to take and neither are all the sane stoners that I know. To be honest I think that's what the overwhelming majority of users think. This just leaves centre stage for nieve adolescents, arts students and of course the batshit crazy army of plant worshippers who are guaranteed to turn any pro-cannabis event into the kind of freak show that makes people want to keep cannabis illegal.

Lol. Insulting those who do campaign for cannabis legalization because you're too lazy to do it? Its obvious that you're just trying to make excuses for your own lack of desire to really give a shit. That's cool. Just don't blame it on others who believe its possible and look for ways to make it happen.

It sounds from your posts that you really don't care if cannabis prohibition continues or not, and you're ironically bitter towards those who are benefiting from MMJ programs. So just step aside, then. Others will do it for you.