Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[slowandeasy]

This thread lasted over 100 pages with no problems and now all of a sudden it's gone to hell.

Anyone that wants to sit and be abusive can move along. There's no reason for namecalling....

Thank you sir! This thread was peaceful, and now we have to defend ourselves from the wolves because we dare to be different. Almost all of the posts on here before the haters came in were 100% positive and informative. Nothing like being attack for different methods being used.

 

[JWP]

I would LOVE to have to come back here and admit I was wrong after someone demonstrates it. So far it has not been demonstrated in any manner which could be considered remotely scientific.

Please show me a side by side grow of decent sized plants, where the only variable is defoliation, and that the defol plant outperforms in a statistically significant manner.

Please.

I'll gladly admit to anyone that it works, as soon as there is actual evidence that it works.


"looks like more" and "I seen someone have good results" are not actual evidence.

I agree 100% .. just show me some sort of evidence.

This thread lasted over 100 pages with no problems and now all of a sudden it's gone to hell.

Anyone that wants to sit and be abusive can move along. There's no reason for namecalling....

The only reason i'm here asking for evidence is for 1 reason;

1. This thread is a sticky in the Hydro section? Hydro is about increasing yield & its been claimed this technique also increased yield.

The difference is Hydro is proven, defoliation is not..

A thread that has a missleading title and is an unproven technique as a sticky on ICMAG detracts from our credibility as the number one source of information on cannabis since overgrow.

I would much rather be looking at the rest of the site right now, but i feel its my duty as do many others to be posting here trying to defend ICMAG's reputation with words of reason not insults.

In the last couple of days its grown 15 pages! Is that not a good thing? yummydud eat your heart out =)

 

[Throwgar]

I took a varient of this technique that it working well for me. I cut any fan teaf with visible petiole that also covers a growth tip. I start this 2 weeks into veg, after there is considerable overlap of leaves. I have run the control, and I am in the process of running the prementioned technique on my current batch. All other variables held strictly. I'll post results.

 

[Japanfreakier]

A thread that has a missleading title and is an unproven technique as a sticky on ICMAG detracts from our credibility as the number one source of information on cannabis since overgrow.

Maybe the mods remember the threads from OG or other sites.

 

[phrike]

Maybe the mods remember the threads from OG or other sites.

I read this whole thread recently. All 100+ pages.

IMO there are many posts in this thread that indicate the technique is pretty much proven. Over 90% of those who have reported indicate they had success. A few claim to have had issues.

Yeah, it's "hearsay" and "anecdotal", but any volunteer who wishes is welcome to set up scientifically rigorous tests with different strains, defoliation techniques, indoor/outdoor etc.

AFAIAC, the general improvements in yield, and other factors, such as mold susceptibility, are and have been for some time, established as part of ICMag lore.

No, I don't want to find and link to all the posts; feel free to read this thread (in particular the earlier pages) yourselves.

 

[Japanfreakier]

I'd think the pics here are more than enough myself but apparently they want more.

 

[!!!]

Having pics of plants without showing a side by sides proving that the defoliated plant yielded more is basically useless. That is not proof of anything except that a defoliated plant can grow

Yes but this is a generally illegal hobby. Nobody has resources to conduct truly scientific experiments for the sake of the community. People present their own anecdotes and experiences and if you're interested, you can try different things to see what works for you.

Sure, I may defoliate and have excellent results, but I don't care if you defoliate or not, and I'm not going to waste time doing a side by side just to appease you. k33ftr33z didn't HAVE to post this thread at all did he? He certainly doesn't force people to defoliate or even read his thread. He's only sharing his own experience.

If you care about improving your own grows, perhaps just worry about trying different things to see what works for you instead of relying on others to do the hard work for you. Even side by side pics won't be enough proof and I sure as hell doubt anyone will write up a real scientific analysis and lab report of their experience.

 

[JWP]

Some of the best threads on the site are side by sides!

205w LED vs 400w HID Let the battle begin!

Air cooled reflector testing with Digital footcandle meter

Between Sun and Moon HPS/LED comparison grow.

and many many more...

i really dont care about defoliation.

I do care that it appears ICMAG is endorsing this technique by making it a sticky without any scientific evidence to support it..

 

[Massproducer]

Dude you really should read what I wrote, you fucking idiot... I came here attacking no one at all... I actually stated that this proves that you can grow a nice plant and get a nice harvest but surely does not prove that it increases yields as some have stated in the thread... Trust me I do not want YOU to show me shit, because I have 120 posts on this site don't get shit twisted, I have been growing for 10+ years and have a massive thread on another thread showing my growing method and system.

I simply said that ONLY a side by side grow will actually prove if this is actually improving yields. If I presented something to the community and someone asked for some type of proof to substantiate my claims, I surely wouldn't attack that person...

Relying on others hard work... Do me a favor and do a google on search massproducers coco buckets, then take your head outta your ass...

When you attack do not be surprized when you get attacked in return, because I said nothing negative regarding defoliation and surely nothing at all about you.

 

[buddin_904]

I do care that it appears ICMAG is endorsing this technique by making it a sticky without any scientific evidence to support it..

thats what you truly care about...your a fucking weirdo man....LOL...... get a life? thats an understatement....basically stray away from this fucking thread because your not adding ANYTHING towards it!

 

[buddin_904]

Yes but this is a generally illegal hobby. Nobody has resources to conduct truly scientific experiments for the sake of the community. People present their own anecdotes and experiences and if you're interested, you can try different things to see what works for you.

Sure, I may defoliate and have excellent results, but I don't care if you defoliate or not, and I'm not going to waste time doing a side by side just to appease you. k33ftr33z didn't HAVE to post this thread at all did he? He certainly doesn't force people to defoliate or even read his thread. He's only sharing his own experience.

If you care about improving your own grows, perhaps just worry about trying different things to see what works for you instead of relying on others to do the hard work for you. Even side by side pics won't be enough proof and I sure as hell doubt anyone will write up a real scientific analysis and lab report of their experience.

this is a man i can agree with everything he has to say.....

 

[Massproducer]

And just so everyone knows I am not even against defoliation, I am just trying to get as much information as possible... I usually lollipop my plants and screen them so I have a vested interest in this, but because I run my flowering room propetually it is hard to really do much experimenting in any type of objective way... I think the topic is rather interesting weather I choose to defoliate or lollipop... but it is sure not worth arguing

 

[buddin_904]

^ do both big guy....you wont regret it!

 

[bs0]

Once more for the record.
I'm not saying it won't work in some situations.

I'm saying there are some situations where it would be useful, and some situations where other techniques would accomplish the same ultimate goals better.

I'm saying it is a bonsai technique.

The thing is that it *is* simply a technique. There are always many ways to accomplish the same goal.

Like anything else in growing or life, it's all about moderation. I use this 'technique' to fantastic success. You have to get a feel of it with each plant for the extent, and I'm not going to tell anyone that fully stripping a flowering plant of all it's leaves mid-flower is going to be tremendous. It is amazing what the plants can take though. How I roll with this is simply ensuring that light can get to the lower branches. This generally involves removing any fan leaf, and by fan leaf I mean leaves with more than an inch of stalk.

It is possible to achieve the same goals in a different fashion. Scrog is a good comparison because it isolates the buds and ensures all budsites are in premium light. You can LST to do similar things as well. Shit, SOG is a different application of the same concept when it comes down to it.

My yields have skyrocketed with the use of this method with some particular strains. Other strains haven't responded as well, especially low-stretch varietys. Of my plants currently, the sour d. is the most responsive to the technique. I think its success is due to its manageable stretch. Another plant, white shark (peacemaker?) really doesn't seem to achieve the same results. With the lower stretch plant it seems like you have to remove so many leaves to expose the lower sites that the plants performance can be decreased by stunting in size or paused/delayed flowering. The performance is really pretty strongly related to the strain. The other benefit of this method though is that it seems to accelerate flowering. Thats opportunity cost savings there. That is the part that I think makes side by side hard.

Honestly I won't do a side by side because I know that the untrained plant will be vastly inferior to the one that I tinker with. Not trying to lose out on that much harvest.

So I guess I don't really have much of a point outside of pretty much agreeing that it is just simply one more way of training a plant. Each different strain will respond to each training method differently. LST, topping, defol, scrog, sog, etc... IMO the best way to get amazing yields is to grow big fucking plants. Additionally to that though, I use all these concepts in conjunction to varying degrees on the different strains I grow. Defol is an amazing tool. Amazing. It seems counterintuitive, but it really does work when used properly. Plus trimming takes a little less time too.

Been smokin and drinkin, I apologize if this seems convoluted.

 

[Japanfreakier]

I would like to request that one of the growers who has better yields compared to their past harvests using this technique switch back to your old style and get a worse yield...for the sake of science.

 

[JWP]

I would like to request that one of the growers who has better yields compared to their past harvests using this technique switch back to your old style and get a worse yield...for the sake of science.

for the sake of science please explain how you know you have better yields?

 

[foliohattu]

for the sake of science please explain how you know you have better yields?

ummm... i have grown with method (a) for a while. before defoliating my yields were (b). now when i started to defoliate my garden yields(c). i'm not exactly sure how is it difficult to infer from this (b) to (c) relation which yields better? once again, if i yielded less before defoliating with same system, same strains & lights how is that not atleast some kind of proof that my yields got better when defoliating..? what kind of proof would satisfy you? not that i nor anyone else here is in this topic to satisfy you..

i myself am most grateful to k33f and all others that contributed to this thread since it has been of great benefit for me. not only yield but bud quality also has skyrocketed since starting this method. from my old bb-setup i got roughly 50% more from defoliated plant than non-defoliated sista next to it. i've had consistetly about 150g per plant, that last defoliated plant yielded about 200g's. didn't do any side-by-side comparison, just because i have other things to do in my life than convincing ppl on the web what works for me. well, the comparison was there, and i saw the results and am pretty convinced that this is the way to go for me.

like it has been said many times in these 100 or so pages, experience speaks much louder than education. i've had all the proof i need for promoting this method and so would you if you'd use energy that you spend now bitching for testing if this method works for you. then you wouldn't have to go about demanding proof, you'd know for yourself. i think that's called empirical evidence. and that's whole different case than someone doing side-by-side for you here..

i'm here learning to better my setup and gain knowledge, i test stuff out that i see others benefiting from and if it works for me i adopt it to my setup and then i have that much better setup. if i'd be here about bitching and arguing just for sake of it that would be whole another situation and perhaps demanding proof after 100+ pages of it would sound as a beneficial thing to do. i go for empirical evidence and experience.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Having pics of plants without showing a side by sides proving that the defoliated plant yielded more is basically useless. That is not proof of anything except that a defoliated plant can grow and yield well, but surely does not come close to proving that defoliated plants increase yield... The burden of proof lies on the party that made the claim not the detractors, especially being that SCIENCE is on the side of the detractors. The question is not if their will be ill effects but if it will actually increase yields, which no one has even attempted to prove in this entire thread. It was definiately an amusing thread with all of the mud that has been slung.

I for one am anxiously awaiting some type of actual objective evidence.

Very true. I am also eager for evidence that this adapted bonsai technique increases yield by a statistically significant amount.

 

[staff11]

I would like to request that one of the growers who has better yields compared to their past harvests using this technique switch back to your old style and get a worse yield...for the sake of science.

Why dont you do it? You talk a real big though....

 

[staff11]

What are you smoking? Experiments are designed to prove something, weather it be positive or negative. How and why would any scientist be offended by experimentation? Obviously I have an open mind, unlike most people. All the naysayers are the ones who have their blinders on.


I have done the same plants in the same set up 6 times in a row now. I have one variable, defoliating. Everything else is the same. I know what my plants Normally yield. I have no preconceived outcome.

You yourself say the plant stops growing leaves in flower to direct energy to buds. So how much good are they really doing? They are real good shaders! And again, this is like 12x...I will post my results in a few days once final weight is in.

Looking forward to it! One issue, where are the plants and weights of non-defoiled to copare it to? That's all people are asking, and NO ONE has provided.