Gas is gonna go through the roof.....

[Blueshark]

Value 'in kind' is created..

Value 'in kind' is created..

that money is "created" as that oil get's pumped. So, not only are we printing money...we're also pumping money out of the ground. Over $7 billion EVERY DAY is being created out of thin air and is eventually burned...

You suck a barrel of oil from the ground and it's suddenly "worth" $91. This "money" didn't exist before...it was created...

Correct to a point... You could say that about quite a few things.
Oil Minerals (gold/silver/copper...etc.) water natural gas
phosphorous gravel & sand..... I could go on and on.

All of these things come out of the ground, so potential 'wealth' is created. The reason this wealth is 'value in kind' is because it could not have come out of the ground without first SPENDING money to recover these things.
Equipment and exploration costs must be coupled with labor to see any wealth that is created. The real problem becomes apparent when the Empty Suits take their huge cut before the little guy ever gets a paycheck.
Bankers, lawyers, politicians and ceo's/cfo's and the like do not create anything, yet they get the biggest cut FIRST. They do not 'create' anything.
The old prospector with a mule and a gold pan created pure wealth as it was he and he alone that WORKED hard to gain his reward.
That is the problem with Big Corporate America... To much control over the little guy--you and me.
While they do spend a lot of money to recover these things and 'create' wealth, it is not fairly distributed throughout the food chain

Too many people not working 'in kind' for what they get paid.
While I agree that the people at the top should get more than the little guy, do not starve him/her as you will kill off all of the 'worker bees and ants'.... Then how do they think they will get that fat-ass bonus??

 

[ibjamming]

Correct to a point... You could say that about quite a few things.
Oil Minerals (gold/silver/copper...etc.) water natural gas
phosphorous gravel & sand..... I could go on and on.

All of these things come out of the ground, so potential 'wealth' is created. The reason this wealth is 'value in kind' is because it could not have come out of the ground without first SPENDING money to recover these things.
Equipment and exploration costs must be coupled with labor to see any wealth that is created. The real problem becomes apparent when the Empty Suits take their huge cut before the little guy ever gets a paycheck.
Bankers, lawyers, politicians and ceo's/cfo's and the like do not create anything, yet they get the biggest cut FIRST. They do not 'create' anything.
The old prospector with a mule and a gold pan created pure wealth as it was he and he alone that WORKED hard to gain his reward.
That is the problem with Big Corporate America... To much control over the little guy--you and me.
While they do spend a lot of money to recover these things and 'create' wealth, it is not fairly distributed throughout the food chain

Too many people not working 'in kind' for what they get paid.
While I agree that the people at the top should get more than the little guy, do not starve him/her as you will kill off all of the 'worker bees and ants'.... Then how do they think they will get that fat-ass bonus??

But oil is different...because we use such HUGE amounts DAILY. $8 billion EACH and EVERY day. That's a lot of wealth being created. And oil is MUCH simpler and more efficient. If that prospector had an oil well...once it is dug the first time...it's "free" money. Whereas the prospector has to KEEP digging, keep panning, for more gold. It's the equivalent to digging a water well...once it's dug, the work is done, the more water you get, the "cheaper" the well cost and the more profit. Oil many times did gush...like the gushers in movies...that's a lot of money begging to come out! Oil is also...priceless...we need it...period. We can't live without it. It's AS important as water and air to a modern society.

$8 billion of "wealth" is created daily...and once the oil is used, it adds to inflation because the money created...is still out there...even after the oil is gone. It was GENIUS of the US to take control of oil and have it priced and paid in dollars. We've been inflating at better than $5 billion a day for a long long time...now the Federal Reserve doubles that inflation through the QE programs. That sure helps to control the federal debt...which is part of the point of doing it. Add fractional reserve banking and it's a wonder we're not roaring in inflation all the time...oops...actually we ARE...food and fuel...have been and keep going up. Only "junk" is cheaper.

But yes, I agree...we've got too much dead weight...at the top AND the bottom.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

^ Tahoe is a sweeet ride, I love them, Im too much of a cheap fucker to fuel up a vehicle that large.

i know man just picked it up last month...fucking love it. id much rather get bad MPG and drive the tahoe over my japanese commuter cars.

whats the point of driving a 30mpg sardine can civic if some drunk bitch crashes into you with an f150 pickup!! all that saving for MPGs goes right out the window when your head turns into an exploded watermelon.

my tahoe is a tank....feel much more at peace on the crazy freeways out here. plus its got pushbutton 4wd and fully decked out..leather, heated seats, bose sound system...i wanna live in it!

were in the same boat IL, yeah they are nice but 12 miles to the gallon is "ouch".....good thing for the backup(s)

yea for long trips break out the 30mpg car...but 12 aint to bad. i actually average around 14.5 according to the onboard computer...on the freeway the tahoe gets around 18mpg, its that city driving that kills the average...but yeah everytime i drive from SF bay to tahoe or up north it usually costs around 50-60 bucks each 200-220 miles..

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

But oil is different...because we use such HUGE amounts DAILY. $8 billion EACH and EVERY day.

Sorry.

According to government agencies that track energy imports, the U.S. spent $246 billion in 2007 for all imported crude oil; a majority came from friendly nations, including neighboring Canada and Mexico. An additional $82 billion was spent on imported refined petroleum products such as gasoline, diesel and fuel oil.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2008-10-16-1133425675_x.htm

246 + 82 / 365 = a little under 900 million daily. Where did you get 8 billion?

$8 billion of "wealth" is created daily...and once the oil is used, it adds to inflation because the money created...is still out there...even after the oil is gone.

For the last 20 years, inflation has remained in check at less than 4%. The Bush years saw less than 3% for almost 6 years. 80s inflation was better than 5.5% and the 70s better than 7%.
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation/DecadeInflation.asp

It was GENIUS of the US to take control of oil and have it priced and paid in dollars. We've been inflating at better than $5 billion a day for a long long time...

900 mil in 2007. That number fluctuates with the overall economy. When gas goes up, motorists curb driving. Overall sales go down. I'd say you've been referencing the wrong figures for a long time. Where do you get your figures?

now the Federal Reserve doubles that inflation through the QE programs. That sure helps to control the federal debt...which is part of the point of doing it. Add fractional reserve banking and it's a wonder we're not roaring in inflation all the time...oops...actually we ARE...food and fuel...have been and keep going up. Only "junk" is cheaper.

But yes, I agree...we've got too much dead weight...at the top AND the bottom.

"For a couple of reasons we should also examine how America's corporations are faring tax-wise. Firstly, one of the things we hear is how it would help the economy and help businesses if we reduce their tax burden. Second, since complaints from some Conservatives seem to be are that the poor in America "live on welfare" and represent a drain on society, it is instructive to examine how much welfare America's big corporations get.

Our findings are that:

Corporate taxes in the United States are essentially near multi-decade lows.

Corporate welfare is astonishing high and represents ~3 times the welfare for poor individuals."

http://www.eriposte.com/economy/tax/corporate_welfare.htm







Let's get a little balance before we assume welfare and taxes are equal opportunity devices.
​

 

[Linenoise]

Sorry that's just not true. OPEC switched to the Euro a couple of years ago. That is not to say that the dollar does not still influence the price but oil prices are based on the Euro.

Wrong, wrong, wrong !!

Ah! I am wrong. Parts of OPEC (Iran, Venezuela, and pre-war Iraq..big suprise there, eh?) are using the EURO but it is still officially based on the dollar.

I'm getting old and sometimes get things mixed up.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

It has been speculated that Cheney's secret energy meetings dealt with the fear that Sadam would go euro. Oh yeah, that and the fact the (then) second largest pool of easily accessible oil had been discovered in Iraq.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

cool. all we need to do is deplete the oil reserves and we can end the war in iraq!!!

im doing my part... ford f-250 + lincon continental




im going to get some stickers that say: support our troops, buy a gas guzzler

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

did I hear an "exactly"

hate to admit but Iraq will throw us out before we leave on our own

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

did I hear an "exactly"

hate to admit but Iraq will throw us out before we leave on our own

thats what they said about germany

 

[Blueshark]

IBJammin', Ok, I see you working. Since most of the work is done, a well would become more profitable over time. Oh, and Quantitative Easing? Please don't get me started on what I think of that. Monetizing the debt my be an easy solution to DC's problem, but it screws me and you.
The dollar is a defacto share of the US. Like a stock, if it splits, the value goes down accordingly. 2 for 1 and your dollar is now worth 50 cents. Stuff will cost me and you more...INFLATION.
And yes, the things that are going up, that we cannot live without (gas and a few other things) are NOT counted in the cost of living. Its all bullshit. All I know is my check is NOT bigger than 4 years ago when I got my last raise, but now I can't do what I could 4 years ago. Regardless, inflation IS here. Good points my friend....

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Sorry that's just not true. OPEC switched to the Euro a couple of years ago. That is not to say that the dollar does not still influence the price but oil prices are based on the Euro.

Wrong, wrong, wrong !!

On November 6th of 2000 Iraq became the first country to receive all of its oil export payments in euros instead of American dollars.
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/opec_iraq_euro.htm

“All of the crude exported is still priced in dollars yet Iran is now forced into accepting different currencies,” PFC Energy Dubai-based analyst Thaddeus Malesa said in a phone interview
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-07-22/iran-may-shun-dollar-euro-for-oil-payments-vp-says.html

Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez is directing a growing share of the country's oil profits into euros as the dollar and crude prices fall.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&refer=news&sid=affCa25VtRhU

.

It's only a matter of time until OPEC trades in euros. If the dollar keeps falling it'll be permanent. More industry and/or nations may go the way of of the euro afterward.

 

[Blueshark]

Disco, I'm curious why they would switch to a system that is on the verge of failure? Greece and Ireland have been bailed out by the IMF. Spain, Portugal and Belgium not far behind? I wouldn't use that currency.
Perhaps the currency of the hottest economy on the planet?
Just hypothisizing......

 

[robbiedublu]

Disco, I'm curious why they would switch to a system that is on the verge of failure? Greece and Ireland have been bailed out by the IMF. Spain, Portugal and Belgium not far behind? I wouldn't use that currency.
Perhaps the currency of the hottest economy on the planet?
Just hypothisizing......

They're not going to switch to the euro. Perhaps a basket of different curriencies.
If they were smart ( and they weren't afraid of the US invading or bombing them) they'd accept precious metals only.

 

[Blueshark]

Yeh, I don't think they will switch currencies either, but precious metals are in shorter supply than oil...certainly that will not happen. Maybe a percentage though.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Blueshark, I only read. Half of it's over my head and the other part passes between my ears... uh, eyes whatever. I've seen threats of OPEC/euro bs for years. Maybe I inferred it's imminent, I only meant if and when the euro outperforms the dollar as a trading unit. Obviously that isn't hypothetical anymore. If and when OPEC decides, it's speculation on my part. And I know what they say about opinions.

You're right, I'm sure OPEC takes the European economy into account.

 

[Blueshark]

You know, there are times when I even wonder why I care to pay attention about things that go on in the world. Its not like I have the power to really do anything about it on a worldly scale.
However, when many voices come together, it is like a chorus and CANNOT be ignored. Just by virtue of the fact that all of us are discussing this and many other points on this forum gives me hope for the future. I am certain that things we post about are talked about with others in our OWN personal lives and it mushrooms from there.
I am very appreciative of the interaction between us all on these forums...because it means we CARE about the world around us.
We may not always agree (the Founding Fathers didn't) on the course of action to take, but when we are talking about it, ideas come forth that may end with a great solution previously hidden from view.
Thanks to all of you for sharing ideas....remember, WE are the answer. If we fail to care, then all is truely lost.

Be safe this New Year...

 

[zenoonez]

You know, there are times when I even wonder why I care to pay attention about things that go on in the world. Its not like I have the power to really do anything about it on a worldly scale.
However, when many voices come together, it is like a chorus and CANNOT be ignored. Just by virtue of the fact that all of us are discussing this and many other points on this forum gives me hope for the future. I am certain that things we post about are talked about with others in our OWN personal lives and it mushrooms from there.
I am very appreciative of the interaction between us all on these forums...because it means we CARE about the world around us.
We may not always agree (the Founding Fathers didn't) on the course of action to take, but when we are talking about it, ideas come forth that may end with a great solution previously hidden from view.
Thanks to all of you for sharing ideas....remember, WE are the answer. If we fail to care, then all is truely lost.

Be safe this New Year...

Now if only our politicians could do this instead of playing partisan politics.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

What would gas prices be like if the US didn't subsidize Big Oil?

http://priceofoil.org/

 

[BrainSellz]

What would gas prices be like if the US didn't subsidize Big Oil?

http://priceofoil.org/

^that was the first thing i seen when i hit that link....
i havent read it yet but something tells me...it cannot be good.....

 

[Blueshark]

Disco, You're right. Big Gov't. shouldn't subsidize anything. Oil, banks, insurance/investment co's and car manufacturing.... No business using MY tax dollar for their own ends. All of these have plenty of markup on their goods/services and if they mismanage their way to bankruptcy, so be it. Maybe the next one won't make the same mistakes. If they know that there is no REAL consequence for there stupidity, why should they change?